I was using simple switches to control turnouts but then I decided to change all 18 turnouts to DCC. OK, the ones uses accessory address is good if you are using routes but otherwise I actually find it more trouble than just using a simple switch. It takes more time to change switch turnouts using DCC than just reach out and flip a simple SPDT switch.
What's your experience and thoughts on this?
I thought about using DCC to control all of my turnouts. Controlling the turnouts from the throttle sounded very appealing. The problem is all of the extra work to just 'throw' the switch, and having to identify the 'numbers'. My layout uses Caboose Industries grond throws, expect for the staging tracks, and 3 turnouts that are not accessable without a 'long' reach.....
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
1. I could never remember the codes for the DCC controller.
2. I like the idea of walking around with the train and doing turnouts as I get to them. That makes me engineer and switchman at the same time. I use caboose for yards, Tortoise with switches for some remote and Humpyard manual levers for other remotes. When I use up my totoises, I will probably go to more Humpyard.
Let us know what you decide and how you like it.
When I first got my DCC system, I thought about it for a while and decided to take a "wait and see" attitude. Then I started running multiple trains. I've got a relatively small layout, 5x12 feet in HO, so multiple trains have numerous opportunities to "interact" with each other. I realized then that it was hard enough to avoid Close Encounters of the Train Kind when running multiple trains from the same throttle, and trying to throw turnouts too would just add to the confusion. My biggest problem is forgetting which loco is selected, and trying to stop one train but instead end up stopping another.
So, I've stuck with my SPDT's, and I'm happy. I think my trains like it better, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I love DCC but I would prefer toggles for turnout control. It's easier and quicker to control.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage wrote: I love DCC but I would prefer toggles for turnout control. It's easier and quicker to control. Tom
See, that's exactly how I feel now I blew hundreds upgrading to DCC...felt that the whole route control thing is a bit overrated. Hmmm...and not to mention all those extra wires everywhere...I think only if you also integrate signal control then may be it might be good...like that huge layout on the other thread where you have a computer controlled signal with a dedicated dispatcher...LOL
Iceman_c27 wrote: See, that's exactly how I feel now I blew hundreds upgrading to DCC...
Well, I wouldn't say it that way. I'm very happy with DCC even though I've chosen to do my turnouts with SPDT switches. The real advantage of DCC is still controlling trains. And once you've got a few sound engines running, and you can make sure your motorists are warned when the engine approaches a crossing, then you'll really understand what DCC can do for you.
Iceman,
That's essentially what I meant by my statement. I have absolutely no regrets switching to DCC. All my present turnouts are manual. But if I did have automated turnouts, I'd still use toggles to control them.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
Iceman_c27 wrote: I was using simple switches to control turnouts but then I decided to change all 18 turnouts to DCC. OK, the ones uses accessory address is good if you are using routes but otherwise I actually find it more trouble than just using a simple switch. It takes more time to change switch turnouts using DCC than just reach out and flip a simple SPDT switch.
My favorite turnout controls are the ones with single push buttons. Each button is positioned on a diagram of the track plan, such that pushing the one button sets all turnouts from end-to-end to get to that track. Our club has one yard with this sort of panel, and that is the yard everyone wants to operate. That is also the yard we start new operators on because it is so easy compared to the other three.
But these panels are only for the major yard operations where it would require one to walk 20 feet to change a turnout. Out on the layout, in the industrial areas the turnouts are all hand thrown.
davidmbedard wrote: SPDT........don't you mean DPDT? How do you hook up a switch machine with a SPDT?
1. Run power to the center pole of the SPDT, and the two connection sides to the motor (one wire would go hot for each direction). Connect the common of the turnout motor to the other side of the power.
2. Run one "polarity" of the power supply (either +/- DC or use a diode for 1/2 wave AC) to each side of the SPDT, and then run the center to the common of the turnout motor. Then run the other side of the power supply to either side of the turnout motor (with appropriate diodes).
Alternate answer - BOTH! I will liely NEVER operate them from the DCC throttle, t's just too cumbersome. But by having a DC accessory decoder actually controllign the turnouts I can se up a dispatcer panel, either building a 'real' one or just having it on the computer screen, with JMRI or other software. But I will also have local pushbuttons on the fascia for control by local crews or just operating with no dispatcher. Turnouts that are never dispatcher controlled will jst have the pushbuttons, and a simpel circuit from Rob Paisley's site. No DCC decoder for those.
I want mostly to keep everything consistent. Not pushbuttons over here because that's a mainline turnout, toggles here because this is a yard, and Caboose ground throws there because that's a seldom-used industry.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
On my layout I am doing the Conrail Lowgrade prototypical layout. So I am using what they did in that time period - ground throws.
I figured that trying to do everything from the keypad was just asking for trouble.
I wanted to make the layout easy to learn and operate from a new visitors standpoint.
The ground throws provided that
Besides wasn't the whole purpose of having DCC to make the system easy to wire! It doesn't seem that way if I have to run hundreds of wires and have to spend time programming more things that will eventually need to be reprogrammed again and a again.
Remember the thing is keep the layout simple to operate and the maintenance to a minimum as in ZERO maintenance.
Once the hand throw is installed properly there is no maintenance.
But there seems to have been a number of threads stating the maintenance problems with layouts and this is one of those items (turnouts controlled by machings) that seems to be a problem area. And the precieved idea is that the larger the layout the more maintenance there is.
Only if you have not installed the track, turnouts, switch controllers properly will you have problems.
Speaking from experience here!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
davidmbedard wrote: Ah...the 'toy train' hook up.......Sorry.....I use tortioses and they require DPDT.
Iceman_c27 wrote: I was using simple switches to control turnouts but then I decided to change all 18 turnouts to DCC. OK, the ones uses accessory address is good if you are using routes but otherwise I actually find it more trouble than just using a simple switch. It takes more time to change switch turnouts using DCC than just reach out and flip a simple SPDT switch.What's your experience and thoughts on this?
This is exactly the reason I have chosen to remain with old fashioned Atlas turnout controls which are fascia mounted around the layout. It seems far simpler to me to just push a button on the control panels than to punch in a new address to do the same thing. I would also have to remember the address of each turnout. I still have to know which machine controls which turnout but it is much easier to do when the control box is mounted near the turnout it controls. I also have some turnouts powered in pairs, such as on a crossover, so that one control box controls both turnouts. I have read that some stationary decoders could not handle the power draw from two switch motors. I don't know how true that is but why add one more thing to worry about.
On our Club's Layout (Ohio Valley Lines; Ambridge, PA) we use all methods. Most of the turnouts are operated by 'Torti' aligned by electrical switches. Selected few on the mainline have the Torti operated by our DCC (Digitrax) system. Other areas easily accessible from the aisles use Ground Throws.
Personally, I do not care for DCC operation of the turnouts. I have to take my attention off operating and focus on track alignment. Isn't that the Dispatcher's job? Further, what the heck do 'closed' and 'thrown' mean in Digitrax parlance? Sounds like electrical engineers got into the mix and decided how to describe switch point alignment. I thought turnouts were either 'normal' or 'reverse.' That makes sence to me. Ah, well. I'm complaining to the wind.
You pick the method or operating your turnouts (and your layout) which best fits your method of operation, budget, and ability to deal with all the electronics today! However, I will add that all its complexities aside, DCC is the abso-bally-lutely way to operate your railroad!! Kick my teeth in, I ain't goin' back!! But always, HAVE FUN!!
Doug Reynolds
Well DCC turnout control really works for me. I operate solo so no matter where I'm at, be it at my control panel (computer screen) or walking around the layout, I can throw any of them anywhere. If I'm running a couple of trains and want to change the route of one at the other end of the layout I can do it from my throttle. Or, for turnouts right in front of me I can also throw them manually if I want to.
When at the computer, I can operate them individually or set routes. With one mouse click I can throw a whole string of switches.
With 22 turnouts it's not hard to remember all of their addresses and it's not hard for me using the Lenz LH100 throttle. If you doing a lot of switching, you can stay in turnout control mode, which saves a lot of key strokes and you can still run the speed and direction of your loco. I'm even getting pretty good at it with my LH90 engineer's throttle and my cordless phone.
I have to admit I guess I just like the technology!
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
I built the first half of my layout before I had DCC and used toggle switches with the Tortoises. However, the second half of the layout has a complicated yard so I decided to try the Digitrax DS64s with local routes. I made a cheat sheet (that I plan to laminate one day) that makes it real easy to remember the routes and switch numbers.
The green R numbers are the routes. The code is simply R is for route, 301 would be DS64 number 3 local route number 1 and the T or C would mean thrown or closed. The yellow S numbers are for activating the switches directly. I haven't found the need to address them directly yet. I also have the DT400 throttle which makes it very easy to go back and forth (either across knobs or on the same knob) between switches and locomotive control.
I wasn't sure I'd like DCC control but after having both, I won't go back. Obviously for very simple configurations, you can't get more simple than a toggle switch but if you ever want automated operations with computer control, DCC control is almost a must.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Well, seeing as I have a Bachmann E-Z track equipped layout, I thought, "Why not use Bachmann E-Z track turnouts?"
My E-Z turnouts (number 6s, by the way) have a switch machine built right into the roadbed, and come with a green wire (goes from the turnout to the controller), a controller (basic black box with a direction switch), and a red terminal wire (goes from the controller to an old DC powerpack and hooks into the AC accessory outlet). I am very happy with this setup, and I don't mind the SNAP! too much. Hopefully, someday I might switch from using the little black boxes that came with the turnouts to a full working CTC board.
I mean, sure, E-Z track isn't the most realistic stuff out there, but I'm not patient enough for your standard flex track, cork roadbed and ballast setup. It really doesn't look that bad on my layout, actually.
-Brandon