OK, part of my research for my new layout, there is a US Highway 10 going across the layout. I thought some grade crossing might look good. However, aren't many complete system in N...you have to get the Circuitron circuitories separate, the Tortoise and then the signals all separate. So if you want a operational set with optical sensors including bells and flashing lights, you are up for something like $150 per grade crossing!
IS THERE ANY POINT?
ARTHILL wrote:Point? They look cool. Only you can decide if they are $125.00 worth of cool.
although I might use crossbucks until I could afford it.
Enjoy
Paul
Good point! LOL
But seriously, though, I thought covert all my turnouts to DCC was a cool thing to do but now I regret spending the money! So just want to see what people do out there...
Plus I think there aren't many modern corssing for N anyway...like those new Walthers overhead ones for HO...
Is there any point? I have one point on my layout where a major boulevard crosses a major railroad line-- both are important-- and no room for grade separation, which real highway department tries to do. I think it will be interest "event" in operating my railroad for crossing gates to operate 10 or 12 times in an operating session. Each mainline train only crosses that point once, and it is an "event". If trains run roundy-round and keep crossing the same crossing every 60 seconds or so, I think the effect would be lost. Possibly even negative. Maybe a couple other points with flashing lights and bell which are sometimes set off by switching...
How much I am willing to spend? Depends. Will NOT be first thing I will install. Probably Bachmann plastic dummies first.
leighant wrote: Is there any point? I have one point on my layout where a major boulevard crosses a major railroad line-- both are important-- and no room for grade separation, which real highway department tries to do. I think it will be interest "event" in operating my railroad for crossing gates to operate 10 or 12 times in an operating session. Each mainline train only crosses that point once, and it is an "event". If trains run roundy-round and keep crossing the same crossing every 60 seconds or so, I think the effect would be lost. Possibly even negative. Maybe a couple other points with flashing lights and bell which are sometimes set off by switching...How much I am willing to spend? Depends. Will NOT be first thing I will install. Probably Bachmann plastic dummies first.
You also have a good point! I had in my on my firt layout...Bachmann operating crossing...every 30 sec, it would dip dip dip and then again and again...LOL
I will have about 20' of mainline on this second one...but just talked to the wife, I was gonna get rid off a single seat sofa taking up valuable space but she won't let me...so might have togo back to the drawing board a bit...LOL
Back to the dumy one, it was fun for a while but then it start to interfere with lighter loco's...so I took it out...this thing just get more interesting and more expensive the deeper you go...theoretically, all Digitrax decoders hae a transponder built in and if you us their system with a transponding block occupancy detector, then you won't need the external detecting electronics, just need thier accessory decoder to drive the flasher and Tortoise. I think NCE also have a similar block setup.
I designed my last layout with detection sections, and am going to do the same with the next one. You don't even need transponding for the Digitrax system, just the block occupancy detectors. My own plan is to install a resistor wheelset in each caboose, so the block is detected as occupied by either the front or back of the train.
To answer your question, there is no point in any of this....other than it provides some level of enjoyment and "we can." Or you can always fall back on the old justification, "it keeps me out of trouble." That's pretty important, because the older I get the more trouble I can get into.
- Mark
Adelie wrote: I designed my last layout with detection sections, and am going to do the same with the next one. You don't even need transponding for the Digitrax system, just the block occupancy detectors. My own plan is to install a resistor wheelset in each caboose, so the block is detected as occupied by either the front or back of the train.To answer your question, there is no point in any of this....other than it provides some level of enjoyment and "we can." Or you can always fall back on the old justification, "it keeps me out of trouble." That's pretty important, because the older I get the more trouble I can get into.
Very true! We can always just have a DC loop on a table top! LOL
May I ask if you are using Digitrax DCC system? Which block detection you use? Circuitron's optical block detection circuit? Digitrax have this new signal decoder that will power 32 signals head or 8 Tortoise with built in block detection, wonder how that would work out with this...the Circuitron system is a completely independant unit I think...with optical sensors but they have a model with logic which will also drive their bells module as well, now that would be cool!
I am not sure to go with Circuitron's independant modules or the Digitrax DCC block detection type...if you are using optical sensor type, how do you hide the optical sensors? Since we want to make it realsitic? ;-)
Right now, mine is in boxes. When I finally get everything unearthed and operational again in some form, I'm using Digitrax for both DCC and block detection. I had not gotten to the point where I was installing or using signals when it had to be broken down for the move.
I have a BDL-168 as an occupancy detector that I did have in use previously, although since I didn't get passed the halfway point it literally did nothing but detect blocks. The plan was/is to SE8Cs for signalling, which sounds like what you are talking about. Again, none of that is free, but the cost per block or signal can get beat down to a reasonable level.
I'll stick with Digitrax's system essentially for simplicity. During construction, all that is needed is to determine the best detection secton length, single-gap the rails for that and wire the occupancy detector between the bus and the gapped rails. It is not even necessary to know exactly where the signals or crossing gates/signals will go at that point. Might just be me, but I'd prefer to contain the control and detection in one system so I can leave open the option of some computer control of trains down the road, if I get ambitous.
Is there any point in spending the rediculas amounts of money on our lauouts that we do?
SURE! We enjoy watching them. I'd have to wait till my lottery #'s came in to spend $150 on a crossing set up. Spending it on a nice new steam loco would more to the point for me.
First of all, you need to ask yourself if your grade crossing would be protected in the real world. Many are not and it has long been that way. The busiest get crossing gates and flashers. Others get just flashers, and lightly traveled crossings get nothing but crossbucks. I don't think any of mine would justify crossing gates. Flashers, maybe. I'll probably start simple and get flashers without automatic detection and just flip them with a toggle. I can retrofit them later. My first priority is finishing my basic scenery. Then I'll think about adding the bells and whistles.
Buy it in stages it is not as painful!
I got my NJ International cross-bucks with LED signals about 4 months ago. I installed them as a static manually operated display for about 2 months. I got the single tortoise and the linkage for the 2nd gate and installed that and ran the gates from a switch for about 2 months. Then I added the control circuit and now have flashing lights and automatic gate functions. Some time in the next couple of months I will add the sound board and speaker and will have virtually completed the system.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I would think it should depend on the size of your layout. If its like mine, a small rural area that is pretty much dead, my single flashing signal is probably a strech. If its a metropolis, crossing gates would be helpful, but for $150? How bout attempting to scratchbuild or kitbash something first? Just my
-beegle55
simon1966 wrote: Buy it in stages it is not as painful!I got my NJ International cross-bucks with LED signals about 4 months ago. I installed them as a static manually operated display for about 2 months. I got the single tortoise and the linkage for the 2nd gate and installed that and ran the gates from a switch for about 2 months. Then I added the control circuit and now have flashing lights and automatic gate functions. Some time in the next couple of months I will add the sound board and speaker and will have virtually completed the system.
Hey, you got a good point! Wife also wouldn't notice the missing $50 bills as much! LOL
But seriously, did you encounter any wiring issues building in stages after the layout is completed?
Iceman_c27 wrote:OK, part of my research for my new layout, there is a US Highway 10 going across the layout. I thought some grade crossing might look good. However, aren't many complete system in N...you have to get the Circuitron circuitories separate, the Tortoise and then the signals all separate. So if you want a operational set with optical sensors including bells and flashing lights, you are up for something like $150 per grade crossing!IS THERE ANY POINT?
That is why I am making grade-separated crossings on my layout :)
(Actually I'm going to have two actual grade crossings...I'm open to having one of them with gates...)
Iceman,
What era do you model? I am guessing a modern era. If you are modeling an earlier era you could just wire them up with a toggle switch, and put up a gate tower and activate them manually. There are probably shortline operations that still use some manually contolled gates.There were alot of the crossing towermen until well in the seventies, sometimes later if the crossing was near a yard throat or elsewhere the traffic pattern made it easier to have a real live human. Your engineer or an assigned tower operator could be the person operating the crossing gates via a toggle on the fascia near the grade crossing.
Dayton and Mad River Railroad
My crossing signals are non-operational. Since my traffic never actually moves, I figure why do I need the lights to flash and bells to ring? These are just "background" things; after all, the trains are the real actors in the play.
My signals are Life-Like Scenemaster items that have been extensively rebuilt.
Colin ---------- There's just no end to cabooseless trains.
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cmurray wrote: My crossing signals are non-operational. Since my traffic never actually moves, I figure why do I need the lights to flash and bells to ring? These are just "background" things; after all, the trains are the real actors in the play.My signals are Life-Like Scenemaster items that have been extensively rebuilt.
Nice picture. Imagine being the driver coming on a situation like this -- the cliff totally hides the oncoming train unitl you are right at the crossing. Even if road traffic was light this would be a prime spot for gates.
Speaking of operating gates -- one of the crossings on my layout was protected by a wig-wag in the era I model. That is going to be some challenge. And some of us remember the crossing protection that involved a yellow STOP sign that turned 90 degrees when a train came.
Dave Nelson
ndbprr wrote:Anthing that adds movement outside the trains adds to the realism. Check out an article in MR in the early 80's by Odegard. he scratchbuilt the gates from brass and drove them with wires from below. That should cut your cost considerably at the cost of time however.
Hi, I think the cost of the signal and gates themselves are relatively cheap...the expensive part is when you want to automate them. Which is the sad part of model railroading I suppose...anything that moves cost money! LOL
But totally agree with you, movements, lights, sound adds realism to any model railroad layout. I have just started reading this Klamblah book called 'Realistic Model Railroad Operations' and it does have a very good point; 'If you build model railroad just to have trains going around, you will get tired of it around about lap number 10 and that's when your layout start to collect dust where as if you build a railroad for ralistic operations, then the layout will lat for a lot more years!'.