WHO MAKES THE BEST FP9 (IYHO)

[Pathfinder]

Pathfinder & Mosowsun: Thank you for pics of 6516. I cannot believe the pic of her at the "bone yard". It is amasing to see the transition from VIA to scrap yard, then repair after the crossing accident, then finally running in North Conway again in 1996 as " The Legend Returns" as she made the 1st run through Crawford Notch when the line through the mountain was re-opened. The brochure photo was taken as she entered the "gateway" at the top of the notch as she is about to enter a narrow cut in the granite mountain pass. Crawford RR station is about 500 yards ahead. I have since found out from the maintenance engineer that neither 6505 nor 6516 had dynamic brakes, therefore only 36" fans.

Glad to help.  I only posted pre Conway photo links, there were lots that came up for post-CN/VIA if that is what you wanted as well.  Google search for the road numbers, you will get more.

[Pathfinder]

"I have since found out from the maintenance engineer that neither 6505 nor 6516 had dynamic brakes, therefore only 36" fans. "

I don't understand why you make a connection between dynamic brakes and cooling fans.

...

I agree.  It is not just the F units, also applies to GP and SD series as well.

Off-Topic:  Firefox 2.0 spell check does not work with this forums software  ..  But I get the right clisk/paste option back 

[msowsun]

"I have since found out from the maintenance engineer that neither 6505 nor 6516 had dynamic brakes, therefore only 36" fans. "

I don't understand why you make a connection between dynamic brakes and cooling fans.

If so equipped, early F7's and FP7's had a single 36" dynamic brake fan. Beginning in August 1952,  if equipped with dynamic brakes, F7's, FP7's and FP9's had a larger 48" dynamic brake fan installed. The dynamic brake fan size size had no bearing on the cooling fans size. ALL the F units produced in the whole world ALL had four 36' radiator cooling fans.

The only exception is the last 10 FP9's and F9B's produced by General Motors in London, Ontario, Canada for CN in 1958. On these units the four 36" cooling fans were replaced by two 48" cooling fans. This also resulted in the exhaust stacks being relocated together between the two fans.

[grayfox1119]

Pathfinder & Mosowsun: Thank you for pics of 6516. I cannot believe the pic of her at the "bone yard". It is amasing to see the transition from VIA to scrap yard, then repair after the crossing accident, then finally running in North Conway again in 1996 as " The Legend Returns" as she made the 1st run through Crawford Notch when the line through the mountain was re-opened. The brochure photo was taken as she entered the "gateway" at the top of the notch as she is about to enter a narrow cut in the granite mountain pass. Crawford RR station is about 500 yards ahead.
I have since found out from the maintenance engineer that neither 6505 nor 6516 had dynamic brakes, therefore only 36" fans.

[msowsun]

Here is a photo shows the roof of 6516 as it appears now with Conway Scenic. (No dymanic brake and four 36" radiator cooling fans.) I assume the 6506 would be the same.

[Pathfinder]

MSOWSUN: By any chance, do you have any pics of FP9 6505 or 6516 ???

There is a colour photo of 6916 (in green) in Rail Canada Volume 1, Page 66.

Page 67 has a front view of 6507 (in red).

6516, in VIA paint (from CN SIG):







6516, in VIA paint (from  Railroad Picture Archives):



Hope these help.

Pathfinder

[grayfox1119]

MSOWSUN: By any chance, do you have any pics of FP9 6505 or 6516 ???

[msowsun]

Here are some more overhead shots that are good for modelling. Some of them show another type of large winterhatch covering 36" cooling fans...

[M636C]

I don't think CN used dynamic brakes on their FP9's. If they did, they were removed at some point as these photos show.

 Only Canada had 10 "Phase II" FP9's. (CNR 6533-6542, GMD blt May-July 1958) These late production CNR units used two large 48" radiator cooling fans intstead of four 4 smaller 36" radiator cooling fans.  

6634 was a "B" Unit but also shared the same fan arrangement.

Msowsun,

Thanks for those shots, particularly the shot of CN 6535. That must be taken from the spot I was standing when I realised that the unit I saw had 48" radiator fans. It seems that 6531 should not have 48" fans if I read the postings correctly, but in my ground level photo it has the big angled winterisation hatch, like the one on 6634 but extended at an angle down the roofline towards the sides. This is, as I said, visible on the third unit in the photo with 6516 leading posted above.

I guess 6531 might have swapped radiator hatches wth a later unit at some time. At least I have some confirmation about 48" fans on FP9s. I was beginning to doubt my memories (it was 1977) when I could only find the ground level shots.

M636C

[grayfox1119]

PAUL: You can be my first customer Paul, assuming that I do a good job kitbashing this baby. The guy I spoke with at Atlas said they have one on the drawing board, and "plan" to bring it to market in 2007. Are you holding your breath Paul? Do you need more O2 bottles?

And for everyone else that contributed to this good discussion , here is some more info that I found interesting:

EMD FP9
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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EMD FP9
RLGN 1400 (originally CN 6539) in 2003
Power type Diesel
Builder General Motors Electro-Motive Division (EMD)
Model FP9
Build date February 1954 – December 1959
Total production 90 A units
AAR wheel arr. B-B
Gauge 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm)
Power output 1,750 hp
The EMD FP9 was a 1,750 hp, B-B dual-service passenger and freight-hauling diesel locomotive produced between February 1954 and December 1959 by General Motors' Electro-Motive Division. Final assembly was at GM-EMD's La Grange, Illinois plant, except for Canadian orders, which were assembled by Canadian subsidiary GMDD at London, Ontario. The FP9 was essentially EMD's F9 locomotive extended by four feet to give greater steam generator and water capacity for hauling passenger trains. A total of 90 cab-equipped lead A units were built; unlike the freight series, no cabless booster B units were sold. Regular F9B units were sometimes used with FP9 A units, since they, lacking cabs, had more room for water and steam generators. The FP9 and its predecessor, the FP7, were offshoots of GM-EMD's highly successful F-unit series of cab unit freight diesels.


[edit] Identification
Just as in the previous FP7, the FP9's carbody is essentially the F9's with 4 feet extra added a little behind the cab, just aft of the forward truck. Unlike the FP7, the forward porthole window is relocated so that it is better balanced in the space, but there is still more room between the porthole and the first carbody filter grille behind it; it is just less obvious. As on the F9, there is now a carbody filter grille before the window as well.

There is, again, a space underneath the locomotive ahead of the regular fuel tanks; this may be empty, or contain additional tanks.


[edit] Deliveries
Only four of the total 90 FP9s were sold to customers in the United States, and these were rebuilt from FTs, were only 1,500 hp and were otherwise different. The rest of the total were built for Canada (54 locomotives), Mexico (25 locomotives) and Saudi Arabia (7 locomotives).

United States

Chicago and North Western Railway: 4 locomotives, #4051A-4054A. These were rebuilt FTs of 1,500 hp and were not externally identical to the others.
Canada

Canadian National Railway: 43 locomotives, #6500-6542
Canadian Pacific Railway: 11 locomotives, #1405-1415
Mexico

Ferrocarriles Nacionales de México: 25 locomotives, #7010-7034
Saudi Arabia

Saudi Government Railways: 7 locomotives, #1502-1508

[Paul W. Beverung]

Dick: As soon as you have spent as much as a good brass FP-9 would have cost and spent 120 hours building you own Athern and everyone else will bring out FP-9 in every conceivable color scheme. Let me know when you get yours finished so I can figure on getting a couple in Milw Rd.

[grayfox1119]

PAUL3: And of course when you go to the web site... "out of stock"!!! That didn't take long did it?

I'll have to do some research on the CN FP9's, the later versions "should" have been made with Dynamic brakes, and therefore all should have 48" cooling fans.

[msowsun]

Here is my Atlas FP7.....................

Here it is beside the new Intermountain FP7 to compare.................

 

[Paul3]

Don Gibson,
Cut Athearn a little slack...they haven't (to my knowledge) pulled any shenanigans with their Genesis line of locos, such as painting a F9 like an FP9.

And Highliner did finally deliver their long awaited A shell.  You can order one today from Walthers:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-1001

Sure, they needed Athearn's deep pockets to finally get it on the market, but it's out there.  And note that while Horizon won't allow Walthers to carry Athearn products, Walthers is still selling Highliner shells...which means that Highliners is not owned by Horizon.

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************

[msowsun]

I don't think CN used dynamic brakes on their FP9's. If they did, they were removed at some point as these photos show.

 Only Canada had 10 "Phase II" FP9's. (CNR 6533-6542, GMD blt May-July 1958) These late production CNR units used two large 48" radiator cooling fans intstead of four 4 smaller 36" radiator cooling fans.  

6634 was a "B" Unit but also shared the same fan arrangement.

 

 

[grayfox1119]

M636C: FP7's after November 1951 began receiving Dynamic brakes, and therefore 48" brake fans. All the FP9's received dynamic brakes and 48" fans after that build date also.#6531 was built between March and May 1957 along with CN #'s 6523-6532.

[M636C]

Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build: http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426 You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.

I am not a CN guy    but those look very nice.

Your links:

I notice that the trailing cab unit in the CN photo (in the quoted post above) has a huge winterisation hatch. I recall seeing one of these (6531) in Toronto in 1977, but I've only been able to find a ground level photo I took at the time. I may have (but haven't found) a B&W negative taken from the bridge across Spadina yard showing the roof of this unit, but my recollection is that the big hatch covered one of the two 48" radiator cooling fans.

The recent MR F-unit article did not mention 48" radiator cooling fans, but that would be an important modelling feature for later CN FP9s if all of them were like that.

Does anybody know if 6531 was an oddity or were all the later FP9s fitted with 48" radiator cooling fans?

I sent an e-mail to Kalmbach asking about this, but have had no reply.

Anyone out there familiar with late CN FP9 units, can you confirm how many there were like this?

M636C

[Pathfinder]

Hal is great, glad he put you on the right track (ha ha).

He is about 3 hours away when there is no rush hour, but there is the $10 toll each way to pay plus some nasty winter driving.  I actually do not get into Vancouver much anymore, sometimes just not worth the trip.  I deal with him mostly by e-mail.

Still need to get my FP7 picture taken and posted.  It will be old school vs new.

[grayfox1119]

Pathfinder: FP9 loco number 6505 and 6516 were in the earlier series, and therefore need shell HL-16, not HL-18 which were made for FP9's made after 1957. Hal is a great help, you are lucky to have such a professional guy and such a great LHS not too far away ( about 2 hour ride from Merritt ?? )
Also, the GP-38, model 9001 will be the drive. I may have to do some milling, but it should be a great match.

[grayfox1119]

DON, I edited the correction on page 1 of thread...should have read FP9, not F9. Central hobbies DOES make an FP9 shell CN, and I am looking into IM drive to retrofit to the FP9 shell.

[Don Gibson]

F-9s or FP-9's. The original inquiry got changed?

(1) FP's were 4' longer than 'F's. (2) All had steam boilers, and (3) only A units were made. Western roads such as WP ran them with existing F-7B's.

Late 7's & 9's also had the large Dynamic fan. Paint one up for the RR of your choice.

Highliner does NOT make an FP shell. Athearn is also not likely to put out an 'FP' shell when they can offer a 'F' shells painted in FP colors. It's not like they haven't done this before. Highliner never delivered their looong awaited 'A' shell.

The InterMountain unit is preferred to the Atlas Roco. It has See-thru grills, Dual headlamps, and correct height for KD's. The drive also is better, and pulls more using less current. Sound is an available option. Extra grills can be purchased from Detail Associates.

http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/loco/holocpow.htm

[Pathfinder]

I will post a picture of my Atlas CP FP7 early next week so you can get an idea of what can be done with the Atlas shell.  But I left it as a FP7, not a 9.

On the Atlas body, I replaced the friction pin with a screw for each coupler.  And choice of coupler is limited due to close mounting with the truck.  I will show that in the photo too.

[grayfox1119]

BRAD: Central Hobbies in Vancouver, BC sells an FP9 shell, made by Kaslo Products of Canada. The Model # is HL-18, you can check it out on the Central Hobbies website. This is a resin molded body, and is supposed to be the extended prototype body for the EMD FP9. So now the issue is, find the drive that will fit. The length should obviously be no problem. The coupler would be best to have on the drive chassis not the shell. I believe, not sure though, that the IM drive does have the coupler mounted on the chassis.
I have emailed Central with my details and questions, as well as pictures of the FP9 in question.

PATHFINDER: Thank you so much for posting the pics of the FP9 6516 on the thread. I still cannot get pics posted because of issues between the new Microsoft Vista operating system ( RC1 beta version at this point), and, the new software upgrade on this forum. Now at least the guys on this forum can get a good look at 6516 and FP9's in general.

[twcenterprises]

Well, I can't help much on the detailing of the shells, but I have both the Atlas and Intermountain versions of the FP7, and I would say the drives are both of nearly equal quality.  The Atlas, as mentioned, has body mount couplers, with a friction mount steel pin, if I remember correctly, where the I/M's are a frame mount.  However, the I/M's are available with factory installed decoders and sound, and assuming you want that, then that would definately be a plus.  I also believe the Atlas shells aren't quite as detailed as the I/M's.  The only other issue would be actually finding and Atlas unit or 2, since they've been out of production for a number of years.  Sure, you could always try eBay or shows, swapmeets, or whatever, but you may end up spending just as much as you would the I/M units.

You may end up having to buy whichever unit you can find for the drive.  MR had an article in the October issue, and the article states the no FP9 models are commercially available.  I don't think the Highliners shell is available in the proper FP length, but I would think that since there are only a few detail differences you may need to use the I/M shell and apply the proper Highliners details for a proper conversion or use a Highliners kit or 2 and splice them together for a proper length FP shell.  Sounds to me like this is more work than you care to do, and I can't say I blame you, but if it were me, I'd be inclined to start with the I/M shell and add the neccessary details.

Brad

[Pathfinder]

Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build: http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426 You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.

I am not a CN guy    but those look very nice.

Your links:

[grayfox1119]

Pathfinder: Here are the links to the FP9 that I am trying to build:

http://www.divisionpoint.com/photos/EMD_Fs/CNR_6516.jpg


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=117426

You may have to copy these to your browser to open because I am Beta testing the new Vista OS for Microsoft, RC1 version, and things may not agree with this forums new software.

[Pathfinder]

Pathfinder: Good point....I will email Hal with my questions. Thanks Pathfinder !!

Glad to help, hope it works out for you.

Let us know how you end up doing, esp. re. the power chassis

I sent Hal an e-mail with a link to this topic, so he will be ready to answer your questions.

[grayfox1119]

Pathfinder: Good point....I will email Hal with my questions.

Thanks Pathfinder !!

[Pathfinder]

Thanks for the good info guys. I am now researching Intermountain (IM) and Atlas FP7 power chassis. I am wondering if ANYONE out there in MRR land has actually kitbashed an FP9 using the Central Hobbies FP9 shell, and which power chassis they used, and what tips they may have for construction?

E-mail Hal at Central Hobbies with your questions, he is pretty good at responding.

The Atlas FP7's are good runners but rather light.  The couplers mounted on the shell, so that is another question for Hal: do the couplers mount on the FP9 shell?  This may influence your choice of power.