Every time I mention to John Q. Public that I have a model RR, I get the same response. They don't say it out loud (usually), but you can hear it in what they say and see it in their eyes. "Awwww, he plays with toy trains."
Now I'm 41 years old. This might have been OK when I was like 7 or something, but clearly the idea of a miniture, realistic, representation of the world around us is not what the average person thinks about when they think of our hobby. I work hard on my RR to make it look like the real world. Many of you do too.
So, the question is, are we that much of a minority that our aspect of the hobby goes that unnoticed, or are we just a large, but quiet bunch? Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole? (roughly)
I realize that the govt. probably has not paid someone 16 bazillion dollars to do a study on this, but I'm just wondering, are we just like 1% or what?
NOTE: This is not meant to offend anyone who enjoys the "toy" aspect of the hobby. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just that this is like comparing a custom car builder with a restoration perfectionist. They both do awesome work, and both of them work on cars, but thats where the similarity ends.
I believe that there are a lot more folks who enjoy trains than we think. I never knew anyone in my neighborhood had an interest until about 4 years ago, when I discovered the fellow across the street was into "O" gauge and had a layout in his basement. Then a lady who I didn't know, but lived down the street, passed away. Turns out she had an "O" gauge layout in her attic. I was asked to help put some type of value to her collection for estate purposes. Then a fellow who lived a few doors down from passed away. Turns out he had an "HO" collection by German manufacturers. I also found out the neighbor who lives behind me is also into model railroading. I've lived here for about 35 years and thought I was the only one interested. The sad part is, even though we all have or had different areas of interest, we could have enjoyed going to train shows together or something, but who knew.
I bought 3 Lionel sets for my great nieces and nephews last year. It turns out their Dad's are kind of interested now that they each have a train under the tree. One has even been to a hobby shop already. Although he is mumbling about sticker shock.
So look around, I'll bet you find more interested folks than you think.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
Personally, I don't really care what people think about MRRing or my involvement in the hobby.
Sure, you're going to run into those that "roll their eyes" and think that you're a dweeb for "playing with trains". However, I find more folks who think it's pretty cool - even though they themselves are not involved with the hobby. Even those who are blase about model trains in general still tend to ooo and ahh and smile when they see train running around a Christmas tree.
Tom, above, makes a good point. A lot of times we are such lone wolves in this hobby of ours that we are often surprised to find out that others around us are either involved in the hobby in some way or curiously interested in knowing more but just don't know who to contact or talk to about it.
The best education is the one that you learn and can pass along to others around you. Their perception of the hobby is what you make it to be. Some people are going to understand; others aren't. Their loss...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
A pretty reasonable figure for the number of people into some form of model modeling and with more than just a vague passing fancy for toy or model trains, would be around 300,000 (this is more than the total monthly sales of all the model railroading publications combined).
If we further refine this so that we include only those with some sort of actual layout, regardless of size or level of completion and who operate "scale models" (i.e. eliminating tinplaters and armchair folks), I'd bet that the figure is not much more than 125,000.
So, yes, we are a pretty small group relative to the country's total population...let's realistically say about 00.1%.
CNJ831
Agreed, all. We could spend hours online at our computers like some folks do...oh, wait...well....you know, we could spend hours and bucks in back street shops where some folk would dare not be seen....aaah, shoooot..... okay, okay,....we could wear funny lights and visors while taking tiny sharp tools to plastic thingies like some dweebs do.....oh, never mind.
I'll just do what I know makes me happy. To aitch with those who feel they are better than I am. If they mean in terms of saving money, yup, they have it all over me, and more power to them. I hope their restored Corvettes and gilt-framed Dutch Masters originals give them every bit as much comfort when they draw their last breaths as do whatever happens to be turning my crank when my time comes. Then, we'll all be even.
Oh, I don't let it bother me really.
It's just that it happened again today and it got me to thinking.
There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby. They have pretty good circulation too.
I'm just wondering if it's just one of those things where we are just THAT quiet of a bunch, that no one knows we exist or something, thats all.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I found out the other day that 2 people I deal with professionally for over 5 years were model railroaders, one N and the other O gage. The topic only came up because one mentioned to the other something about DCC as I was walking in. So there may be more model railroaders than one would guess.
Michael Click Here to view my photos at RailPictures.Net!
My Photos at RRPictures.Net: Click Here
One in this house, plus a slight-to-moderately interested spouse.
Plenty more, judging by the people that I meet in LHS on my travels and the crowds at train shows and well-publicised club open houses.
My own modeling interests are sufficiently contrarian that I don't really care about numbers, or demographics. As long as I can do my own thing, I'm a happy camper. If all the other people on this forum are equally happy, then we are all truly blessed. On the other hand, people who are overly concerned about what 'others' are doing, and whether those 'others' conform to some overly-restrictive definition of 'model railroader,' need to get a life.
Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
pcarrell wrote: Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole?
Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole?
Let's see there's me, you, a couple other guys, uh 5?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Lately I've been "outing" myself as a model railroader. I get mixed reactions.
Over the summer I was taking a day trip to San Diego with one friend of mine to watch a baseball game and en route we passed over the local UP yard. He was fascinated witht he way the large intermodal cranes looked and I told him I do railroad models and have a version of that crane. He said, "Cool."
Lately another friend asked me what I was up to and I told him I'm building a model railroad. He gave me a look as if I'd gone looney and asked me if I put on an engineer's cap and overalls or something.
I also told yet another friend about my hobby and he could relate in some way (he's a comic book geek himself), he also works on research for film documentaries and told me the director of the documentary he's working on is a train buff.
So I don't know, I don't let it bother me, but I tread delicately when it comes to telling people what my hobby is. Yes there's a "playing with toys" stigma, let's not doubt that. If I have to explain myself I'll talk about creating a miniature version of reality, and learning about various disciplines from carpentry to electronics to craftmaking to geology to history, etc. Maybe I'll let them control a train or two, who knows?
pcarrell wrote: There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby. They have pretty good circulation too.
Actually, there are only two of any real significance in the area of scale modeling: MR and RMC. All the others have just about minimum-survival-level circulation figures (under 10,000 readers)...and several of these have just recently dropped from the scene.
I think one major result of this question and when you admit you are a "train guy" is to not feel guilt or worry about a reaction from them, My thought is what do these people do for recreation or a hobby, you can bet that 99,8% of the people you meet have no outside interests, hobbies, crafts, etc,etc, but they are always ready for a comment on anyone that does. Just ask some of your relatives and friends or strangers what they do for a hobby( shopping and buying crap does not qualify as a hobby) . Me?? I usually do not bring up model railroading in a conversation, I, as well, do not bring up what was the last book you read either. keep on trainin'-----
CNJ831 wrote: pcarrell wrote: There are quite a few magazines out there that cater to this hobby. They have pretty good circulation too.Actually, there are only two of any real significance in the area of scale modeling: MR and RMC. All the others have just about minimum-survival-level circulation figures (under 10,000 readers)...and several of these have just recently dropped from the scene.CNJ831
There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation. I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right? Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).
But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others.
They aren't doing it for free. Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group? Thats my point.
tomikawaTT wrote: My own modeling interests are sufficiently contrarian that I don't really care about numbers, or demographics. As long as I can do my own thing, I'm a happy camper. If all the other people on this forum are equally happy, then we are all truly blessed. On the other hand, people who are overly concerned about what 'others' are doing, and whether those 'others' conform to some overly-restrictive definition of 'model railroader,' need to get a life.Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Hey, I'm with you all the way.
I don't really care too much if they like it or not. I do, and thats what counts.
I never even really thought about it till the other day. But then when I got that reaction again it just got me to thinking.
It seems that nobody has a clue that there is a group of people out there who do what we do.
Why is that?
I guess I'm just curious for the sake of curiousity, thats all.
Hey Carrol
Just go to any Model Railroad show or flea market and look around. We all come out of the Basement,attic, or some of us come out of the closet for it. Here in NE Indiana, NW Ohio and Southern Michigan there are a bunch of us nuts! Kevin
I don't care what other people thnk. We're no worse than ones whose hobby is playing with toy airplanes, even if they are rather large and radio controlled, or toy cars, which can also be rather large and radio controlled.
Different strokes for different folks.
cacole wrote: I don't care what other people thnk. We're no worse than ones whose hobby is playing with toy airplanes, even if they are rather large and radio controlled, or toy cars, which can also be rather large and radio controlled.Different strokes for different folks.
But the question isn't "Do I care what they think about my hobby".
The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".
They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us? Thats the question.
pcarrell wrote:There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation. I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right? Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. They aren't doing it for free. Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group? Thats my point.
Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues, would someone care to check and report back?) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.
CNJ831 wrote: pcarrell wrote:There are several mags just for N scale, though I admit I don't know their circulation. I just figured that if theres 10 mags to choose from on the rack, somebody HAS to be making money, right? Somebody is selling these things, or they'd quit making them (as you pointed out that several have).But there's Nscale magazine, N Scale Railroading, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Shortline Gazette, and a host of others. They aren't doing it for free. Someone is buying this stuff, so how come no one has heard of it outside of a small group? Thats my point.Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.CNJ831
Last I read, N Scale magazine only had around 11,000 readers and that figure was steadily shrinking. I don't have figures for either N Scale Railroading or NG&SLG (they should be available in their January 2007 issues) but I don't expect they have a much greater circulation than NSR, especially the latter, which is really a niche magazine.
N Scale Magazine just went through a management change... It was declining because the previous management was really only publishing the stuff he was interested in. I stopped buying it myself. As I understand it from the other N scale forums, the new management and latest issue is much better. I haven't seen it at my LHS yet.
NSR gets more comments in the N scale forums and I think NSR is getting stronger. I don't subscribe, but I buy it at my LHS. In fact, I've been considering writing up my layout for NSR. I haven't seen circulation numbers for NSR.
Regardless, I'm at a point in my life where I just don't care what people think about my hobby. All of my friends and family are fine with it, and I've had several USAF and Army co-workers who were also model railroaders. I figure if I've served in combat in the Middle East with some of these guys, they're not about to question my "manliness" when I play with trains.
Besides, everyone, no matter how skeptical, has to agree that model railroading is a far more constructive, family-oriented, and educational hobby than some of the garbage I see grown men doing these days. Some of my friends who are Captains, Majors, and GS13/14s fill their spare time with computer games, to the point of near-obsession and exclusion of family (I very rarely, but sometimes, play Call of Duty 2). My family and friends appreciate my layout and the effort I put into it.
This is getting long-winded! Oh, well. Point is, although being a model railroader is not likely in and of itself to endear yourself to friends or a potential significant other (although that does happen sometimes!), anyone who thinks less of you for being one is not worth your time.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there aren't as many of us as I thought.
pcarrell wrote: The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us? Thats the question.
To paraphrase an old movie line:
I've seen a peanut stand, I've seen a house fly
I've seen a rubber band, but I ain't never seen a train fly!
Now watch somebody dig one up from somewhere!
lvanhen wrote:I would not say it's a big percentage - maybe 10% - but no one seems embarassed about the love of trains!
I'm not saying that we should be embarrased by it, not at all. I'm not.
I just wondered why no one has heard of it (realistic modeling, that is), thats all.
Everyone thinks of tinplate when they think of trains. Thats just one aspect of the hobby.
Theres so much more to it then just that one (albeit, very fine) tidbit of the hobby.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote: pcarrell wrote: The question is, "Why haven't they heard of us".They've heard of those other guys you mentioned, why not us? Thats the question.Because we don't go running our trains down the street or sidewalk, scaring the bejesus out of people who think their going to be hit by a speeding model car. And when's the last time you've seen a train flying and doing loop de loops over the park or baseball field. I mean, I've seen a flying doghouse and a flying lawn mower, I've even seen a flying house! But I have never seen a flying train.To paraphrase an old movie line:I've seen a peanut stand, I've seen a house flyI've seen a rubber band, but I ain't never seen a train fly! Now watch somebody dig one up from somewhere!
OK, now we're getting somewhere. I thought of this too, and I understand this reasoning.
I guess maybe we all really are basement dwellers (or attic, or whatever).
Maybe we should come out of the basement a bit more?
That "Evening News" fluff story about model railroading said that it was a half-billion dollar a year business. It's one of the few "real" data points we've got to work with, and even that may just be an estimate, since no source for the info was provided. So, if we assume about a thousand a year spent on the hobby on average, then we get a half-million participants. Of course, some spend more and some spend less, but that's a good round number that's easy to calculate with.
I use photos from my layout as screen savers on my computer at work, and most of the responses are very positive. I've had a couple of people express genuine surprise that the photo wasn't of a real scene. I've helped a couple of people with gift ideas for their relatives who are into trains, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This has become an interesting thread. Speaking for myself, I get an enormous amount of self-satisfaction whenever I complete something, whether it's upgrading rolling stock or completing a structure.
Since my layout is still just a practice layout, it's in no condition to show to anyone. But over Christmas, I showed my recently completed Scale Structures Victoria Falls Hotel, which, even out of the box, closely resembles a local landmark building. With the details I added, my friends immediately stated "Hey, that's the Thompson Building." This boosted my confidence in my modeling abilities which is what I think I need to cast off this "closet modeler" feeling.
It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it. As mentioned by another poster, this is a family-oriented, wholesome activity that should be shared. I'm going to try a little harder.
I usually carry one of my model railroading magazines in my briefcase or folder, and if it is appropriate as a conversation starter, will ask if they have ever thought about the realism that can be attained in my hobby.
They are then astonished at the pictures. Many will ask what all is involved.
Some will look fondly back at their "tinplate days." Most are amazed at the number of skills involved and especially the visioning to see the larger picture.
Model railroading is a constructive hobby, and it sure beats mindless hours of blowing up human beings & mythological creatures on a computer screen, or risking your life by standing in line overnight for the newest game-station tech.
People are beginning to see the need to return to a simpler time, and slow their lives down. It's like sharing the Gospel => One person at a time and one-on-one => User-friendly.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
SpaceMouse wrote: pcarrell wrote: Does anyone have any idea of how many realistic type model RRer's there are out there, either by scale, or as a whole? Let's see there's me, you, a couple other guys, uh 5?
That would be 6, I'm here now also.