I picked up an ABBA set of FT's (Santa Fe Cigar Bands) from a dealer on ebay a while back. I love them. They are quiet, smooth and have a decent amount of pull. My only complaint about them was that the A units had a white LED for a headlight that cast the usual blue tint. Since I was converting them all to DCC I replaced the stock LEDs with some that I cut off Digitrax decoders that wound up going into B-units.
Getting the shells off the A-units is a bit touchy. I wedged flat toothpicks under the sides, near the corners to slide the shell up.
I agree, Trainfreek, I think they are a notch better than Atlas and equal to or slightly better than Kato. I say that being perfectly content with the Atlases and Katos on my roster.
- Mark
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
claymore1977 wrote: I really don't want to start anything and I normally don't use the word 'wrong', but R.T. what you said in this last post is highly incorrect and could easily break things.First off, Mailman said he had a 19V AC power pack rated at 5.5VA. 5.5VA @ 19Vac wields about 290mA! That is 0.29A and is barely enough to run a Loco on HO. Plus its AC whereas HO & N locos run on conventional DC (Providing its not DCC we are talking about.) To get that powerpack to work Mailman, you will need to run the output of that power pack through a FullWave Bridge Rectifier. Even then though, you will have about 11.7Vdc with a maximum amp capacity of 290mA. Unless you read the specs on it incorrectly, that power supply just isnt gonna cut it.Second off, N scale locos draw less power which means that their motor's resistance is higher, not lower. (plus don't get confused between resistance and impedance, they aren't the same thing!) You are correct in saying that 12V is 12V if you are talking about taking a 12VDC power pack and using it on both HO and N. No issues there. Just make sure it is actually a 12VDC powerpack!Lastly, adding resistance(and/or impedance) in parallel will not increase the circuits overall resistance, but will, in fact, lower it and draw more current! Which translates into a very hot resistor. If you need to limit current to a device, then install a resistor in series with just that device.
I really don't want to start anything and I normally don't use the word 'wrong', but R.T. what you said in this last post is highly incorrect and could easily break things.
First off, Mailman said he had a 19V AC power pack rated at 5.5VA. 5.5VA @ 19Vac wields about 290mA! That is 0.29A and is barely enough to run a Loco on HO. Plus its AC whereas HO & N locos run on conventional DC (Providing its not DCC we are talking about.)
To get that powerpack to work Mailman, you will need to run the output of that power pack through a FullWave Bridge Rectifier. Even then though, you will have about 11.7Vdc with a maximum amp capacity of 290mA. Unless you read the specs on it incorrectly, that power supply just isnt gonna cut it.
Second off, N scale locos draw less power which means that their motor's resistance is higher, not lower. (plus don't get confused between resistance and impedance, they aren't the same thing!) You are correct in saying that 12V is 12V if you are talking about taking a 12VDC power pack and using it on both HO and N. No issues there. Just make sure it is actually a 12VDC powerpack!
Lastly, adding resistance(and/or impedance) in parallel will not increase the circuits overall resistance, but will, in fact, lower it and draw more current! Which translates into a very hot resistor. If you need to limit current to a device, then install a resistor in series with just that device.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
trainfreek92 wrote:How many of you guys like Intermountain N scale locos? I got one the other day for my bday. (Maine Central F3A) And it runs very good and quiet. Is this the norm with Intermountain. Honestly it runs better then some of my Atlas n scale locos. What about you guys?
I have 2 FT A/B sets that see considerable time on the track. They are as good looking and quiet as any offering from Kato or Atlas. They operate at extremely slow speeds without cogging and pull as good as any diesel that I own. Their full throttle speed is not excessive like Kato and older Atlas. I have not owned any of their models that had flaws in detail, but it is my understanding that they are very quick to provide replacement shells in these cases at no cost to the customer.
I also have quite a bit of their box cars and reefers. These are also very nice operating units. They compare favorably to any of the other manufacturers for quality and are reasonabley priced.
Bob
I have an Intermountain SP tunnel motor (short nose). It looks and runs beautifully, but it's the noisiest loco I have. Not much of an issue, though, I probably won't need a DCC sound decoder for that one! :)
The smoothest one I have is an Atlas Dash-840B, runs as smooth as butter.
Here's a few pics of the latest progress on my layout:
My test train runs on 16' of mainline at the moment.
My solution for installing a Tortoise under a WS riser!The test train reaches the end of the line at the Styrofoam Canyon.More details (including why I have some HO track in the picture) in my layout blog: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=6865
claymore1977 wrote: I really don't want to start anything and I normally don't use the word 'wrong'
I really don't want to start anything and I normally don't use the word 'wrong'
Hrm, looks like I did. My bad. Guess I will try to keep this as mature as possible.
R. T. POTEET wrote:I was originally going to pass this over by saying "WHATEVER!' and being done with it but when you made the assinine comment about "PLEASE DON'T GET CONFUSED BETWEEN IMPEDENCE AND RESISTANCE. THEY AREN'T THE SAME THING" and that raised the hackles on the back of my neck.
Thats because they aren't. Since you won't believe me, look it up for yourself. It also was not assinine, its fact.
I site wikipedia:
Electrical impedance, or simply impedance, is a measure of opposition to a sinusoidal alternating electric current. The concept of electrical impedance generalizes Ohm's law to AC circuit analysis. Unlike electrical resistance, the impedance of an electric circuit can be a complex number, however, like resistance, the unit of impedance is the ohm. Oliver Heaviside coined the term "impedance" in July of 1886.
Link to Inductance/Reactance Definition
Electrical resistance is a measure of the degree to which an object opposes the passage of an electric current. The SI unit of electrical resistance is the ohm. Its reciprocal quantity is electrical conductance measured in siemens. The quantity of resistance in an electric circuit determines the amount of current flowing in the circuit for any given voltage applied to the circuit.
Electrical resistance is a measure of the degree to which an object opposes the passage of an electric current. The SI unit of electrical resistance is the ohm. Its reciprocal quantity is electrical conductance measured in siemens.
The quantity of resistance in an electric circuit determines the amount of current flowing in the circuit for any given voltage applied to the circuit.
Link for Resistance Definition
R. T. POTEET wrote: Considering the fact that I have forgotten more about electronics than you will ever know I present to you the following conditions.
Considering the fact that I have forgotten more about electronics than you will ever know I present to you the following conditions.
Wow, that took a dip on the childish side. Please, state your reference that supports this statement! I am deadly serious.
R. T. POTEET wrote:Mailman said that he has an HO POWER PACK - PACK!!! PACK!!!Powerpacks have a set of AC terminals and a set of DC terminals, the DC terminals which are always (if NMRA compliant) 12 VDC. The AC terminals can be almost any AC voltage and MUST be labeled on the outside, not only with the voltage but with the amperage draw. Mailman has a POWERPACK with a set of 19VAC terminals rated at 5.5VA.
Mailman said that he has an HO POWER PACK - PACK!!! PACK!!!Powerpacks have a set of AC terminals and a set of DC terminals, the DC terminals which are always (if NMRA compliant) 12 VDC. The AC terminals can be almost any AC voltage and MUST be labeled on the outside, not only with the voltage but with the amperage draw. Mailman has a POWERPACK with a set of 19VAC terminals rated at 5.5VA.
Yes, and as previously stated, 5.5VoltAmps (Apperant Power) is only good for about 300mA ish at 19Vac assuming a powerfactor of 0.8 (American standard)
R. T. POTEET wrote:All a motor is is a coil and coils have impedance instead of resistance and in order to increase the (theoretical) resistance of an impedance device i.e. motor you must increase the (theoretical) resistance of the circuit and, because it has a motor/coil in it you must place a resistor in PARALLEL across the motor!!!!!!!
All a motor is is a coil and coils have impedance instead of resistance and in order to increase the (theoretical) resistance of an impedance device i.e. motor you must increase the (theoretical) resistance of the circuit and, because it has a motor/coil in it you must place a resistor in PARALLEL across the motor!!!!!!!
I have been wrong before, but this goes against a decade of Navy training and experience. If you are correct I would LOVE to see the reference. I just cold resistance checked my locos motor, then added a resistor of equivilent value in parallel and remeasured the resistance. My experiment followed parallel resistance laws perfectly as circuit resistance dropped by half, which would translate to double the current flow... exaclt opposite of what you said. Since they are seperate branches of the circuit, other than the voltage drop due to increase load at the terminals, the resistor in parallel doesnt affect the motor windings in any way with DC power.
I say resistance because DC will be applied to the motor, not AC. If it was AC then I would say that the motor is exhibiting Reactance, not just Impedance as Impedance is one of three components of Reactance (the others are Capacitive and Inductive). Link
But I also understand that since the motor is not spinning, true Reactance of the motor cannot be measure as the frequency component of the Inductive Reactance is currently zero and therefore overall Reactance is not accurate as I am merely measuring the Resistive component only.
R. T. POTEET wrote:An N-Scale motor does not have enough resistance/impedence to dissipate the wattage (that is what makes a motor go, by the way); try hooking an N-Scale circuit up to an HO pack sometime; any loke on the track will go from zero to 293MPH in about .0006289100456 seconds.
An N-Scale motor does not have enough resistance/impedence to dissipate the wattage (that is what makes a motor go, by the way); try hooking an N-Scale circuit up to an HO pack sometime; any loke on the track will go from zero to 293MPH in about .0006289100456 seconds.
Um, I have been wrong many times in the past and freely admit when I am, but this statement just isn't true. I did just what you suggested and ran HO and N equipment on the same Tech II and it did just what I thought it would... ran just fine. Read over the documentation at MRC's website if you don't believe me.
Dave Loman
My site: The Rusty Spike
"It's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.... hey, someone's making a penny!"
OK guys, deep breath... There's a lot of great info in this thread; we don't want it locked out because it got ugly!
You guys are actually both military vets but of different services and therefore probably slightly different training.
Anyway, I may need one of you two electronic experts if I fry yet another LED board here! My soldering skills are, in a word, "boorish."
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Trust me, I am trying very hard to keep it civil. I just can't stand by when advice is given that I think its incorrect/possible harmful to equipment. As an outside party, was there anything in my original post that was offensive/unprofessional? If so, I will edit it and take it onboard as a lesson learned for future reference.
Oh btw, I decided to go with a small N scale layout till I get a house/basement. Track plan to follow shortly for critique.
claymore1977 wrote:Trust me, I am trying very hard to keep it civil. I just can't stand by when advice is given that I think its incorrect/possible harmful to equipment. As an outside party, was there anything in my original post that was offensive/unprofessional? If so, I will edit it and take it onboard as a lesson learned for future reference. Oh btw, I decided to go with a small N scale layout till I get a house/basement. Track plan to follow shortly for critique.
I have found when you give advice and it's not what the other party wants to hear no matter how right you are they will 9 times out of 10 find it offensive even when it wasn't.
WOW, tough room today!
Think I'll just hang over here in the corner and mind my own business!
RR Redneck wrote:That is a cool paint job you got goin on with your equipment.
If that was aimed at me, thanks Eric. I don't intend to get so "elegant" with the freight scheme.
Yes it was pardner. What does your frieght scheme look like?
wow!! I never thought I would read this today geting buried with snow at work!! Probably more then I ever could assimaliate about electronics in on sitting.
Depending on weather I should have a track plan finnalized by tomorrow morning!! Wish me luck!
Curt
Here is the End Result Twin Cities Southern MP15DC 1500
I copied the image from http://trainiax.net/mescaleloco.htm and pasted it in Paint. I filled on the colors using some of the Color codes that he has on his website, If you go to the contributed drawings and find the ones by Jay Tester those are mine. What do ya guys think?
NS2591 wrote: Here is the End Result Twin Cities Southern MP15DC 1500I copied the image from http://trainiax.net/mescaleloco.htm and pasted it in Paint. I filled on the colors using some of the Color codes that he has on his website, If you go to the contributed drawings and find the ones by Jay Tester those are mine. What do ya guys think?
Looks great. Very classy.
Rob
"try hooking an N-Scale circuit up to an HO pack sometime; any loke on the track will go from zero to 293MPH in about .0006289100456 seconds."
I'm a little reluctant to get caught up in this cat fight, but that statement is just silly. I have an MRC Tech II that is an "HO" pack and I ran my N scale trains for years with it before I converted to DCC. The N scale display layout (DC powered) I use for shows has also been running on it for the last 4 years. BTW, I sell electronic products.
Why in the world do you think an N scale loco would suddenly leap forward at full speed if it was hooked to an "HO" pack? Perhaps if you cranked the throttle up all the way, there might be some potential problems, (like flying off the rail in a corner ) but normal operation will be no problem whatsoever.
Mike Tennent
Thanks Mike and I do apologize to all readers for this 'cat fight.' I am glad to see that I am not the only one with opinions to the contrary.
New subject. Since I am still 'new' to N scale what would the experts recommend for good quality modern day rolling stock?
claymore1977 wrote:Thanks Mike and I do apologize to all readers for this 'cat fight.' I am glad to see that I am not the only one with opinions to the contrary. New subject. Since I am still 'new' to N scale what would the experts recommend for good quality modern day rolling stock?
claymore1977 wrote: Thanks Mike and I do apologize to all readers for this 'cat fight.' I am glad to see that I am not the only one with opinions to the contrary. New subject. Since I am still 'new' to N scale what would the experts recommend for good quality modern day rolling stock?
Atlas has some very nice modern stuff. I don't much care for their couplers, though (they don't last long) so I'm replacing them with Micro-Trains couplers.
i do something simalar NS2591 insted of drawing on a computer i use a sketch book ill start drawing in class then ill try to remember what the loco looks like then ill start drawing people have said i have a talent for super detailing my sketched locos ill try to post pics as soon as i get a digital camera
Army National Guard E3MOS 91BI have multiple scales nowZ, N, HO, O, and G.
i have a problem, my problem is What is the AT&SF's font(lettering)? i cant find it in microsoft word, microsoft spread sheet, or any thing else could someone tell me
Dave Vollmer wrote: claymore1977 wrote: Thanks Mike and I do apologize to all readers for this 'cat fight.' I am glad to see that I am not the only one with opinions to the contrary. New subject. Since I am still 'new' to N scale what would the experts recommend for good quality modern day rolling stock? Atlas has some very nice modern stuff. I don't much care for their couplers, though (they don't last long) so I'm replacing them with Micro-Trains couplers.
micro-trains makes the best, but expensive rolling stock. I like Con-Cor's autoracks, walthers usually has them and they're common at train shows. I'd agree that atlas and kato are very good. May I also recommend DeLuxe innovations' cars; they make a lot of modern cars like wood chip cars, spines, and stack cars. Life-like is serviceable, and i know nothing of roundhouse, but haven't seen anything from them in a while.
Hope I could help!
NSnscaler
Nscaler711 Hows this?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=159511