BLI in Trouble?

[davekelly]

Even today it's very difficult to enter a super center and get out of the store with just the specific items stated on the mission objectives.

Try going to the LHS after moving from a place where the nearest train store was a 6 hour drive (lived there 12 years) for a bottle of grimy black paint.  I won't tell you how much that bottle of Floquil cost me :)

[twhite]

Just a thought: 

Y'know, modeling steam locomotives is a pretty tricky business.  When they were built by a certain manufacturer for the real railroads, the locos were designed for that particular railroads specifications and needs.  It's not like EMD or GE these days, where the put out a particular model and tell the railroads: "Here it is, buy it or don't." 

Back when, you could tell, say, an Alco 4-6-4 for the New York Central right off the bat.  It certainly didn't look like a 4-6-4 built for the Milwaukee, or the Santa Fe or the New Haven, because each of these Hudsons had their own distinctive styling and their own distinctive uses on the particular railroad. 

It's tough for a model maker to decide to make specific steamers for specific railroads, because they're always going to come up short, no matter how authentic they try.  Okay, Heritage and Spectrum (for example) can come up with a USRA steamer and be fairly safe, because they probably expect that the expert modeler is going to adapt their basic model to his railroad with super-detailing and castings.  But if you're going to make a SPECIFIC locomotive for a SPECIFIC railroad, you're almost always going to get into a heap of trouble.  Take the Santa Fe 3751 4-8-4 as built by BLI.  It's a darned good loco, sounds well, pulls well, runs smoothly (though it's a real track-tester) and it's handsome to boot.  Well, BLI decided to release the 'rebuilt' version instead of the original, which means larger drivers, single--instead of the standard ATSF double-- sand-dome and Worthington (instead of the old ATSF standby Elesco) feedwater heater.  A lot of modelers were very happy (me for one) and a lot of modelers weren't so happy.   They wanted the original 1927 version, which I have to admit, was also a very handsome loco and I wouldn't have minded at all, either. 

Same thing with the SP AC-4/5 Cab-forward 4-8-8-2.  I live in SP territory, a lot of people I talked to wished that BLI had released an AC-6 or above (without the BL Feedwater heater and the pumps on the boiler front--back?--) which were far more common and numerous.  But BLI released a nicely detailed loco that pulled like a team of horses.  Myself, I had several other AC articulateds and it was nice to have a version of the very first 4-8-8-2's. 

Now, say, BLI or Genesis or PCM decides to put out a Missabe M-3/4 2-8-8-4.  I know a lot of modelers who will flock to their LHS to get one, but will they be happy?  Suppose the only model available has a Worthington instead of an Elesco FWH system (Baldwin built the locos with both, seemingly without any particular priority).  Are we going to get grousing over that? 

When you take specific steam locos for specific railroads from specific builders, you're just going to run into problems.  It's either right for one modeler, or incredibly WRONG for the next. 
Steam locos were NEVER the same, even those in a particular run for a particular railroad. 
The railroad got ahold of them and did whatever adjustments they thought proper for the particular ENGINE, not the entire lot of them.  That's the way it worked back then. 

Ever try to convert an Alco UP Challenger into an NP Z-8?  Or a Rio Grande (Baldwin) L-105?  Well, I suppose you can do it, but you have to start from the ground up.  That's always been a problem with steam models that are relatively mass-produced. 

At least BLI and PCM are out there trying.  And if they over-produce some models--it's the shakes of the business.  I suppose that they found out that the Pennsy T-1 was not the best investment (though I've read threads on people looking for them), just like Heritage found out that not every USRA 2-8-8-2 looked like an N&W Y-3.   Or that BLI found out that every 2-10-4 wasn't built for the Pennsy or the C&O. 

They're modeling locos that were heretofore only available in rather expensive brass imports.  Maybe their Blue Line or their USRA models will help ease up the problem, IF THERE REALLY IS ONE.  In the meantime, I'm looking forward to seeing what their AC-12 Cab Forwards or their GS-4's are going to be like, and I'm hoping that their future releases can fill the same void as their past ones seemed to. 

Ever priced a PSC brass M-4 Yellowstone lately?   Even used, the price makes you gasp!  And PSC puts out some of the most gorgeous, smooth running and powerful brass locos I've ever seen (or owned).   With all due respect to PSC, I'd bite for a BLI 2-8-8-4 any day of the week.  Assuming, of course, they recorded the 'talking pumps' for their sound modules, LOL!

I wish them well.  Like any relatively new company, it takes time to judge the market, model railroading or otherwise.

Tom      

 

 

[davekelly]

Tom,

Some excellent points.  It must takes nerves of steel to enter into the model steam locomotive market these days.  No longer, in many cases, will a generic loco do (aka the old mantua mikado).  I would almost guess that the same is true of diesels (dynamic or nondynamic, type of pilot, phase I or phase IIa?).  I would also venture that it is pretty tricky to balance level of detail versus price (is that one extra thing worth another dollar of selling price?).

Of course in my perfect world the result would be something offered at every price point.  Would be interseting to visit this thread (and others like it) in about 5 years.  Hopefully we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

[rrebell]

Perhaps instead of taxes, we should move to a "pay as you go" system.  House being robbed and you need to call 911?  "Please enter your credit card number followed by a pound sign in order to be connected to the police department."  Could save money at the grocercy store too.  Perhaps a discount for food items produced in plants not inspected by fed and state agencies.  But i digress.

I don't think BLI is in trouble.  Maybe not doing as good as they thought they would - sure.  Fire saling the last of an inventory run does not necessariloy mean there's no profit.  There may not be profit in the last T1 sold, but the T1 line as a whole may have done very very well.  Cash gathered now through offering some items at below cost may be "cheaper" than obtaining a loan to make more product.  There are literrally endless scenariosin which it may make fiscal sense to sell some inventory at less than cost.  My ex father in law used to call Wal-mart stupid for seeling motor oil below cost as he stood in line with about $200 of other things that he didn't even need but saw when walking to and from the motor oil aisle.  Just a thought.

 

I have been into a situation where property was burning and people hurt on the interstate and actually recieved a recording asking me to hold for the next availible operator when dailing 911. It's a horrible feeling.

I think your Ex Father In Law was a victim of silent marketing, stores placing common items way in the back like Milk and eggs and make you walk past lots of appealing items to get there.

We had a bad walmart problem ourselves for a time too. I think the monthly outflow to walmart was in the hundreds of dollars at times. We did stop the bleeding and only go for specific items written on a peice of paper when we need it.

Even today it's very difficult to enter a super center and get out of the store with just the specific items stated on the mission objectives.

It is tough to see items priced below cost makes you wonder if you can some how pick up those items and incorperate them into a business but I think that will be something I rather not visit on this thread.

Its hard to say if something is sold below cost because of rebates to sellers, example when I worked for home depot we were selling an item, first at retail, then discount after discount and as I had a screen that told of cost, one it go below that I asked a higher up why we keep ordering an item we were selling below cost, he said that the $ were store cost but corp was do a big refund cheak for item because of volume, same way as car dealers show you cost but that is only if you sell x # of items, alot different when you move a lot more stuff, big refunds.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps instead of taxes, we should move to a "pay as you go" system.  House being robbed and you need to call 911?  "Please enter your credit card number followed by a pound sign in order to be connected to the police department."  Could save money at the grocercy store too.  Perhaps a discount for food items produced in plants not inspected by fed and state agencies.  But i digress.

I don't think BLI is in trouble.  Maybe not doing as good as they thought they would - sure.  Fire saling the last of an inventory run does not necessariloy mean there's no profit.  There may not be profit in the last T1 sold, but the T1 line as a whole may have done very very well.  Cash gathered now through offering some items at below cost may be "cheaper" than obtaining a loan to make more product.  There are literrally endless scenariosin which it may make fiscal sense to sell some inventory at less than cost.  My ex father in law used to call Wal-mart stupid for seeling motor oil below cost as he stood in line with about $200 of other things that he didn't even need but saw when walking to and from the motor oil aisle.  Just a thought.

 

I have been into a situation where property was burning and people hurt on the interstate and actually recieved a recording asking me to hold for the next availible operator when dailing 911. It's a horrible feeling.

I think your Ex Father In Law was a victim of silent marketing, stores placing common items way in the back like Milk and eggs and make you walk past lots of appealing items to get there.

We had a bad walmart problem ourselves for a time too. I think the monthly outflow to walmart was in the hundreds of dollars at times. We did stop the bleeding and only go for specific items written on a peice of paper when we need it.

Even today it's very difficult to enter a super center and get out of the store with just the specific items stated on the mission objectives.

It is tough to see items priced below cost makes you wonder if you can some how pick up those items and incorperate them into a business but I think that will be something I rather not visit on this thread.

Its hard to say if something is sold below cost because of rebates to sellers, example when I worked for home depot we were selling an item, first at retail, then discount after discount and as I had a screen that told of cost, one it go below that I asked a higher up why we keep ordering an item we were selling below cost, he said that the $ were store cost but corp was do a big refund cheak for item because of volume, same way as car dealers show you cost but that is only if you sell x # of items, alot different when you move a lot more stuff, big refunds.

Sometimes retailers take a hit or a loss on a sale item to get people inside the store with a carefully trained and deployed sales force hunting down the victims like sharks. I go there to get a box of nails and get peppered with expensive questions like "Sir have you heard about our power tools to go with those nails?" Walking out with just a box of nails on sale is worth it sometimes.

When I visit a Hobby Shop I see an item and there is the price after a discount. I can decide to buy it, order it or not. No pressure, no worries except availibility.

If we started to buy engines with rebates like cars... let's not go there. Im thinking 12% interest over 60 months or some such.

Regardless of who makes HO scale steam, be it BLI or some other company we have yet to hear about in the future, the final test is the ability to pull a proper train up a certain grade in my home. That is what seperates the keepers from those that get resold. I have had it with the crappy trainset steam that cannot do anything years ago and refuse to accept substandard performance today with HO steam.