The "N" Crowd

[NS2591]

Hey Guys, I went out railfanning today, And did I get lucky. On my way home I caught GTW 4909, Which for around here isn't all that uncommon to get a still blue GTW engine. I chased it out to Durand Mi and then back to Flint Mi, When I got to Flint I got a shot from the parking lot and asked the crew if I could get in the cab and get some shots from the cab. Email me offlist if you want to see some Interior shots

[Zandoz]

N as in Newbie here.  So far I'm only up to page 25 of this info-packed thread...and still working my way down the line...but I thought I'd pipe in with a couple questions. 

My vary vague at this point concept of my layout theme is going to be mythilogical small town.  A few simple small town switching destinations like a grain elevator, maybe a small fuel depot (coal and/or oil), a team track/small freight station, and of course a small town passenger station for the the Super Chiefs to stop at. Oh, and it's got to have a thru truss bridge.  I know...wierd...but that's me.  All of this on a footprint around 36-48" by 72-80"...aiming for the lower numbers as much as possible/practical.  This is going to be a somewhat portable diningroom tabel set up...for painting and other messy things, it's going to be a fair weather summer time picnic table set up.

• My plan is to model 50s or so Santa Fe...the Kato Super Chiefs are what got me interested in N.  Anyway, I have no clue as to what would be an appropriate local switcher for that period SF.   Of course I'm looking for the equivalent of the holy grail...inexpensive and good quality, and being DCC ready/friendly.  Anyone have any thoughts?
• The second topic of puzzlement is more basic.  Are the terms "DCC ready" and "DCC friendly" interchangeable?  If not, what is the difference?
• Two thoughts at this point...a double main or kind of a pseudo double main that's really a twice around.  Thoughs?  Also, any examples of good plans in my size would be greatly appreciated references.
• To strike a balance of less filling and looks great, what is the minimum radius I need for accomodating those Super Chiefs?

I'm really on a tight fixed income budget, so I can't afford a lot of failed trial and errors...it's a researching I go!  Thanks ahead for all those who can lend me their insight.

[Marc_Magnus]

Hi from Belgium,

I begun to use N scale in the late sixties it was european equipment made by Arnold.

I was looking for operations in my begining and just after seeing them in a expo I switched to American models just because of the Kadee couplers.

Then interest make me a american raifan.

I am largely inspired by the late John Allen and Georges Sellios.

So my layout had a lot of remenber of these two layouts

Well I am working on my N scale Maclau river since 20 years and a move to a new home open me the possibilities to extend the layout.

I used in the beginning Peco code 83 then when its appeared code 55 and have retrack all the railroad in code 55 ......it was a big job, and difficult because scenery was in place.

The turnout are throw by tortoise motor and in majority by hankscraft display motors.

The roster was an heavy batch of old rivarossi steam locos. Cars are most Micro trains and a few Arlas. The standard coupler is Micro train.

I replaced  most of the old roster it by the well new running steam loco we see since a few years. Some models of early diesel are also on the layout.

DCC appeared on the layout in 2000 with a lenz system.

Now scenery had made big advance.

I am looking for better close to the scale track and think seriousely to use the Fastrack template in code 55 to make the turnouts in the future.

Sorry I dont'have any digital photo of my layout but hope to have some in the next coming weeks

If you want to know more about the theme of the layout see my profile.

Anyway Nscale is a very interesting scale.

[Mailman56701]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

 

[Dave Vollmer]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

Mirco-Trains are the defacto standard in N...  Micro-Trains Line (often abbreviated as MT or MTL) was once part of Kadee, so they're essentially just N scale Kadees.

[Mailman56701]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

Mirco-Trains are the defacto standard in N...  Micro-Trains Line (often abbreviated as MT or MTL) was once part of Kadee, so they're essentially just N scale Kadees.

 

  Thanks Dave.

[R. T. POTEET]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

 

Old habits die hard!!!

I might be able to stagger through Micro-Trains Line but they are, have been, and always will be Kadee couplers, I don't care what scale and/or gauge you are talking about.

[Mailman56701]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

 

Old habits die hard!!!

I might be able to stagger through Micro-Trains Line but they are, have been, and always will be Kadee couplers, I don't care what scale and/or gauge you are talking about.

 

  Boy, just doing a quick look, seems confusing as to what fits what, and also seems much more involved installation-wise than coverting my HO stuff was :(

 

[tgindy]

This is probably the most comprehensive website about our N Scale heritage that I've seen to date, plus it is extensively documented with pictures.

Bill's Railroad Empire -- N Scale History... 

http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale.html 

This is "Must-see N Scale!"  Too bad it doesn't rhyme with, "Must-see TV!"

[R. T. POTEET]

  Coupler conversion question for the crowd; if I'm not mistaken, Kadee doesn't make n scale couplers, so what brand do you recommend to replace Rapidos ?

 

Old habits die hard!!!

I might be able to stagger through Micro-Trains Line but they are, have been, and always will be Kadee couplers, I don't care what scale and/or gauge you are talking about.

 

  Boy, just doing a quick look, seems confusing as to what fits what, and also seems much more involved installation-wise than coverting my HO stuff was :(

 

Can't believe that this thread went over three days without an entry!!!

Yes, Mailman, things are just a little bit confusing sometimes; over the years I have picked up MTL's monthly newsletter because they used to have info on just which couplers fit which new units - I haven't made any purchases in awhile but I've got these newsletters to fall back on.

I now have a further complication - I experimented with a Z-Scale body mount a few years back and then forgot about it; the recent MR article - I believe it was MR - on using Z-Scale body mounted couplers has wetted my interest in this matter.  As I have stated in other postings I had to demolish my old layout - had to make room for my new snuggle and couldn't fit it into my available space - and, due to circumstances, won't be able to start a new one for a couple of years.  Am going to superdetail and paint (house road) on my lokes.  Was going to body mount couplers to all my rolling stock but am going to do a couple of Z-Scale loke conversions - or try anyway - to see if I can get it to work.  If so, that may be my program for the next couple of years.

[Bikerdad]

• My plan is to model 50s or so Santa Fe...the Kato Super Chiefs are what got me interested in N.  Anyway, I have no clue as to what would be an appropriate local switcher for that period SF.   Of course I'm looking for the equivalent of the holy grail...inexpensive and good quality, and being DCC ready/friendly.  Anyone have any thoughts?

50s or so?  Kato is coming out with an NW-2 Switcher, first roadnames released will be.... Santa Fe.  Due in shops in a couple of weeks.

• The second topic of puzzlement is more basic.  Are the terms "DCC ready" and "DCC friendly" interchangeable?  If not, what is the difference?

  "DCC ready" generally refers to locomotives, and it means that the motor has been isolated and there (usually) is space for a decoder.  DCC friendly probably refers to turnouts, I haven't really heard the term used in N scale.

• To strike a balance of less filling and looks great, what is the minimum radius I need for accomodating those Super Chiefs?

  9 3/4" minimum, just don't put E8s or PAs on the front.  12"+ will give you better looks, and allow you to run with E8s and/or PAs.

[Zandoz]

• My plan is to model 50s or so Santa Fe...the Kato Super Chiefs are what got me interested in N.  Anyway, I have no clue as to what would be an appropriate local switcher for that period SF.   Of course I'm looking for the equivalent of the holy grail...inexpensive and good quality, and being DCC ready/friendly.  Anyone have any thoughts?

50s or so?  Kato is coming out with an NW-2 Switcher, first roadnames released will be.... Santa Fe.  Due in shops in a couple of weeks.

• The second topic of puzzlement is more basic.  Are the terms "DCC ready" and "DCC friendly" interchangeable?  If not, what is the difference?

  "DCC ready" generally refers to locomotives, and it means that the motor has been isolated and there (usually) is space for a decoder.  DCC friendly probably refers to turnouts, I haven't really heard the term used in N scale.

• To strike a balance of less filling and looks great, what is the minimum radius I need for accomodating those Super Chiefs?

  9 3/4" minimum, just don't put E8s or PAs on the front.  12"+ will give you better looks, and allow you to run with E8s and/or PAs.

 

Thanks!  I just stumbled across the NW@ announcement a little while ago.  One more entry for the ole "Wish List".

[Zandoz]

Another Super Chief related question...Can anyone out there give me the approximate length of the Kato Super Chief cars? Or the length of the real-life-scale prototypes so I can do the 1/160th math? I'm trying to come up with an idea of how much layout real estate I need to allocate for a small town passenger station and it's associated platform.

[R. T. POTEET]

Another Super Chief related question...Can anyone out there give me the approximate length of the Kato Super Chief cars? Or the length of the real-life-scale prototypes so I can do the 1/160th math? I'm trying to come up with an idea of how much layout real estate I need to allocate for a small town passenger station and it's associated platform.

By the 1950s - the era in question - the Super trainsets were all "streamliners" i.e. equipped with flute sided stainless steel cars.  These were a "standard" eighty-five feet in length.  Some railroads of the era - and I am sure this applies to Uncle John - ordered head-end cars in shorter lengths - usually seventy two feet - but whether Uncle John ever put any of these in the Super trainsets I don't recall.

Some body - TLC????? - has a book out on the Chiefs and El Capitans - I have one but it is currently buried in a box as I try to do some reorganization around here.  The book is not expensive and it has some very valuable material on this subject.

As a sidebar to another enquiry made on this same subject, N-Scale 85 footers scale out to 6 3/8 inches long.  The NMRA recommended practice is three times the length of the longest unit (which is usually an 85 foot passenger car) which means that for operating reliability and appearance these cars should be run on a minimum radius of 19 1/8 inches - not really too big if you think about it - and they look very nice doing it. 

[Zandoz]

Another Super Chief related question...Can anyone out there give me the approximate length of the Kato Super Chief cars? Or the length of the real-life-scale prototypes so I can do the 1/160th math? I'm trying to come up with an idea of how much layout real estate I need to allocate for a small town passenger station and it's associated platform.

By the 1950s - the era in question - the Super trainsets were all "streamliners" i.e. equipped with flute sided stainless steel cars.  These were a "standard" eighty-five feet in length.  Some railroads of the era - and I am sure this applies to Uncle John - ordered head-end cars in shorter lengths - usually seventy two feet - but whether Uncle John ever put any of these in the Super trainsets I don't recall.

Some body - TLC????? - has a book out on the Chiefs and El Capitans - I have one but it is currently buried in a box as I try to do some reorganization around here.  The book is not expensive and it has some very valuable material on this subject.

As a sidebar to another enquiry made on this same subject, N-Scale 85 footers scale out to 6 3/8 inches long.  The NMRA recommended practice is three times the length of the longest unit (which is usually an 85 foot passenger car) which means that for operating reliability and appearance these cars should be run on a minimum radius of 19 1/8 inches - not really too big if you think about it - and they look very nice doing it. 

Thanks for the length confirmation.  I was originally under the impression that they were 85'ers, but then I saw an ebay aucton for another older line of Super Chief cars that mentioned that they were 70 scale foot cars...that had me thinking I was over allocating precious real estate...but no such luck, I guess.

[tgindy]

Can't believe that this thread went over three days without an entry!!!

My last post on January 19th, an N Scale History link, lasted 78 hours before you posted.

 

[underworld]

Seems like all of the kids are trying to be with the N crowd!!!!!

underworld

[R. T. POTEET]

Another Super Chief related question...Can anyone out there give me the approximate length of the Kato Super Chief cars? Or the length of the real-life-scale prototypes so I can do the 1/160th math? I'm trying to come up with an idea of how much layout real estate I need to allocate for a small town passenger station and it's associated platform.

By the 1950s - the era in question - the Super trainsets were all "streamliners" i.e. equipped with flute sided stainless steel cars.  These were a "standard" eighty-five feet in length.  Some railroads of the era - and I am sure this applies to Uncle John - ordered head-end cars in shorter lengths - usually seventy two feet - but whether Uncle John ever put any of these in the Super trainsets I don't recall.

Some body - TLC????? - has a book out on the Chiefs and El Capitans - I have one but it is currently buried in a box as I try to do some reorganization around here.  The book is not expensive and it has some very valuable material on this subject.

As a sidebar to another enquiry made on this same subject, N-Scale 85 footers scale out to 6 3/8 inches long.  The NMRA recommended practice is three times the length of the longest unit (which is usually an 85 foot passenger car) which means that for operating reliability and appearance these cars should be run on a minimum radius of 19 1/8 inches - not really too big if you think about it - and they look very nice doing it. 

Thanks for the length confirmation.  I was originally under the impression that they were 85'ers, but then I saw an ebay aucton for another older line of Super Chief cars that mentioned that they were 70 scale foot cars...that had me thinking I was over allocating precious real estate...but no such luck, I guess.

Correct me if I am wrong but the 70 footers were most likely Athearns (HO).  I don't know if ole Uncle Irv cut them to that length himself or if he inherited the dies from Globe(?) models in the 50s; whatever the case they were designed to facilitate operation on 18 and 22 inch radius curves - these cars were already antiques when I got in the hobby in the early 60s.

Model Power and Rapido both marketed some "shorty" flute sided passenger cars at one time in N-Scale but I DON'T REMEMBER any of these being offered in Santa Fe.  MRC marketed the ROCO line of full length cars in the late sixties and these were offered in Santa Fe - they were a C&O design if memory serves me correctly - but I don't remember MRC ever making any representation of the Super in their advertisements.  Somehow or another Jim Conway got possession of these dies and had Rivarossi produce them until 1975 or 76 when (according to him) the dies wore out and production ceased.

[Fortkentdad]

WoW! This is quite the thread, page 36 and going.  I think you hit a Nerve.

I model mostly in N but volunteer at a local museum working on a vintage Lionel display, I've got some G waiting to go into the garden some day and even an On3 for under the tree.   Only scale I don't use is HO and even then I have a old Marklin three rail HO set in the closet somewhere. 

I spend most of my on-line MRR time chatting at SRO (scalerailsonline) http://www.scalerailsonline.com/  and sometime over at The Gauge forums. 

You asked for some pics of N scale MRR so here is one for you.

and a longer view of the layout:

I've got lots more pics up at http://fortkentdad.fotopic.net/  and my own MRR website (URL in my signature line).

Come on Nthusiasts lets keep the thread going.

 

[Nick68]

I am just starting out building a model railroad and am looking for nice DCC steam engines. I looked at web sites for a number of manufacturers but so far the choices have been sparse. A message from Dave Vollmer around 11-22-2006 in this thread showed a nice picture of his steam engines. Where did you get yours?

I am mostly interested in CB&Q markings. Does any one have suggestions where I can get DCC models either used or new. Maybe even some forums members have something for sale.

 

[Dave Vollmer]

I am just starting out building a model railroad and am looking for nice DCC steam engines. I looked at web sites for a number of manufacturers but so far the choices have been sparse. A message from Dave Vollmer around 11-22-2006 in this thread showed a nice picture of his steam engines. Where did you get yours?

I am mostly interested in CB&Q markings. Does any one have suggestions where I can get DCC models either used or new. Maybe even some forums members have something for sale.

My steamers are kitbashes...  1 PRR L1s 2-8-2 kitbashed from a Kato Mike and GHQ conversion kit and 1 PRR H10sb 2-8-0 kitbashed from a lot of engines, including a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0.  I also have a brass K4s with a burned-out motor.

Here are my two operating Pennsy steam engines with their PRR Belpaire fireboxes:

[Anonymous]

I have just gone big time on passenger operation but the problem is that my layout when designed wee for freight and as you can see, I have a bitof a problem.  I got Set A and Set C of the Kato Super Chief and running A-B consist but I also have a UP E7 A-B consist with 6 cars.  My layout is only 4'X3' with a 1.5' yard and eerytime I need to park the trains in my Union Station, they will need to be split up into 2 smaller trains.  So I think if you want to realistically operate passenger trains, you will need at least double the space of my layout and use a minimum of 19" curves.  You should use the 'square' method to plan your layout where each square should be your manimum rutning radius so you know how big the space you need.  You should also read either the October or November issue of MR where is gives a very good description on realistic model passenger operations.  I am stuck with my but I still love my passenger trains especially now I am planning to get the new Phase IV Amtrack P42 and the matching trains.  If yo only have small space like me, don't let that deter you because if you use the Kato Unitrack, you can still have a 2 line main with the station going diagonally across or if you want even longer station platforms, go all the way across plus a dog-leg at one corner.  It's too late for me because I have done too much work on it to start all over again but that's what I will do next time.

Another Super Chief related question...Can anyone out there give me the approximate length of the Kato Super Chief cars? Or the length of the real-life-scale prototypes so I can do the 1/160th math? I'm trying to come up with an idea of how much layout real estate I need to allocate for a small town passenger station and it's associated platform.

[Dave Vollmer]

More MR anti-N bias...

Once again, the March MR gives us 2 HO and 2 O scale full product reviews.  There was a "quick look" at the N scale Galloping Goose...

Come on!  Is MR telling us that O scale is just as popular as HO, and more popular than N?  That's not what the polls typically say.  With all the new N scale stuff coming out, they couldn't find anything to review?  They could do a full review on an Atlas product each month for cryin' out loud!  The N scale market's never been more exciting!!!

Seems like the last good N scale feature was David Popp's layout.  If MR keeps up its recent trend with avoiding N scale, it will loose me as a subscriber.

[Dave Vollmer]

More N scale fun...

Was disturbed to hear a grinding noise coming from my Kato E8.  It was intermittant, so I couldn't tell what was up.  Then suddenly the front power truck jammed.  Couldn't figure out why.

Turns out a tiny little "fuzzy" of unknown origin (I'm looking at the dog) worked its way into the front power truck (how?  It has a gear cover...).  Of course, the little fuzzy got wrapped around one of the gears, but in such a way that I had to disassemble the whole front truck.

After getting it all back together, things work great!  But it's funny to think of scale.  A whole dog probably could't jam up a real E8, but a tiny fuzzy the size of pencil tip brought my N scale PRR Blue Ribbon Fleet to a standstill!

[Anonymous]

It's funny you mentioned that because I had an identical thing happened to me when I first got my Precision Craft E7 in UP.  It's just a very small manufacturing fault where the truck cover cannot be held completely by the truck's clips...I mean those things are tiny and the truck/gear cover just sitting very slightly out and it's enough to cause my E7 to clip on turnouts everytime and the thing would just come to a grinding stop.  Lucky the Precision Craft's warranty service was top notch and replaced it in no time.

More N scale fun...

Was disturbed to hear a grinding noise coming from my Kato E8.  It was intermittant, so I couldn't tell what was up.  Then suddenly the front power truck jammed.  Couldn't figure out why.

Turns out a tiny little "fuzzy" of unknown origin (I'm looking at the dog) worked its way into the front power truck (how?  It has a gear cover...).  Of course, the little fuzzy got wrapped around one of the gears, but in such a way that I had to disassemble the whole front truck.

After getting it all back together, things work great!  But it's funny to think of scale.  A whole dog probably could't jam up a real E8, but a tiny fuzzy the size of pencil tip brought my N scale PRR Blue Ribbon Fleet to a standstill!

[trainfreek92]

Did the dog climb up on the layout Dave?

[Dave Vollmer]

Did the dog climb up on the layout Dave?

If he did there would have been such death and destruction in the town of Lewisport, PA that the N scale Pennsylvania National Guard would have been called out!

Truth is, the fuzzy probably floated up after the dog scratched himself...  He's part Border Collie so he has lots of fur!

[NS2591]

Both my Atlas GP40-2 and my Atlas SD9 have been sent to the shop(My friend John) for a complete overhaul on the trucks. I really should vacum my layout before I ran them. I belive they may have sucked up some sawdust...The Sad part is that leaves me with one engine I can run on my layout right now. my Atlas B40-8...all of my Katos that fit my era that I have are 6 axel and don't have the long shanked couplers on them so when they go around the curves(15") they derail the first car. My Intermountain Tunnel motors hit the bottom of the frog on my turnouts. Code 55 shouldn't they go through no problem? and my Kato F3 doesn't fit at all. My Amtrak train derails, More than I would like but when it stays on its fine. The only other thing I have that is usable has the same problem my Katos do, its an Athearn SD70M and it derails the first car becuase it needs long couplers. I think I might replace all my curves with Sectional curves. Becuase I can run my coal train with my Kato SD70M and my Kato AC4400CW on the 9 3/4 no problem. but for some reason they derail on my layout. Any thoughts anyone?

[nscaler711]

Hey dave im with you onthe whole MR needs more nscale thing i dont mind reading about O scale but when it comes to HO it makes me jealous that there is no n scale this month.

BTW im getting a SD70M from Kato and i want to Know how it runs it should run fine,,,also im getting an DD40AX its probably somewhat rare. it is n scale

[trainfreek92]

Ok Dave now I get it!

 

Is it me or does the The Big E show have very little N scale stuff?