For the modelers in the Cleveland Area:
I'm originally from Cleveland and haven't been back there for 20 years. Does anyone remember The Hobby House on Huron Ave? What ever happened to it? I used to go there in the 60s and 70s.
Pearl is a three- floor arts and crafts store located on Market St. between 5th and 6th. They have stripwood, styrene, brass sheets and strips, paints (not Floquil but many many colors of artists paints that are very useful for model railroad purposes), glues, chalks, and much more. If your coming from Concord, take BART to Powell St. station and walk half a block on the south side of Market St.
I remember Rara Avis Trains (?), and Iron Horse in Concord and Peninsula Hobbies in San Mateo but I think they went the way of the dodo bird. I think the best hobby shop in the Bay Area is The Train Shop in Santa Clara.
Cliff,
Very good observations. I also support the idea of having a wooden train set/play area in the store. Many times I've had take the young'n with me, and that wooden brio layout kept her busy while Dad could shop. She was safe, occupied, and started to learn about trains.. a future customer.
The stores that make it in the long run are not those that go into business to make a profit. The succesful ones are those that go into business to provide a product or srvice that folks will be willing to pay a profit for. That sounds like semantics, but it isn't. Anyone who is driven by the bottom won't last long. It becomes the same tiresome store as you descride. Dusty, no turn-over, poor displays (if any) and the owner sitting reading a paper and sipping coffee while the custmoer tries not to get to much dust on his clothes.
Stores OUGHT to be the driving force behind starting a local club, or supporting one that's already there. Put up a flier about when the meetings are, who to contact, etc. Offer a 10% or 15% discount to anyone with an up to date membership card in the club. Host clinics either at the store, or at a place nearby. If the store owner can't host it, then offer to supply the products being demonstrated at cost to the person putting on the clinic. That way the store will at least break even and the folks attending the clinic will no where to get the items demonstrated.
Have an area in the store for new products or recent arrivals. At least organize the store by brand name, if not by products and/or scale. Change out the window display every week or so to keep things fresh.
Sponsor a modelling contest with gift certificates for prizes, and above all, every time you host a clinic, or sponsor a show, alert the press! Send out a news release each and every week to your local paper talking about what you are doing in store that week. In fact, if you can swing the finances, sponsor one of the girls or boys club teams, or YMCA/YWCA or Little League teams, etc. Sponsor a railroad modelling day for the local scout troop, to introduce them to the basics, etc. You'd be amazed how much return you can get off of simply sponsoring a team, having your business name on their jerseys!
Above all, make it so that folks will be WILLING to spend those extra dollars to come to you because they remember you from the community, because you seem to care about the kids, because your store is clean and well-stocked.
Yes, it takes money to make money, and you'll probably not make mush at all the first 4-5 years. You need patience and ingenuity and more patience and advertising and patience.
Respects,
I was in one of the LHSs by me recently. Nice place, though not in the best neighborhood (although less than 1 mile from a "good" one... either way, i'm comfortable enough there...
I went to the store planning on buying my first pack of Kadees (OK, that 1030 starter kit or whichever). The place was (at some point) a house... the entire first floor is military/model rockets/cars (maybe rc?)/etc, but the entire basement is trains. The clerk was a really nice guy... dug through all of the "small stuff" drawers and stuff because he knew that there were at least two of those packs left... anyway, he spent about half an hour helping me look for one of those packs to no avail. As he was looking, he held a conversation - mostly small stuff (how long I've been in the hobby and stuff). After we gave up on the hunt for the starter packs, I settled for a couple of packets of #5s.
There was another customer in there, who knew what he was after (or had special ordered something), so the clerk got him whatever he needed as I looked through the small collection of (used) locos - not finding anything there, I wandered around for a bit, and came upon an entire wall of car/building kits - picked up a pair that were way out of my (current) skill level (they need all kinds of filing and stuff); so as set the stuff down on the counter, the clerk suggested that I build some other kits first (that were actually cheaper)...
I was planning on meandering through another LHS over my Christmas break, but when I called to see if they had any form of kits*, the person who answered sounded like they'd rather not be talking to me... so they lose...
*kits (rolling stock, eventually locos) have quickly become my second favorite part of the hobby. Favorite is watching trains
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I actually think that Towne Center's monthly costs would deplete any income, especially with the stores they have there. National chains have the capital and can move enough inventory to handle that kind of overhead.
I like the window G scale idea! And yes, I would probably start off with an internet server. Gotta have some income if the brick and mortar doesnt work out. LOL I would probably end up re-arranging the wooden train setup daily since I have a constant need to change the layout of my sons toys :)
Dave Loman
My site: The Rusty Spike
"It's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.... hey, someone's making a penny!"
I have been following this thread with interest. Awhile back I posted my comments on some problems that seem to plague most hobby shops. I feel this bears repeating in this discussion. For those who have read this before, I apologize in advance.
In my previous life I spent many, many years in retail management. Based on my experience both as a customer in countless hobby shops (in Mississippi, Texas, Virginia, Maryland, Florida, Louisiana and Alabama) and working for several large national retail "mall stores", I am amazed at how little most hobby shop owners know about managing a successful retail business. The overwhelming majority of hobby shops I've patronized suffer from the same problems which can each be traced back to poor management. They include............
1. Location of the store. Unfortunately, all too many hobby shops seem to be located on the "wrong side of the tracks" (no pun intended). If I have to worry that my car will be gone when I come out of the store, how often do you think I'll be taking that risk? A good example is the now defunct Bobbye Hall's in Dallas. It was a great train store. But if the business has to resort to installing razor wire on the roof top, I think I'll make my purchases online from the safety of my home. True, the rent may be much less in these crime-infested neighborhoods, but at what cost to business?
2. Attractiveness of the store. Almost every hobby shop I have ever shopped in was dirty, poorly lit, messy, cluttered and disorganized. Are there no owners who have the slightest clue about visual merchandising???? The popular approach seems to be "pile the newer stuff on top of the older stuff". Is the store "shopper friendly"? If you have to ask "Do you have any....." more than once, the store has not been thoughtfully laid out. Most store owners are content to just shove something new anywhere, rather than re-display an overgrown area of the store attractively. One store outside of Dallas, Discount Model Trains, was the most well executed train store I have ever seen. All rolling stock was arranged by road name and then car type. If you wanted an SP 50' flat and T&NO 40' boxcar, they were displayed in the SP section. The wall of super detail parts was particularly well organized. Needless to say, I dropped a good chunk of change in their store.
3. Store Environment. Is the store's thermostat set for the customer's comfort or the owner's wallet? Does it reek of cigarette smoke? When I lived in Northern Virginia, I used to shop at the Rip Track (also now closed). Dear God, it was like sitting in an ashtray. I believe I shaved two years off of my life every time I went in the place. Any item I purchased had to stay out in the garage to be "decontaminated" because it smelled so bad. Also, the owner had the mouth of a drunken sailor! His wife worked in the store with him, and he would constantly cuss her like a rented mule. Yeah, that's the kind of place I want to take my four-year old to shop. Sadly, vulgarity has been used in my presence in MANY hobby shops.
4. Inventory Levels. Is the Plastruct display in the store STILL out of clapboard siding after a year? For six months have you been looking for Woodland Scenics conifer green course turf? Is the Floquil Reefer White so old it has petrified in the bottom of the bottle? You should not drive all the way across town (or further!) to hear "I'm out of Kadee #5's" or "I just sold my last can of Dull Coat this morning". The "bread and butter" items of the hobby should be ordered in appropriate "rainy day" quantities.
5. What's New? This is my single biggest gripe and one that has lost my local hobby shops literally thousands of dollars from me alone. I can't tell you how many times I have entered a train store with $50 burning a hole in my pocket only to leave with the same 50 bucks. If something has not sold in a year GET RID OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark it down, put it on a clearance table, and get it out of the store. Hobby shop owners are so afraid of not getting the full profit margin out of an item, they will literally hang on to it until it has mummified. How many times have I left a hobby shop empty-handed mumbling under my breath, "Same Old #%*!" ??? Once your clientele realizes there is never anything new to see, you might as well lock up and call it quits. One of our former hobby shops in Jackson, MS was so stagnant that I would move things around myself just to see if they were still in that spot a year later. When the owner closed the store, he claimed there was no market for trains. However, when he marked everything down 50%, the shelves were bare in three weeks. Obviously, the market was there - he was just clueless about how to run the business. How many other hobby shops have become fallen flags for the same reason?
One bit of popular terminology in the retail vernacular is "driving sales". What could your LHS do - or have done - to drive their business. These days one can no longer be content to wake up, unlock the store, sit on their a** behind the counter for 8 hours, then go home. A business requires an investment of not only money, but also time and creativity. During my many years of retail management, not one district manager would have accepted the excuse, "well, no ones in the mall today" for below quota figures. No interest in the hobby in your area? Then CREATE interest in the hobby in your area. If I think you're having a mark-down or a big shipment of new merchandise, or a free how-to clinic, I'll be in your store every weekend - and spending MONEY!!! And I'm sure there are many others who will be too!!
A few months ago I found a dealer on eBay who would sell me 100 pieces of Atlas Code 83 flex track for $220, plus Atlas Code 83 #6 switches for $8.33 each. I was interested in purchasing 100 total - 50 right and 50 left. I inquired about, and was given FREE SHIPPING! When I called to pay with my Visa, I found out it was Nagengast Hardware and Hobby in Ridgewood, NY - - - a Local Hobby Shop!!!!. This LHS used to advertise in Model Railroader, and has been in business since 1947!!!! Hans, who I spoke with, was the nicest, friendliest and most courteous person I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Not only did I get Free Shipping, but he told me he would give me an additional discount (7.99 each) for ordering so many switches!!! He ALREADY had my business, so what did he gain by furthering my discount? How about a customer for LIFE!!! It is NO WONDER that this LHS has been going strong for nearly 60 years!!!!!!!! So long TrainWorld (rudest women on Earth!!!), Standard Hobby and Toy Train Heaven! A LHS has outshined you ALL!!
Nagengast Hardware and Hobby has perfected the blueprint for a successful LHS in these changing times….a friendly, competitive local presence with a strong, equally friendly and competitive internet presence. For the cost of a slightly smaller profit margin, they not only closed a $1200 + sale, but gained a big-spending customer for the long haul. Even though I live in Mississippi, my LHS is in New York!!!
Cliff Powers
www.magnoliaroute.com
on30francisco wrote:Several years ago there used to be at least 5 hobby shops in San Francisco. however, there are now only two. I would like to support the LHSs but they very rarely have what I need and I refuse to pay MSRP for big ticket items. The shops here are very skimpy on paints (no Polly Scale) and other detail and scratchbuilding supplies. Besides other hobbies, they cater to garden variety HO (nothing against HO as that's my secondary scale) or collectable Lionel. They are usually either out of stock or don't carry some common HO supplies. I usually go to The Train Shop in Santa Clara, which is a dedicated model RR shop with a good inventory and discount prices, to get detail parts, paints, and other scratchbuilding supplies. The LHSs here say they can order it for me, but heck, I can do that myself - lot cheaper and conveniently - from online retailers. Since my primary interest is On30, I must rely on cottage industries and proprietary manufacturers (which you won't find in Walthers) for some supplies. Besides online merchants, I find a lot of supplies in Pearls, Michaels, and other craft shops. These places are very well-stocked and discounted - they even offer a 10% discount to students and teachers.
claymore1977 wrote: I have entertained the idea of opening my own hobby shop here in White Marsh, MD. The issue I am having is finding that niche that I can offer that no one else has. I remember the shop I went to when I was much younger, and the most attractive part of it (to me) was the 5x9 they had set up in the front of the store.Now that I am older I realize that that was a pretty smart move... showcasing products in action. Even if the hobby shops of today started doing things like showcasing a layout or two and setting up the Thomas the Tank Engine wooden trains for the young audience, I think the youth of today would still not be all that interested. Hence my problem. Anyone have any ideas on how to make a new/existing hobby shop more attractive to the younger demographic?
I have entertained the idea of opening my own hobby shop here in White Marsh, MD. The issue I am having is finding that niche that I can offer that no one else has. I remember the shop I went to when I was much younger, and the most attractive part of it (to me) was the 5x9 they had set up in the front of the store.
Now that I am older I realize that that was a pretty smart move... showcasing products in action. Even if the hobby shops of today started doing things like showcasing a layout or two and setting up the Thomas the Tank Engine wooden trains for the young audience, I think the youth of today would still not be all that interested. Hence my problem.
Anyone have any ideas on how to make a new/existing hobby shop more attractive to the younger demographic?
Do it inside the Town Center or close to it. You might have to fight Kaybee traffic but if done right who knows??
I think the mall's monthly costs will probably eat up your income.
Even a loop showing Thomas in a scenicked area towing a few cars for the kids would get them started. Wooden trains and some electric for them and keep the "Good stuff" for the bigger kids who can tell the difference between a Spectrum and a Genesis. A G Scale engine chugging and whistling along the track will wear your ears out but will slow and stop the people at your storefront.
You probably will end up running a Internet Server and have a small staff taking orders and shipping them out while pulling on your distributor for product for both the store and net sales.
Have a corner of about 6 foot by 6 foot where children can get thier hands on the wooden trains and out of the parent's new BLI engine LOL. Kind of like what they do in Doctor's offices.
I think the best thing a hobby shop can do (if it plans on specializing in model railroading) is to have an operating layout. I would not put up a Thomas the Tank engine display - leave that to the toy stores. It should be something that shows what the "average" modeler can do with the wares you sell.
A good layout might be something like Malcom Furlow's project railroads he did for MR - The San Juan Central or his Carbondale Central. They are simple railroads, that look great and are not outside the ablities of the average hobbiest.
Don't worry about the youngesters not "getting it". They will. And, unlike Thomas, they won't grow out of it.
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
ElMik wrote:I'm gonna put another spin on this. From where I'm sitting a LARGE part of the problem ISN'T the LHS, but rather the "Wal-Mart mentality" of many of today's consumers, (ie, low price is everything while customer service and tech support is worth nothing).... I run a small internet business in another hobby sector, and I've heard time and again "x has this for $y, how come you are $5 more?" And this is often AFTER I've spent hours or sometimes even days explaining options to them and trying make sure that the item in question will fit their needs and abilities. From what I've been reading and seeing, perhaps I should be like many other places and just offer the lowest possible price, dump things on evilBay, only respond to SALES inquiries, and forget about everything else. More money and less headaches, yeah!!!! Nah, not my style....so I guess I should go out of business and good riddance.
I'm gonna put another spin on this. From where I'm sitting a LARGE part of the problem ISN'T the LHS, but rather the "Wal-Mart mentality" of many of today's consumers, (ie, low price is everything while customer service and tech support is worth nothing).... I run a small internet business in another hobby sector, and I've heard time and again "x has this for $y, how come you are $5 more?" And this is often AFTER I've spent hours or sometimes even days explaining options to them and trying make sure that the item in question will fit their needs and abilities. From what I've been reading and seeing, perhaps I should be like many other places and just offer the lowest possible price, dump things on evilBay, only respond to SALES inquiries, and forget about everything else. More money and less headaches, yeah!!!!
Nah, not my style....so I guess I should go out of business and good riddance.
You're 100% correct but these days people don't need advice "tech support" because they can get it from a Google search...or...forums like THIS ONE. Not trying to prove you wrong at all, in fact maybe you should think about that to find a niche or angle that can help your business.
I personally am the kind of person that doesn't need "tech support" or product advice because I dothehomework myself and enjoy doing it too, it only increases my knowledge. I'm the same way with my other great interest - music, especially in purchasing musical instruments or equipment. In fact most bozos who work at Guitar Center usually know *less* about the products that I do. So heck yeah I want the lowest price!
But I DO still support and value LHS for these reasons:
1. The products are THERE, they're tangible. I can try out a Kato loco or see if that 30-degree crossing track will make a good match for a certain kind of turnout. I bought a couple of Atlas plate girder bridges and wanted to kitbash two of them to make a longer one. I also wanted to see what kind of support piers would work. Well, one of my LHS had the Kato Unitrack piers, I opened it up, matched one of the piers with the Atlas bridges and they were a perfect fit! I don't think I could do that online.
2. The "impulse" factor. Oftentimes I'll see a certain product out of the blue and it'll turn into an impulse buy. Of course the stores like that too...This is extremely hard to do online.
3. The social aspect. Even though I don't need tech support or product advice, I'll just chat and shoot the breeze with a store owner, or even a fellow customer. Sometimes modeling techniques are shared. Sometimes actual friendships are forged.
Eriediamond wrote:I'm going to put yet another spin on this and this is just an opinion, not meant to belittle anyone. We, as modellers, with a few exceptions, are not a rich lot. When we buy, it's usually after saveing for an item for a few weeks, or months for an item like a loco. I for one will pay the little extra to buy at a hobbyshop, where I can see what I'm buying and inspect it before the purchase. Let's also face the fact that sociaty as a whole is also changing. Our ideals and careing for one another has slowely gone "south" since the 40's era. That doesn't mean we are bad, but we don't support our towns and communities like we used to and we are loosing our ties to them. Take a look around you. Hobbyshops are not the only ones suffering. Truck stops are no longer truck stops. They are geared up now for the fast lane tourist and the fast buck with fast food. Look how many farms are being turned into subdivisions because the family farmer can no longer afford to run the family farm. It is sad the hobby shops are closeing, but lets not put the blame on them. Years ago, we knew the people we were patronizing, know we only know store names and the people are for the most part strangers. Ken
That has been happening for years on the Mid Atlantic.
I recall one Truckstop on I-70 at the 54 marker in Frederick that was there for many years. But I think it was reduced to a bare dirt lot and a Warehouse type Store built in (Costco?) with the loss of that stop, Truckers have only Jessup, Harrisburg and downtown Baltimore truckstops which are full anyways.
I usually shop at the LHS about 6 months in advance, I plan for a specific item weeks in advance and maybe save a little until it's time to go get it. I may go to the LHS and spend a hundred dollars but leave happy knowing there is more purchases planned for next time. (Not including mandatory deadline pre-orders)
We went to walmart yesterday as part of a small home improvement project that has been ongoing. One of my tasks was to retire the obselete and dangerous kitchen ware and replace it. I spent about 40 dollars and 2 hours evaluating each and all the choices without any walmart staff around at all. I found what I wanted and the items I took home would be satisfactory. But "Big Box" shopping is stressful and not worth the trip on some high-traffic days.
I am old enough to rememeber the 5-10 stores and some other stores in the downtown "Anytown" that had staff that remembered what you got the previous week or month and had a breakfast or lunch line on one side to assist you if you got hungry or thirsty (Hot) during your shopping. Those days are over long ago.
Dont get me started with malls.
I revisit the truckstop being turned into fast food one more time. In Texas there is a Flying J with full service, complete menu 24/7 and wait staff ready to serve very good food. The only issue is parking in the back and the bums near the front door.
Across the Freeway was built a brand new TA truck stop. Inside was a deli, quicky serve mc donalds and NO facilities for rest or tables. The entire facility is designed to get you inside, keep you on your feet and hopefully get you off the property because there is no good place to sit and eat your meal.
That, friends is not what business is about. And my answer is to keep rolling another 20 miles or so to a small place that will cook, serve and feed you for a good price even if it is a few dollars more.
Regarding recent posts about internet sales, I think there always has been mail order and will always be mail order in whatever form. If you had a house such as Klein's out of Baltimore that does a very good job taking care of the hobbyist there isnt a problem.
Now if you had a person in a room in wildwood faraway USA taking internet orders and then turning in those orders to a LHS or Distribution Warehouse acting as a dealer I will have a problem with that.
Metro Red Line wrote: jnichols wrote: George, I can tell you for a fact that many of the online retailers claiming to have stock in a warehouse are just full of crapola. The stores have accounts setup through vendors and various distributors and they simply place your order when you shop and then ship to you once they get it (hence the longish shipping times). The reason I know this is because I am part of a large and growing group of hobby shop owners trying to put them out of business. I personally have no problem with competition from online sources, but they better have a brick and mortar store with inventory in it somewhere open to the public. That is a basic requirement of most manufacturers and all the distributors I deal with, so we should all play by the same rules right? How bout we "out" all the "virtual stores" and also reveal which online retaillers are an actual brick & mortar operation in this forum, so that we can use that information to judge for ourselves whether we want to choose between the two.
jnichols wrote: George, I can tell you for a fact that many of the online retailers claiming to have stock in a warehouse are just full of crapola. The stores have accounts setup through vendors and various distributors and they simply place your order when you shop and then ship to you once they get it (hence the longish shipping times). The reason I know this is because I am part of a large and growing group of hobby shop owners trying to put them out of business. I personally have no problem with competition from online sources, but they better have a brick and mortar store with inventory in it somewhere open to the public. That is a basic requirement of most manufacturers and all the distributors I deal with, so we should all play by the same rules right?
George,
I can tell you for a fact that many of the online retailers claiming to have stock in a warehouse are just full of crapola. The stores have accounts setup through vendors and various distributors and they simply place your order when you shop and then ship to you once they get it (hence the longish shipping times). The reason I know this is because I am part of a large and growing group of hobby shop owners trying to put them out of business. I personally have no problem with competition from online sources, but they better have a brick and mortar store with inventory in it somewhere open to the public. That is a basic requirement of most manufacturers and all the distributors I deal with, so we should all play by the same rules right?
How bout we "out" all the "virtual stores" and also reveal which online retaillers are an actual brick & mortar operation in this forum, so that we can use that information to judge for ourselves whether we want to choose between the two.
I really don't care if a store is a virtual store or not. All I care about is whether they can sell me what I want at a good price and deliver it to me in a reasonable amount of time. I also expect that if there is a problem with what they deliver to me, they will take care of it. If they do those things, they will get my business again. If not, I will shop elsewhere.
jnichols wrote:George, I can tell you for a fact that many of the online retailers claiming to have stock in a warehouse are just full of crapola. The stores have accounts setup through vendors and various distributors and they simply place your order when you shop and then ship to you once they get it (hence the longish shipping times). The reason I know this is because I am part of a large and growing group of hobby shop owners trying to put them out of business. I personally have no problem with competition from online sources, but they better have a brick and mortar store with inventory in it somewhere open to the public. That is a basic requirement of most manufacturers and all the distributors I deal with, so we should all play by the same rules right?
Here's something to file in the "for what it's worth" department.I recently ordered some (12 pieces) of HOn3 (Micro Engineering) flex track from my LHS. He didn't have it in stock, but said he would order it for me. On the exact same day, I ordered some HOn3 switches from a well know internet model railroad site. I used the pay on line option and their on-line catalogue said the items I requested were in stock. It is 8 days later the owner of my LHS called me and said my flex track was in. I had not, however, heard anything about my switches from the large internet store. So I sent them an email. They responded saying "well its the Holiday Season and it was taking a while to get their stock from their warehouse, yada, yada, yada. And I could expect my order to shipped early next week."Now, I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night. I will bet anyone dollars to donoughts that said internet retailer doesn't have a warehouse and if they did the items I requested weren't in stock when I ordered them. They probably had to order them from Walthers, just like my LHS, and instead of being honest with me when I inquired about my order, they fed me a **** and bull story! And I am still waiting for my switches. Local Hobby Shop 1Internet Retailer 0-George
Here's something to file in the "for what it's worth" department.
I recently ordered some (12 pieces) of HOn3 (Micro Engineering) flex track from my LHS. He didn't have it in stock, but said he would order it for me. On the exact same day, I ordered some HOn3 switches from a well know internet model railroad site. I used the pay on line option and their on-line catalogue said the items I requested were in stock.
It is 8 days later the owner of my LHS called me and said my flex track was in. I had not, however, heard anything about my switches from the large internet store. So I sent them an email. They responded saying "well its the Holiday Season and it was taking a while to get their stock from their warehouse, yada, yada, yada. And I could expect my order to shipped early next week."
Now, I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night.
I will bet anyone dollars to donoughts that said internet retailer doesn't have a warehouse and if they did the items I requested weren't in stock when I ordered them. They probably had to order them from Walthers, just like my LHS, and instead of being honest with me when I inquired about my order, they fed me a **** and bull story!
And I am still waiting for my switches.
Local Hobby Shop 1
Internet Retailer 0
YoHo1975 wrote: Drugstores that only sell drugs? What kind of alternate reality were you living in? Drug stores have also been 5 and Dimes since forever. Often with a really nice lunch counter to boot. Now adays the problem isn't what they sell, it's that they're all either Walgreens, Rite-aide or CVS. They do have drugstores in grocers/supermarkets a lot more now, but that hasn't reduced the number of stand alones one bit.
Drugstores that only sell drugs? What kind of alternate reality were you living in?
Drug stores have also been 5 and Dimes since forever. Often with a really nice lunch counter to boot.
Now adays the problem isn't what they sell, it's that they're all either Walgreens, Rite-aide or CVS.
They do have drugstores in grocers/supermarkets a lot more now, but that hasn't reduced the number of stand alones one bit.
Yup! That's the way I remember the Rexall in the town where I grew up (West Chester PA). While their stock in trade was pharma... pharme... (nuts!) medicines, they had just a little bit of everything. I remember many a happy day after school stopping there and having a hamburger and a milk shake - made with milk, syrup and ice cream - not a frozen custard.
The best part was there was a nice little mom and pop hobby shop right around the corner.
jecorbett wrote: NeO6874 wrote: jfugate wrote:But times are changing. What youngster today knows what it was like as kid to go to the drive in theater? Or to have a half-dozen drive-in theaters to chose from if you wanted to go to a movie on a Friday or Saturday night? depending on what you consider "Youngster"... I know of TWO drive-in theaters, granted they're a bit far... but a double feature for $8 a car (unless they've changed prives since June '06) is worth it! Especially when at the closer "regular" theater it's $8/person. You mean you don't have to sneak two people through the front gate riding in the trunk of the car anymore. Wow, times have changed. Drive-ins used to charge by the head.
NeO6874 wrote: jfugate wrote:But times are changing. What youngster today knows what it was like as kid to go to the drive in theater? Or to have a half-dozen drive-in theaters to chose from if you wanted to go to a movie on a Friday or Saturday night? depending on what you consider "Youngster"... I know of TWO drive-in theaters, granted they're a bit far... but a double feature for $8 a car (unless they've changed prives since June '06) is worth it! Especially when at the closer "regular" theater it's $8/person.
jfugate wrote:But times are changing. What youngster today knows what it was like as kid to go to the drive in theater? Or to have a half-dozen drive-in theaters to chose from if you wanted to go to a movie on a Friday or Saturday night?
depending on what you consider "Youngster"... I know of TWO drive-in theaters, granted they're a bit far... but a double feature for $8 a car (unless they've changed prives since June '06) is worth it! Especially when at the closer "regular" theater it's $8/person.
You mean you don't have to sneak two people through the front gate riding in the trunk of the car anymore. Wow, times have changed. Drive-ins used to charge by the head.
yeah, well... as joe said - there aren't that many....
I bet it's also due to the fact that they can only be realistically open up here (Cleveland, OH) for like 3 - 3.5 months. If I remember right, the double-feature is/was usually a new movie, followed by a not so new movie (maybe 3-6 months or more out of the "big" theaters). So this is probably the best way for them to compete (they still kill you on the popcorn* and snacks and stuff).
*You can't enjoy a movie without movie-theater popcorn.
Stevearino wrote:Mr. Fugate, I know you meant that they should have a website in addition to their actual store, but to me, a BIG part of the hobby is going into that LHS and just looking around for a while. I always buy something, but since I don't have a layout yet and my budget is small, being a window shopper can be fun. Steve
Mr. Fugate, I know you meant that they should have a website in addition to their actual store, but to me, a BIG part of the hobby is going into that LHS and just looking around for a while. I always buy something, but since I don't have a layout yet and my budget is small, being a window shopper can be fun.
Steve
I love to go in a shop and 'graze' as I call it. Problem is, most shops do NOT have a varied enough inventory to keep me coming back again and again. When DK&B in Hightstown closed up (my LHS), I had to scare up another good shop. The Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway is okay, but they've got so much stuff blocking show cases you can't see what's in them. And the stock they have on the floor isn't that great. You have to ask for help, and I hate that.
Other shops I've been in don't have much of a stock on hand; they all say they can order it from Walthers. If I have to go that route, why drive an hour or more to a shop anyway, what with gas prices going back up again.
That's why the internet has been such a stake in the heart for many shops. If you ain't got a web presence, you ain't got a prayer! I wish we had a shop in the Northeast like Caboose Hobbies - hell, I'd drive over an hour for that kind of place.
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
I tend to buy the everyday stuff, (track, turnouts, railjoiners, paints, glue) from the LHS but the big ticket items I buy from e-tailiers. The savings are just too great. With structure kits, I go either way. Sometimes the convenience of having it immediately outweighs the cost savings, sometimes it doesn't.
I don't fret about stories of an LHS closing. In every business, there are companies that make it and those that don't. When an LHS or any other business closes its doors, it is usually because they didn't have a good business plan to start with or didn't adjust to changing business conditions. The business world is Darwinian. The day may come when most or all of our shopping is done on line. If that happens, it will be because we as customers have voted with our dollars that we prefer it that way. If we prefer shopping at our LHS, we will keep them in business. I happen to think that the brick and mortar stores can still offer something that e-tailers can't. Time will tell.
Loco: Go over to Model Railroad forums. Bob Boudreau, posted a clinic on model railroad photography. It is good and well worth making a hard copy of.
There is a small hobby shop in Denton Texas that is doing a good business. He pays for all his stock at the time he orders so he has a lower overhead. The savings he passes on to his customers. It's a long drive up ther for me but the savings make it worth while on large orders. For the small stuff I'll hit the lhs's on my way home or make a list and get a bunch of stuff at once.
Good Riddance
I bet he was full priced and just learned how to discount when he was retiring!!!!!????
What was stopping HIM from being an 'internet discounter" other than his own lack of business sense?
cacole wrote:Hardware stores that sold only hardware.
Still have one or two of those around... I *love* the mom&pop stores when I need to find something fast...
EG:
Me - (to clerk/owner) "I need a pound and a half of inch and three quarter drywall screws"
Clerk/Owner - "OK, go three aisles back, take a left at the (some display thing); they're in the third drawer in from the aisle, second from the top"
(2 mins later)
Clerk/Owner - "That'll be $2.83"...(pay/get change)..."Thanks and have a nice day"
cacole wrote:Drug stores that sold only pharmaceuticals.
nope, none of those
Well, Let's see here:
How about the milkman delivering milk twice a week, or more often for the larger families?
How about the bookmobile coming around to the towns without a library?
How's about 3 TV channels, with rabbit ears to bring them in, and the interest generated when PBS started broadcasting? A FOURTH CHANNEL!
How's about no personal computers, no cell phones, no internet per se, your choice of music delivery: (live, LP or reel-to-reel), no seatbelts in cars or trucks, just to name a few.
My own kids think I lived somewhere back towards the end of the stoneage when I list the things that have come into use in my own lifetime. Yes, I miss being able to poke around the lHS and look at all the things available, and grousse and swap stories with other folks, but it's changing as well.
The only business model that will work to compete against an online store is one that can match prices and depends upon volume sales to make a profit, and that's the rare breed these days. The killer is the overhead. Being online means you don't NEED an extra storefront, all those shelves, lights, cleaning, extra phone, etc. Folks tend to forget about the HUGE bill that comes due each month BEFORE any profit might be taken. I had around $2500.00 come due the first of each month for rent, utilities, insurance, etc. That was before I could pay myself or even think about profits.
What that translates to is that I had to sell $6250.00 worth of merchandise at MSRP just to cover my overhead. That's aroubnd a $1000.00 each and every week just to have a store and keep the lights on. Lord help you if you have an off week, or get sick and can't open the store. That means you have to generate even more sales the following week to catch up. Now let's talk about having to pay yourself so you can pay the mortgage, put food on the table for the family, etc.
The advantage an online seller has is tremendous. He doesn't NEED a lot of space, and the comments about working out of a garage or basement or absolutely true. As long as you have an open line of credit and a good and reliable delivery system, you don't need to stock a lot of merchandise. You can drop ship from the manufacturer to your customer and keep a minimal stock of high-turnover items in inventory. That frees up cash to earn interest for you rather than sitting dead in unsold-stock on a shelf. That online sellers saves the $2500.00 I spent by NOT having a store, and that means he's generating that much for his own use on the same sales before I could ever make a dime. OKAY, yes, he has to pay for his internet srvice and telephone bills, etc, but even listing that cost as 20% of the profit, that still leaves him with 2 grand a month more than the brick and mortar store owner.
It's a business, plain and simple, and the bottom line is a cold hard calculus.
Yes, I miss the LHS. No, I don't mind at all saving money by buying online.