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WHO MAKES THE BEST FP9 (IYHO)

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WHO MAKES THE BEST FP9 (IYHO)
Posted by grayfox1119 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:54 AM
I am planning to model the B&M in New England, and part of it is the Mountain Division through the White Mountains of NH where some former CN FP9's are used still today on the Conway Scenic RR.

So, the questions is.......from all those Diesel experts out there in MRR land, who have years of experience....who makes the best quality, best running , FP9?
Or, should I buy an F7, and then purchase the add-ons to mount on the F7 to make it look like an FP9?
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:31 AM

You only have four choices:
1) Bachmann - A "trainset" model, with pancake motor and all the other troubles of it's ilk.

2) Brass - Do you really want to spend $500+ for an regular F-unit?

3) Athearn Genesis/Highliner - The best shell out there, with a good if not great drive.  And can be had for reasonable money.  If you get the Highliner shell (which is the undec. version of the Athearn Genesis model), you get all the parts to make an F9 (or any other F-unit from the F2 to the F9 for that matter).  If you buy an Athearn F9, you have to get a painted version, and you'd have to strip it.  But I think you can get the drive from them as a seperate part.  Or you can get the Stewart/Bowser drive (probably the best of both worlds...Highliner shell on Stewart drive).

EDIT:
4) Stewart - A great drive, never heard of a problem with it.  The shell, however, while very good, is still not as good as the Highliner tooling.  It certainly doesn't have the see through grills and the add on detail parts of the Highliner.

David, in a word...Huh?  Athearn RTR is an F7, not an F9.  And Intermountain doesn't make F9's.

And how you could not mention the Athearn Genesis/Highliner F9?

Oh, and grayfox1119, I would not try to modify an F7 to an F9 when the Highliner shell is out there.  You'd have to change body panels, roof lines, fan sizes, etc. to get an F9 out of an F7.  It wouldn't be worth it when the Highliner shell does all that for you.

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:07 AM

Paul covered it well.  Much easier to use the Highliner shells.  I've seen them and the detailing is eye catching. 

Tyco made an HO F9 way back when in the 70s.  Also a cheap trainset unit with a single truck, 3 pole motor.  Sure was comical watching those lurching on the tracks, even with the rubber traction tires.

Still plenty of these floating around at flea markets and swap meets  I had one and used it as an airbrush paint tester for years before scrapping it. 

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Posted by emdgp92 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:42 AM
 Paul3 wrote:

You only have four choices:
1) Bachmann - A "trainset" model, with pancake motor and all the other troubles of it's ilk.

Don't bother with this one...unless you're looking for a cheap way to "repower" a Tyco RF16. The frame is an odd plastic, which doesn't respond well to any sort of glue. Trust me, if you accidently break off a coupler pad, it's impossible to fix. The Bachmann shell isn't as good as an Athearn one. BTW, is the Bachmann Spectrum F7 still around? I remember hearing that the numberboards on that one looked a bit odd.
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Posted by grayfox1119 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:04 PM
Thanks for the info guys, I did have to make one correction edit, the Passenger locomotive is an FP 9 not an F9. It is 4 feet longer to accomodate a steam generator used for passenger service. So, to be prototypical, I would need a "shell stretcher" unless I can find an FP9 shell. Anyone know of any place to get an FP9 shell?
So again, what is the best route to take to buy/make an FP9?

Highliner as I now found out is made by Kaslow (?) I can't seem to find their website. Athearn is thinking about producing an FP9 for 2007, nothing definitive yet however.
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Posted by Pathfinder on Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:06 PM
Are you looking for a F9 or FP9  Question [?]

I think the subject line has changed  Question [?]

I use the old Atlas FP7 for my CP units.

Taking a F7 or F9 and trying to change it into a FP9 will be very hard as you will need to splice in an extra 4' to the body and frame.

The last MR had a good discussion on F units (regular and FP's) and what is available to model them.
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Posted by Pathfinder on Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:12 PM
So this is what you might need:

HL-18 FP-9 Body Shell Kit (Dual 48" Fans) EMD Vertical Slit Grilles (Farr) As built Late CNR FP-9 $99.95 CDN

A Central Hobbies Exclusive

From Central Hobbies in Vancouver, BC.  Not sure what the power would be but they are working on a new frame.

They also do FP7's as well.
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Posted by grayfox1119 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:40 PM
PATHFINDER: I "did" do an edit after I realized that the F9 should have been and FP9, as it "is" used in passenger service in North Conway, NH, as well as an F7.
Seeing that the FP9 is 4 feet longer than the F9, modifying an F9 is out, as I don't feel that adding the scaled 4 feet is a resonable solution.

I am going to talk with Central Hobbies as you have recommended.

Thank you Pathfinder,
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:22 PM
 grayfox1119 wrote:
who makes the best quality, best running , FP9? Or, should I buy an F7, and then purchase the add-ons to mount on the F7 to make it look like an FP9?
What scale are you talking about, from reading the thread it seems like HO?  In HO to me the best place to start a kitbash of an FP9 would be the Atlas FP7.  Or maybe the shell mentioned above would fit on the Atlas FP7 frame.
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Posted by Pathfinder on Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:33 PM
 grayfox1119 wrote:
PATHFINDER: I "did" do an edit after I realized that the F9 should have been and FP9, as it "is" used in passenger service in North Conway, NH, as well as an F7. Seeing that the FP9 is 4 feet longer than the F9, modifying an F9 is out, as I don't feel that adding the scaled 4 feet is a resonable solution. I am going to talk with Central Hobbies as you have recommended. Thank you Pathfinder,


Glad to help, I think my and your posts got crossed, so sorry for any bad feelings you may have got.

I see that InterMountain makes a FP7 in HO, that may also be a good starting point or a good power chassis for the Central Hobbies shell.
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Posted by grayfox1119 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:15 PM
Pathfinder: No bad feelings good buddy, quite the opposite, when I looked back at what I typed, I thought "wow" I am going to confuse a lot of guys out there.

In talking with Athearn today, they have an FP9 in the planning stages , for potential release in 2007.

But, I don't want to wait, as it can take longer if they get delayed, and we all know that routine.

So taking the Intermountain FP7 driver, and kitbashing it into a Central Hobbies HL-18 looks like the best approach at this point.

Does anyone else out there in MRR land have any other experience with this conversion, or similar conversion for an FP9?
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:51 PM
Looking on walthers.com, I'm seeing that the Intermountain FP's are sold out or special order items, E-R model importers are sold out, Model Power has FP7's but I doubt you want that.

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Posted by jrbernier on Friday, October 20, 2006 7:13 AM

  The Atlas FP7 is a late mode Phase !! FP7 and should be quite close to the CN FP9.  Not having a picture of the ex-CN unit, I can not tell.   The Canadian FP's were a little different than the US units.The upper grills had a 'Canada only' 3rd variation, and they did not like the F9 style vertical slit grills between the port hole windows(kept using the F7 style in Canadial production).  I am sure tha Central Hobbies conversin kit is accurate, but you do need a power chassis as this is just the shell kit.  Most folks use old Atlas chassis, or maybe you can get the IM chassis as a seperate part.  The IM FP7 comes in two variations(early/late UDS car bodies).

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Posted by grayfox1119 on Friday, October 20, 2006 6:15 PM
Thanks for the good info guys. I am now researching Intermountain (IM) and Atlas FP7 power chassis.

I am wondering if ANYONE out there in MRR land has actually kitbashed an FP9 using the Central Hobbies FP9 shell, and which power chassis they used, and what tips they may have for construction?
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by Pathfinder on Friday, October 20, 2006 7:48 PM
 grayfox1119 wrote:
Thanks for the good info guys. I am now researching Intermountain (IM) and Atlas FP7 power chassis. I am wondering if ANYONE out there in MRR land has actually kitbashed an FP9 using the Central Hobbies FP9 shell, and which power chassis they used, and what tips they may have for construction?


E-mail Hal at Central Hobbies with your questions, he is pretty good at responding.

The Atlas FP7's are good runners but rather light.  The couplers mounted on the shell, so that is another question for Hal: do the couplers mount on the FP9 shell?  This may influence your choice of power.


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Posted by grayfox1119 on Friday, October 20, 2006 10:30 PM
Pathfinder: Good point....I will email Hal with my questions.

Thanks Pathfinder !!
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by Pathfinder on Friday, October 20, 2006 11:01 PM
 grayfox1119 wrote:
Pathfinder: Good point....I will email Hal with my questions. Thanks Pathfinder !!


Glad to help, hope it works out for you.

Let us know how you end up doing, esp. re. the power chassis

I sent Hal an e-mail with a link to this topic, so he will be ready to answer your questions.
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Posted by grayfox1119 on Friday, October 20, 2006 11:26 PM
Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build:

http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426

You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by Pathfinder on Friday, October 20, 2006 11:37 PM
 grayfox1119 wrote:
Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build: http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426 You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.


I am not a CN guy  Smile [:)]  but those look very nice.

Your links:






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Posted by twcenterprises on Saturday, October 21, 2006 12:57 AM

Well, I can't help much on the detailing of the shells, but I have both the Atlas and Intermountain versions of the FP7, and I would say the drives are both of nearly equal quality.  The Atlas, as mentioned, has body mount couplers, with a friction mount steel pin, if I remember correctly, where the I/M's are a frame mount.  However, the I/M's are available with factory installed decoders and sound, and assuming you want that, then that would definately be a plus.  I also believe the Atlas shells aren't quite as detailed as the I/M's.  The only other issue would be actually finding and Atlas unit or 2, since they've been out of production for a number of years.  Sure, you could always try eBay or shows, swapmeets, or whatever, but you may end up spending just as much as you would the I/M units.

You may end up having to buy whichever unit you can find for the drive.  MR had an article in the October issue, and the article states the no FP9 models are commercially available.  I don't think the Highliners shell is available in the proper FP length, but I would think that since there are only a few detail differences you may need to use the I/M shell and apply the proper Highliners details for a proper conversion or use a Highliners kit or 2 and splice them together for a proper length FP shell.  Sounds to me like this is more work than you care to do, and I can't say I blame you, but if it were me, I'd be inclined to start with the I/M shell and add the neccessary details.

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Posted by grayfox1119 on Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:11 AM
BRAD: Central Hobbies in Vancouver, BC sells an FP9 shell, made by Kaslo Products of Canada. The Model # is HL-18, you can check it out on the Central Hobbies website. This is a resin molded body, and is supposed to be the extended prototype body for the EMD FP9. So now the issue is, find the drive that will fit. The length should obviously be no problem. The coupler would be best to have on the drive chassis not the shell. I believe, not sure though, that the IM drive does have the coupler mounted on the chassis.
I have emailed Central with my details and questions, as well as pictures of the FP9 in question.

PATHFINDER: Thank you so much for posting the pics of the FP9 6516 on the thread. I still cannot get pics posted because of issues between the new Microsoft Vista operating system ( RC1 beta version at this point), and, the new software upgrade on this forum. Now at least the guys on this forum can get a good look at 6516 and FP9's in general.
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Posted by Pathfinder on Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:52 AM
I will post a picture of my Atlas CP FP7 early next week so you can get an idea of what can be done with the Atlas shell.  But I left it as a FP7, not a 9.

On the Atlas body, I replaced the friction pin with a screw for each coupler.  And choice of coupler is limited due to close mounting with the truck.  I will show that in the photo too.
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Posted by Don Gibson on Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:45 PM

F-9s or FP-9's. The original inquiry got changed?

(1) FP's were 4' longer than 'F's. (2) All had steam boilers, and (3) only A units were made. Western roads such as WP ran them with existing F-7B's.

Late 7's & 9's also had the large Dynamic fan. Paint one up for the RR of your choice.

Highliner does NOT make an FP shell. Athearn is also not likely to put out an 'FP' shell when they can offer a 'F' shells painted in FP colors. It's not like they haven't done this before. Highliner never delivered their looong awaited 'A' shell.

The InterMountain unit is preferred to the Atlas Roco. It has See-thru grills, Dual headlamps, and correct height for KD's. The drive also is better, and pulls more using less current. Sound is an available option. Extra grills can be purchased from Detail Associates.

http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/loco/holocpow.htm

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Posted by grayfox1119 on Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:43 PM
DON, I edited the correction on page 1 of thread...should have read FP9, not F9. Central hobbies DOES make an FP9 shell CN, and I am looking into IM drive to retrofit to the FP9 shell.
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Posted by grayfox1119 on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:30 PM
Pathfinder: FP9 loco number 6505 and 6516 were in the earlier series, and therefore need shell HL-16, not HL-18 which were made for FP9's made after 1957. Hal is a great help, you are lucky to have such a professional guy and such a great LHS not too far away ( about 2 hour ride from Merritt ?? )
Also, the GP-38, model 9001 will be the drive. I may have to do some milling, but it should be a great match.
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Posted by Pathfinder on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:59 PM
Hal is great, glad he put you on the right track (ha ha).

He is about 3 hours away when there is no rush hour, but there is the $10 toll each way to pay plus some nasty winter driving.  I actually do not get into Vancouver much anymore, sometimes just not worth the trip.  I deal with him mostly by e-mail.

Still need to get my FP7 picture taken and posted.  It will be old school vs new.
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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 12:08 AM

 Pathfinder wrote:
 grayfox1119 wrote:
Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build: http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426 You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.


I am not a CN guy  Smile [:)]  but those look very nice.

Your links:






I notice that the trailing cab unit in the CN photo (in the quoted post above) has a huge winterisation hatch. I recall seeing one of these (6531) in Toronto in 1977, but I've only been able to find a ground level photo I took at the time. I may have (but haven't found) a B&W negative taken from the bridge across Spadina yard showing the roof of this unit, but my recollection is that the big hatch covered one of the two 48" radiator cooling fans.

The recent MR F-unit article did not mention 48" radiator cooling fans, but that would be an important modelling feature for later CN FP9s if all of them were like that.

Does anybody know if 6531 was an oddity or were all the later FP9s fitted with 48" radiator cooling fans?

I sent an e-mail to Kalmbach asking about this, but have had no reply.

Anyone out there familiar with late CN FP9 units, can you confirm how many there were like this?

M636C

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Posted by grayfox1119 on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:32 AM
M636C: FP7's after November 1951 began receiving Dynamic brakes, and therefore 48" brake fans. All the FP9's received dynamic brakes and 48" fans after that build date also.#6531 was built between March and May 1957 along with CN #'s 6523-6532.
Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119
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Posted by msowsun on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:55 AM

I don't think CN used dynamic brakes on their FP9's. If they did, they were removed at some point as these photos show.

 Only Canada had 10 "Phase II" FP9's. (CNR 6533-6542, GMD blt May-July 1958) These late production CNR units used two large 48" radiator cooling fans intstead of four 4 smaller 36" radiator cooling fans.  

6634 was a "B" Unit but also shared the same fan arrangement.

 

 

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Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:28 AM

Don Gibson,
Cut Athearn a little slack...they haven't (to my knowledge) pulled any shenanigans with their Genesis line of locos, such as painting a F9 like an FP9.

And Highliner did finally deliver their long awaited A shell.  You can order one today from Walthers:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-1001

Sure, they needed Athearn's deep pockets to finally get it on the market, but it's out there.  And note that while Horizon won't allow Walthers to carry Athearn products, Walthers is still selling Highliner shells...which means that Highliners is not owned by Horizon.

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