So, how many of us are there?

[CNJ831]

Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading  or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues, would someone care to check and report back?) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.

The Gazette is a bimonthly, therefore the next issue will be January/February, 2007.  Circulation is roughly 50% higher than NScale's, based on the 11000 figure.

From the Nov/Dec 2006 Gazette, p. 100, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.)= 15330; Mail Subscriptions = 7475.
From the Nov/Dec 2005 Gazette, p.  79, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.) = 15664; Mail Subscriptions = 7533.
From the Nov/Dec 2004 Gazette, p. 103, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.)= 15735; Mail Subscriptions = 7422.

These data mean what, exactly, regarding how many participate in model railroading?

Taken as a whole (all magazines together), the numbers suggest that there are probably no more than 200,000 people reading model railroading magazines and the number could be decidedly smaller since most of us get two or more publications a month. From that number it is quite reasonable to assume that the total ranks of reasonably "realistic-type" hobbyists, which I take means folks who actually model in scale to at least some skill level and which was what the original poster asked about, could hardly be more than 150% of that figure. Legions of serious, yet phantom, hobbyists simply don't exist and I have to think even 300,000 hobbyists is probably pushing it (in its own surveys, MR never claimed there were more than 250,000 persons involved in model railroading, even at the hobby's probable zenith 10-15 years ago).

CNJ831 

[Dave-the-Train]

I don't even remotely care what people think!

I always tell people that I do American Toy Trains.  They go blank, take the Mickey or take some interest.  In the last case I try to be very careful to keep what I say varied and not over-detailed.

A lot of the people I work with support football teams (the real kind of football)... I however like American Football (after Rugby Union and Rugby League)... there's no clear ballerinas or out-and-out cheats allowed to stay on the field.  Whatever... I wind all of the football/soccer guys up at every opportunity... especially if they support Scotland.

The thing I can't stand is electronic gamers.    One place I'm surrounded by them... they go on line and play with each other every evening and then discuss what they did last night all the next day at work.  If anyone thinks that Toy Trains are sad they should meet these guys!

[Shilshole]

Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading  or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues, would someone care to check and report back?) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.

The Gazette is a bimonthly, therefore the next issue will be January/February, 2007.  Circulation is roughly 50% higher than NScale's, based on the 11000 figure.

From the Nov/Dec 2006 Gazette, p. 100, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.)= 15330; Mail Subscriptions = 7475.
From the Nov/Dec 2005 Gazette, p.  79, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.) = 15664; Mail Subscriptions = 7533.
From the Nov/Dec 2004 Gazette, p. 103, Total Paid or Requested Circulation (ave.)= 15735; Mail Subscriptions = 7422.

These data mean what, exactly, regarding how many participate in model railroading?

 

[on30francisco]

I've never heard any negative comments when I tell people I do model railroading. Maybe it's because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area which is known for its tolerance toward people with off-beat interests (like me). I know there's a big narrow gauge community in the South Bay that I'd like to get involved with but don't know how (I'm a narrow gauger). As far as others are concerned, I see a lot of people in this area who seem to have hobbies (obsessions) involving spending their time and money on overpriced trendy restaurants, yuppie coffee shops, upscale stores and buying a bunch of designer junk they don't need. Compared to what they spend on those things, this is indeed a very cheap hobby!

[SOU Fan]

 Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole?

Let's see there's me, you, a couple other guys, uh 5?

That would be 6, I'm here now also.

[tgindy]

I usually carry one of my model railroading magazines in my briefcase or folder, and if it is appropriate as a conversation starter, will ask if they have ever thought about the realism that can be attained in my hobby.

They are then astonished at the pictures.  Many will ask what all is involved.

Some will look fondly back at their "tinplate days."   Most are amazed at the number of skills involved and especially the visioning to see the larger picture.

Model railroading is a constructive hobby, and it sure beats mindless hours of blowing up human beings & mythological creatures on a computer screen, or risking your life by standing in line overnight for the newest game-station tech.

People are beginning to see the need to return to a simpler time, and slow their lives down.  It's like sharing the Gospel => One person at a time and one-on-one => User-friendly.

[jblackwelljr]

This has become an interesting thread.  Speaking for myself, I get an enormous amount of self-satisfaction whenever I complete something, whether it's upgrading rolling stock or completing a structure. 

 

Since my layout is still just a practice layout, it's in no condition to show to anyone.  But over Christmas, I showed my recently completed Scale Structures Victoria Falls Hotel, which, even out of the box,  closely resembles a local landmark building.  With the details I added, my friends immediately stated "Hey, that's the Thompson Building."  This boosted my confidence in my modeling abilities which is what I think I need to cast off this "closet modeler" feeling.  

 

It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.  As mentioned by another poster, this is a family-oriented, wholesome activity that should be shared.  I'm going to try a little harder.

[MisterBeasley]

That "Evening News" fluff story about model railroading said that it was a half-billion dollar a year business.  It's one of the few "real" data points we've got to work with, and even that may just be an estimate, since no source for the info was provided.  So, if we assume about a thousand a year spent on the hobby on average, then we get a half-million participants.  Of course, some spend more and some spend less, but that's a good round number that's easy to calculate with.

I use photos from my layout as screen savers on my computer at work, and most of the responses are very positive.  I've had a couple of people express genuine surprise that the photo wasn't of a real scene.  I've helped a couple of people with gift ideas for their relatives who are into trains, too.

[pcarrell]

The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".

They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us?  Thats the question.

Because we don't go running our trains down the street or sidewalk, scaring the bejesus out of people who think their going to be hit by a speeding model car. And when's the last time you've seen a train flying and doing loop de loops over the park or baseball field. I mean, I've seen a flying doghouse and a flying lawn mower, I've even seen a flying house! But I have never seen a flying train.

To paraphrase an old movie line:

I've seen a peanut stand, I've seen a house fly

I've seen a rubber band, but I ain't never seen a train fly!

 

Now watch somebody dig one up from somewhere!

OK, now we're getting somewhere.  I thought of this too, and I understand this reasoning.

I guess maybe we all really are basement dwellers (or attic, or whatever).

Maybe we should come out of the basement a bit more?

[pcarrell]

I would not say it's a big percentage - maybe 10% - but no one seems embarassed about the love of trains!

I'm not saying that we should be embarrased by it, not at all. I'm not. 

I just wondered why no one has heard of it (realistic modeling, that is), thats all. 

Everyone thinks of tinplate when they think of trains.  Thats just one aspect of the hobby. 

Theres so much more to it then just that one (albeit, very fine) tidbit of the hobby.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".

They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us?  Thats the question.

Because we don't go running our trains down the street or sidewalk, scaring the bejesus out of people who think their going to be hit by a speeding model car. And when's the last time you've seen a train flying and doing loop de loops over the park or baseball field. I mean, I've seen a flying doghouse and a flying lawn mower, I've even seen a flying house! But I have never seen a flying train.

To paraphrase an old movie line:

I've seen a peanut stand, I've seen a house fly

I've seen a rubber band, but I ain't never seen a train fly!

 

Now watch somebody dig one up from somewhere!

[pcarrell]

There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation.  I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right?  Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).

But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. 

They aren't doing it for free.  Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group?  Thats my point.

Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading  or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.

CNJ831

Well, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe there aren't as many of us as I thought.

[lvanhen]

Since I "retired", I work in a Home Depot with about 200 employees.  I have pics of the grandkids with Thomas posted near my work station (I do millwork - door & windows - designs).  There are at least 4 other employees that have operating layouts and a dozen or so who have varying levels of interest in "trains".  I've also found that quite a few of my customers have varying levels of interest - rangeing (damn Bergie - we need spell check!) from taking kids/grandkids to shows, to having operating layouts.  I would not say it's a big percentage - maybe 10% - but no one seems embarassed about the love of trains!

[Dave Vollmer]

There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation.  I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right?  Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).

But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. 

They aren't doing it for free.  Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group?  Thats my point.

Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading  or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.

CNJ831

N Scale Magazine just went through a management change...  It was declining because the previous management was really only publishing the stuff he was interested in.  I stopped buying it myself.  As I understand it from the other N scale forums, the new management and latest issue is much better.  I haven't seen it at my LHS yet.

NSR gets more comments in the N scale forums and I think NSR is getting stronger.  I don't subscribe, but I buy it at my LHS.  In fact, I've been considering writing up my layout for NSR.  I haven't seen circulation numbers for NSR.

Regardless, I'm at a point in my life where I just don't care what people think about my hobby.  All of my friends and family are fine with it, and I've had several USAF and Army co-workers who were also model railroaders.  I figure if I've served in combat in the Middle East with some of these guys, they're not about to question my "manliness" when I play with trains.

Besides, everyone, no matter how skeptical, has to agree that model railroading is a far more constructive, family-oriented, and educational hobby than some of the garbage I see grown men doing these days.  Some of my friends who are Captains, Majors, and GS13/14s fill their spare time with computer games, to the point of near-obsession and exclusion of family (I very rarely, but sometimes, play Call of Duty 2).  My family and friends appreciate my layout and the effort I put into it.

This is getting long-winded!  Oh, well.  Point is, although being a model railroader is not likely in and of itself to endear yourself to friends or a potential significant other (although that does happen sometimes!), anyone who thinks less of you for being one is not worth your time.

[CNJ831]

There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation.  I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right?  Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).

But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. 

They aren't doing it for free.  Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group?  Thats my point.

Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading  or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues, would someone care to check and report back?) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.

CNJ831

[pcarrell]

I don't care what other people thnk.  We're no worse than ones whose hobby is playing with toy airplanes, even if they are rather large and radio controlled, or toy cars, which can also be rather large and radio controlled.

Different strokes for different folks.

But the question isn't "Do I care what they think about my hobby".

The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".

They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us?  Thats the question.

[cacole]

I don't care what other people thnk.  We're no worse than ones whose hobby is playing with toy airplanes, even if they are rather large and radio controlled, or toy cars, which can also be rather large and radio controlled.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Ibflattop]

 Hey Carrol

 Just go to any Model Railroad show or flea market and look around. We all come out of the Basement,attic, or some of us come out of the closet for it. Here in NE Indiana, NW Ohio and Southern Michigan there are a bunch of us nuts!             Kevin

[pcarrell]

My own modeling interests are sufficiently contrarian that I don't really care about numbers, or demographics.  As long as I can do my own thing, I'm a happy camper.  If all the other people on this forum are equally happy, then we are all truly blessed.  On the other hand, people who are overly concerned about what 'others' are doing, and whether those 'others' conform to some overly-restrictive definition of 'model railroader,' need to get a life.

Just my opinion.  Feel free to disagree.

Hey, I'm with you all the way.

I don't really care too much if they like it or not.  I do, and thats what counts.

I never even really thought about it till the other day.  But then when I got that reaction again it just got me to thinking. 

It seems that nobody has a clue that there is a group of people out there who do what we do. 

Why is that?

I guess I'm just curious for the sake of curiousity, thats all.

[pcarrell]

There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby.  They have pretty good circulation too.

Actually, there are only two of any real significance in the area of scale modeling: MR and RMC. All the others have just about minimum-survival-level circulation figures (under 10,000 readers)...and several of these have just recently dropped from the scene.

CNJ831

There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation.  I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right?  Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).

But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. 

They aren't doing it for free.  Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group?  Thats my point.

[tatans]

I think one major result of this question and  when you admit you are a "train guy" is to not feel guilt or worry about a reaction from them, My thought is what do these people do for recreation or a hobby, you can bet that 99,8% of the people you meet have no outside interests, hobbies, crafts, etc,etc, but they are always ready for a comment on anyone that does. Just ask some of your relatives and friends or strangers what they do for a hobby( shopping and buying crap does not qualify as a hobby) . Me?? I usually do not bring up model railroading in a conversation, I, as well, do not bring up what was the last book you read either.   keep on trainin'-----

[CNJ831]

There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby.  They have pretty good circulation too.

Actually, there are only two of any real significance in the area of scale modeling: MR and RMC. All the others have just about minimum-survival-level circulation figures (under 10,000 readers)...and several of these have just recently dropped from the scene.

CNJ831

[jblackwelljr]

OK, I admit it….I am somewhat reluctant to discuss my model RR hobby in certain circles. I’ve attempted in the recent past but have gotten some disconcerting reactions. Among close friends, it’s mostly positive, with a little friendly ribbing, but this is OK because I banter back and forth all the time with these people. Outside this circle it’s a little different. If I say “I’m into model railroading,” I get an “Oh really…that’s nice,” and then the subject seems to change. When I’ve approached the subject from a historic perspective of railroading in general I get a much more positive response. I know I shouldn’t feel this way but I’m kind of halfway between caring and not caring what others think. Maybe because I’ve been active in the hobby for only over a year now. One thing for sure, it doesn’t curb my enthusiasm one iota - and thank goodness for this forum.

[Metro Red Line]

Lately I've been "outing" myself as a model railroader. I get mixed reactions.

Over the summer I was taking a day trip to San Diego with one friend of mine to watch a baseball game and en route we passed over the local UP yard. He was fascinated witht he way the large intermodal cranes looked and I told him I do railroad models and have a version of that crane. He said, "Cool."

Lately another friend asked me what I was up to and I told him I'm building a model railroad. He gave me a look as if I'd gone looney and asked me if I put on an engineer's cap and overalls or something. 

I also told yet another friend about my hobby and he could relate in some way (he's a comic book geek himself), he also works on research for film documentaries and told me the director of the documentary he's working on is a train buff. 

So I don't know, I don't let it bother me, but I tread delicately when it comes to telling people what my hobby is. Yes there's a "playing with toys" stigma, let's not doubt that. If I have to explain myself I'll talk about creating a miniature version of reality, and learning about various disciplines from carpentry to electronics to craftmaking to geology to history, etc. Maybe I'll let them control a train or two, who knows?

[SpaceMouse]

 Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole?

Let's see there's me, you, a couple other guys, uh 5?

[tomikawaTT]

One in this house, plus a slight-to-moderately interested spouse.

Plenty more, judging by the people that I meet in LHS on my travels and the crowds at train shows and well-publicised club open houses.

My own modeling interests are sufficiently contrarian that I don't really care about numbers, or demographics.  As long as I can do my own thing, I'm a happy camper.  If all the other people on this forum are equally happy, then we are all truly blessed.  On the other hand, people who are overly concerned about what 'others' are doing, and whether those 'others' conform to some overly-restrictive definition of 'model railroader,' need to get a life.

Just my opinion.  Feel free to disagree.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[MOJAX]

I found out the other day that 2 people I deal with professionally for over 5 years were model railroaders, one N and the other O gage. The topic only came up because one mentioned to the other something about DCC as I was walking in. So there may be more model railroaders than one would guess.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

It just goes to show that there are a lot more closet model railroaders out there than people think. I've been in the hobby since I was 4 years old (1964), I joined this forum in 2004 but didn't start making noise until this year.

[pcarrell]

Oh, I don't let it bother me really. 

It's just that it happened again today and it got me to thinking. 

There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby.  They have pretty good circulation too.

I'm just wondering if it's just one of those things where we are just THAT quiet of a bunch, that no one knows we exist or something, thats all.

[selector]

Agreed, all.  We could spend hours online at our computers like some folks do...oh, wait...well....you know, we could spend hours and bucks in back street shops where some folk would dare not be seen....aaah, shoooot..... okay, okay,....we could wear funny lights and visors while taking tiny sharp tools to plastic thingies like some dweebs do.....oh, never mind.

I'll just do what I know makes me happy.  To aitch with those who feel they are better than I am.  If they mean in terms of saving money, yup, they have it all over me, and more power to them.  I hope their restored Corvettes and gilt-framed Dutch Masters originals give them every bit as much comfort when they draw their last breaths as do whatever happens to be turning my crank when my time comes.  Then, we'll all be even.