BLI is bringing in a new sound system. I hope they are not dropping QSI as one of their sound systems.
Please check out the web page and comment on what they are doing.
Broadway Limited Imports is proud to introduce the new BlueLine series of value-enhanced DC sound-equipped products. Since the time we pioneered mass-produced HO scale sound-equipped locomotives nearly five years ago, many technological advances have allowed us to significantly reduce the cost associated with building a quality sound-equipped model. Now, with the BlueLine, model railroaders will find good detail and running qualities coupled with a state-of-the-art DC sound system that is DCC Ready-All at significantly lower prices. The BlueLine was designed with today's value-conscious modeler in mind.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/
Yes, I saw that announcement in Railroad Model Craftsman magazine. Notice that these engines are NOT DCC equipped -- just sound equipped and DCC Ready.
BLI has apparently developed their own sound system for these engines, because they do not mention QSI at all.
cacole wrote: Yes, I saw that announcement in Railroad Model Craftsman magazine. Notice that these engines are NOT DCC equipped -- just sound equipped and DCC Ready.BLI has apparently developed their own sound system for these engines, because they do not mention QSI at all.
The new models are less money too, but as you said, they are missing the DCC. QSI has done a decent job of getting the whistles fairly close to the prototype in most of my BLI models, unlike the recent PCM Big Boy sounds. I would hope they do as good a job with their choice of sounds for the new system.
They also talk about the five years they have been doing sound and I would translate that statement to mean, the five year contract with QSI is up soon and they are going to change to inhouse sound.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Well they still have a page on the QSI system, so I suspect the BlueLine will be the only line using their new system. I guess we'll have to wait and see (or hear) how it sounds. QSI is very very good but still not perfect, could be the new system will be better, who knows??
I guess I don't mind having to put my own decoder in an engine that's coming with sound, and for me I don't mind having control over just the bell and whistle (though the "speed-is-XXX" thing is pretty neat on QSI engines) with the rest being automatic. I don't need to be able to press F24 to hear the fireman belch or something.
Here's a write up on it that I just found on Tony's Train Exchange web site:
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2007/011807.htm
It almost sounds like the BlueLine series will be comparable in detail to the Atlas Trainman and old LL Proto 1000 locomotives.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The Broadway Limited advertisement on page 18 of the February 2007 Railroad Model Craftsman gives a retail price of $169.99 for a BlueLine HO sound equipped GE AC6000.
The Broadway Limited advertisement on page 31 of the February 2007 issue of Model Railroader magazine is for a Precision Craft N&W HO Y6B 2-8-8-2 with the LokSound decoder from Germany.
That blurb on Tony's web site is basically the advertisement that is in RMC magazine.
tstage wrote: Here's a write up on it that I just found on Tony's Train Exchange web site:http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2007/011807.htmIt almost sounds like the Blueline series will be comparable in detail to the Atlas Trainman and old LL Proto 1000 locomotives.Tom
It almost sounds like the Blueline series will be comparable in detail to the Atlas Trainman and old LL Proto 1000 locomotives.
Thanks for the information on Tony's page.
The old SD40-2's were 249 or so list price but did have the decoder. Depending on what decoder you purchase, that would still be a savings.
The Broadway Limited site says:
DC Sound-Equipped, DCC Ready.DCC users can quickly and easily install their favorite DCC decoders into the included plug 'n' play socket. This allows for both sound and operation control of the loco
So how do DCC users control the sounds with a non-sound decoder???? Seems like some explanation is missing. They seem to be pushing the DC market with this product, once I have converted to DCC, I do not want to go back.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
G Paine wrote: The Broadway Limited site says:DC Sound-Equipped, DCC Ready.DCC users can quickly and easily install their favorite DCC decoders into the included plug 'n' play socket. This allows for both sound and operation control of the locoSo how do DCC users control the sounds with a non-sound decoder???? Seems like some explanation is missing. They seem to be pushing the DC market with this product, once I have converted to DCC, I do not want to go back.
Like you, I use DCC and would not go back to DC, but the blue line seems to offer new people in the hobby a lower cost entry model into sound, and then they could add the DCC decoder when they wanted. BLI is probably aiming this at the DC operators who do not want the added cost of the DCC drive. At the same time, the Blue Line can save DCC modelers money by allowing us to install our own DCC.
The QSI models have both, but the cost is much higher.
Most of us prefer a certain brand of decoders over the other brands, and this would allow us to choose the one we want and install it in the removable plug. I have been using Zimo's in steam and NCE's in diesels for my choice. Both brands are very good, but you can purchase three or four cheaper decoders for the price of one Zimo. You will not find a better operating decoder today than the Zimo. I was having trouble getting the Zimo's until recently when Tony's Trains started stocking them again.
KlickyMobster wrote:To second on G Paine, how do these work with DCC. Do I just plug in a regular decoder when I'm ready to install DCC? Or do I need a sound decoder? This sounds like a nice system for someone in between DC and DCC like I am.
According to the pictures on the web site, you remove the standard plug and plug in the decoder and start using DCC.
One thing I don;t see there - no mention s made of how to operate the sound functions in DCC. The decoder plug is a basic 8-pin socket, so it surely does not hook up the sound functions to DCC function outputs that way.
Other observation: they say it's their own sound system. Well, since in DC it uses the DCMaster to operate the sounds, my guess is the Blueline sound board is made for them by ESU.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker wrote: One thing I don;t see there - no mention s made of how to operate the sound functions in DCC. The decoder plug is a basic 8-pin socket, so it surely does not hook up the sound functions to DCC function outputs that way. Other observation: they say it's their own sound system. Well, since in DC it uses the DCMaster to operate the sounds, my guess is the Blueline sound board is made for them by ESU. --Randy
The details are not really given in the announcement, except to push the point of their being able to eliminate the costs of the sound system from "QSI". I doubt if the Loksound would be any less money, but time will tell. The exert below seems to say the sound can be triggered using a PCM affordable accessory, which might be a clue.
A: User-controlled sound effects on BlueLine locomotives can be triggered using a DCMaster Analog Control Module. Users of Precision Craft Models locomotives may already own this affordable accessory and may use their existing DCMaster for BlueLine products. Using the DCMaster, the horn/whistle, bell and another Auxiliary sound (varies by prototype) such as a 2nd horn may be activated. Other sounds are automatically triggered. Many more sounds are available for user-control when DCC is installed.
This seems to be good news but I thought from what I've read and heard in the past that BLI was going with Lok Sound Can anyone confirm or deny this?
It's interesting that BLI is bring forth a new SD40-2. Some of you may remember the controversy with the SD40-2 that hit the market back in 2004. There were complaints that the sound was inaccurate (EMD 567 engine instead of the EMD turbocharged 645). So looks like BLI wants to make a very good start for 07.
Should be neat!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
CAZEPHYR wrote: KlickyMobster wrote:To second on G Paine, how do these work with DCC. Do I just plug in a regular decoder when I'm ready to install DCC? Or do I need a sound decoder? This sounds like a nice system for someone in between DC and DCC like I am. According to the pictures on the web site, you remove the standard plug and plug in the decoder and start using DCC.
In the past you've had two ways to install DCC and sound - one is to install a decoder that does both sound and has control functions, the other is to "piggyback", use a 'regular' (non-sound) decoder to control the engines movements, lights, etc. and a sound-only decoder to control just the sounds. Apparently BLI's new system is a sound unit that works like a "sound only" decoder, but which works in DC or (after you add your own 'regular' decoder) in DCC.
One caveat that the ad mentions (in very fine gray print) is that dual mode operation is NOT recommended once a decoder is installed. This might be a an issue for someone who operates on a DCC layout at a club but has a DC layout he operates in his own home.
AntonioFP45 wrote: This seems to be good news but I thought from what I've read and heard in the past that BLI was going with Lok Sound Can anyone confirm or deny this? I'm assuming ( and hoping ) that the new chip that allows uploaded sound will be available on these new "Blue Line" units. From what I've read before the "Upload" feature enables modelers with programmers to upload horn and bell sounds as well. This is cool since horns varied from railroad to railroad. Burlington Northern, generally, favored Leslie 3 chimers. CSX prefers Nathan 5 chimers. Bells varied also. It's interesting that BLI is bring forth a new SD40-2. Some of you may remember the controversy with the SD40-2 that hit the market back in 2004. There were complaints that the sound was inaccurate (EMD 567 engine instead of the EMD turbocharged 645). So looks like BLI wants to make a very good start for 07.Should be neat!
Antonio
Most of us will agree with you about the sound that was used for the BLI/QSI being very poor and inaccurate for the SD40-2, but BLI must have had the approval on the QSI application. I have noticed that several of the applications have not been so good with the steam also, but again some have been right on.
The article seems to indicate to me they are trying to bring down costs and that will allow more modelers to purchase sound without going to DCC. At the same time, DCC users will also be able to use the new system by installing their own DCC drive chip. This is concept is good since we can all pick and purchase our favorite DCC brand, but anytime they redesign or sell to a new lower end market so to speak, some compromises will be included. They might be eliminating the extra sound vendor, but what is their engineering experience level to do this project from scratch?? We will have to wait and verify how it works.
After reading their announcement / advertisement again, it could be they might be using the Loksound for this new deal without the long term contract or they are going it alone to eliminate the high cost of purchasing the sound from someone else.
Time will tell. I hope they upgraded the SD40-2 shell also since it did not receive great reviews from most of us.
CAZEPHYR
Leon Silverman wrote: One caveat that the ad mentions (in very fine gray print) is that dual mode operation is NOT recommended once a decoder is installed. This might be a an issue for someone who operates on a DCC layout at a club but has a DC layout he operates in his own home.
This might be due to the fact not all DCC decoders have the DC option and when the NMRA standard 8-pin socket for plug 'n' play plug is installed, the new unit is jumpered for DC operation. When the DCC decoder is installed, the new unit is jumpered for DCC operation.
If this is the way they wire the jumper plug, this would eliminate some more circuitry in the new sound decoder.
I am hoping for an announcement from BLI or MR to give us more information in the next month or so.
Something that I just remembered.
A while back a friend of mine pointed that in DCC mode, BLI units can perform some functions that you normally don't get in DC mode. I wonder if this will be the same for the Blue Line series?
It's the "extras" that convinced me that DCC was the way to go to enjoy the realistic special FX, especially since you can control them at will...........just like on the prototypes.
I also hope that the detailing on the SD40-2 will be improved.
So, I gotta open the engine up and add a decoder? I dont think so. It's too bad too because LokSound and QSI has been a pretty good run.
Hmmm. Now that's interesting. I have not heard of a DC sound equiped locomotive. But there seems to be a lot of advantages to this. First the price. For 180 dollars you could have sound and DCC. Instead of spending 270 dollars on one sound unit. But I don't know how good the sound is. I like QSI, but this might be new and improved. I might have to try and find a recording of the sound.
Happy railroading
James
CMSTPP wrote: Hmmm. Now that's interesting. I have not heard of a DC sound equiped locomotive. But there seems to be a lot of advantages to this. First the price. For 180 dollars you could have sound and DCC. Instead of spending 270 dollars on one sound unit. But I don't know how good the sound is. I like QSI, but this might be new and improved. I might have to try and find a recording of the sound.Happy railroadingJames
You are right about the price and that is not the discounted but list. I would hope dealers would continue to discount these the same amount as the previous ones, which might mean a sound locomotive in the $140 to $150 range
Safety Valve wrote: So, I gotta open the engine up and add a decoder? I dont think so. It's too bad too because LokSound and QSI has been a pretty good run.
It is not hard to remove the plug and insert the decoder into the eight pin connection. I have wondered about controlling the horn or bell after the DCC conversion.
We will have to have more details, but it seems like this is a way to offer a much less expensive model to us and to offer it to DC users without the extra cost of the DCC option.
I will probably pass on the first group since they are the first and at this time, who knows how good they will actually be.
I have talked to several dealers recently that are tired of the BLI Blow out sales that leaves them with stock on the shelves that will not sell.
One very large dealer has said, they will not stock future BLI products, only get them for very good customers that request them.
Food for thought..
IMHO the BETTER choice for DC sound would be to use the Atlas Quantum Engineer since it superior and will operate sound locomotives that include the latest QSI technology this includes Atlas,P2K and BLI.Compare the 2 systems and you will see and straight from Atlas:============================================Now, in addition to the horn and bell sounds, users will be able to access different engine settings and effects such as number lights, flanges, dynamic brakes, coupler sounds, blower/fans, reverse lights and much, much more.In addition to these sound and lighting features, DC users are also able to access other advanced features such as programming options, locomotive braking, locomotive shut-down and start-up procedures, verbal scale speed readout and more!===========================================Again and IMHO why bother with BLI when Atlas has the superior system that operates regular Sound equipped locos from different manufacturers which will give you a wider selection of locomotives?These are MY thoughts yours may vary.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE wrote: Food for thought..IMHO the BETTER choice for DC sound would be to use the Atlas Quantum Engineer since it superior and will operate sound locomotives that include the latest QSI technology this includes Atlas,P2K and BLI.Compare the 2 systems and you will see and straight from Atlas:============================================Now, in addition to the horn and bell sounds, users will be able to access different engine settings and effects such as number lights, flanges, dynamic brakes, coupler sounds, blower/fans, reverse lights and much, much more.In addition to these sound and lighting features, DC users are also able to access other advanced features such as programming options, locomotive braking, locomotive shut-down and start-up procedures, verbal scale speed readout and more!===========================================Again and IMHO why bother with BLI when Atlas has the superior system that operates regular Sound equipped locos from different manufacturers which will give you a wider selection of locomotives?These are MY thoughts yours may vary.
Brakie
Are you using the Atlas DC sytem? I have not heard it or operated the Atlas system. Is this system for DC only or will it work with DCC also??
BLI probaly is bringing out their own system to cut the bottom line cost to the end user, which might be their way of the future. The Blue line ad does not state they will drop the other lines, but it might mean that since the AC6000 had QSI installed on the first run.
Thanks
Its DC only..We have one at the modular club and it works quite well..
BLI has a system similar to the Atlas system..
See:
The Atlas
http://www.firsthobby.com/store1/Product.asp?ProductID=ATL325&SN=2007012012052028
Heres the BLI
http://www.firsthobby.com/store1/Product.asp?ProductID=BLI1003&SN=2007012012052028
See what I am saying?
This new system doesn't make sense IMHO.
Awright, I accept the idea that sound has it's own decoder (Lights too?) but I stand firm and say that decoders must be installed at the factory to drive the locomotive's motor and be in sync with the sound and lights.
DC is just that. We do have the Sidekick from BLI and the Command Center for the PCM's Loksound. The LokSound unit is required (An extra 40+ dollars) to run the Reading T1's whistle and what not off DC power. The Atlas's center can run many functions and still allow someone to use DC power.
I mean, COME ON! Who are we kidding here? Those command centers that allow a DC users to use DCC functions are basicially DCC control systems that feed off DC for power. If I have to buy Atlas, MRC (Remote control no less for thier 4-4-0 [That is one item I did NOT want since I already have DCC.] and only drives up the price and will require a replacement battery} plus..... Lok sound DCC control, BLI's Sidekick and other engines with propiertary (Spelling?) control boxes to run THIER DCC stuff.... by the time I get all of that boxes for the entire fleet I risk spending more money than a Digitrax Zephyr and almost to the level of the DCC Super Chief PLUS all those annoying DECODERS that now must be installed, researched and fitted and hopefully work the first time....
NO NO and NO. BULL CRAPH. Build Dual Mode engines that accept input from just ONE or TWO control boxes like the Atlas Command DCC Sound Center from all of the manufactors and have DECODERS for everything... motor, sound lights etc READY to go out of the box.
You know what? Let the engine makers build KITS. Throw in the engine, parts, Tender, Parts, wheels, wires and couplers. Then toss in the speakers, decoder and mounting doodads and print a exploded diagram and have us assemble the goddamn things at home instead of contracting CHINA or some place to do it.
Call them Snap-Tite DCC (In humorus honor of those no-glue plastic kits). The next generation Kits for DCC users and slash the prices on them so that retail RTR engines suffer once the Hobbyist gains the learning curve, skills and tools to build engines at home for half again the cost of the new RTR engines.
Oh wait... Browser (Spelling??) has done this for DECADES on DC engines providing super detailing kits for those that wish a more detailed product.
When I saw the Remote Control that came with the Roundhouse 4-4-0, I said to myself.. what the *&^% is this toy doing on a HO scale engine? It makes a 120 dollar engine act like a 200 dollar one at retail. The remote probably costed 10 bucks to build. While I applaud the foresight for those who dont have DCC, you will find that you need a DCC system to program the engine's selection of sounds to your taste.
I would not be so upset if Roundhouse seperated the Remote Control and made it seperate. I can see myself with 10 round house engines and juggling remotes for each and every one of them or selling 9 SPARE REMOTES on EBAY to other users who are also dumping them as well. In fact I would prefer it because one remote will drive all of the engines just as well. Since I got a Super Chief I can take the attitude and sniff at these plastic items that require a battery replacement and adds cost on top of the retail for the engine. Because of this, I am reluctant to purchase future Roundhouse engines. And I actually like those little critters.
I want to see the HO engine makers settle down, build good dual mode engines, keep them on the market, avoid the need for extra doo dads that weight our Obselete DC systems down.
Let's face it folks, DCC is marching. The approaching thunder heralds a future where kiddie trainsets will be equippted with the Digitrax Zephyer? I mean come on.
Atlas did create their Command Station to run QSI engines off DC power with a good amount of assorted functions without any problems. Other manufactors should stop stressing thier own control systems, accept Atlas's leadership and build Dual mode engines that will accept input from this one system instead of shoving thier own propiertary systems down the poor customer's throat. I already have several different control systems hanging off my Tech 4 throttle which sits on the work bench. That is just silly. Sooner or later I will reach the limits of the small DC throttle and have to buy a second throttle to run future DC engines.
In fact, why am I fooling with this DC anyway? Toss the whole mess into the trash can, simplify and use the Chief for everything DCC and the home computer with Decoder Pro.
That is my problem and I will deal with that in short order.
Safety Valve,I think that thundering herd isn't as big as many think.
Why?
Why would they(the manufacturers) design and sell sound control devices for DC users like the Quantum Engineer?
All I am saying something isn't sitting right.
Lets not turn this into another useless DCC vs DC free for all.Please.