Something else that hasn't been said, "Sodor" would, in a sense, be a freelanced line, based on the fictitious prototype. That is to say, the real "Sodor" exists, only in model form. If you built your own version of "Sodor", would you be any less the modeler than anyone who builds their own version of the V&O, or the G&D, or freelances any other road? You LHS folks may think so, if their snickering isn't just "all in fun". If I went into my LHS and bought the Thomas line, and I started hearing the jabs, I would probably say something like "these are for my son" (probably truthfully), but I would also be tempted to say something like "yeah, I plan on running Thomas right alongside my BLI F units, and my Spectrum steamers, so what? I'm not ashamed to admit it" or to ask whether any other modeler has any other kind of unrealistic rolling stock, be it a Southern Railway F45 (I have one, even though Southern never did), a SF GG1 (I've not seen one, but you never know), or if their scratchbuilt flatcar is missing a row of rivets, or whatever.
Truth is, most of us have compromises in the level of realism in our equipment to varying degrees, and there have been photos of 1:1 versions of Thomas, so who's to laugh if you're buying the model? The only modelers who could even have a legitimate arguement would be those who have scratchbuilt or superdetailed their models to the Nth degree, and who have replicated a specific place and time so meticulously, that even an expert museum curator could not find any discrepancies in their efforts. These modelers are so few and far between, aside from all the modelers who strive for this level, but still have a ways to go, that I would doubt there are maybe 100 in the world. The rest would have at least 1 discrepancy on their layout, be it an out-of-place car, locomotive, detail on said car or locomotive, structure or whatever.
My point is this: even if you're in your 40's or 50's or even older, what's so wrong with running Thomas? Even if your kids are grown, you may have grandkids, or nieces/nephews or other extended family. Along those lines, what's so wrong with fixing up an old Tyco/Model Power or other "low quality" engine? Some of us have sentimental attachments to these old engines, and would like to be able to run them occasionally "for old time's sake". I have even been known to upgrade an old Tyco type car with Kadee's and metal wheels.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
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Railphotog wrote: What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene? Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?
What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene? Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Ya know what...? If I had the space and there was more Thomas the Tank Engine in N scale...I would love to model Sodor.
I'm still a Thomas fan; and I'm 17. So if I were to build a Thomas layout...It would be for me as I have no children at this moment in time. I don't think I would be critized at my LHS...Because I work there and am good friends with everyone. They would probably think it would be a fairly cool idea. However, if it was spread around the school that a high school senior is playing with toy trains that came from a show for four year olds...I'd be laughed at around every corner. Would it bother me? It may get annoying after a few weeks...But I wouldn't stop doing it.
Don't worry about the people at your LHS. And if it does bother you, just explain to them that the layout you are building isn't just for you to run trains on. They'll support the idea that you are helping to bring in a new generation to the hobby.
But there is always that magic about Thomas that seems to linger with train enthusiasts everywhere.
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
Something that isn't always recognised is that while the original Thomas stories were simply based on bedtime stories told by Awdry senior to Awdry junior, much of the later books was based on their model railway.
Henry was rebuilt from an LNER prototype Pacific to an LMS prototype 4-6-0 because Awdry had obtained a model of an LMS Stanier "Black Five" and painted it green as his "Henry".
"Duck" was called that because the particular model Awdry had on his layout (a "Gaiety" GWR 57XX 0-6-0 pannier Tank) had a bad waddle, and when running looked like a duck.
The selection of diesel locomotives reflected the availability of models in the early 1960s, BoCo being the Hornby Dublo Metropolitan Vickers Type 2 and the other being the Triang Beyer Peacock "Hymek".
The visit of "Flying Scotsman" to Sodor "from the mainland" coincided with the release by Hornby of a model of the preserved locomotive.
In 1948, of course, the private Sodor railway was nationalised, as was the rest of the British Railways, and Sir Topham Hatt, who had been the "Fat Director" of the private railway became the "Fat Controller" of the nationalised "Region". This character was in fact based on a well known railfan and friend of Awdry (whose name escapes me)
While Bachmann base their models on the drawings from the book, the Hornby "Thomas" models are all recycled British prototype models. The "Hymek" is of course the original Triang moulding that Awdry used on his layout, Hornby now providing a face moulding on one end.
Awdry's Sodor, in the books at least, adhered to prototype practice somewhat more than the TV stories, but more than most model railways. Following the books would be a good guide for a scale British layout, as well as a Thomas collection.
Take an original Thomas book to the Hobby shop, and explain how you are following a real prototype, as well as a sadly little known but very influential classic layout!
M636C
Ah, but that's the wrong shade of blue on Thomas....
Trevor,
Let's face it: we're all reliving our childhoods in one way or another through our modeling (the adult term for "playing with trains"), and so what? It's healthy, creative, and as you've proven, provides a fantastic way to bond with the next generation. The sky is the limit as far as creativity goes, and as much as I admire the rivet counter's masterpiece photo spreads in Model RR'er, the rivet counting can become really obsessive, to the point that many people feel intimidated by the hobby. That may partially explain the falling number of model railroaders. Unless you're modeling a museum piece, a layout is much more attractive (especially to kids) if it involves elements of humor & whimsy. It's your world, so what you say goes.
You're son is learning so much from doing this with you, as well as spending a lot of quality time with Dad. The guys at the LHS, assuming they were really unkind and not just mildly amused, are shooting themselves in the foot. It's that sort of elitist attitude that will do this hobby in -- this belief that only a select few carry the torch of model railroading, and the rest of the people are just playing with toys.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Hey Trevor,
I am in the middle of converting a Thomas engine to DCC...and I just say PSHAW to those who snicker. My son love two engines... Thomas and my lionel Challenger and heck, that is one of the big reasons I model railroad... so I can have some fun with him! Quick question, does the Bachman have a DCC plug or did you "wire it". I have a lil cheapo thomas with a wire wound motor that I am having difficulty getting to work right... (the motor I think)...
Brian
twcenterprises comment about a 1:1 Thomas reminded me...
I've taken the kids to ride on the 1:1 Thomas twice now, over at Strasburg. I think I get more of a charge out of it than they do. They dig the ride, then want to know if we can go buy a new piece for their Brio-style Thomas wooden train set. I just want to go have another ride.
kchronister wrote: twcenterprises comment about a 1:1 Thomas reminded me... I've taken the kids to ride on the 1:1 Thomas twice now, over at Strasburg. I think I get more of a charge out of it than they do. They dig the ride, then want to know if we can go buy a new piece for their Brio-style Thomas wooden train set. I just want to go have another ride.
Let's hear it for "purists" everywhere!
Japan has its own Thomas knockoff, SL-man, part of a preschool superhero cartoon. When the tourist-oriented Otaru Railway temporarily modified a C11 class 2-6-4 into SL-man, bright red paint, white wheels and "arms" growing out of the side tanks, the Japanese railfan community was incensed! How DARE the owners desecrate a real, operating Japan National Railways locomotive, even temporarily? (On the other hand, the kids and a lot of parents loved it.)
I remember when the 1:1 Thomas visited Nashville. The base for the visit was the original Tennessee Central station, and it was wall-to-wall folks! A lot of them took the opportunity to take a look at the club layout which was also on display.
I, too, have encountered a few individuals of questionable manners at shows and LHS. Once, after I mentioned my choice of prototype, a parlor patriot sneered, "Watzamattuh? America ain't good enough fer ya?" When I flipped out my military ID and asked what branch he'd served in, he got VERY quiet.
So, for all the modelers who wish to get off (and well away from) the beaten track, more power to you, and good luck in creating your dream.
Illegitamati non carborundum!
Chuck (modeling central Japan in September, 1964)
Next time you go to your LHS, ask them what they are laughing at?. Is it me or my dollars? No matter what they answer they lose. If they are laughing at you then you wont be bringing your dollars to them anymore. If they are laughing at your dollars, well you won't bring them back.
Many years ago, at a time when I had little funds to spend on my hobby, I came across a dealer who told his assistent at a train meet not to waste time on me as I had not much money to spend. Until then I had spent a few dollars at his shop. Now that my economic situation is so much different He does not get one cent from me. Best of all he knows why.
Anyway you do your own thing and enjoy this great hobby.
'My name is Jon, I'm 43 and I model Thomas the Tank Engine' (Thomas Anonymous)
Model whatever you like. After all, we're all only 'playing with toy trains'. Those snickers will come from the non-modelling fraternity anyway.
Happy modelling,
Jon
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TGG wrote:. The funny thing is, (and the point of my post) when I go to my LHS, the staff give me the impression that I'm not as respected as other model railroaders because of my choice of "road". I've seen the raised eyebrow, and heard the little snickers. To be honest it seems a little immature to me. I mean they had no issues when I was dropping big bucks on a HO scale, DCC/Sound equiped, CN F3A-B. If the store wasn't so well stocked, I'd probably take my business elsewhere. Am I being overly sensitive or do you think this is as wrong as I do?
The often quoted saying of, "It's your railroad and you can do as you please" may be true but in doing so, remember that at the same time it comes with the caveat that you can't expect your work to be taken seriously by everyone else either.
CNJ831
Thomas the Train is a bit creepy for me! A talking train? Ranks up there with clowns! Just kidding! Anyways, who cares what those guys think. It is great bonding time with your son and may perhaps get him turned onto modelling trains later in life. Go for it and enjoy!
Sodor rules, dogs drool!
If you return to the LHS you might share your impressions with the owner/manager to make them aware of a situation that is probably afflicting their business on other levels beyond your experience there. The Disney people addressed their public by stressing to the staff that the public were guests at the theme parks and that the staff was expected to treat them as guests. Your impressions may be a little over sensitive, but no less valid. Retention of a customer is the most expensive aspect of business and probably the most over looked. While they may spend large sums to advertise to attract new customers (ie. new $s) through the doors, little is spent in retaining those individuals once they have visited.
I terms of your modeling, I cannot think of a more rigid prototype to follow, or better reasons to pursue it. The inter action between a father and son is priceless. The learning aspects are innumerable. The reason railroads grew up and continued to exist was the need to move people and products from a point of origin to a logical destination. Gather up milk from the farm, take it to the dairy, pick up bottled milk and ice cream to be delivered to the camp grounds for the picnic which the trains had hauled passengers to attend. Sounds like an economic microcosim to me, and you thought you were just "playing trains" with your son!! I wonder if the snickerers at the LHS have as good a grasp of the "island" that they model?
I hate the "it's your railroad do what you want" theme. I don't expect that you will run a Big Boy or Challenger on your version of Sodor pulling a stack train of intermodal containers, but your son may develop an understanding of why those containers are going by in the real life trains he may see. What ever your course of action with regard to the LHS, continue to enjoy your time with your son!
Will
I say Build Thomas!! I am lucky enough to have Cabbose hobbies in my backyard and they have a whole row devoted to Thomas!! It is great to see the kids there playing with the wood set. I am 24 and used to watch thomas on the local PBS station and loved it. I feel it is a very educational show that teaches kids today something that we lack as a country, and that is "IMAGEINATION" It is what this country was built on and our younger generations have less and less. But any ways off my rant now.
Curt
TGG wrote:Wow! I was just venting a little frustration and didn't expect many replies.
Sadly the "Hey Bob look at this..." winks and nods were from the owner to the manager, and I don't think I was supposed to notice. It wasn't like they stood back and openly mocked me. That would be suicide. I just got the feeling that because I wasn't buying high end brass, BLI or Tower 55 that I was something less than a "real" model railroader. It happened one other time as well, with the same two guys, and I was buying an Atlas S1 that was marked down in price.
Did you consider the possibility that the jocularity displayed by the owner and manager may have had absolutely nothing to do with your purchases, or with you at all?
TGG wrote:On a time line, the Atlas S1 incident occurred first...
Railphotog wrote: Well if you think of it, the Thomas the Tank Engine TV series seemes to be aimed at pre-school children. Most of the material offered for sale is toys. You tell them at the hobby shop that this is what you are modeling and they don't treat you with respect? Perhaps if you were to emphasize that you are building with your young son it might make things more clear? What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene? Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?
Well if you think of it, the Thomas the Tank Engine TV series seemes to be aimed at pre-school children. Most of the material offered for sale is toys. You tell them at the hobby shop that this is what you are modeling and they don't treat you with respect? Perhaps if you were to emphasize that you are building with your young son it might make things more clear?
That figures, coming from you, Bob. Fact is, your layout is just as make believe as Thomas or Sesame Street. They all are. I would have expected nothing less from you, though.
LHS owners can be tempermental. Perhaps many of them are in their business to start with because they're so "into" their hobbies and have strong feelings about them.
At a LHS around here, you get read the riot act if you call a non-operating unit a "dummy unit." When I was younger, I got into trouble for calling a graphic novel a "comic book."
It's a wierd part of the hobby culture. In general, I hear a lot of model train folks justifying themselves, as to why their layout is not "prototypical," or why they are using a fictitious line, etc.
In the end, we're all playing with toys.
Brian,
If it's the Bachmann loco there are no DCC plugs, you have to hardwire the decoder. The motor is isolated from the frame though so that's a help. Also, you don't need the circuit board that's in there, remove it. I think you'll find the color of the motor wires are the exact opposite of NMRA standard for DCC plugs. In an overly energetic moment I replaced them, for looks. Also, if you convert Henry, you might want to drill a hole through the metal frame to allow direct routing of the motor wires into the cab area. This will avoid the wires being pinched when you slide the body back on.
Don't know the layout of the Hornby loco's.
Tilden
If it was between the manager and another employee, it might have been an "I told you this stuff would sell" look. A little payback to a doubting Thomas (sorry about that).