A couple of months ago I posted a mini-commentary (by the similar name) about the increase in the number of new "splinter groups" that have been "incorporated" here on the forum. While I do understand their purpose, it still concerns me that our forum seems to be gradually breaking up into smaller and smaller fractions and factions of groups. Even the two groups that have started up recently, I've noticed a modicum amount of in-fighting and friction between its "members" over the so-called "infiltraitors" from the other "gang" lurking in on their "meetings". This I find a very disturbing and disheartening trend.
Personally, I find wading through an individual thread on a particular topic a lot easier to initially discern and understand than a continuing "group" thread that contains several "sub-topics" going on at the same time. While this doesn't pose much of a problem on shorter group threads (e.g. 2 pages and <), it does become increasingly more difficult to follow the longer the group thread gets and the number of sub-topics breaks down into further sub- sub-topics.
(In all fairness, the above can be said for ANY longer thread that is posted here on the forum, since it's not uncommon for tangents to take the conversation in different directions. I'm speaking more specifically about topics that are covered under the larger headings that we already have established.)
Perhaps this is just how our forum is ultimately evolving and changing into. If I were a newcomer to the hobby and I stumbled across this forum, I would personally view this trend of collaboration a rather daunting and limiting way to try and learn about something that I think I'm interested in. If you aren't in on the ground floor of the particular group-topic at hand, you have a real job cut out for you, in order to follow all the nuances of the conversation(s). (Let alone, learning all the added terminology and acronyms that we so often rattle off without thinking about it.) This would also likely make me feel as if I were constantly looking "from the outside in" and wonder if I would ever be a part of the conversation or "group".
Unlike Part I to this sequel, there is no need to comment to this post. I'm simply expressing my observations and concerns over some unsatisfying signs that I'm beginning to notice - and some that I have noticed on the forum for a while now. Change is inevitable. Trends do come and some go. Perhaps this would be a good time to just take a small breather from things and re-evaluate.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have noticed that people seem to be short tempered lately, both in this Forum and elsewhere. Too much sugar?
Did you ever take part in this experiment -- a group of people, such as a high school class, and the teacher whispers to the first person a very simple story, maybe a sentence of two, then it is passed along person by person. Then you compare what the last person says to what the first person was told and it is usually amazingly, and hilariously, different.
That is how I feel about most forum posts that go on for over 3 pages. By that time they typicaly have little to do with the posted topic. At that point if you want to continue talking about the listed topic you might as well start a new thread IMHO.
Dave Nelson
dknelson wrote:I have noticed that people seem to be short tempered lately, both in this Forum and elsewhere. Too much sugar? Dave Nelson
While I'm new here I have noticed this trend at other sites I visit. It seems to me that it gets worse in the winter months and then gets better as spring and summer come in.
I think someone called it "Cabin Fever"
Michael Click Here to view my photos at RailPictures.Net!
My Photos at RRPictures.Net: Click Here
MOJAX wrote: dknelson wrote: I have noticed that people seem to be short tempered lately, both in this Forum and elsewhere. Too much sugar? Dave NelsonWhile I'm new here I have noticed this trend at other sites I visit. It seems to me that it gets worse in the winter months and then gets better as spring and summer come in. I think someone called it "Cabin Fever"
dknelson wrote: I have noticed that people seem to be short tempered lately, both in this Forum and elsewhere. Too much sugar? Dave Nelson
True. I've seen the same thing year after year. February and March seem to be the worst months.
There are also changes as members come and go. I've often noticed that the forum heats up when there is a higher concentration of finicky modelers and/or younger members at a given point. They tend to bring in a higher level of passion into the discussions which often results in more 'sparks' flying.
The 'splintering' seems to come and go as well. It all depends on group demographics at the time.
MOJAX wrote: dknelson wrote:I have noticed that people seem to be short tempered lately, both in this Forum and elsewhere. Too much sugar? Dave NelsonWhile I'm new here I have noticed this trend at other sites I visit. It seems to me that it gets worse in the winter months and then gets better as spring and summer come in. I think someone called it "Cabin Fever"
So true, and it seems to be worse the farther north you get and there is less light in winter.
As for the forum, I had suggested in the past that a separate section be created for all these "clubs", "beer barns" etc as it gets pretty old to come to the site and have to wade through all these on the first page. But I have just learnt to put up with it. It has resulted in less visits and posting here though.
Something I've noticed...
I started a thread with links to two project pages in which I explained how I built a staging yard and how I installed an operating signal system. It died. No takers.
But, if I start a thread (admittedly tongue-in-cheek) for DCC people to argue about DC, it lights up like a Christmas tree.
Other forums, which I shall not name, seem to be better places to dicuss the mechanics of model railroading. These forums seem to almost have a philosophical bent to them.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave,
If I may ask, which topics did you post that no-one read or commented. I usually love them, but sometimes I am on call for 48hours and away from the computer. Also, what forums have a better, more philosophical discussion... I would love to read them.
Brian
P.S. I also think peeps are a bit grumpy this month...
Dave Vollmer wrote: Something I've noticed...I started a thread with links to two project pages in which I explained how I built a staging yard and how I installed an operating signal system. It died. No takers.But, if I start a thread (admittedly tongue-in-cheek) for DCC people to argue about DC, it lights up like a Christmas tree.Other forums, which I shall not name, seem to be better places to dicuss the mechanics of model railroading. These forums seem to almost have a philosophical bent to them.
Hey I never saw that post. could you post a link to it please??
I do have to agree with you guys on this though. It was fine when there was only the coffee shop but now we have the following "clubs":
Elliotts Trackside Diner (est 1-1-07)
The 'DC' club
DCC Club
BEER BARN
The "N" Crowd
The "Club" Club
And then we keep getting threads like "loco wish list" or "what's your favorite rollig stock" or "what's your least favorite rolling stock" or "what's your engine roster" or "whatever you can think of".
*stepping off soap box now*
-Smoke
ShadowNix wrote: Dave,If I may ask, which topics did you post that no-one read or commented. I usually love them, but sometimes I am on call for 48hours and away from the computer. Also, what forums have a better, more philosophical discussion... I would love to read them. BrianP.S. I also think peeps are a bit grumpy this month...
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1064705/ShowPost.aspx
No, I meant the other forums (Atlas, Trainboard, Nscale.net, etc.) seem to have more hands-on how-do-ya-do-it stuff while the MR forums tend to get very philosophical very quickly.
There's room for both, though, which is why I come here to stand on my sopabox and those other places to find out, for example, how to kitbash a Pennsy M1b 4-8-2.
Dave Vollmer wrote: ShadowNix wrote: Dave,If I may ask, which topics did you post that no-one read or commented. I usually love them, but sometimes I am on call for 48hours and away from the computer. Also, what forums have a better, more philosophical discussion... I would love to read them. BrianP.S. I also think peeps are a bit grumpy this month... http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1064705/ShowPost.aspxNo, I meant the other forums (Atlas, Trainboard, Nscale.net, etc.) seem to have more hands-on how-do-ya-do-it stuff while the MR forums tend to get very philosophical very quickly.There's room for both, though, which is why I come here to stand on my sopabox and those other places to find out, for example, how to kitbash a Pennsy M1b 4-8-2.
I never even saw that thread. I really like the website except for the heavy prr theme. Just kidding.
I am new member here but have been lurking around for quite some time. I agree with the poster - threads that are about something are dying and flamebait threads or threads such as "So, what color underware does your grandmother wear?" become very active.
Case n point - just today I posted a topic on Atlas Autoracks asking for opinions - let's see how long it lives :)
It seems to go in waves. I found the place dead five weeks ago, and now it has "heated up".
Cabin fever, new experiences over the winter that make previously timid on-lookers bolder to say someone is full of it, a long run and a belly full of MRR over the past four months, and probably an associated burn-out. Sure we're gonna be cross, grumpy, testy, testing, aggressive...all them spring hormones and to-do lists have a whole different purpose to them.
Even I am not immune. I have felt the urge to grit my teeth and get heavy-handed on the keyboard. It is natural.
Shh....is that rhubarb I hear poking out of the soil?
Well Tom,
looks like you got responses anyway ;)
I kinda agree that there whould be another sub forum, either as part of the MRR forums, or a general/generic one as part of the Trains.com set of forums for these "clubs" and groups. While I can see why people like to make the trackside diner/coffee shop threads, I also think that bergie et al. should probably limit these type of threads to one, maybe two per forum - I personally was in the CS for a few months pretty regularly, it was a nice "haven" of sorts from all the "<company A> is way better than <Company B>" flamebait threads... It was a nice place, because most of the topics were just the generic jawing that happens whenever people get together (how's the wife/(grand)kids/etc), as well as the "more heated" topics of atlas vs bachmann vs whoever... but even then, they seemed to saty more civil than other threads on the same topic(s).
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
All I did was hurt my thumb and made a joking post about diabetis and not feeling pain and look how that took on a life of it's own. I noticed on the Scale Model forum that they have more catagories than here and don't seem to have the "club post" thing going on there.
Most of those posts only seem to have a hand full of regular posters on them.
Spring is just around the corner. The rutting season approaches. Deep down, primal forces are stirring. No longer able to fight for dominance of the herd the model railroader vigorously defends his turf. At stake the very lifeblood that courses through his rails. That which makes his domain hum with life is under threat and it must be defended. Some, not able or willing to stir for the fight seek solace in their own herd. But do not fear, as foam hills and mountains gradually turn to green with the placement of trees, as ground-foam Savannah's sprout into life, summer will soon be with us. Then, contented, peace will prevail, as we bask in the joy of new rolling stock passing before our eyes.
Aside from that I think everything is peachy!
So I am off to start a club for HO-code-100-track-using-Digitrax-operators-that-run-both-British-and-American-prototype. At last I can be the alpha-dog of my own pack!!!
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
selector wrote: Shh....is that rhubarb I hear poking out of the soil? "Lotteries are a tax on stupid people."-Overheard on CBC, 2001
"Lotteries are a tax on stupid people."-Overheard on CBC, 2001
No, it's not rhubarb. It's the crocuses here in New England, who had been ready to stick their heads out until they listened to the Weather Channel. Another foot of the white stuff is due.
Actually, we should remember back to the early days of state lotteries. What happened here in Massachusetts is that they pulled the feet right out from under the Mafia. Their big money-maker had been "the numbers game," and the official Mafia numbers were even printed daily in one of the local papers. Totally illegal, but so popular that the state ended up "capitalizing by capitalizing," calling one of their games "The Numbers Game" and playing it exactly the same way. The state, by the way, takes a much larger percentage of the gross than the Mob ever did, but I guess people would rather play a game where the big winners aren't likely to rewarded with a set of cement overshoes.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Actually, there are only a few other places to post in the Model Railroader forums. You only have "General Discussion", "70th Anniversary Boxcar", "Layout building", and "Prototype Information".
If there were more choices of places to post - perhaps a forum for each scale or special interest, the General Discussion forum would clear out a bit.
Suggested forums:
General Discussion
O and S Scale
HO Scale
N and Z Scale
Narrow Gauge (all scales)
Layout Construction
Layout Design
Operations
I've left the 70th Anniversary Boxcar forum out, because I feel it should be in a "prototype" grouping. Same with the prototype info for modelers heading.
Just my
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Thanks for noticing, Mr. B. I was wondering if that quote would stir up some discussion. It is a contentious statement, to be sure. If I had had a mouthful of beer when I heard it, you know what would have happened.
selector wrote: Thanks for noticing, Mr. B. I was wondering if that quote would stir up some discussion. It is a contentious statement, to be sure. If I had had a mouthful of beer when I heard it, you know what would have happened.
Do you mean the rhubarb quote or the lottery quote? Both are contentious here in Massachusetts, where Teddy Kennedy opposes taxing stupid people and we are sensitive about our short growing season. Well, as Teddy himself would say, "I'll drive off that bridge when I come to it."
ROFLMAO!!!! You two are cracking me up.
Compared to a year ago I think we are doing quite well thank you very much.
If I remember there was a war between the pollsters and the poll--haters.
There were people angry about people making useless posts to boost star counts.
There were several troll attacks--some where the board was closed.
There was anger directed at MR for all sorts of reasons.
I even had several people who, for some reason or another, chose to attack me any time I made a post. (I figure they were jealous of my good looks.)
So compared to that, we are sailing smooth.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
MisterBeasley wrote: Well, as Teddy himself would say, "I'll drive off that bridge when I come to it."
Stop it! You're killing me!
Oh, I did I say killing? I meant involuntary manslaughter...
Tom--
It seems to be a kind of 'generalized' thing, not only on this forum (and I freely admit to being part of the problem, occasionally), but on several other forums to which I belong.
One is Classic Films. A poster will start a topic, say "My all-time favorite Western movie" and by the time six or eight posters have responded, instead of discussing our favorite Western, we're all embroiled in a heated argument over whether or not John Ford treated the Indians fairly in his "Cavalry Epics", when that could very well be a separate thread. But I think that topics will stray and splinter almost anytime you get a fairly large group of people contributing (and as I said, I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else).
Frankly, and as a teacher, I don't mind saying this--our attention spans are often more limited today than they were, say ten or fifteen years ago. I think it's because society as a whole has been moving at a much faster pace. It's much easier to 'break topic' and drift off into something only remotely related to the original discussion, then to treat the original idea with depth and detail. I'm saying this generally, not specifically, because I think that a lot of posters (myself included) would much rather discuss a particular topic in detail, because that's how we all learn from it.
Frankly, I don't know the answer. But I'm sure there IS one.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Y'know what we're missing? Midweek Photo Fun. All weekend long, we're all putting our energies into Weekend Photo Fun. We're gonna hit a hundred posts one of these weekends. But during the week, we don't have anything like that so we get into trouble. Maybe it's cabin fever, or maybe we're just tired of ballasting, but there's a lot of mischief to be made here.
Also, we don't have any contentions MTH or Internet Trains threads running right now. That used to satisfy our blood-lust, too. No trolls, either.
Well, I see Selector has just posted the weekend's first photo, and it's a beauty.
MAbruce wrote: MisterBeasley wrote: Well, as Teddy himself would say, "I'll drive off that bridge when I come to it." Stop it! You're killing me!Oh, I did I say killing? I meant involuntary manslaughter...
Mr. Beasley, Bruce...that was just too funny. I'll use those next time my co-workers get into political debates! They seem to "drown" in sorrow whenever Teddy speaks....
Smoke,
Good points expressed. But give it time. More than likely, in a few days or a week the DC Club, DCC Club, and "Club Club" threads will find there way to the back pages.
Space Mouse,
I've missed your posts. Good to see you.
I wonder now if it is the winter months...or what. I remember last year when it seemed like you were getting "blow torched"....( I was too).... I wondered what had you done? I guess it was your turn in the barrel. I try and stay out of it and be positive, but I somehow manage to get sucked in every now and then, especially by younger members that are sometimes passionate about their views. It's ironic since I work with and help kids.
Yes, to your statement about those other forums. But don't forget that during 05, the Atlas forum deteriorated to a cornfield meet-flame fest on more than one occasion. At the same time, our forum here was engrossed with a great "how-to-do-it", "step-by-step", and technical threads. NightCrawler and FundyNorthern come to mind.
Forward to today: CMarchand has provided a good deal of technical information regarding locomotive mechanisms,electronics, and DCC So there is still much to be gained here.
Change is inevitable. Members leave, new ones join, some visit every once in a while. So forums will sail in different directions as time moves on. In the process, if the members enjoy, learn, and fellowship in it then it will be viewed as a good place to visit on the web.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I generally stay out of the clubs. I did follow the DC and DCC "clubs" at first to see if they would evolve into specialized technical information exchange threads, but apparently no such luck. I had hoped for more, especially for the DC club, since information and how-tos are becoming much harder to find in the hobby magazines and books.
I've come to see that for the most part, technical information gets shared when a newer model railroader unfamiliar with the search functions asks the familiar questions. There are obvious exceptions, but I think that most of us with a layout or 2 under our belts are pretty set in the methods and techniques we are likely to use in layout construction. A new method or technique has to be demonstrably better than what we are already doing. And if the new way in anyway hints that what we as individuals have been doing is no longer "approved", then we reflexively go to the defensive offense.
So once we have all unloaded as to why our preferred L-girder/cookie cutter/hard shell/DC/flex track/car card methods are so much better than the box frame/foam/foam inclines/foam scenery/DCC/road bed included track/way bills of the other guy, there is little left to discuss other than philosophy.
just my thoughts
Fred W
I piped up in the Club Club, largely because it is a good shot in the ribs at the other "clubs." At least I hope that was it's intent, I guess you never know anymore.
I think it is more a function of society than the forum. Someone said to me a few weeks ago that they believe there is a lack of critical thinking these days. I've been pondering that since (critical thinking about the lack of critical thinking???). Seems like all too often people are perfectly satisfied to enter into discussions with their mind made up, carefully disregard all the other discussion, voice their view with little or no supporting info, criticize those who don't agree, and declare victory. I guess that means our society has de-evolved to operate line Congress!
Although on a sports forum I frequent there does seem to be good discussion/debate, but that forum is moderated in a somewhat unique manner. They don't intervene often, but when they do it is like hockey linesman - they'll let the combatants duke it out until they are tired then send them both to the penalty box to serve majors.
For sure, I'd like to see the forum topics grouped differently. But that has come up before and been met with deaf ears by those who pay the bills.
My own guidelines to my posts are that I try to imagine them being read by somebody new to the forum, if not the hobby. Will the words help that person get the same bug we all have for this hobby, will it answer their question, or will it only serve to drive them away?
For my other life philosphy's one only need to visit despair.com!
- Mark
Smoke, I've figured out how to deal with those specialty threads and, to be nice I'll just call them unproductive threads; I don't open them, which means that I sometimes open the forum, look at the topics that have been posted since the last time I visited, and then close the forum.