Pay no heed to the haters. They have no pride of their own so they always feel the need to drag everyone else down to their pathetic level.
As for freelancing I would say just about all of model railroading is freelancing to an extent. Some like to model a completely fictitious railroad in a completely fictitious locale, others like to model a fictitious railroad in a real place. Others still like myself model a real railroad in a fictitious place while even more model a real railroad in a real place as they wish it existed. Even those who go the real railroad, real place route often times model a fictitious segment of the real place. So when you get down to it in a way freelancers are probably the largest part of the hobby.
Scott--
Tell you what, my friend. You get the guy's address from his e-mail, let me know, I'll send my buddies Guido and Thumbs Louie over to his house and let them rip off his front porch with their teeth, okay?
Prototype, free-lance, proto-lance--whatever, it's first and foremost a HOBBY and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed. If I want to number my two Akane M-4 Missabe yellowstones in Denver and Rio Grande and assign them the never-was 3900 series, I'll bloody well DO it! In fact, I have. And my Rio Grande Yuba River sub runs where Rio Grande (or ANY railroad for that matter) never ran, the North Yuba River country of the California Sierra Nevadas. And if THAT upsets anyone, well--whoop-de-effing-do!
Oh, my goodness--is that a Pennsy J-1a hauling a coal train over Yuba Pass? HORRORS!! Yah, right. If whatever kind of 'lancing' we call it is ruining the hobby, then the hobby must have died a really TERRIBLE death with John Allen, back in the 'fifties. Or Bill McClanahan or Malcolm Furlow.
Like I said, let me know, and I'll call up Guido and Thumbs Louie. They work cheap, they'll probably do it for a large sausage and pepperoni pizza.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
Don't worry bout it, seeing as he was so proud of his oppinoin, he couldn't even leave he's real name or address [coward].
Freelancers are what this hobby is made of. Even rivet counters have to do some, to make a small area seem to cover a larger than it it is.
Beside I was invested for murder one time. No charges filed, found to be justified self defense.
inch
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
If someone wants to get down to it, unless you are working on the real thing it is all a version of freelancing! Not a single prototype loco runs on 12 volts dc with only 1 or 2 motors at most. None of the locos I have ever seen have a plastic, brass, or cast metal body. Let alone DCC and plastic freight cars that don't actually earn their keep. I say let this "brainiac" come to this forum and post using a real name and address and see how quickly he is run off.
As for modeling styles, I prefer my freelance road to anything in the real world. It's my line. I'm the one helping keep the hobby shop in business with my purchases for items that aren't "real". I can build my monster diesels, steamers, electrics, or anything else that seems enjoyable. Oh wait, isn't that the purpose of a hobby; enjoyment? Relaxation. Pleasure. If those aren't the reasons someone is in this hobby, then why is anyone doing it? Huh, I never made the connection. Thanks Mr. Obvious, you're a lifesaver!
In closing, ignore this idiot. Do want you want, I for one enjoy some large, unlikely to be built in the real world motive power, so that's what I have been working on. Good luck, and remember this quote I saw somwhere, "Model Railroading Is Fun!"
Good Luck, Morpar
tstage wrote: Here we go again. I see this thread going the way of Tracklayer's thread from last weekend. I won't be surprised if this gets into a squabble early on.Tom
Here we go again. I see this thread going the way of Tracklayer's thread from last weekend. I won't be surprised if this gets into a squabble early on.
Your right Tom. Bergie deleted it too, then sent me a stern little email saying - You shouldn't have to have eight years of college to be a model railroader. It's just a hobby for for crying out loud... I hate to admit it but he was right, I was wrong. Oh well. Live and learn.
Tracklayer
TrainFreak409 wrote:Now...Am I missing something that occured a week ago on the forum. There have been a few mentions of a thread posted by Tracklayer (if I remember correctly after reading everything)...Should I know the story behind that one? I haven't been on the forum in a few weeks...
Yes TrainFreak409. You did miss it. It was a thread entitled WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MODEL RAILROADER. In it, I stated that in order to be a true model railroader, one should have skills in every aspect of the hobby from being a carpenter, to knowing arts and crafts, wiring, being mechanically inclined so that they could work on their own rolling stock and locos, etc., and several of the members went ballistic on me!... Anyway, Bergie deleted it, and emailed me saying more or less shame on me. I think his concern as always is the possibility of members being driven away by negative threads and replies which might in turn hurt the magazine(s) he works for, and I would never want to do that.
I also included why I wrote it, which was because a totally dysfuctional guy I was trying to help get into the hobby wasn't learning anything, we had words and I gave up on him.
A also added a few of my other talents and things I've done over the years to give the members a better idea of who I was, but that just added fuel to the fire... I think from now on I'm just going to be Tracklayer the model railroader and leave it at that.
TrainFreak409 wrote:TL, you have a private message from me.
I left a reply Scott. However, if you didn't get it, let me know and I'll try again.
pilot wrote:At some point in my life I stopped worrying about what other people think and started concerning myself with what I can do successfully. Works for me, afterall, I'm the one that is going to have to do it.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I model a Big Four section of the NYC System in Ohio. It is called the Dayton and Mad River Railroad. It runs from Dayton to Springfield Ohio. The names used are actual place names. The secenery is generally correct for that part of the country. My Terminal in dayton is similar to Lasalle station in Chichago. There are elements from Toledo where I grew up. My rolling stock is predominatly NYC, with motive power NYC also. I do have some equipment lettered in D&MR including engines. They are numbered with NYC series, but none of my D&MR engines have a number of a NYC or its subs. My R_O_W structures are modeled after NYC structures, but did not exist where they are in the real world. Would this be freelanced? I would not build a diesel engine with steam power (stiesel) but I can appreciate the work that went into it. (this is not a personal attack on your work.) I would run it on my layout, which by the way is set up for continous running even though the prototype is not.
My advice would be that you can not please everybody all the time. You are always going to have critics and people you just plain ****-off. The different approaches just get a different set of people critical of your work. You should feel free to model out of bounds all you want. If it were not for the nature of the original post I would not have criticized your stiesel. I think it looks like you put alot of work into your creations, and it is about having fun. With me it is creating pleaslureable feelings about my fictitious facts. You appear to be doing the same thing. Model Railroading is fun, and should be fun for you also. We as a group need to show different facets of modeling, or people will think we are a bunch of nit-picking, got to do it according to some unwritten rules. I have found that is not the case of model railroaders. There are plenty of creative modelers. Model railroaders invented DCC, that was pretty creative. Model Railroaders have come up with standards to make equipment interchangabel between manufactures, model railroaders have even invented American Locomotive Works-ElectroMotive Diesel engines.(Fill in the correct manufactures) Does it have MU capabilities? Have a wonderful day.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
It's interesting reading this thread.
It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name.
But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road. As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S). If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing?
What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?
What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?
How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?
Just curious
IRONROOSTER wrote: It's interesting reading this thread. It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name. But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road. As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S). If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing? What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?Just curiousPaul
I think we all have a little freelance in us. I model the CB&Q "in the 60's", but I have a steam loco that was scrapped long before that.
Your comments on the buildings are spot on. While there are many folks who scratchbuild and kitbash structures to be very close to the prototype, I would wager most of us have buildings that are "very close" or "a similar type" as stand ins.
I read the post in question and its nothing more than a cheap shot taken from the relative safety of the anonymous internet. It was probably done to stoke the fires of contreversy more than anything else, "lets see if we can get some folks riled up over this one".
Rick
Paul,If I may.. There are several approaches to the hobby and its up to the modeler to choose his/her own path.
Over the years of observation I have group them as:
Fantasy modeling..This is where anything goes to include a camelback lettered for Ma & Pa or a GG1 lettered for Chessie..
Prototype modeling..This is where a modeler models a given prototype on a generic layout or club layout and not worry if his/her engines are correctly detailed other then minor details such as hood mounted bells and horn type.They model close enough/good enough
Advanced Prototype modeling..This is where the modeler wants 110% accuracy for all locomotives and all freight cars.His/her layout will be a given division, era and year.This is the hardest modeling style because of the strict disciplines needed to model in such fashion..
Freelance..This is where a modeler models a fictitious railroad based on strict disciplines to include area,year,road name,color scheme ect..The thing here is to have a believable freelance railroad.Now a freelance railroad that the owners uses say CSX and CR locomotives this is not a true freelance railroad.It is in truth a paper railroad owned jointly by CSX and CR..Nothing wrong with that approach either..
Free Wheelers..These are the modelers that I enjoy the most..God bless 'em..They have no qualms about running a Big Boy along side of a SD90MAC or a 4-4-0 along side of a GP38-2..
There is no doubt these free wheelers probably have more fun then all other types of modelers put together because they follow no disciplines!
The operating collector..He/she has locomotives from several railroads for a given era and follows no set disciplines other then to collect whatever catches his/her eye..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Right on Paul. You hit the perverbial nail directly "head on"
The "WOBBLY" still liveth, believe me.....................
What ever it is, if you want success - you have to love it.
James:1 Verse:5
R.J.C. from the Great White North
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I am enjoying this thread. Keep on freelancing. You help fulfill the needs of rivet counters. There are a lot of old timers who are frustrated and need someone like you to help them.
rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
IRONROOSTER wrote:But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road. As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S). If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing?
TrainFreak409 wrote:I just checked the guestbook on my website, and found a very interesting comment left there on February 20, 2007.http://www.freewebs.com/sblocomotives/guestbook.htmAnd that seriously got me thinking...Do Freelancers drive away people? Maybe possibly in the respect that many freelancers will kit-bash or scratch-build differently styled motive power or rolling stock or whatnot; and newcomers may look upon this, try their hand, find they cannot do it the first time, and leave the hobby.
I just checked the guestbook on my website, and found a very interesting comment left there on February 20, 2007.
http://www.freewebs.com/sblocomotives/guestbook.htm
And that seriously got me thinking...
Do Freelancers drive away people? Maybe possibly in the respect that many freelancers will kit-bash or scratch-build differently styled motive power or rolling stock or whatnot; and newcomers may look upon this, try their hand, find they cannot do it the first time, and leave the hobby.
Do people who build their own computers ruin the computer industry? There will always be people who will buy off-the shelf computers, and the manufacturers will always make them (Dell, Apple, Gateway, etc.) Likewise there will always be people who will buy their own CPUs, cases, RAM, hard drives, motherboards, etc.
Well, first of all, what a person want to do with hobby is entirely his own business and no one else's.
Secondly, it's a free market, you like it you buy and if you don't like it, then walk away!
I think it's that person who is ruining the hobby industry beause they are so critical of others, always think he's always right and there is no one above him (self centred).
I wouldn't worry about it, I mean in modern railroading, it's impossible to model a prototype container train or even a mixed goods train because they are simply too long anyway! So what gives? If I recall correctly, there is even a freelanced 2-10-2 product review in the Feb issue of MRR, is he going to complain to the editor about that as well?
Paul3 wrote: Man, I really wouldn't worry about it. Obviously a troll. Probably a kid (seriously...who uses the word "dork" after high school?). Totally jealous. Ignore it. In fact, if it was me, I'd delete this thread here because I wouldn't want to give them the satisfaction of knowing that I even read their useless diatribe, but that's your call.IMHO, what really drives away people from the hobby is 1) cheap equipment that doesn't work very well. Train set stuff, IOW. 2) the skills required to build a model railroad. Some people just don't have 'em, and don't want to learn 'em. 3) a lack of knowledge of prices & value. IOW, newbies take one look at a BLI steamer at $400 and gasp...meanwhile there's a perfectly good Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 for under $100, or a P1K diesel for $75, or an Athearn BB for $55.Free lancers and prototypers are near the bottom of the list of reasons why not to be a model railroader. Pure rubbish, IOW.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Man, I really wouldn't worry about it. Obviously a troll. Probably a kid (seriously...who uses the word "dork" after high school?). Totally jealous. Ignore it. In fact, if it was me, I'd delete this thread here because I wouldn't want to give them the satisfaction of knowing that I even read their useless diatribe, but that's your call.
IMHO, what really drives away people from the hobby is 1) cheap equipment that doesn't work very well. Train set stuff, IOW. 2) the skills required to build a model railroad. Some people just don't have 'em, and don't want to learn 'em. 3) a lack of knowledge of prices & value. IOW, newbies take one look at a BLI steamer at $400 and gasp...meanwhile there's a perfectly good Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 for under $100, or a P1K diesel for $75, or an Athearn BB for $55.
Free lancers and prototypers are near the bottom of the list of reasons why not to be a model railroader. Pure rubbish, IOW.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Hahaha...I think otherwise! I thnk he is a lonely bitter old man who had nothing else better to do since there is nothing else to work on his layout because it's been modeled to perfection and already looked just like the real thing! LOL
BRAKIE wrote: IRONROOSTER wrote: It's interesting reading this thread. It appears that many (most?) folks think of free lancing as having your own railroad name. But suppose you run cars lettered for someone else's road. As an example, I have all the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends cars (at least all that were done in S). If I run a G&D boxcar behind my GG1, which I do, am I freelancing? What about if I model the Ma&Pa and I have a 4-6-0 camelback lettered for the Ma&Pa, even though they never had one?What if some of my buildings are from Bar Mills with a New England look, but I use them in a village on the Southern?How many people are so pure that they never do any of this? Or are we all free lancers?Just curiousPaul Paul,If I may.. There are several approaches to the hobby and its up to the modeler to choose his/her own path. Over the years of observation I have group them as:Fantasy modeling..This is where anything goes to include a camelback lettered for Ma & Pa or a GG1 lettered for Chessie..Prototype modeling..This is where a modeler models a given prototype on a generic layout or club layout and not worry if his/her engines are correctly detailed other then minor details such as hood mounted bells and horn type.They model close enough/good enoughAdvanced Prototype modeling..This is where the modeler wants 110% accuracy for all locomotives and all freight cars.His/her layout will be a given division, era and year.This is the hardest modeling style because of the strict disciplines needed to model in such fashion..Freelance..This is where a modeler models a fictitious railroad based on strict disciplines to include area,year,road name,color scheme ect..The thing here is to have a believable freelance railroad.Now a freelance railroad that the owners uses say CSX and CR locomotives this is not a true freelance railroad.It is in truth a paper railroad owned jointly by CSX and CR..Nothing wrong with that approach either..Free Wheelers..These are the modelers that I enjoy the most..God bless 'em..They have no qualms about running a Big Boy along side of a SD90MAC or a 4-4-0 along side of a GP38-2..There is no doubt these free wheelers probably have more fun then all other types of modelers put together because they follow no disciplines!The operating collector..He/she has locomotives from several railroads for a given era and follows no set disciplines other then to collect whatever catches his/her eye..
I think I saw a new term in the latest 'How to build realistic Layout'! It's called 'Prototype Freelancing'!!! LOL Seriously! It's the only way to go these days especially for modern stuff.
I don't think so.
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5633
-Smoke
Getting into this a bit late.... I don't think anyone's killing the hobby.
Right now, I have a small Penn Central-themed switching layout. It's set in southwestern Pennsylvania. However, it's not really based on one area--I took bits and pieces of various towns and spliced them all together. Originally, I was going to model a 1970s (or even 1980s) version of the Waynesburg & Washington RR. (This was a former PRR narrow-gauge branch that was widened after WWII.) However, by the 1970s, it was mostly abandoned, or absorbed by the Monongahela. I've chosen to model things as they could have been, but under PC instead of Conrail. Because of this, I had to take a few liberties:
1. MGA got rid of their Baldwins in 1974. By '74, only two were still running--the rest had been scrapped. Does that stop me from running them? No. I run them because I like them.
2. The main switching area is a composite of many towns I've driven through. Rather than model things *exactly* I wanted to capture the "feel" of the area. At one time, there were factories and warehouses in both of the W&W's end points. In fact, I've actually modeled a more prosperous area than is reality.
3. Passenger service on the W&W ended in 1929. I have not only two four-car Amtrak trains, but an RDC as well. Totally unprototypical, but I think these trains add to it.
Does any of this lessen my enjoyment? Not really. The reason I'm Proto-lancing, is to leave out some things, I'd miss out. I could have modeled things the way they are, but who wants to model a (mostly) abandoned railroad? I also could have modeled things during the W&W's glory days. However, I have little patience for handlaying track, and there's not much available--even a model of the last W&W steam engine left is well over $200, and that's if you can find one.
My feeling has always been--there's enough things to do in model railroading...that there's something for everyone.
emdgp92 ,There is certainly nothing wrong with that approach.Sounds very believable.
My freelance short line Columbus & Hocking Valley is named after the original C&HV from the 1880s.