Do freight cars have to be plastic?

[dknelson]

OK my final gripe of the evening.
Manufacturers should use more metal for freight cars. As prototype (and model) freight cars get longer, and as the modern emphasis on staging yards in layout design means our freight trains are getting longer, proper weighting of
rolling stock becomes ever more critical. Model flats, gons, and
hoppers tend to be underweight for obvious reasons, but the switch from
metal to plastic that started years ago, while improving detail and
realism, worsens the weight situation for all model rolling stock.

Indeed, cutting-edge trends in the hobby actively discourage weighting
flat cars and gons to NMRA standards, as many weighing tricks and kinks
developed over the years are no longer quite so workable. Back when
underframes were mere approximations of the prototype, gluing "hidden"
chunks of zinc or lead to the bottom of a car, wrapping lead solder around
axles to improve the center of gravity, or replacing steel weights with
sheet lead, were all reasonable options. We are more attuned now to
the health risks of working with lead, and besides, these methods
deface today's wonderfully detailed underframes. I know the joke--lay
your track correctly and nobody should see the underframes--but once
you've gone cross-eyed trimming and installing all that detail you'll
be darned if you can't show it off. Adding loads is another old idea
that still works, but if that means delivering gravel to the gravel pit
or tractors to the tractor factory then it comes at the cost of
realistic operation. Putting underweight cars at the rear of a train
is not always practical and besides, with DCC there might well be a
hard-working pusher on that rear end.

Some N and HO intermodal spine cars, many showing fine detail, are all
metal, and, true, are more expensive than plastic. To my way of
thinking, metal is a material that should be more broadly explored in
quality freight car design.
Dave Nelson

[Wdlgln005]

With all the new laser-cut parts, I'd like to see more wood used. Especially for composite or wood sheathed boxcars. It would be cool to build a car as close as possible to the real ones with a mix of materials. The frame should be all metal to help with weight & balance. Trucks and couplers should be held in place by a screw.

[Puckdropper]

It has been my experience that overweighted cars are better runners than underweighted cars. Metal comes at a cost, but today's US economic system is all about units produced.

[Anonymous]

Interesting topic. There's a strong tradition of freight and passenger car kits in brass, whitemetal, and now resin, here in the UK. Brass is popular on the high-end craftsman kits - these basically come as a set of flat brass etches, usually with some whitemetal and/or resin castings for detailing.

I agree with the comment about intermodal cars - I'd like to see more double stack container cars with metal bodywork - the Walthers ones have this but I only have one of them, a five-unit set with diecast bodywork would be very good, I've spent many evenings trimming bits of lead sheet to ballast the Athearn example I have, and I can't run it empty. I was puzzled by the reference to Spine cars though - I have two of the Walthers 5-unit spine car sets, these have diecast "spines" and run very well.

[Anonymous]

They have to be plastic because that's the only way to make them cheap enough to sell. If everyone did make them from metal they would cost est. $25 dollars each. Then there would be posts about companies pricing themselves out of business, sales would drop, and a Chineese company would cast plastic ones and the metal ones would set on the shelf collecting dust, kind of like the overpriced RAMS Superbowl Champ boxcars at the hobby shop do now. There are safe alternatives to lead for weights, mallory metal is one. It's more dense than lead, is made from tungsten and is safe by todays standards, and is expensive as h e double toothpick. That's why no one but racing engine builders use it? As to the spine cars, put steel shot in the frame for weight. Steel shot is from an ammo shop for duck hunting loads and is safe. Metal wheels make them roll better and add weight too, but alas they cost more too. I guess I'm just saying to build them heavy takes more money and nobody wants higher priced items. FRED

[Anonymous]

Very good thread!!

Let's see. Metal is not conductive to detail. (Yes I understand the releases of Lionel's Challenger may be exception, but at 700 dollars a unit it better be) Plastic is easy to work with and simple to use in kit building (Athearn etc) It is also cuttable, paintable, cheap, ($$ bottom line rules corperate profits and spouse's tolerance is also a limit)

One must take into account weighting. I believe there is a variety of materials that will "Safely" weight down a car I have noticed the UP runs long and empty cars at the end of the train regardless of where it is going. That is usally going from say Little Rock to St. Louis and it can always be switched properly later.

I would put steel shot in the bottom and use a candle and drip wax down in there to bind the shot. Gondolas and flats get loads to weigh em down. If I run em empty I just put em towards the caboose and switch em when needed. (Yer gonna be switching anyhow what is a few extra moves?)

The mention of Lead kind of reminded me that there is alot of dangerous materials if activated properly can destroy property and hurt people. In my early days we have used chemicals so powerful you had to get out of the basement and vent it periodically. Or a spark from the oil furnace will detonate the place.

Regarding Pushers under DCC. I can say OMG. Yer right on target. Them pushers will be snorting and shoving against that train (No wooden cabooses allowed except at rear of train) I recently tried a 4-8-2 mountain with a 2-8-2 mikado and boy they will haul all my cars with alot of shoving and slacking. Looks like I need to over grade to calm em down.

Regarding wood parts, I will imagine them to be subject to humidity and moisture effects. If you do not seal them properly they probably will develop sways, sags and (Gasp) mold I have a termite problem at the house and I will use syrene or plastic before I use wood. (Never mind the contradition about layout construction steel is too expensive)

Maybe I have taken a strong stand on this thread. I only wi***o encourage a healthy discussion of this wonderful thread. In closing, the Chinese people probably will ultimately win all factory contracts in the woeld. No one can build a widget for 8 cents an hour. We Americans demand a $1.10 plus benefits to build the widget. I recon an economics thread may be in order.

Good Luck

Lee

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

They have to be plastic because that's the only way to make them cheap enough to sell. If everyone did make them from metal they would cost est. $25 dollars each. FRED

Hey Fred,

$25 bucks nowadays IS cheap. Have you priced plastic RTR lately?

[FJ and G]

Dave N.

I agree with you (despite some of the good points made by others to the contrary).

Here's some other arguments for metal (or wood as Glenn states).

Metal has the look and feel of real railroading. Plastic is, well cheap and cheesy.

If sunlight is entering your train room or you are using black lites or flourescents, your plastic will deteriorate and the colors will fade.

(I know I'll catch some flak for this reply, but what the heck)

[Javern]

perhaps manufacturors could make them out of aluminum and offer a discount lets say if a modelor sent in 25 beer cans and $10 than you could get a car of your choice

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

They have to be plastic because that's the only way to make them cheap enough to sell. If everyone did make them from metal they would cost est. $25 dollars each. FRED

Hey Fred,

$25 bucks nowadays IS cheap. Have you priced plastic RTR lately?

I seen some RTR plastic in a white box that cost $3.50 too. I buy $8 Athearn semi-kits. When I win powerball I'll buy $25 RTR. FRED

[Anonymous]

Aluminum is lightwight, wouldn't work so good. Shouldn't violate Rule G anyways...

[IRONROOSTER]

I always keep an eye out at the train shows for the old wood and metal kits, but I have to admit the detail is not as good as the new plastic ones. But as others have noted, the cost to produce means plastic will continue to be the mainstay of the future. For closed cars I have found pennies to be a cheap weight. In S scale some rtr manufacturers put a steel rod down the center of the under body. Not prototypical, but effective. Used to be some manufacturers of metal cars in HO - Ulrich comes to mind. Keep an eye out at the train shows.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Personnally I think they should be made of PLASTER, that way when one or two hit floor, as they will, you just sweep them up and pour a few more.BTW,,,IRONROOSTER, now that's something I wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley at night. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]Just kidden there Ironrooster, I've seen that handle so many times now and wondered, where in the world did he get that name from. [:D][:D]

[Puckdropper]

They would be weighted pretty heavily, wouldn't they? ;0)

[Anonymous]

No problem

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

BTW,,,IRONROOSTER, now that's something I wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley at night. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]Just kidden there Ironrooster, I've seen that handle so many times now and wondered, where in the world did he get that name from. [:D][:D]

The name comes from a book title called "Riding the Iron Rooster" by Paul Theroux . It's about his experiences riding steam engine trains in China. I haven't read the book, but liked the title.[:D][:D][:D]
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Here's an idea that might help. Replace the plastic or resin brake rigging with brass.Cal scale sells brake rigging sets for about $10.00. It looks better AND is heavier.