So I stopped by my LHS on the way home from work tonight to pick up a couple of things I needed to keep my layout construction moving forward, and in the course of conversation there learned that they will be closing their doors soon. The gentleman minding the store said he hoped they'd make it to Christmas. It's the same old story - the owner is finally retiring, he can't find an outside buyer for the business, and actually discouraged his employees from buying it due to a shrinking client base and unbeatable competition from internet retailers. So, the store I've been stopping in literally since I was a kid just to look around and dream will soon be no more. The times truly are changing.
The benefit to me in the very short term is that he's giving a 20% discount on all purchases, but once the inventory is gone, it's gone.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
You know I keep hearing and reading about this, but our business has been very solid this year and we are even showing growth in many areas. There have been several smaller shops that closed in our area in the last several years, but they were poorly managed/staffed and underfinanced in my honest opinion. There are of course several keys to staying in business, but the most significant one in my mind has to be customer service. For example I have a great DCC clientel, and while I discount to some extent, most of my customers keep coming back because they know I'll help them with problems and I understand their needs. In short, I have formed relationships with many of these guys that would be difficult to maintain in a virtual way.
Just remember pricing is important and I'm all for discounting and staying competitive, but there are other more valuable things a hobby shop can and should offer and these more than anything will keep people coming back...
jnichols wrote:Just remember pricing is important and I'm all for discounting and staying competitive, but there are other more valuable things a hobby shop can and should offer and these more than anything will keep people coming back...
Yup. 100% You must adapt. Just coming back into the hobby from a LONG layoff and there ain’t much I see that's the same. As it should be.
One observation I will make. I am almost ALWAYS the youngest person in any of the many LHS I visit. Granted, some of the customers have their kids with 'em. But the sales staff is at LEAST 10+ older. And at the LHS I went to today, they were ALL at least 20+ years older. Now PLEASE don’t get me wrong, it was cool talking with them. But DCC was not on their top 10 lists... Plus I ride a Harley (the one I take to the shops is my FLHTci which has hard bags to transport the goods ;o) wear jeans, boots, have a goat, and weigh in at a solid 230 (lifting is my other sport). So believe you me, it takes a good while to even get someone to ask if I need any help. LOL. They just don’t SEE ME as someone who would be into trains.
Loco wrote: jnichols wrote:Just remember pricing is important and I'm all for discounting and staying competitive, but there are other more valuable things a hobby shop can and should offer and these more than anything will keep people coming back... Yup. 100% You must adapt. Just coming back into the hobby from a LONG layoff and there ain’t much I see that's the same. As it should be. One observation I will make. I am almost ALWAYS the youngest person in any of the many LHS I visit. Granted, some of the customers have their kids with 'em. But the sales staff is at LEAST 10+ older. And at the LHS I went to today, they were ALL at least 20+ years older. Now PLEASE don’t get me wrong, it was cool talking with them. But DCC was not on their top 10 lists... Plus I ride a Harley (the one I take to the shops is my FLHTci which has hard bags to transport the goods ;o) wear jeans, boots, have a goat, and weigh in at a solid 230 (lifting is my other sport). So believe you me, it takes a good while to even get someone to ask if I need any help. LOL. They just don’t SEE ME as someone who would be into trains.
I know what you mean, but I don't see it as a big deal anymore (maybe because I'm older now). I just turned 35 a few days ago (I look mid-late 20s), but in most social situations related to this hobby (hobby shops, MRR clubs, train shows, etc), I still see some younger folks (20s, even kids who drag their parents there...like I once was :)) and even staff who are roughly my age. The guy who owns Temple City Trains (from the other thread) is around my age.
What other retail business has an average age of it's owners and employees older than the model RR hobby?!? I just see a BIG gap comming. Who's going to pick up the torch?
"Yo Bro, check out the killer sound on this kick'en Geep. DCC can creep it slow for show. Stack 'em back to front - I like four or more in my parade. I'll even speed set 'em fer ya too."
"Steam? Check out this sweet UP BB with a custom Tsunami heavy decoder. And did you hear about the new MTH with the sycro puffing smoke? In HO no less! While were talking about smoke... take a sniff of these new smoke flavors...cinnamon, vanilla, hickory, pine...."
You just don't hear that sort of ligo and excitement... Ah well, maybe I'll buy a shop. Right.... just as soon as I figure out all this dern computer program'en, decoder installing, reverse loop, signal/block detection, layout design, CV this, CV that, solder, paint, glue, masonary, wood working, fabrication, and proto running hobby....
I need a drink....
p.s. And can anyone tell me how to photograph?????
Jeff,
You left the "e" out of your url in you signature. The www button works though.
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
It's always a sad thing when a long time business closes its doors. It's like saying goodbye to an old friend. But that is the nature of business. It is constantly evolving. Old businesses die, new ones are born. It's all about serving the customers and the ones that do that best will stay in the game.
I wonder to what extent this LHS was into the model train hobby. To some it is a small part of their business while my own LHS is strictly for trains and as far as I can tell, it is thriving. It's not a big store. I has a double storefront in a small strip center. But it has outstanding selection and competetive prices. It can't match the e-tailers but what it can't do with price, it can in service. To stay in business, the LHS will have to offer the customer something the e-tailers can't, primarily face to face customer service.
jecorbett wrote: I wonder to what extent this LHS was into the model train hobby. To some it is a small part of their business while my own LHS is strictly for trains and as far as I can tell, it is thriving.
This particular establishment was, I'd estimate, about 30-40% model trains. The remainder was R/C & plastic models. They may have a few other things as well, but I never venture into that side of the store much...
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
In Northern Utah we are truly blessed. There are at least a half dozen hobby shops within 30 minutes of where I live and over half of them are dedicated to model railroading.
And this does not include general craft stores that carry hobby supplies like Rogers, Michaels, and Ben Franklin, etc.
Loco wrote: jnichols wrote: Just remember pricing is important and I'm all for discounting and staying competitive, but there are other more valuable things a hobby shop can and should offer and these more than anything will keep people coming back... Yup. 100% You must adapt. Just coming back into the hobby from a LONG layoff and there ain’t much I see that's the same. As it should be. One observation I will make. I am almost ALWAYS the youngest person in any of the many LHS I visit. Granted, some of the customers have their kids with 'em. But the sales staff is at LEAST 10+ older. And at the LHS I went to today, they were ALL at least 20+ years older. Now PLEASE don’t get me wrong, it was cool talking with them. But DCC was not on their top 10 lists... Plus I ride a Harley (the one I take to the shops is my FLHTci which has hard bags to transport the goods ;o) wear jeans, boots, have a goat, and weigh in at a solid 230 (lifting is my other sport). So believe you me, it takes a good while to even get someone to ask if I need any help. LOL. They just don’t SEE ME as someone who would be into trains.
jnichols wrote: Just remember pricing is important and I'm all for discounting and staying competitive, but there are other more valuable things a hobby shop can and should offer and these more than anything will keep people coming back...
Hi. Sorry I am late jumping in, but I understand your comment about standing out in such a way that people don't take you for anything but an interloper when you enter the premises...or as someone who needs to know where the nearest Wal-Mart is. I am smallish, not tiny, but am thin and under 5'8"...okay, I'm a runt. Anyway, I have always found it a good practise to walk purposefully up to the sales staff, once I identify them, and to make eye contact the whole way....and smile! I greet them, and let them know in certain terms that I am here to look at MRR stuff. If they find my approach to be off-putting, or if the affect some sort of reserve or disdain, I will not patronize them...ever again.
I have found, though, that many MRR stores expect their customers to be already savvy and to have a good handle on their needs. I don't know why this is the case, but my experiences at 4 LHS's over the past two years, although positive, is that the staff expects you to know what you are talking about. This is also true for some internet retailers. Trainworld.com comes to mind.
SpaceMouse wrote:I finally found a hobby shop 40 minutes from where I live and now, 6 months later, they've closed their doors. Same thing, they retired. Now the search is for the next closest.
Hmm, I don't know what conclusion to draw from this. Either they defied the odds, hugely, and were able to retire due to their stellar sales over that short time, or they reaaaalllly bit the big one and got out while the getting was still good.
Six months? Sheesh!
In the hobby shop business these days, there's also "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".
I know of one hobby shop owner who created an internet site for his wares and his online sales were so good he just closed his brick and motar to go exclusively online.
So my advice to any LHS who feels like the internet is hurting them is to get with the times! Open up a web site!
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
jfugate wrote: In the hobby shop business these days, there's also "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".I know of one hobby shop owner who created an internet site for his wares and his online sales were so good he just closed his brick and motar to go exclusively online.So my advice to any LHS who feels like the internet is hurting them is to get with the times! Open up a web site!
Very true but you also indicate the possible distinct down side of that - the shop closing its doors of the retail brick and mortar side.
For many years my area enjoyed having by far the largest all model train shop between NYC and Albany (i.e. a radius of about 100 miles). When it became necessary for the shop to move to new quarters, the owner found it more profitable to go just with online sales. Result - no more first class train shop within 2-3 hour's driving distance. He made out great. But the local hobbyists no longer have a store to visit and what you used to walk in and buy now takes a week to get through the mail!
CNJ831
I once posted a thread called the LHS blues because I cannot find a decent LHS in my area. The kicker is that I live in perhaps the most populated part of the country (just outside NYC) and still no decent LHS. Now, if I want to drive 60 miles that's a different story. But 60 miles IS NOT LOCAL to me.
When I was a kid, there used to be a HUGE Lionel superstore on the main strip in my county (Central Ave). I used to go in there as a kid and just dream away..... alas, that store closed more years ago than I can remember and nothing ever opened to replace it.
The good news is the internet. I have found many "virtual LHS" which take very good care of me and their prices can't be beat. However, when you want to hold an engine in your hands or actually 'feel' the track, you can't do that in cyberspace.
Mr. Fugate, I know you meant that they should have a website in addition to their actual store, but to me, a BIG part of the hobby is going into that LHS and just looking around for a while. I always buy something, but since I don't have a layout yet and my budget is small, being a window shopper can be fun.
To me, looking at a website just doesn't have the same effect. If there wasn't a good shop within decent driving distance I'm not sure I would still be in this hobby.
I'm not one that goes in a shoots the breeze over a cup of coffee, but it's somewhat re-energizing to look at all the neat stuff and dream about actually having a fully functional layout someday.
My wife actually like's going too because she is interested somewhat in this hobby as well, so it's a fun little thing for us to do together. Using a website just won't do for that.
There have been planety of hobby shops close in the Dallas area over the last 20 years, and really right now I only know where one real train shop is (Might be a few in Ft. Worth, but that's like a whole other country over there), and if that shop closes, I'm not sure I could keep my interest going.
Hope that didn't ramble too much.
Steve
As far as on line shops there are 3 things I look for:
1. Easy to use on line catalog with prices-NO links to the manufacturers web page..That tells me zip about whats in stock and prices.
2.Competitive pricing..10% doesn't get it when your competitor offers 25% off.
3.Shipping charges via UPS and USPS.My choice.
Thats how on line shops get my hobby $$ over the local shops.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As a child I have enjoyed visiting many hobby shops in my region and see some of those store close for a variety of reasons.
I am happy to have two first class stores in Arkansas that I can visit even if the mileage may be a bit long and hard on the gas.
I dont see the internet as a enemy of brick and mortor stores. I see it as a tool to quickly sort thru the chaff and gather up a few wheats of information quickly and ahem... beat the brick and mortor shop once in a while in pricing. But I choose to go to the LHS so that they can stay open and hopefully in business for a long time.
I could probably put together web pages and run a server for a store but it will demand alot of technical support and expenses along with potential shipping and sales to record and track as well as deal with customer problems or questions. For some stores that might be run by one or two people; that could be a bit of a tall order.
But for those stores that do maintain a webpage plus a store they seem to do well. Kudos.
But for every store that closes due to death, retirement etc... is truly a end of an era and one that probably will not be revisited.
Fellers,
Well, I have also had quite a run with the local hobby store. Changed owners twice, then went away. I can't say I'm sorry to see it go. I only visited it when I absolutely needed something right then, like a new bottle of Zap-Gap or such things.
My main complaint was the owner, especially the last one. Hardly any new stock, very little in the way of dusting, vacuuming, or just plain display logic. He also had a hard time dealing with some folks. He'd be on the phone with some distributer about an order and meanwhile folks would be backing up at the sales counter. I've seen folks put their stuff back and walk out.
The last straw for me was two-fold. First, he absolutelty refused to sell for less than the MSRP. I'd show him sale flyers and he'd say, "then buy from them". So I did.
Second, there was a lady who simply wanted to know the difference between rapido and knuckle couplers. The owner was, once again, on the phone and the lady waited for several minutes for him to finish. She asked me if I could explain the difference, and so I did. When he got off the phone, he was adamant that NO ONE BUT HIM should speak to HIS customers about HIS products in HIS store.
Therefor I left, and never went back.
I have no problem buying through ebay or the internet. And, since my entire state is down to just 2 hobby shops, each more than an hour's drive away, why should I bother with them? In fact, to play the devil's advocate here, isn't the demise of the LHS simply a sign that capitalism works? If I have to drive an hour to get to the shop, plus gas and likely a meal, plus an hour back, that more than offsets the shipping charges from an online store. I can shop from home and get what i need and save time as well.
Plus, if I really need to know something about a product, I can visit the manufacturer's pages, check out a review in MR, or just post questions on the forums.
Respects to all,
Gwedd, I couldn't have said it better. I recently had a similar experience at a LHS. First off, the store was 90% O scale. I have nothing against O scale but I notice many LHS carry it for the 'toy train' effect and are not looking to sell to serious modelers. This is a big problem IMHO with many hobby shops - they are looking for the quick, MSRP sale to the occasional hobbyist who wants to put a train under the tree.
I started to talk to the owner and made a remark about how little HO and N scale stuff he had. He remarked to me that he was not aware HO scale was making a comeback. I laughed and said I never knew it left! No offense to the guy, but he was clueless and had no business owning a model train store.
As to not make it a total loss, I thought I would pick up a basic track cleaning eraser. He didn't even have any. Give me a break. I walked out and never returned. It's been the internet for me ever since and all's been well. Tony's Train Exchange, Toy Train Heaven, etc have all treated me FAR better than the LHS.
Just my two cents!
I can't argue with the window-shopping fun of just walking around a well-stocked hobby shop and checking out the merchandise in person.
But times are changing. What youngster today knows what it was like as kid to go to the drive in theater? Or to have a half-dozen drive-in theaters to chose from if you wanted to go to a movie on a Friday or Saturday night?
Certain things fade into history over time ... and I'm afraid the LHS will become fewer and farther between as well.
But look at the bright side ... I've never had *so many hobbyshops* at my fingertips from which I could purchase product. The selection and ability to quickly compare prices only makes this part of getting modeling supplies easier and more economical than ever.
kreighaus wrote:It is a sad state of affairs. These days any retailer that does not compete on the internet is in dangerous waters. You would not believe how many new customers come in our doors and are simply amazed a store like our stills exists these days.
I wouldn't call the LHS dead at all. Oftentimes I'd go to a well-stocked store and buy some "Gee, I never knew that was abailable, I'd better buy it" items. Also with locos, it's best you TBYB (try before you buy). If they're run by the right people, your LHS can be a resource of modeling info (just like this forum, except you get your reply right away instead of up to a few days later) Of course, if you have to buy 25 turnouts (whereas your LHS would only have at most 3 or 4 available) and know exactly what you want, I'd first look lonline.
But a LHS can't just be "shelves with merchandise and a guy behind the counter" anymore. You got to think outside the box(car). One LHS in my area gives you a free raffle ticket for every $5 you purchase and has a raffle drawing on the last Saturday of the month. Sure enough, at the drawing time, the store is PACKED and they even give away free sodas. They also give a few more minutes to make purchases (so you can get more tickets) and the prizes are various amounts of store credit. Not only is it an incentive to visit the storeand buy something, there's also a nice social atmosphere of people talking and meeting each other. You can't put a price on that.
I guess I'm blessed that I have two very good LHS's no more than 20 mins away. One is totally trains and the other is RC/MRR. The mrr area is separated from the RC side, and it does'nt feel like the stepchild of the business as some multi-hobby shops do.The split-shop's owner has a clue and he has a young, experienced guy that's very helpful and as soon as I walk through the door, he updates me on the latest stock from Athearn, Atlas, IMRC, etc. I really enjoy his conversation(he's around my age, I'm 28). Good solid discounts, and always fresh stock. There may be items I purchase there knowing full well I could save on through Internet, but I choose to support these shops. I'd hate to think if I lost these shops, so I fully support both. If I need to order something, he will practically jump over the counter with enthusiam and will pull out all the latest dealer fliers to assist me.Internet just does'nt give me that kid in a candy store feel. At $20-$30 for some rolling stock nowdays, I like to inspect it good, especialy if it's new tooling/model.
Rich
mononguy63 wrote:So I stopped by my LHS on the way home from work tonight to pick up a couple of things I needed to keep my layout construction moving forward, and in the course of conversation there learned that they will be closing their doors soon. The gentleman minding the store said he hoped they'd make it to Christmas. It's the same old story - the owner is finally retiring, he can't find an outside buyer for the business, and actually discouraged his employees from buying it due to a shrinking client base and unbeatable competition from internet retailers. So, the store I've been stopping in literally since I was a kid just to look around and dream will soon be no more. The times truly are changing.The benefit to me in the very short term is that he's giving a 20% discount on all purchases, but once the inventory is gone, it's gone.
Ummm...20% discount off all purchases now? Thats their problem..GREED. Our local Hobby Stores actually compete for business by offering 20% discount ALL THE TIME. Who pays retail? They obviously don't get it and are paying the price for their failure in price structuring.
I say if you're going to charge MSRP then Good Riddance!
A very familiar story.
My regular LHS owner passed away suddenly( my sincere condolences) recently (Railview -Markham , Ontario). I have spoken to the family and they expect to make a decision in the next few weeks. Hopefully there will be a buyer who will keep the store open. We'll see what happens and hopefully it will stay open.
Tom
Wow, first post on the new site and it's such a dreary topic. I'm down in San Diego and I'm blessed with great Hobbyshops both down here and up in the OC. They aren't really local, but they are excellent shops and worth the drive.
What I've found is that shops that cater specifically to Model railroading do much better then generic Hobby shops.
Back when I was in Chicago, my favorite LHS was strictly trains and dollhouses which reflected the married owner's passions.
You need passion for the Hobby to do well.
Another "Local" place down here that does good business is called valuecraft. They are primarily a local version of Michaels, but they have a decent selection of Model trains. They concentrate on G and Lionel as many places do, but they have pretty good N and HO selections. I only wish they had better staffing. They have a "Hobby" guy, but there's only one and he has to do everything. I was in today and a lady asked where the N-scale people were. The young lady who she asked was clearly not familiar with that side of the store and I had to help.
Even given it's faults I like that place, because I can get everything from models to paints to generic acrylic paints to scenery materials and frames for my railfan photos and don't get me started on what the wife can find. It's like a one stop moneypit.
Personally, I rarely use the internet, because I hate paying shipping and I want instant gratification. Also, I like swapmeets and shows when I can find them.
Here's something to file in the "for what it's worth" department.
I recently ordered some (12 pieces) of HOn3 (Micro Engineering) flex track from my LHS. He didn't have it in stock, but said he would order it for me. On the exact same day, I ordered some HOn3 switches from a well know internet model railroad site. I used the pay on line option and their on-line catalogue said the items I requested were in stock.
It is 8 days later the owner of my LHS called me and said my flex track was in. I had not, however, heard anything about my switches from the large internet store. So I sent them an email. They responded saying "well its the Holiday Season and it was taking a while to get their stock from their warehouse, yada, yada, yada. And I could expect my order to shipped early next week."
Now, I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night.
I will bet anyone dollars to donoughts that said internet retailer doesn't have a warehouse and if they did the items I requested weren't in stock when I ordered them. They probably had to order them from Walthers, just like my LHS, and instead of being honest with me when I inquired about my order, they fed me a **** and bull story!
And I am still waiting for my switches.
Local Hobby Shop 1
Internet Retailer 0
As long as the Houston Roundhouse stays open I'm cool... But, I'm sure its day will eventually come too.
The truth is, I buy 90% or more of my train items off the web - mostly ebay. About the only time I'll drive the 52 miles to the Roundhouse is when I'm looking for something I can't find anywhere else, or I just want to get out of the house for a couple of hours.
Tracklayer