Ive got an Atlas 40cw with QSI and my NCE refuses to talk to it. I understand that the programing track may not give enough power as its sound equipped but i keep getting 'cannot read CV' on the main too. It works fine apart from this.
Any idea's guys please?
Gary UK wrote: Ive got an Atlas 40cw with QSI and my NCE refuses to talk to it. I understand that the programing track may not give enough power as its sound equipped but i keep getting 'cannot read CV' on the main too. It works fine apart from this.Any idea's guys please?
Most DCC systems can not read back CV values on the main; this is one reason for using the program track. (Check your DCC manual)
Program on the main should work OK though.
My QSI equipped loco's are sound and give a voice value for CV's by programming a particular CV with the number of the CV that is in question. This is explained in the manual that came with the loco's.
I bought the Power Pax programming traack booster which lets me read CV's on QSI loco's on the programming track (it stays connected to the programming track for all decoders).
Which NCE system do you have? Some of them possibly don't have enough power output to program QSI sound decoders without a booster.
I use the NCE ProCab 5 Amp system and have no problems with programming.
cacole wrote: Which NCE system do you have? Some of them possibly don't have enough power output to program QSI sound decoders without a booster.I use the NCE ProCab 5 Amp system and have no problems with programming.
Thanks Alan.
Cacole, same system as yours, has no problem programing anything else including a Tower55 AC4400 with sound.
Gary
I had a problem with this (I use a Lenz 100 Set), and also resolved it by purchasing the power booster from Tony's train Exchange.
Brian
This is just a wild guess, but perhaps Atlas locked the decoder. I don't have the QSI documentation here to reference at the moment, but some some decoders, such as those made by Train Control Systems (TCS) can be locked to prevent any changes. Unlocking them is just a matter of programming a value of 0 (or 1) into CV15. If CV15 = 7, the decoder is locked.
EDIT: I just looked through the QSI Technical Reference for Version 3 decoders and could find no reference to CV15 or CV16 being used. QSI says those two CVs are "Reserved by the NMRA for Future Use."
With the NCE ProCab 5 Amp system you should be able to program any brand of decoder.
cacole wrote: This is just a wild guess, but perhaps Atlas locked the decoder. I don't have the QSI documentation here to reference at the moment, but some some decoders, such as those made by Train Control Systems (TCS) can be locked to prevent any changes. Unlocking them is just a matter of programming a value of 0 (or 1) into CV15. If CV15 = 7, the decoder is locked.
Thanks bud, il check that out too.
Gary UK wrote:Those Power Pax things look like the answer to the problem!
Gary, you did not say what type of address that you were trying to use. Short addresses should work fine. Long addresses sometimes cause problems if the sound is turned on while programming.
Did you try a short address?
Another possibility: Don't forget to go through the steps outlined on pages 1 and 2 of the Power Pro System Reference Manual and skip over the Short Address step to get to the Long Address.
Also read through pages 52 and 53 on Entering the Decoder (Locomotive) Address and Enable Long or Short Address. These steps set CV29 to recognize whether you want a Long or Short Address. Sometimes this has to be done with a QSI decoder even though the steps on pages 1 and 2 supposedly tell the decoder whether you want a Short or Long address.
This is one instance where redundancy of programming is sometimes necessary, and is not unique to the NCE ProCab system. I've had to go through the same procedures with the EasyDCC System and QSI decoders.
Gary,
Assuming you are programming on the main, and the address of the loco in question is still set to '3', do the following:
Toggle through the Program button until you reach "Program on Main"
Select "CV" and enter "62" for the CV to program.
Enter "0" for the value and hit enter. You have now turned off the vocal feedback of the CV values.
Escape back out to the normal operating screen and go back into "Program on Main", select "Address" and choose either the "Long" or "Short" address option. Enter your desired address, hit enter and you're done! Go back to main screen, the new address should now show as the selected loco and you're good to go.
For some reason, the NCE system doesn't like the vocal feedback from the QSI chip. The NCE system tries to send the second data packet to the chip before the chip finishes announcing the CV value, so the chip doesn't receive the second data packet.
I hope this helps,
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Don Z wrote:>>>> snip <<<< For some reason, the NCE system doesn't like the vocal feedback from the QSI chip. The NCE system tries to send the second data packet to the chip before the chip finishes announcing the CV value, so the chip doesn't receive the second data packet.I hope this helps,Don Z.
>>>> snip <<<<
Small correction -- it isn't the NCE system, it's the QSI chip. When you have "verbal feedback" enabled (CV 62 set to 1), the little dude inside confirms any changes by saying "CV xxx value yyy". That's great in most cases, but as QSI documents (in slightly more technical terms), while the guy is talking, he ain't listening.
To change a long address, you actually change CV 17 and CV 18. And if you're switching from a short address to a long address, or vice-versa, you're also changing CV29. The NCE system nicely figures this all out and sends two or three changes in succession. But if the little dude is confirming the first change, he ignores the other(s). That's why you need to set CV 62 to zero.
This is true with any DCC system that changes more than one CV at a time, and may also give you fits if you use DecoderPro to change more than one CV at a time.
Dont confuse the Long address with the Digitrax, my DT400 will accept a Ad4= ? Input and the next prompt will change the two additional CV's for me. I prefer the single addresses.
I dont know about NCE, but all of my QSI programs when I start issuing CV's, once in a while they refuse to listen and require a Reset involving three CV's
STOP RIGHT THERE! And yes, I meant to shout.
If you program on the main, remember that you are programming ALL of your locomotives that are on the tracks and receiving the commands. You will set ALL of the addresses unless you remove all the other engines, or put them on dead sidings, etc.
That's why some DCC systems (like Lenz) won't even let you program an engine address on the main. If you look deep in the manual for the QSI chip, you'll find how to set an address even if that function is disabled for your DCC system.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley wrote: STOP RIGHT THERE! And yes, I meant to shout.If you program on the main, remember that you are programming ALL of your locomotives that are on the tracks and receiving the commands. You will set ALL of the addresses unless you remove all the other engines, or put them on dead sidings, etc.That's why some DCC systems (like Lenz) won't even let you program an engine address on the main. If you look deep in the manual for the QSI chip, you'll find how to set an address even if that function is disabled for your DCC system.
HUH ?
Must be a quirk of the Lenz system. You can certainly program an address, on the main, with Prodigy Advance and Digitrax Zehpyr systems without endangering other loco's. All that you have to do is select the loco to program (address 3 in this case) and change the address. If you are dumb enough to have more loco's with an address of 3 on the tracks at the same time; yes they will also be changed.
MisterBeasley wrote:STOP RIGHT THERE! And yes, I meant to shout.If you program on the main, remember that you are programming ALL of your locomotives that are on the tracks and receiving the commands. You will set ALL of the addresses unless you remove all the other engines, or put them on dead sidings, etc.That's why some DCC systems (like Lenz) won't even let you program an engine address on the main. If you look deep in the manual for the QSI chip, you'll find how to set an address even if that function is disabled for your DCC system.
NO. This is WRONG. NCE does NOT support "broadcast" programming on the main! You CANNOT program a loco on the main unless it's the one you select. The ONLY way you can do this is if you have 2 or more that ALREADY have the same address.
The upcoming new release may support this, but ONLY if you specifically select it.
DO NOT PANIC.
No, that is NOT TRUE. Using Ops Mode programming on the main directs programming commands to ONLY the selected address. Do not confuse using Ops Mode programming with those systems that do not have a dedicated program track. Even on such systems, Ops Mode does NOT program all locos.
Digitrax Zephyr, DCS100, NCE PowerHouse Pro, CVP Easy-DCC: They have a dedicated program track connection, but ALSO have an option to program in Ops Mode on the main. In Ops Mode only the selected address will be sent program commands. Now, if your loco is at the default address of 03, and you have 5 locos on the track all at address 03, then yes, they will all be programmed. But if loco 1234 is on the track and you select 03 and program that one, ONLY that one will be changed. Loco 1234 will be unaffected.
Digitrax DB150 - this unit does not have a dedicated program track. HOWEVER, it does have an Ops Mode which, like above, will only program a specific loco on the main. If you accidently select one of the othe rprogram modes though, you can indeed accidently reset ALL of your locos. I suspect the NCE PowerCab works in a similar manner
Back to the original question. I wouldhope the manual included by Atlas is similar to the one they included in their Trainmaster. It lists specifically the CV values to program to set each of the cab numbers they offered the loco in. The trick is to reset the loco and verify it works on address 03. With address 03 selected, go into Ops Mode programming and set the values for CV17 and CV18. Then set CV29 to 34 or 38, 34 for no analog and 38 for analog. This will work with or without the verbal readout active. Immediately after setting CV29, you will appear to loose control of the loco. Simply select the 4-digit address you set and everything should be fine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yes this is true, but a) some systems do not have a seperate program track option and b) some systems have trouble programming sound decoders on the program track. Luckily there is the option to program in Ops Mode on the main, safe and able to program said sound decoders.
It's not even just a DCC brand issue - I have been able to program QSI and ESU decoders on the program track of my Zephyr, but people with DCS100 (Super Chief) systems have problems. I am REALLY leary of these various boosters, short protection or not. On advantage of the basic program track is that you can set a newly decodered loco on the program track to test with little danager of damaging the decoder if you have accidently installed it incorrectly.
Without wading through all four of the last excellent posts, well-meaning as they are, I think someone is confusing programming on the main with simply Ops Mode. You can programme on the main in Paged Mode, at least with the Digitrax SEB you can, but that is a problem if even one other locomotive is present on the rails. Both will take the CV adjustment...not good if one is on another address and of a different type.
For on the main programming that is entirely safe for any number of locos present, you must use the non-broadcast method, or Ops Mode. So, some systems will allow main programming in both modes if they have the oomph, but others will need a special programme track and possibly a booster. It depends.
selector wrote:Without wading through all four of the last excellent posts, well-meaning as they are, I think someone is confusing programming on the main with simply Ops Mode. You can programme on the main in Paged Mode, at least with the Digitrax SEB you can, but that is a problem if even one other locomotive is present on the rails. Both will take the CV adjustment...not good if one is on another address and of a different type.For on the main programming that is entirely safe for any number of locos present, you must use the non-broadcast method, or Ops Mode. So, some systems will allow main programming in both modes if they have the oomph, but others will need a special programme track and possibly a booster. It depends.
But we aren't talking about "some systems" here, much less the Digitrax SEB. Kindly "wade through" the first post in this thread -- it's an NCE system. It does NOT allow "broadcast" programming-on-the main.
Did you figure it out?
I was able to program the address of my P2K 0-8-0 using my NCE PowerCab as follows:
1. As received, the Loco was set to short address 3. It's important that the short address be active to start with.
2. Select program on the main, loco 3.
3. Attempt to change the long address to the desired address. The NCE system will send the address, and it should be stored by the decoder. The NCE system, however, inhibits changing of the address on the main, so the long address will not be activated.
4. As previously instructed, use 'program on the main', and modify the CV (29 maybe?) to activate the sort address. There are many individual settings in the same CV, so you must figure out the value that's in there to start with. You can do this using the verbal CV feedback, which is complicated, but documented in the instructions for the decoder. Then figure out what it needs to be to keep all the other settings but activate the long address. This completes the programming sequence, and the engine should now be using the desired long address.
Hope this helps. It took me a while to figure out the verbal CV readback. Comming up with a value for CV29 was easy for me, but I'm a computer engineer and I work with bits all the time. You need to get the current CV value, and convert it to binary (you can use the windows calculator in scientific view. Change the binary bit you need for the address. Then convert back to decimal and set the CV.
Jim
Pondini wrote:..- it's an NCE system. It does NOT allow "broadcast" programming-on-the main.
Fair, enough, I was not aware of this. Still, some systems do, so the terms are not necessarily going to be mutually exclusive, and I felt that some folks were perhaps missing that point.
Thanks for mentioning it.