The "N" Crowd

[R. T. POTEET]

Hey dave im with you onthe whole MR needs more nscale thing i dont mind reading about O scale but when it comes to HO it makes me jealous that there is no n scale this month.

BTW im getting a SD70M from Kato and i want to Know how it runs it should run fine,,,also im getting an DD40AX its probably somewhat rare. it is n scale

Huh????

[CraigN]

The Sad part is that leaves me with one engine I can run on my layout right now. my Atlas B40-8...all of my Katos that fit my era that I have are 6 axel and don't have the long shanked couplers on them so when they go around the curves(15") they derail the first car. The only other thing I have that is usable has the same problem my Katos do, its an Athearn SD70M and it derails the first car becuase it needs long couplers. I think I might replace all my curves with Sectional curves. Becuase I can run my coal train with my Kato SD70M and my Kato AC4400CW on the 9 3/4 no problem. but for some reason they derail on my layout. Any thoughts anyone?

I don't understand , do you have 15" radius curves or 15 " diameter?

With 15 inch radius, you shouldn't have any problems with the shorter couplers.

[R. T. POTEET]

More MR anti-N bias...

Once again, the March MR gives us 2 HO and 2 O scale full product reviews.  There was a "quick look" at the N scale Galloping Goose...

Come on!  Is MR telling us that O scale is just as popular as HO, and more popular than N?  That's not what the polls typically say.  With all the new N scale stuff coming out, they couldn't find anything to review?  They could do a full review on an Atlas product each month for cryin' out loud!  The N scale market's never been more exciting!!!

Seems like the last good N scale feature was David Popp's layout.  If MR keeps up its recent trend with avoiding N scale, it will loose me as a subscriber.

Gotta take a little bit of an exception with you on this one, Dave.  Model Railroader - and RMC also, for that matter - does not have the circulation to solicit manuscripts; they rely upon the readership to submit items for (possible) publication.  If it ain't submitted then it ain't gonna be published.

I, too, would like to see more N-Scale coverage in the pages of the (voluminous) hobby press - read: Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman; I do not, however, expect that to happen on an issue to issue basis, at least not in the foreseeable future.  I have my own disappointments with the exclusive N-Scale publications; I seldom really encounter a "product review" feature such as found in Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman.

One would suppose that, since N-Scale accounts for approximately 13% - my figures may be off but it is an immaterial factor at this point - of the modeling public, then they - the hobby magazines - should have approximately 13% of their magazine given over to N-Scale coverage; as we all know that certainly is not the case.  Remember, however, that N-Scale has two magazines devoted exclusively to that - our - particular scale.  There is also a magazine - actually two, one tinplate and one two-rail scale - devoted to 0-Scale, and S-Scale, with a following only a fraction of N-Scale, has their unique publication.  Their is no magazine - to the best of my knowledge, anyway - titled HO-Scale or HO-Scale Railroading.  Whether we wish to acknowledge the fact or not Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman are (predominantly) HO-Scale although that scale does not appear anywhere in their mastheads.

I do not crack open one of my N-Scale magazines and expect to find an article on an HO-Scale subject.  The same would be true for an article with S-Scale orientation.  I think if you went back and checked it you might find that a preponderance of N-Scale coverage in MR and RMC are layout oriented.  Over 70% of the modelling fraternity is in HO - a layout, however, is a layout whether it is constructed in 16.5 mm gauge, or 10.5 mm gauge,  or 9mm gauge or 1.25 inch gauge ad nausium.  Layouts intrigue me and I have certainly enjoyed the photos of yours that you have posted here on the forum.

Certainly, we need to continue to support our exclusive N-Scale publications - after all, they give us 12-15 scale-unique articles per month.  I will continue to subscribe to Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman.  There is seldom an issue in which I do not find something practically useful; admittedly an article on "Kitbashing a Sneaky Falls and Western 0-4-0T from an Athearn Big Boy is of dubious interest to me but there is enough in their publications to keep my interest perked for a couple of days.  (Incidently I can't give up RMC because it has Collector's Consist in it and that is the first thing read each month.  I may not read anything else but I do read Collector's Consist)

I don't know whether you have ever submitted an article to either MR or RMC;  I haven't!!  Many years ago, however, I did submit a short story to Playboy magazine; they hung onto it for eleven months before finally returning it as "unpublishable".  Awhile back I was going through some boxes and ran into a stack of Manila folders; and there, in one, I found a copy of that short story.  And, as disappointed as I was at the moment, as I read it I realized that it was "unpublishable" - at least not without considerable editing.  As I reread it after all these years I realized just how naive I was in those heady days of yesteryear.  Damned Good Story!  Poor Construction and Imagery!  I am tempted to redo it with all of the composition skills I have acquired over the years but I could not resubmit it as I understand that Playboy magazine no longer accepts unsolicited manuscripts.  I don't know how many articles the two major hobby press publications receive each month; I suspect it is probably less than 13% percent because HO-Scalers have fewer places to go for their publishing ambitions; I also suspect that a good many of them are "unpublishable as submitted" and they - the magazines - simply lack the editorial staff to doctor them up to publishing standards..

You are not, Dave, in this regard any less disappointed in the N-Scale coverage in MR and RMC than I am; I would, hovever, encourage you to continue to support them because they are generally available on (open) newsstands (as opposed to hobby shops) and, therefore, are great tools for introducing people to the hobby.  It was that way in my case at Vandenberg Air Force Base way back in July of 1962.  I still have those magazines and I still read them!  

[Dave Vollmer]

I'm wondering where the 13% of us being N scale comes from.  I have to wonder if that's an older statistic.  I have to believe there's more of us now.  I hear of many more folks switching from other scales to N as opposed to switching up from N.

In addition to the lack of N products in the MR Product Reviews they also hardly ever put anything meaningful for N in the Product News.  Yes, we know Micro Trains puts out a new run each month.  But there's gobs of N scale stuff from all over that never quite makes it to MR.  Yet, NSR can devote 4-5 pages for new stuff plus another 2 to recently announced products.

As long as MR's trend seems to be giant HO layouts and why you have to have DCC (which I do, but I don't think it has to be a holy grail), it's going to be les relavent to me.

I know MR can't be everything for everyone, but while all indications are (although I have no proof) that N scale is growing at the expense of other scales, since 2000 its percentage of coverage in MR seems to have decreased.  Since the demise of David Popp's column, it's been hard to find relavent goodies in MR.  Yes, some things are independent of scale, and for that I'll probably keep my subscription anyway.

I've considered submitting my layout for MR someday.  Small and N ought to be a nice balance for HUGE and HO.

[R. T. POTEET]

Dave, I stated in my post that I was not sure of the accuracy of my 13% figure; I suspect that it is terribly outdated.  The figure should, I surmise, probably be closer to 20%.  N-Scale is indeed growing and an analysis of some of the postings and the responses to specific postings indicates that even some HO stalwarts have either already changed gauges or are, at least, exploring facets of N-Scale that indicates they are giving careful consideration to changing.

I would agree with you that the "Product News" feature for N-Scale is pitifully small - I wonder, however, if that is not self-fulfilling prophecy on behalf of (N-Scale) manufacturers - they are receiving their expectations.

EXAMPLE:

A few years back an article in N-Scale magazine attracted my attention.  The author referenced a product - I believe it had something to do with a GP9B - manufactured by a company in Texas - which I had never heard of.  Neither, for that matter, had my LHS owner.  The company did not appear in the directory of model railroad manufacturers and hadn't for two years.  I never found reference one in either MR or RMC.  I eventually located an ad in a mid-90s N-Scale magazine but when I called the cited telephone number I got somebody else and the gracious lady who answered the phone informed me that that company had nothing whatsoever to do with the model railroad business and, furthermore, had had that particular number for at least FIVE years.  When I batted this matter around the model railroad club HE WHO KNOWS ALL (and, admittedly, he does) informed me that that company/manufacturer had ceased production and operation in 1997!!!

It could well be that the reason MR and RMC never printed a "Product News" item about this company is because, like me, they knew nothing whatsoever about them.  The manufacturer may have concluded that the major press would never include a note on his company and product and, therefore, never made himself known.

As an aside, I understand that the magazines, with certain exceptions, require a sampling of the product being referenced if the manufacturer is requesting a "Product News" inclusion.  I may be wrong on that but it could explain why this particular company failed to get noted in the "Product News".

[Mailman56701]

I'm wondering where the 13% of us being N scale comes from.  I have to wonder if that's an older statistic.  I have to believe there's more of us now.  I hear of many more folks switching from other scales to N as opposed to switching up from N.

In addition to the lack of N products in the MR Product Reviews they also hardly ever put anything meaningful for N in the Product News.  Yes, we know Micro Trains puts out a new run each month.  But there's gobs of N scale stuff from all over that never quite makes it to MR.  Yet, NSR can devote 4-5 pages for new stuff plus another 2 to recently announced products.

As long as MR's trend seems to be giant HO layouts and why you have to have DCC (which I do, but I don't think it has to be a holy grail), it's going to be les relavent to me.

I know MR can't be everything for everyone, but while all indications are (although I have no proof) that N scale is growing at the expense of other scales, since 2000 its percentage of coverage in MR seems to have decreased.  Since the demise of David Popp's column, it's been hard to find relavent goodies in MR.  Yes, some things are independent of scale, and for that I'll probably keep my subscription anyway.

I've considered submitting my layout for MR someday.  Small and N ought to be a nice balance for HUGE and HO.

 

  Agreed.  Have to say, it gets a bit old seeing the same old, "Hi, I'm John Doe.  I'm a retired (insert high paying white collar professional here), and since I've retired, I now have two things completely not in common with (most ?) the readers of MRR; lots of money and time both.  And btw, all my kids have long since grown up and started their own lives.
  So, let me show you my basement sized layout, that you haven't a chance in hell of ever attaining......" (assuming one even wants to in the first place)

  I admire these layouts and their makers, no doubt.  But it'd be nice to show something besides the "top of the line" type layouts.  And to do it more than once an eon, and then be told, "See ?  We do to offer other styles"  :)

  That, and the definitions of "easy" and "small" seem to be a bit skewed :)

   As someone who has only subscribed to the magazine for just over a year/started the hobby at the same time, I believe such a style can actually be a detrimate to newcomers; there are many enjoyable levels to the hobby, and it can be easy to think, via the pages of MRR, that there is only one or close to it.

  I was particularly disappointed with a fairly recent article that listed a number of "must haves" for an "acceptable" layout, and that list included dcc, sound, and various other *expensive* goodies.

   Having said that rant :), I do actually enjoy the magazine overall and will gladly re-subscribe in the future.

   But I am enjoying my issue of "N Scale Railroading" that came today (new subscriber).

[SimRacin40]

Some of my recently acquired N-Scale stuff. :)

 

A Southern GP18,#ed 177. I also bought a similar one #ed 175. They're Life-Like,but they can pull.Had them pulling a 40 car train the other night with ease. 

 

I like quite a few lines(especially anything that ran in Kentucky),but I've decided to narrow down my two priority lines: Louisville & Nashville and Southern. I like CSX,Conrail,Chessie System,C&O,but if I did all of them I'd constantly be buying locomotives,and I wouldn't be getting anywhere. I like R.J. Corman because it's my local line,so I might buy some more recent equipment to run with them.(Maybe a few CSX/Chessie Locomotives at some point) 

[R. T. POTEET]

This topic has sure gotten peaceful of late.  Can anybody think of anything to fight about?  Anybody working on anything to fight about?

[MAbruce]

I'm wondering where the 13% of us being N scale comes from.  I have to wonder if that's an older statistic.  I have to believe there's more of us now.  I hear of many more folks switching from other scales to N as opposed to switching up from N.

This is purely non-scientific, but it's interesting that I just checked eBay and the N-scale auctions represented 14% of the overall model railroad auctions.  Pretty close to that 13% figure...

As far as lack of N-scale product reviews in MR, I'd think that companies like Atlas that advertise in the magazine would speak up at some point.  If they don't, then they're not concerned for whatever reason. Perhaps that reason could be that not many N-scale modelers subscribe?  So maybe they instead seek out the N-scale specific magazines for their N-scale advertising?   This would not put much pressure on MR to do many N-scale product reviews.

 

[NS2591]

The Sad part is that leaves me with one engine I can run on my layout right now. my Atlas B40-8...all of my Katos that fit my era that I have are 6 axel and don't have the long shanked couplers on them so when they go around the curves(15") they derail the first car. The only other thing I have that is usable has the same problem my Katos do, its an Athearn SD70M and it derails the first car becuase it needs long couplers. I think I might replace all my curves with Sectional curves. Becuase I can run my coal train with my Kato SD70M and my Kato AC4400CW on the 9 3/4 no problem. but for some reason they derail on my layout. Any thoughts anyone?

I don't understand , do you have 15" radius curves or 15 " diameter?

With 15 inch radius, you shouldn't have any problems with the shorter couplers.

Well I got looking at it on Wensday (1-30-07) and Discovered that the curve was not the issue but rather that there was a kink at the joint between Switch and flextrack. so I replaced that track and now everything runs through. I still have the problem with the intermountain Tunnel motors

[Agamemnon]

I admire these layouts and their makers, no doubt.  But it'd be nice to show something besides the "top of the line" type layouts.  And to do it more than once an eon, and then be told, "See ?  We do to offer other styles"  :)

  That, and the definitions of "easy" and "small" seem to be a bit skewed :)

I'm going to have to agree with you there. There sure are a lot of basement empires in the mag, and it's getting a bit tedious. I mean, I could not get a layout that big even though I won the lottery, reason being you don't build houses like that in Europe. We don't have basements! :-O

[Metro Red Line]

This is purely non-scientific, but it's interesting that I just checked eBay and the N-scale auctions represented 14% of the overall model railroad auctions.  Pretty close to that 13% figure...

 

eBay auctions are not an accurate indicator oh scale representation of the hobby. O scale auctions are by far the most dominant in the eBay world, far eclipsing HO. 

[Anonymous]

I made some changes to the drawing. If you copied the original, delete it and use this one. 

I have created a schematic for a Atlas switch machine with LEDs. This circuit would be used on a control panel.

You can view it at:

http://img.i172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/n0ssy/TrackswitchingcircuitwithmedbrightL.jpg

 

Dewayne

 

[NS2591]

Today I layed down one of the 3 passing tracks. So Now I have 2 of the 3 in service. So today I got to operate my layout how it will be sometime soon. If I can get the rest of the UP5s bought and in place and the Torti bought and in place. Along with the other odds and ends I need for the layout then all I'll need then are decoders for almost every loco I own with the exception of my Kato SD70M and my Kato AC4400CW which already have decoders. I also need to get some more cash together and get the pair of Dash 9s and the Pair of SD40-2s off a club member...I need a job...sorry getting off topic. Since today I got to operate my layout how it will be sometime in the future I also demostrated how easily you can run into yourself head on if you forget to line the switch for the proper direction of travel

[nscaler711]

RT what is wrong with u why do u want to fight with people u dont know people who r older younger or same age as u ........... we are all here for the love of n-scale trains

[R. T. POTEET]

RT what is wrong with u why do u want to fight with people u dont know people who r older younger or same age as u ........... we are all here for the love of n-scale trains

HUH????

[Dave Vollmer]

Well, I passed my written PhD candidacy exams.  Now I can do a little more N scale modeling.  Up next is adding a Trainphone antenna to the new GP9 I got for Christmas.

[R. T. POTEET]

Well, I passed my written PhD candidacy exams.  Now I can do a little more N scale modeling.  Up next is adding a Trainphone antenna to the new GP9 I got for Christmas.

Congratulations!!  Can we continue to call you Dave or would you prefer we begin referring to you as The Great Pooh-bah?

ATTN; NSCALER711 - I KNOW YOU ARE NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND THIS RESPONSE SO LET ME PRE-RESPOND TO YOUR  RESPONSE TO MY RESPONSE; HUH???

[R. T. POTEET]

RT what is wrong with u why do u want to fight with people u dont know people who r older younger or same age as u ........... we are all here for the love of n-scale trains

Why aren't you spending quality time with your Remedial English tutor this morning?

[Dave Vollmer]

Well, I passed my written PhD candidacy exams.  Now I can do a little more N scale modeling.  Up next is adding a Trainphone antenna to the new GP9 I got for Christmas.

Congratulations!!  Can we continue to call you Dave or would you prefer we begin referring to you as The Great Pooh-bah?

ATTN; NSCALER711 - I KNOW YOU ARE NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND THIS RESPONSE SO LET ME PRE-RESPOND TO YOUR  RESPONSE TO MY RESPONSE; HUH???

Still just Dave...  The writtens are just part of the picture.  Still have orals, the dissertation, and the defense to go.  Baby steps...

[claymore1977]

RT what is wrong with u why do u want to fight with people u dont know people who r older younger or same age as u ........... we are all here for the love of n-scale trains

Why aren't you spending quality time with your Remedial English tutor this morning?

Wow, just because people aren't bickering doesn't mean you should go out and try to pick a fight.   That being said, there are much nicer ways to tell nscaler711 that it would benefit him and all those who read is posts for him to spend a minute or two extra checking his spelling & grammar... perhaps a Private Message?

[R. T. POTEET]

Well, I passed my written PhD candidacy exams.  Now I can do a little more N scale modeling.  Up next is adding a Trainphone antenna to the new GP9 I got for Christmas.

Congratulations!!  Can we continue to call you Dave or would you prefer we begin referring to you as The Great Pooh-bah?

ATTN; NSCALER711 - I KNOW YOU ARE NOT GOING TO
 UNDERSTAND THIS RESPONSE SO LET ME PRE-RESPOND TO YOUR  RESPONSE TO MY RESPONSE; HUH???

Still just Dave...  The writtens are just part of the picture.  Still have orals, the dissertation, and the defense to go.  Baby steps...

I have a granddaughter who just entered her doctoral program (chemistry) at the University of Illinois-Champaign/Urbana.  She may be just a little bit further along than you but not much; I haven't talked to her in awhile but I know that you and she both have awesome tasks ahead of you.  I  was 2/3 of the way through my master's program in history when I dropped out in 1981; I wanted to concentrate on my fiction writing but I've kind of dropped out of that also. 

[R. T. POTEET]

RT what is wrong with u why do u want to fight with people u dont know people who r older younger or same age as u ........... we are all here for the love of n-scale trains

Why aren't you spending quality time with your Remedial English tutor this morning?

Wow, just because people aren't bickering doesn't mean you should go out and try to pick a fight.   That being said, there are much nicer ways to tell nscaler711 that it would benefit him and all those who read is posts for him to spend a minute or two extra checking his spelling & grammar... perhaps a Private Message?

claymore1977, my "Pick a Fight" response was generated by the fact that when I went looking for The "N" Crowd last Thursday evening I found it way back on page 5.  I put something in just so that I could bring it back up to page 1.  My response was meant to be jocular.  (For you people in Columbia, Missouri that means "funny").  I don't pick fights with anybody; I will own up that I have got into some brouhahas here on the forum involving points of view regarding modelling.  No one else appears to have taken my response seriously; do you have any idea why nscaler711 did?

(Notice that I did not say in this response that I wish that nscaler711 would stop responding to my responses because I do not have the time or assets to retain an interpreter who can translate Missouri for me!  I was inclined to do that but I practiced restraint!)

[MAbruce]

This is purely non-scientific, but it's interesting that I just checked eBay and the N-scale auctions represented 14% of the overall model railroad auctions.  Pretty close to that 13% figure...

eBay auctions are not an accurate indicator oh scale representation of the hobby. O scale auctions are by far the most dominant in the eBay world, far eclipsing HO. 

Ah, didn't I say it was purely non-scientific??

I also suggest that you recheck your numbers.  I just checked the MRR auction totals and HO leads 0 scale:

HO:  27,048 (42% of the acutions)

O:  20,746 (32% of the auctions)

Sure these numbers will fluctuate, but I don't see how you can possibly say that "O scale auctions are by far the most dominant in the eBay world, far eclipsing HO."  Without going into detail, I'm certain that there are many other eBay categories that far eclipse all of MRR'ing combined!

[andrechapelon]

HO:  27,048 (42% of the acutions)

O:  20,746 (32% of the auctions)

Sure these numbers will fluctuate, but I don't see how you can possibly say that "O scale auctions are by far the most dominant in the eBay world, far eclipsing HO."  Without going into detail, I'm certain that there are many other eBay categories that far eclipse all of MRR'ing combined!

Also, don't put too much stock in the O auctions as they include both 2 rail O SCALE and three rail O GAUGE. Much of the 3 rail stuff in under sized for fully scale O.

Andre

[pcarrell]

WOW, tough room!

While I agree that it is much easier to read a well written and carefully thought out response, I also know that there are people here on the forum who are from different backgrounds, and indeed some of them are from other countries and this may be the only place that they get to "practice" their english. 

It used to bother me more in the past when I tried to read a poorly constructed post, but I've learned to try to see it from the other persons point of view.  For example, on another forum I frequent, there is a guy on there who writes very poorly.  I'm not sure why, because he seems intelligent, maybe he doesn't proof read, maybe he doesn't care, but reading some of his posts is like trying to decipher a forgien language.  But I try to figure out what he's talking about and then respond to him because that's what I would want someone to do for me.  I don't use perfect english all the time, and I expect a little mercy for my occasional butchery of the language.  I try to extend that to others as well.

Some minor civility and some allowences for each others faults might go a long way towards all of us being able to converse in a much more productive, and friendly, manner.

R.T., in the past, as you admit, there have been some instances of,.......ummmm,......tension.  When I read your post the other day I almost asked what was up with that myself, but I wrote it off.  But I can see where the others are coming from.  You tend to be very outspoken, and I like that about you.  But you have to realize that when you is in the position of being the outspoken one, it's very possible that some my take you wrong and not understand what you're saying.  Many great leaders of the past have fallen prey to this very thing.  See, the thing is, others can't know what you're thinking when you say things, unless you're VERY clear.  The less clear you are, the more risk you run of being misunderstood.  You're post the other day could easily be taken a couple of ways.  When someone voiced a misunderstanding of your meaning, it might have been a good time to calmly and carefully have explained what you really meant so that the very thing we see here might have been avoided.

All, R.T. is a valued member of this forum and a friend of the hobby, and because of that, he is a friend of ours.  We should treat him, and everyone else, as such.

Now, what do you say we put this all behind us and move on, huh?

Dave, congarts on the "next step"!  I'm a ways behind you myself, but your diligence is an inspiration.  Keep it up!

A question for the group: What is the story on the Bachmann 2-6-6-2?  I've heard this thing is a dog, that it can't get out of it's own way.  I've heard that it can't haul five or six cars up a 1% grade.  Is this true?  I was thinking of getting one, and I'm not scared to tinker, but is it a lost cause?  Is it just so riddled with problems that it should be avoided like the plague?

[nscaler711]

RT well if u dont want me to respond back then dont comment me

also i dont speak in a way that most missourians do, in fact i hate this state it sucks. hardly any hobby stores that supply n scale, and the weather is well terrible too hot too cold never in between 

also my brain goes 3x as fast as my fingers therefore i forget what im going to type before i actually type it........also jocular isnt used any more......perhaps before my time  

all i want to do is get back to my fav. thing in the world, trains, n-scale at least 

finally Nscale.net is a great forum place

[Anonymous]

I made some changes to the control panel schematic. Please view the new drawing in my original post.

Dewayne

 

[pcarrell]

Aww, come on now guys!  Page 6!?!

[R. T. POTEET]

Aww, come on now guys!  Page 6!?!

Thanks, Philip.  I have a question which I am going to broach to the (N-Scale) readership but I believe I will wait until this coming weekend to post it; it is not necessarily uniquely N-Scale although it is pointed in an N-Scale direction and involves an article published in one of the (N-Scale) hobby mags a few years back.  I will guarantee you that this will end the weekend on page one or two.