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Freelancers Killing The Hobby?

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, March 4, 2007 3:49 PM
 IRONROOSTER wrote:
But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road.  As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S).  If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing?
There is always the interchange where any car can end up on any railroad.  I can't see that someone's Pennsy or UP prototypical based layout is compromised by a foreign car from any road be it real or imaginary.

What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?
In this case, I would say that technically is not modeling Ma&Pa, but some sort of freelance called Ma&Pa.

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Posted by richg1998 on Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:21 PM

I am enjoying this thread. Keep on freelancing. You help fulfill the needs of rivet counters. There are a lot of old timers who are frustrated and need someone like you to help them. Smile [:)]

 rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:27 AM

Whistling [:-^]

Right on Paul. You hit the perverbial nail directly "head on"

The "WOBBLY" still liveth, believe me.....................

What ever it is, if you want success - you have to love it.

James:1  Verse:5

R.J.C. from the Great White North

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:06 AM
 IRONROOSTER wrote:

It's interesting reading this thread. 

It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name. 

But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road.  As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S).  If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing? 

What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?

What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?

How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?

Just curious

Paul 

Paul,If I may.. There are several approaches to the hobby and its up to the modeler to choose his/her own path.

 Over the years of observation I have group them as:

Fantasy modeling..This is where anything goes to include a camelback lettered for Ma & Pa or a GG1 lettered for Chessie..

Prototype modeling..This is where a modeler models a given prototype on a generic layout or club layout and not worry if his/her engines are correctly detailed other then minor details such as hood mounted bells and horn type.They model close enough/good enough

Advanced Prototype modeling..This is where the modeler wants 110% accuracy for all locomotives and all freight cars.His/her layout will be a given division, era and year.This is the hardest modeling style because of the strict disciplines needed to model in such fashion..

Freelance..This is where a modeler models a fictitious railroad based on strict disciplines to include area,year,road name,color scheme ect..The thing here is to have a believable freelance railroad.Now a freelance railroad that the owners uses say CSX and CR locomotives this is not a true freelance railroad.It is in truth a paper railroad owned jointly by CSX and CR..Nothing wrong with that approach either..

Free Wheelers..These are the modelers that I enjoy the most..God bless 'em..They have no qualms about running a Big Boy along side of a SD90MAC or a 4-4-0 along side of a GP38-2..

There is no doubt these free wheelers probably have more fun then all other types of modelers put together because they follow no disciplines!Big Smile [:D]Thumbs Up [tup]

The operating collector..He/she has locomotives from several railroads for a given era and follows no set disciplines other then to collect whatever catches his/her eye..Big Smile [:D]

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 4, 2007 8:50 AM
Freelancers enhance the hobby by encouraging you to move beyond the store shelf to create something truly unique.  This is a higher level of the hobby for those so interested.  Also freelancers encourage manufacturers to produce products as well.  If manufacturers see a pattern with regard to the types of items freelanced  - they can use that to determine whether or not there would be demand enough for mass producing the item.
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Posted by RedGrey62 on Sunday, March 4, 2007 8:06 AM
 IRONROOSTER wrote:

It's interesting reading this thread. 

It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name. 

But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road.  As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S).  If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing? 

What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?

What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?

How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?

Just curious

Paul 

Paul

I think we all have a little freelance in us.  I model the CB&Q "in the 60's", but I have a steam loco that was scrapped long before that. 

Your comments on the buildings are spot on.  While there are many folks who scratchbuild and kitbash structures to be very close to the prototype, I would wager most of us have buildings that are "very close" or "a similar type" as stand ins. 

I read the post in question and its nothing more than a cheap shot taken from the relative safety of the anonymous internet.  It was probably done to stoke the fires of contreversy more than anything else, "lets see if we can get some folks riled up over this one". 

Rick

"...Mother Nature will always punish the incompetent and uninformed." Bill Barney from Thor's Legions
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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, March 4, 2007 7:48 AM

It's interesting reading this thread. 

It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name. 

But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road.  As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S).  If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing? 

What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?

What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?

How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?

Just curious

Paul 

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by train18393 on Sunday, March 4, 2007 3:12 AM

I model a Big Four section of the NYC System in Ohio. It is called the Dayton and Mad River Railroad. It runs from Dayton to Springfield Ohio. The names used are actual place names. The secenery is generally correct for that part of the country. My Terminal in dayton is similar to Lasalle station in Chichago. There are elements from Toledo where I grew up. My rolling stock is predominatly NYC, with motive power NYC also. I do have some equipment lettered in D&MR including engines. They are numbered with NYC series, but none of my D&MR engines have a number of a NYC or its subs. My R_O_W structures are modeled after NYC structures, but did not exist where they are in the real world. Would this be freelanced?  I would not build a diesel engine with steam power (stiesel) but I can appreciate the work that went into it. (this is not a personal attack on your work.) I would run it on my layout, which by the way is set up for continous running even though the prototype is not.

 My advice would be that you can not please everybody all the time. You are always going to have critics and people you just plain ****-off. The different approaches just get a different set of people critical of your work. You should feel free to model out of bounds all  you want. If it were not for the nature of the original post I would not have criticized your stiesel. I think it looks like you put alot of work into your creations, and it is about having fun. With me it is creating pleaslureable feelings about my fictitious facts. You appear to be doing the same thing. Model Railroading is fun, and should be fun for you also. We as a group need to show different facets of modeling, or people will think we are a bunch of nit-picking, got to do it according to some unwritten rules. I have found that is not the case of model railroaders. There are plenty of creative modelers. Model railroaders invented DCC, that was pretty creative. Model Railroaders have come up with standards to make equipment interchangabel between manufactures, model railroaders have even invented American Locomotive Works-ElectroMotive Diesel engines.(Fill in the correct manufactures) Does it have MU capabilities? Have a wonderful day. 

Paul

Dayton and Mad River RR 

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Posted by tutaenui on Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:37 AM
I think the rivet counting nit-pickers do more to kill the hobby.
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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Saturday, March 3, 2007 10:21 PM
 pilot wrote:
At some point in my life I stopped worrying about what other people think and started concerning myself with what I can do successfully. Works for me, afterall, I'm the one that is going to have to do it.


I have to answer only to the great IAM and that ugly character who looks at me when I'm shaving every morning.  I don't have to answer to my snuggle; I do that because I don't like to sleep in that little old house with the word FIDO engraved over the front door.

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by Tracklayer on Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:52 PM

 TrainFreak409 wrote:
TL, you have a private message from me.

I left a reply Scott. However, if you didn't get it, let me know and I'll try again.

Tracklayer

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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:31 PM
TL, you have a private message from me.

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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Posted by Tracklayer on Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:21 PM

 TrainFreak409 wrote:
Now...Am I missing something that occured a week ago on the forum. There have been a few mentions of a thread posted by Tracklayer (if I remember correctly after reading everything)...Should I know the story behind that one? I haven't been on the forum in a few weeks...

Yes TrainFreak409. You did miss it. It was a thread entitled WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MODEL RAILROADER. In it, I stated that in order to be a true model railroader, one should have skills in every aspect of the hobby from being a carpenter, to knowing arts and crafts, wiring, being mechanically inclined so that they could work on their own rolling stock and locos, etc., and several of the members went ballistic on me!... Anyway, Bergie deleted it, and emailed me saying more or less shame on me. I think his concern as always is the possibility of members being driven away by negative threads and replies which might in turn hurt the magazine(s) he works for, and I would never want to do that. 

I also included why I wrote it, which was because a totally dysfuctional guy I was trying to help get into the hobby wasn't learning anything, we had words and I gave up on him.

A also added a few of my other talents and things I've done over the years to give the members a better idea of who I was, but that just added fuel to the fire... I think from now on I'm just going to be Tracklayer the model railroader and leave it at that.

Tracklayer

 

 

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Posted by Tracklayer on Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:11 PM
 tstage wrote:

Here we go again.  I see this thread going the way of Tracklayer's thread from last weekend.  I won't be surprised if this gets into a squabble early on.

Tom 

Your right Tom. Bergie deleted it too, then sent me a stern little email saying - You shouldn't have to have eight years of college to be a model railroader. It's just a hobby for for crying out loud... I hate to admit it but he was right, I was wrong. Oh well. Live and learn. 

Tracklayer

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Posted by jecorbett on Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:53 PM
I am a freelancer. I model to please one person. Me. I can't imagine my approach to the hobby would drive anyone else away but if it does, I don't care.
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Posted by Morpar on Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:38 PM

If someone wants to get down to it, unless you are working on the real thing it is all a version of freelancing! Not a single prototype loco runs on 12 volts dc with only 1 or 2 motors at most. None of the locos I have ever seen have a plastic, brass, or cast metal body. Let alone DCC and plastic freight cars that don't actually earn their keep. I say let this "brainiac" come to this forum and post using a real name and address and see how quickly he is run off.

As for modeling styles, I prefer my freelance road to anything in the real world. It's my line. I'm the one helping keep the hobby shop in business with my purchases for items that aren't "real". I can build my monster diesels, steamers, electrics, or anything else that seems enjoyable. Oh wait, isn't that the purpose of a hobby; enjoyment? Relaxation. Pleasure. If those aren't the reasons someone is in this hobby, then why is anyone doing it? Huh, I never made the connection. Thanks Mr. Obvious, you're a lifesaver!

In closing, ignore this idiot. Do want you want, I for one enjoy some large, unlikely to be built in the real world motive power, so that's what I have been working on. Good luck, and remember this quote I saw somwhere, "Model Railroading Is Fun!"

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by inch53 on Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:08 PM

 

Don't worry bout it, seeing as he was so proud of his oppinoin, he couldn't even leave he's real name or address [coward].

Freelancers are what this hobby is made of. Even rivet counters have to do some, to make a small area seem to cover a larger than it it is.

Beside I was invested for murder one time. No charges filed, found to be justified self defense.

inch 

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309

DISCLAIMER-- This post does not clam anything posted here as fact or truth, but it may be just plain funny
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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:26 PM
Now...Am I missing something that occured a week ago on the forum. There have been a few mentions of a thread posted by Tracklayer (if I remember correctly after reading everything)...Should I know the story behind that one? I haven't been on the forum in a few weeks...

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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Posted by twhite on Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:13 PM

Scott--

Tell you what, my friend.  You get the guy's address from his e-mail, let me know, I'll send my buddies Guido and Thumbs Louie over to his house and let them rip off his front porch with their teeth, okay? 

Prototype, free-lance, proto-lance--whatever, it's first and foremost a HOBBY and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed.  If I want to number my two Akane M-4 Missabe yellowstones in Denver and Rio Grande and assign them the never-was 3900 series, I'll bloody well DO it!  In fact, I have.  And my Rio Grande Yuba River sub runs where Rio Grande (or ANY railroad for that matter) never ran, the North Yuba River country of the California Sierra Nevadas.  And if THAT upsets anyone, well--whoop-de-effing-do! 

Oh, my goodness--is that a Pennsy J-1a hauling a coal train over Yuba Pass?  HORRORS!!  Yah, right.  If whatever kind of 'lancing' we call it is ruining the hobby, then the hobby must have died a really TERRIBLE death with John Allen, back in the 'fifties.  Or Bill McClanahan or Malcolm Furlow. 

Like I said, let me know, and I'll call up Guido and Thumbs Louie.  They work cheap, they'll probably do it for a large sausage and pepperoni pizza. 

Tom  

 

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Posted by HEdward on Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:31 PM
So is there any prototype that had an entire operation in just under a million square feet?  That's what my 6x20 foot HO layout is allocated.  It has no choice but to be a freelanced locale, sowhy not a freelance railroad?  Rivet counters may now shoot me.
Proud to be DD-2itized! 1:1 scale is too unrealistic. Twins are twice as nice!
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:16 PM

Pay no heed to the haters. They have no pride of their own so they always feel the need to drag everyone else down to their pathetic level.

 

As for freelancing I would say just about all of model railroading is freelancing to an extent. Some like to model a completely fictitious railroad in a completely fictitious locale, others like to model a fictitious railroad in a real place. Others still like myself model a real railroad in a fictitious place while even more model a real railroad in a real place as they wish it existed. Even those who go the real railroad, real place route often times model a fictitious segment of the real place. So when you get down to it in a way freelancers are probably the largest part of the hobby.

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Posted by on30francisco on Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:31 PM
 BRAKIE wrote:

Yes the following hobbyist  is wanted for murder of the hobby by freelance.

Tony Koester-now hiding behind the moniker of NKP Clover Leaf District.

Allen McClelland

Bruce Chubb

Bill Darnaby

Eric Brooman

David Barrow

George Sellios

Lance Mindheim

Brakie

and many John Does.

Yup murderers all!

Don't forget Malcolm Furlow (my hero) 

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Posted by easyaces on Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:16 PM
Why would freelancers kill the hobby? What Bunk!!! I freelance my own layout and model in the present, with just a little bit of older nostalgic stuff thrown in. I think its ok to take liberties in whatever era you decide to in provided you don't over-do it.
MR&L(Muncie,Rochester&Lafayette)"Serving the Hoosier Triangle" "If you lost it in the Hoosier Triangle, We probably shipped it " !!
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Posted by on30francisco on Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:01 PM
I don't think freelancers, prototype modelers, or anything in between (protolancers?) will drive anyone either into or out of the hobby. Freelancers and protolancers may actually encourage more people to take up the hobby as it is a means to express their artistic and creative ambitions without the rigid restrictions pertinent to prototype modeling. My hat is off to those who endeavor to create exact models of prototypes but for me, and this is MY opinion, it is too restrictive and more like a chore than an enjoyable pasttime. I get much more enjoyment out of freelance (protolance?) type modeling and prefer to model items that are based on either prototype practices or plausable "could have been" prototypes. There is no right way to model as both methods and everything in between is valid. The most important thing to remember is MODEL RAILROADING IS FUN!
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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:29 PM

 tatans wrote:
What is the definition of "freelance" ? ? and what does it have to do with model railroading??? I think I understand the meaning of "prototype" which means recreating the EXACT reproduction of the real thing(all of which we know CANNOT be done) so it would seem ALL model railroading is "Freelance"  no??????

 

 

Like this.These are pictures on my freelance short line Columbus & Hocking Valley.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:24 PM
 tatans wrote:
What is the definition of "freelance" ? ? and what does it have to do with model railroading???
Sorry, we all to often assume everyone knows what we are talking about.   A freelance railroad is simply a ficticious railroad.  We make them up as if they really exist, and then model it as our prototype.
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Posted by tatans on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:16 PM
What is the definition of "freelance" ? ? and what does it have to do with model railroading??? I think I understand the meaning of "prototype" which means recreating the EXACT reproduction of the real thing(all of which we know CANNOT be done) so it would seem ALL model railroading is "Freelance"  no??????
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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:11 PM

Yes the following hobbyist  is wanted for murder of the hobby by freelance.

Tony Koester-now hiding behind the moniker of NKP Clover Leaf District.

Allen McClelland

Bruce Chubb

Bill Darnaby

Eric Brooman

David Barrow

George Sellios

Lance Mindheim

Brakie

and many John Does.

Yup murderers all!

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by tgindy on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:08 PM
 tomikawaTT wrote:

The first of anything, model or 1:1 scale, is a freelance design.  Everything of the same design that comes after copies a prototype.  Looked at that way, if nobody ever freelanced anything we still wouldn't have chipped flint tools to butcher whatever got dragged back to the cave by the club- and rock-armed hunters.

Right on target!  I really have a deep respect for common sense.

Now, to quote "yeahno@hotmail.com" (Tue Feb 20 01:39:18 EST 2007) at your website...

"It's people like you who are killing our hobby, this fantasy nonsense is for 3-rail Lionel people, and judging from your posts on the MR forum..."

Just an observation... 

QUERY:  Have you ever run across anyone who says things out loud they haven't thought of yet?

 

Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956

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Posted by Hoople on Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:06 PM
Saywhat?
Why is freelancing bad? Sure the guy is jealous of you, but still, Why are freelancers bad?
I don't see why. Now I can run Big Boys with daylights, FEFs and K-27s, you name it.
Mark.

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