A friend in the club I'm in said that he'd heard that BLI may be in trouble. Not trying to start a rumor here but has anyone else heard this? I haven't and with what seems to be a fairly popular brand, I'm sceptical of this information.
Rick
BLI and any importer of Chinese stuff may need to take a look at their finances carefully. Exchange rates with China have been an issue with folks in DC. I believe costs for Chinese stuff may already be on the rise. Look at P2K prices following Walthers acquisition of Life Like. I have no inside info, but I suspect the party is over for really cheap stuff from China.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
First, I have absolutely NO indication BLI and or PCM is about to go into bankruptcy, or that they are in any financial difficulties of any kind. This is just a general observation. Keep in mind that bankruptcy in this country is a legal and financial strategy, and often has little to do with ACTUAL company performance.
Example: You have an LLC. While paying principle officers' (who are also usually owners/shareholders) salaries of over $2 million, the business "loses" over $1 million. They declare bankruptcy, possibly getting out of union AND business contracts, and retirement obligations, and defaulting on debts, and later "emerge" from bankruptcy with a whole lot less debt load, less overhead burdens, and the same "management", still pulling down the big bucks. Ain't life grand !?
Virginian wrote: First, I have absolutely NO indication BLI and or PCM is about to go into bankruptcy, or that they are in any financial difficulties of any kind. This is just a general observation. Keep in mind that bankruptcy in this country is a legal and financial strategy, and often has little to do with ACTUAL company performance.Example: You have an LLC. While paying principle officers' (who are also usually owners/shareholders) salaries of over $2 million, the business "loses" over $1 million. They declare bankruptcy, possibly getting out of union AND business contracts, and retirement obligations, and defaulting on debts, and later "emerge" from bankruptcy with a whole lot less debt load, less overhead burdens, and the same "management", still pulling down the big bucks. Ain't life grand !?
Well, there's a bit more to it. For instance, we shouldn't forget the dozens of households who work for the firm for much less, but who can now continue to pay their mortgages, send their kids to good schools, replace their beater, help pay for Grandma's knee surgery.....
RedGrey62 wrote: A friend in the club I'm in said that he'd heard that BLI may be in trouble. Not trying to start a rumor here but has anyone else heard this? I haven't and with what seems to be a fairly popular brand, I'm sceptical of this information.Rick
BLI has had at least two major fire sales to blow out products when the stock was not moving and money was probably tight. They have been blowing out products again since Christmas with FDT and continue to offer models that are overstocked at extrememy low prices.
The latest Blow outs are fairly large and must be to raise money like before. I certainly hope they continue to bring us great products, but maybe not so fast. Most of us can't purchase everything we want when various new models come in every month.
It would seem with all of their new products in the past five years, they would get it together and continue of offer us great models for many years.
I would like to point out their new Blue Line Product line just recently announced. It is low cost and should make them a lot of money if we like them.
Virginian,
Good thing Congress cracked down on personal bankruptcies recently. Who says those campaign contributions from the banking industry don't buy access and redress the wrongs plaguing America?
As any recently arrived immigrant will confirm. "America, a great country."
Jon
RedGray62,
Had a conversation with owner of BLI this past weekend at Big-E show in West Springfield, MA. He seemed quite upbeat. Their display stand included BLI, PCM and FDT.They're introducing new models: brass Cab Forward in G-scale(Bloody thing is huge. Example was on display. Very nice.), New Haven I5 in brass and brass hybrid(on display), new product line "The BlueLine" with proprietary sound system.(also on display) They have previously announced new Hudsons with Scullin drivers, a Dreyfus Hudson.
The owner noted that competition is increasing and BLI is responding to it by refining their business model and innovating as in the BlueLine product line introduction. They like some of their peer corporations(Atlas and InterMountain come to mind) are moving to a reservation/limited production run model that will give a more accurate reading of what offering will succeed and what will not. In this model once you get enough reservations to cover costs plus profit you produce enough to cover reservations plus an increment to cover demand that may be untapped by reservations. Not perfect but better than blindly producing a model and hoping it will be successful. The BlueLine with its proprietary sound system reduces costs by eliminating what BLI characterizes as high licensing fees to use QSI and LokSound systems in their BLI and PCM lines respectively.
For several years BLI has been soliciting input from modelers as to what they want produced. With the move to reservation/limited production runs modelers will still have input as to what is produced but reservations system will act as a check to what the customer wishes for and what the customer will actually buy in sufficient numbers to be profitable.
Does any of this resolve the question raised by your club member friend of trouble at BLI? No. But it does indicate a company that is looking forward rather than one looking over its shoulder.
Well, I used a little bit of credit to make the engine purchase happen. The actual funds is ready to go in the account and will be transferred to pay off the credit bill without one penny of interest paid. That makes me what Credit Card Companies like to call "Deadbeats" Customers who use credit and pay off in full before the grace runs out and interest gets charged. But Credit Cards are useful in a Internet Situation where you need to make the sale happen very quickly or someone else will get the goods before you do.
I hear Congress is fixing to run a bill to enforce credit card holders to have a fee imposed. In this case of the T1 purchase it was availible and shipped very quickly. Where did the engine or other 4 copies come from? Returns?, Warranty problems? Other types of returns? Who knows?
The recent experience with Broadway on this particular purchase hardly indicates a company teetering on the bankruptcy. I recall 4 seperate employees were involved in my particular sale alone either by phone or email. Hardly a bankrupt company.
If China says the US Dollar is no good inside thier lands and impose thier own Money, it would make things very expensive in a hurry. That is one reason why I say: Why bother having stuff made over there and shipped here? China would like to keep spending on the 20 dollar walmart toaster to be built but rake in 100 dollars income each. That will enrich them very quickly.
To say a company is bankrupt such as Broadway is rumor.
Why?
I point to Riverossi. They had ads everywhere and everyone was in a race-horse lather all over the new 2-6-6-6. Ebay bidding went nutz on these units and ferociously defended the 350- mark and in some cases who had the most money wins. One day the sun came up and we all heard the word: Riverossi is KAPUT. Finished. That is that folks.
Would Broadway see the same fate? Who knows? I do notice that when they first started to produce HO engines and established a website, they would update the thing VERY VERY often. Suddenly engines no longer in production such as the T1 Duplex sits on the website now for months and months. No one takes the time to update.
Instead they choose to create splashy catalogs and update the front pages of websites to indicate the new Blue Line product or the latest offering by FDT or PCM. Those old engines .. oh those? Sorry not availible. We encourage you to pre-order with the knowledge that the product MAY NOT BE produced should there be not enough demand.
Obviously that means BLI is being agile enough to put the money into production of items that will make them a profit. I think it is outstanding and applaud them for it. But the CUSTOMER.... he aint going to be happy. he is not agile. he is not full of money. He or she might have a credit card debt (Sure! You can buy groceries with that credit card... dont worry about that paycheck that got spent last week) or a mortage.
Does this mean the company is quietly donning life vests and getting off the titanic on a lifeboat? Who knows?
I fear that going with BLI Blueline, PCM Loksound and upcoming engines in BRASS no less.... I think Broadway is on it's way to bankrupcy very quickly. Do they want to sink the plastic business and get all into brass? Possibly. In fact, I think they might actually become the next OMI, Overland or Pacific Importers of Brass before we know it everything will cost 5000 dollars have Smithsonian Class Features and only go to the truely rich who has the funds to drop literally upon demand. Leave us working stiffs off the departing train of pre-orders.
IF all the HO scale manufactors followed BLI's lead and started to produce everything that modelers could want complete with very high quality dual mode decoders, sound and decent detailing as well as performing good on 3% grades with nice rolling stock to match... BLI might find themselves with nothing to do. Except go into Brass.
I think that after this years crop of engines in plastic are finished and shipped out I bet we are going to see them continue into Brass and continue into specialty rolling stock sets that no one else is producing at the moment. They are probably going to be on a collision course with Rapido before too long.
I am seeing incredible numbers of product being moved to meet the surge in customer demand. Yes there were 5 BLI Duplex T1's sold this week, but keep in mind that last summer there must have been dozens gathering dust.
Look at the PCM Y6b's They blew out at 400 dollars apeice. They retail at what? 750? With no need to pay taxes it is very good for the 400 dollars. Im half tempted to get a copy myself. Look at the 2-6-6-4. They are still availible. Will they continue to be availible? Who knows?
If QSI says good riddiance to BLI and shifts thier business to producing QSI engines for everyone such as IHC for a good price... BLI is going to have to show horsepower to keep up. When everyone says good riddiance to QSI's license fees I think it's QSI who will go bankrupt first. Espeically when everyone thinks that they can build thier own sound systems cheaper.
I see this entire HO Scale Engine market in a state of war. Those models with good quality sound, pulling power and other things demanded by customers will sell. The rest.. well they become test-beds for decoder/speaker installs and eventually get produced with DCC and SOund ready to go.
10 years from now we will point out the Analog power pack in a museum and tell our children that is how daddy ran trains. Then all will be DCC and Sound.
Would Broadway be bankrupt? No. I see them going totally into brass once they finish the current crop of Plastic engines. No need to deal with uncertainty among the great unwashed masses who are trying to juggle a mortage, credit debt and working 3 jobs to afford enough to get to the end of the month at 6.00 an hour. Oh no. Let's go brass. There are plenty of people willing to drop a few thousand without any trouble who wont be caught dead with a plastic engine in the roundhouse.
I do think that all of these engines being returned must be a little bit of thunder on the horizion. (Not Horizion Hobbies) suppose these 300 dollar engines arrive very quickly at the Hobby Shop and the customer decided that he or she does not want them after all? Back they go. That cannot be sustained very long without Hobby Shops taking a hard stand and maybe say: You order it: You buy it. Because maybe BLI or another company might tell the stores STOP returning product.
Last year I did about 200 dollars worth of rolling stock business. That happened in about May-July Time period. All of them were limited run, pre-orders, Deadline orders or some form of restricted orders. If you dont order, you dont get it. Late November to Early Janurary All of the product arrived to both of my stores VERY quickly. it was a challenge to cover the costs of all of those deliveries that just arrived but was not too hard considering I planned these purchases 6 months in advance.
After that, I decided that I am done with the rolling stock pre-orders. I am focusing on the occasional replacement purchase, new item purchase, supplies and structures etc. I will still visit the Hobby Shop and browse the store and perhaps drop a few dollars once a month that will never stop. But what is on the shelf is what will be considered. Not some fancy dancy limited run pre-order widget that requires a Certificate of Deposit wired to the factory before they will actually make the thing.
That will probably make the hobby shop happy knowing that I am still a customer very much into the hobby and participating in the monthly needs of my trains stuff at the house. A box of 148 kaydees? S
Nataraj wrote:Does factory direct trains sell at MSRP or at a sale price??
Sale. The PCM's Y6b is retail close to 750 before taxes (About 10% in my state) the FDT will offer you a copy at just under 400 dollars. Once our dear Uncle Sam awakens from his Pre WW2 tax laws and understands just how much non-taxed commerce is occuring on-line in the USA we might all be made to be actually paying taxes online.
Safety Valve wrote: Nataraj wrote:Does factory direct trains sell at MSRP or at a sale price??Sale. The PCM's Y6b is retail close to 750 before taxes (About 10% in my state) the FDT will offer you a copy at just under 400 dollars. Once our dear Uncle Sam awakens from his Pre WW2 tax laws and understands just how much non-taxed commerce is occuring on-line in the USA we might all be made to be actually paying taxes online.
I hope BLI & PCM will continue delivering such great models as the Big Boy, ALCO FA's... etc.
I'm sure that for producing you need to calculate exactly and I think it's only normal that BLI (but also others like Atlas) needs a certain amount of pre-orders to get a project going.
Best Example is the just released PCM ALCO FA/FB which was a little behind schedule but it's a wonderful model and the DCC/Sound version is already sold out and very hard to find at stores.Those who pre-ordered did get their models and the rest is practically forced to hunt down these engines.
I always pre-order and have currently dozens of stuff pre-ordered (E8;E7;F3;F7;Cab Forward...) but don't need them to arrive at the announced date. So what if it takes a year more? As long as they are done I'm already happy.
The more a manufacturer announces the better the chance that he will hit a jackpot and if one model gets a huge amount of orders it may also push along some other models as well.
Ex: I pre-ordered the BLI NYC 20th Century Limited Hudson only because they mentioned that they will release the Passenger cars as well. Now I hope that annoncement will happen soon.
Conclusion: I hope that BLI will continue for a long time and every company has its bad times and good times now just let's hope that the good times are back at BLI.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
A few months ago we were talking about Lionel's decision to put train sets on the shelves at Target. What happened to those?
Well, a friend went there to look at one after Christmas for her kids. Right after the holiday, Target put them on sale - about 70% off, as I recall. The shelves emptied quickly, and she was out of luck by a day or two.
Is Lionel in trouble because they're moving product at a discount? How about Target? No, I think this is just smart inventory management. Those BLI Hudsons, DCC and Sound, have been on sale at Trainworld for months now. Also remember that the market, particularly for sound-equipped engines, is changing rapidly with the introduction of newer, better and cheaper decoders, and many more factory-sound engines at good prices. The older models will sit on the shelves for a long time if companies keep selling them at MSRP, so the well-run businesses like BLI and Walthers are giving us all a break and doing themselves a favor at the same time.
Yeah, life is good. But, like others on the forum have mentioned, when you see something in model railroading that you like, better grab it now because it might be gone tomorrow.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Is BLI/FDT having financial problems right now? If you go by what some hobby wholesalers are saying...the answer is yes. Stay tuned, odds are there are going to be a number of significant changes in the manufacturers over the next 18 months.
CNJ831
Safety Valve,
Sales tax about 10% in your state? Do you have a state income tax? If so, time to start organizing a tax rebellion! Throw the rascals out.
Unfortunately Uncle Sam is all too aware of what magnitude of on-line commerce is going on. States are also aware of "missed sales tax revenues" due to on-line purchases. It's only a matter of time before both impose a process to track and collect taxes on such transactions. If there's one constant lust in a politician's heart it is the lust to forever have the government hand in your wallet.
The folks in D.C. have never rescinded some of the taxes imposed during WWII. Check out the sticker on new automobiles-the fed tax goes back to WWII. That bad guy Nixon rescinded the fed tax on autos for a short time in '73 as a means to improve U.S. economic performance. When it comes to taxes Uncle Sam has short term memory loss; what was a temporary stop gap tax more often than not becomes a permanent fixture in the country's tax code.
Consider the after tax dollars you spend on model railroad product: if you tucked some money into an account bearing interest you pay tax on the interest earned. Huh? I already paid tax on my gross earnings, now you're going to tax what I earn on what's left? Yes we are! The state you live in will impose a sales tax on top of that interest if you spend it(the interest) on a taxable item. What are taxable items? It would probably be easier to answer what is not a taxable item. The tax on interest earned on savings accounts was imposed during one of President Eisenhower's terms(the first I think). When Eisenhower ran for President the campaign slogan was "I Like Ike". After filing their first returns with a line for savings interest earned it may have occurred to some citizens that the campaign slogan should be adjusted to "I Like Ike, but not as much as I used to". Point being once the tax is imposed it never goes away. You earn it, they spend it. End of
Sadly, the politicians have not yet figured out the role high taxes play sending US jobs outside our borders. So, I'm glad to have a hobby to keep my mind off of the politicians.
I hope BLI produces one of my favorite locomotives some day.
wjstix wrote:I'd guess part of the reason for the BLI 'fire sale' is that they did pick some kinda limited-interest items to produce. There are only so many UP or N&W steam fans out there afterall. They seem to be coming out now with more USRA engines that could be used for a number of railroads (and by free-lancers).
You have a very good point about how many modelers would buy just any N&W steam. I have severa copies of the J, and purchased both the A and Y6b with sound. I don't model the N&W, but stood at trackside on vacation for several days in Roanoke back in the summer of 1956.
I had to have the models since they are very impressive to me, but they did not sell as well as BLI/PCM had hoped.
The USRA Y3 version that P2K imported was sold to several other railroads during WWII and the modle of the Y3 probably sold better than the great Y6B. The Y6b was never sold to any other railroads and is N&W only.
There are those that don't like BLI's locomotives because they are not 100% accurate.There are those that complained about the various issues with their BLI locomotives QC problems..
However,BLI seems to be a strong company that is still in the business of producing locomotives including their new "Blue Line" of DC sound equipped locomotives.
I would pay no heed to such "club house" rumors after all after the death of Irv Athearn Athearn was going to "closed its doors" so the rumor went...Atlas was going to stop making any HO and specialize in N Scale..That one dates back to the 60s when Atlas started importing N Scale.Then the newest rumor "Athearn no longer produces BB car kits"..And so the rumor mill goes on and on and on and----.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
doc manago wrote:Bob, did you hear the bell of the Galloping Goose? I think that is the best in the market, and the whole sound is excellent. Bye
I sure did hear the bell sound, and the wirring of the starter as the truck motor starts, the two horns too. Love it! I placed a video on YouTube of my first Goose when I first got it, the bell is only on near the end. Wish I would have known at the time if you turn the power off quickly, the unit glides to a stop with brakes squealing! Neat.
Here's my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRK5h7AdDrs
BRAKIE wrote:Does it change gears or just sputter along?
It goes trough four gears as the speed increases. Also when you stop then start again, you can here the motor revving and the transmission being put in gear!
Perhaps instead of taxes, we should move to a "pay as you go" system. House being robbed and you need to call 911? "Please enter your credit card number followed by a pound sign in order to be connected to the police department." Could save money at the grocercy store too. Perhaps a discount for food items produced in plants not inspected by fed and state agencies. But i digress.
I don't think BLI is in trouble. Maybe not doing as good as they thought they would - sure. Fire saling the last of an inventory run does not necessariloy mean there's no profit. There may not be profit in the last T1 sold, but the T1 line as a whole may have done very very well. Cash gathered now through offering some items at below cost may be "cheaper" than obtaining a loan to make more product. There are literrally endless scenariosin which it may make fiscal sense to sell some inventory at less than cost. My ex father in law used to call Wal-mart stupid for seeling motor oil below cost as he stood in line with about $200 of other things that he didn't even need but saw when walking to and from the motor oil aisle. Just a thought.
davekelly wrote: Perhaps instead of taxes, we should move to a "pay as you go" system. House being robbed and you need to call 911? "Please enter your credit card number followed by a pound sign in order to be connected to the police department." Could save money at the grocercy store too. Perhaps a discount for food items produced in plants not inspected by fed and state agencies. But i digress.I don't think BLI is in trouble. Maybe not doing as good as they thought they would - sure. Fire saling the last of an inventory run does not necessariloy mean there's no profit. There may not be profit in the last T1 sold, but the T1 line as a whole may have done very very well. Cash gathered now through offering some items at below cost may be "cheaper" than obtaining a loan to make more product. There are literrally endless scenariosin which it may make fiscal sense to sell some inventory at less than cost. My ex father in law used to call Wal-mart stupid for seeling motor oil below cost as he stood in line with about $200 of other things that he didn't even need but saw when walking to and from the motor oil aisle. Just a thought.
I have been into a situation where property was burning and people hurt on the interstate and actually recieved a recording asking me to hold for the next availible operator when dailing 911. It's a horrible feeling.
I think your Ex Father In Law was a victim of silent marketing, stores placing common items way in the back like Milk and eggs and make you walk past lots of appealing items to get there.
We had a bad walmart problem ourselves for a time too. I think the monthly outflow to walmart was in the hundreds of dollars at times. We did stop the bleeding and only go for specific items written on a peice of paper when we need it.
Even today it's very difficult to enter a super center and get out of the store with just the specific items stated on the mission objectives.
It is tough to see items priced below cost makes you wonder if you can some how pick up those items and incorperate them into a business but I think that will be something I rather not visit on this thread.