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No respect for Thomas modeller

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No respect for Thomas modeller
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:14 AM
I started model railroading 2 years ago because my son got hooked on wooden Thomas the Tank engine.  In fact, it's because of wooden Thomas that I got into the hobby.  Now, after going through a couple encarnations of my HO scale layout, I have decided to build my own HO Scale Island of Sodor, Thomas layout.  I have been buying the Bachmann Thomas equipment, and for the most part I am impressed with the running quality of what is for all intents and purposes a "toy" train.   It converts well to DCC.

The funny thing is, (and the point of my post) when I go to my LHS, the staff give me the impression that I'm not as respected as other model railroaders because of my choice of "road".   I've seen the raised eyebrow, and heard the little snickers.  To be honest it seems a little immature to me.  I mean they had no issues when I was dropping big bucks on a HO scale, DCC/Sound equiped, CN F3A-B.  If the store wasn't so well stocked, I'd probably take my business elsewhere.  Am I being overly sensitive or do you think this is as wrong as I do?

Am I the only 40 year old modelling the "Sodor" road?  I don't really care about that point, I'm just curious.  My son and I love it and are having a lot of fun modelling Sodor, and that's really what it's all about.

I look forward to reading your responses.
Trevor
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Posted by TomDiehl on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:19 AM
You may be the "only 40 year old modelling the "Sodor" road," but connections like this are a great way to get the younger generation exposed and possibly involved in the hobby. I'm sure in the next decade or so when we read about great model layouts, we're going to start seeing "I got started with a small Thomas the Tank Engine set" as a lead in to the builder's background. Programs like "Shining Time Station" and the Harry Potter movies have brought to the market several specialized theme sets that can be the intro needed to start people in model railroading.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by cacole on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:21 AM

My solution would be to use mail order, save money in the process, and avoid the hostile local hobby shop crowd.

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Posted by GearDrivenSteam on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:21 AM
Yes, Thomas is the Rodney Dangerfield of model railroading. I think it's all BS though, because Thomas is cool. I got my grandson a Thomas plastic set from Wal Mart and it's his favorite toy when he comes to visit. I think that Thomas the Train makes it very easy to introduce children into the world of model railroading. Nothing wrong with adults modeling him, either. You're correct about DCC conversions. They are easy. Cheap, easy to work on, the children love it and it's reliable. I don't think you could ask much more. To hell with the LHS if that's how they feel. At least you're modeling.
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Posted by One Track Mind on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:24 AM

Model what you want. Model what you and your son will enjoy.

Yeah you might be the only 40 year old who models Sodor, but so what?

And at 40 I'd quit worrying what other people think.

I am disappointed that any hobby shop snickers at a customer who is buying something. I guess that's to be expected in your case, especially from other customers...but in the case of a LHS employee making fun of your Thomas purchases...that may well be on the immature side, but it's also not a real good business practice!

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:24 AM

I started out modeling Hogwarts so that my kids would be involved. Who cares whether your hobby shop likes or dislikes what you are doing. Besides, you can probably get what you want cheaper on the Internet.

Doing things with your kids is far more important than your LHS's opinion of your road name.  

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SilverSpike on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:32 AM

I support your decision all the way! If you and your son are having fun doing the "Sodor" line then that is all that is important. Any chance you can get to bond with your son is worth more than the snickers and jeers that the LHS is giving you.

It really surprises me that they are not giving you the support especially since you are spending good money on things you like.

Hobby shops are a dying breed and if you are not comfortable with them I am sure there are plenty of online options available to you. One of the main reasons I enjoy my LHS so much is the one-on-one contact I can get in supporting and answering all my questions, but if I did not have them I would be going online again.

If I were in your shoes and the next time I went to that shop to spend some $$$ on items and I got a jeer or a snicker from them I would have to assert myself. I would have let them know that it makes me uncomfortable when I spend my money at their shop and they are making rude comments. I would also ask to speak to the owner or manager and let them know that I can take the business elsewhere.

In today’s shrinking local hobby shop market it makes good business sense for them to make their customers feel welcome and want to spend money in their shops.

Ryan Boudreaux
The Piedmont Division
Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger era
Cajun Chef Ryan

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Posted by SOU Fan on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:39 AM

I have never modeled Thomas but when I was a kid I checked out all the videos from the library.  I now have a nephew who likes trains.  He is 5 years old and loves the HO scale 4 x 8 layout the uncle sets up, but I suspect he loves Thomas also.

If you like Thomas go ahead and model it.  The "hobby shop" that thinks your nuts, well I think they just lost a customer.  Am I right??  They have no right to laugh at you since you model Thomas whether you are forty or four.

My 2 cents [2c]

-dekruif

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Posted by One Track Mind on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:46 AM

Something else needs to be pointed out about snickering in a hobby shop, in case you are relatively new to the atmosphere...I don't see it as much anymore...but in the old days you'd see Missouri Pacific modellers making fun of Rock Island modellers and vice versa.

I'm not saying that makes it right to snicker at you, but for some folks in a hobbyshop, some of the snickering just comes with the territory.

Plus you should be thanked for supporting, and hopefully continue to support your local hobby shop. Although that was a good suggestion about maybe confronting the owner or manager about the ungratefulness shown.

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Posted by JamesPH1966 on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:47 AM

Model what you want - it's your railroad.

 I can remember when I first joined the TCA as a teenager and had to "justify" collecting Marx tin litho (back when it was "cheap tin junk" as opposed to nowadays when it's become "fine collectable lithographed tin-plate art" - 20-odd years later my trash has truely become a treasue!).  If you LSH wants to act like that, take the above advise and go mail-order.  I'd even suggest looking into British prototype stuff from Bachmann and Hornby since the wheels, couplers etc. are completely compatable (I say this because I also collect Brit outline OO and, well, Hobbytown has these nice tank wagons that just happen to have "Sodor Oil" on the side instead of "BP" or whatever - and look good behind my Class 37 regardless).    

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, October 16, 2006 10:57 AM
Rather odd reaction from a LHS...
 
The LHSs near me wouldnt care if you were modeling Mr Rogers Neighborhood as long as you were coming in and buying the stuff from THEM and supporting their business, rather than buying off the internet.
 
You might remind them of that simple fact..."Ya know, ya keep snickering I might switch to buying from the interent" and also if their such "serious" modelers, why do they even bother stocking Thomas items in the first place?

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 16, 2006 11:09 AM
How much is actually closet jealousy? When I've run my gauge 1 James and Lehmann bubble car at shows it quite often draws a LOT more comments, and smiles, than the "proper" modular layouts.....

Besides, if you can model to the standards on the show, you can model ANYTHING well.
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Posted by frisco1519 on Monday, October 16, 2006 11:13 AM

Trevor,

I also support your idea to model Thomas. I have my own large HO scale layout but I built a smaller Thomas layout for my two young Grandson's. I also purchased the Bachman sets and have continued to add more cars and engines to their layout. It really keeps them busy for hours and also keeps them from trying to run mine which is considerably more complicated to operate. My LHS never says a word about what I buy. I even took an engine and cars to our clubs layout one afternoon to run for a group of kids that came to watch the trains run. As always, Thomas was the star of the show. They were watching it more than the large intermodel and mixed freight trains that were also running.

George

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, October 16, 2006 12:14 PM

Yeah, and there are people who won't respect my layout either, because I use Code 100 track and some of my cars have plastic wheels.

I'd like to see your layout on Photo Fun some weekend.  We always appreciate a good modelling job, and something like a "serious" Thomas layout would be worth seeing.

If I had train-friendly kids or grandkids, I'd probably go out and get a Thomas set myself, just to run for them.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by on30francisco on Monday, October 16, 2006 12:18 PM
Don't worry what others think of your choice of modeling, whether it's Thomas or any other other type of railroad. This is a hobby and the main purpose is to have fun. I sometimes get strange looks at hobby shops when I ask about supplies for Lagre Scale logging equipment or anything else that's not mainstream.  I mostly use online and mail order hobby shops that are much cheaper, more helpful and knowledgeable, and better stocked than most LHSs. If I were you I would shop online or through mail order hobby shops. Some LHSs can be very cliquish and hostile toward customers that model anything outside of mainstream interests.  
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Posted by selector on Monday, October 16, 2006 12:37 PM

My education is at odds with my temperament; the former says I should be polite and learn if the snickering is genuinely derisive or if it is a sign of something else.  The latter says I should ask the person about their amusement, and if the answer is not satisfactory, to tell them that it is so unfortunate that I will no longer be able to support the business, and that I would be advising my friends to stay away.

Snickering about one's choice is likely a sign of rigidity, and that is never a good thing for a business, nor for someone to whom you go for advice or help.  If people don't advance, they fall behind (attributed to Seneca).

Finally, their apparent position begs the question- why sell what you deride?  If you know or believe that something is in some way deficient on a given dimension, why would you make it a practice to offer it to valued customers?

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Posted by Adelie on Monday, October 16, 2006 12:55 PM
Model whatever you want and makes you and your son happy.

As for the hobby shop, I am reminded of a basic tenet of retail that I have had to remind a few businesses in the past when discussing "their policy."  The relationship between the hobby shop and you revolves around your money.  As such, you will decide how to use it.  If they want to foot the bill, then they can decide.

How do you think they will respond when you follow up that lesson with "are you buying?"

In this hobby, there is always somebody wanting a snicker at somebody else's work.  They snicker at you over Thomas, Spacemouse over Hogwarts, and probably at me because I model a freelance road that never has nor will exist.  Operations-types snicker at model "railfan" types and vice-versa.  Scratchbuilders snicker at kitbuilders who snicker at ready-to-run folks.  LHS loyalists snicker at online buyers who snicker at ebay buyers who snicker at swap-meet buyers, who snicker at LHS loyalists.  And yet, to one degree or another, we are all grown adults playing with trains, creating our own miniature world, or both.

- Mark

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Posted by dwRavenstar on Monday, October 16, 2006 1:26 PM

I'd be tempted to see if they snicker when told that you're only there to look at the item because your son is excited and just can't wait for the UPS truck to arrive on Monday.

Then I'd ask to purchase a couple packs of track spikes.  Leave 'em wondering just how much product they're no longer selling to you and their lost future customer.

dwRavenstar

If hard work could hurt us they'd put warning lables on tool boxes
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Posted by cwclark on Monday, October 16, 2006 1:39 PM

The guys at the LHS are stupid for laughing at your choice of road....I'd tell them if they don't appreciate it, I could very well take my business elswhere if they find it so amusing...(I'd also have a great urge to dot both their eyes, but prison isn't that appealing to me)...That's just plain wrong on their part...Thomas the tank engine is cool and i try to watch it every chance i can on PBS even at 40+(closer to 50)

Maybe you can get Sir Toppum Hat to put out a contract on those imbeciles and rough them up a bit . He's the guy with all the connections.......chuck

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Posted by emdgp92 on Monday, October 16, 2006 1:39 PM
 GearDrivenSteam wrote:
Yes, Thomas is the Rodney Dangerfield of model railroading.


Try modeling the PC in the middle of PRR territory :p PRR, NYC, and NH fans hate us because our road "killed" theirs...even though all 3 were damaged goods long before then. :p

But seriously, I don't know why some people have this "need" to put down the modeling efforts of others. To me, the hobby is big enough for all of us. I don't go around slamming the work of others, especially when mine's not perfect either--take a look at my layout photos, especially the one of the BN E7 to see what I mean.

Not too long ago, I was insulted by an LHS. I was down there attempting to get parts for an old Model Power steam engine. The shop owner said that he couldn't understand why I wanted to fix that "piece of crap." Needless to say, unless he has some out-of-production cars or kits, I don't shop there unless I have to.

But, I do know a guy who just *loves* to turn the tables on these kinds of folks. He's kitbashing a set of Lionel F units in PC colors just to torque off the purists :p
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, October 16, 2006 1:44 PM
 One Track Mind wrote:
Something else needs to be pointed out about snickering in a hobby shop, in case you are relatively new to the atmosphere...I don't see it as much anymore...but in the old days you'd see Missouri Pacific modellers making fun of Rock Island modellers and vice versa.
Sign - Ditto [#ditto] It often isn't real snickering either just old fashion rib poking. Sometimes it is just a male method of starting a dialog.  Certain railroads take it on the chin at certain times for different reasons.  All the UP folks at the club took a lot of grief over the legal trademark issues.  Then the BNSF had a series of deraliments and it was their turn for some snickering.  If the cover of the MR has a warbonnet on it, then it is the AT&SF people's turn to lord it over us NP types.  It was/is all in fun (unless the SP is involved and those are real snickers).
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Posted by Tilden on Monday, October 16, 2006 2:33 PM

Gee Trevor, I bet the LHS still took your money!!!  Next time pay in small change and claim it came from the piggy bank. Laugh [(-D]

I don't model Sodor...but I would if I had more room.  I got a Thomas for my girlfriend's boys.  Now I have them all, with cars and Toby on order.  They are all converted to DCC and Gordon and Henry have sound.  The boys LOVE running them on the layout.  The biggest crisis weekend before last was trying to explain to a 4 year old why he couldn't pull my daylight cars behind Henry (haven't converted Thomas stuff to Kadees).

It is a great way to get the younger generation initiated into the hobby.  They identify with Thomas and their imaginations do the rest.  As I said, if I had the room I'd add a 5x9 Island of Sodor with harbor and quarry.  I'd even tack a scale hand painted sign on the Isle of Sodor sign saying "No Deseasels".

As far as the equipment goes, it's simple and sturdy.  The motors are Spectrum motors because Bachmann said it wouldn't be economical to set up a seperate line just for Thomas stuff.

Don't be afraid to send pics when you get going.

And Mr. Beasly, don't worry about the code 100 and plastic wheels, it just means you're not really in the hobby..snicker, snicker.Big Smile [:D]  (Just kidding)

Tilden

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 16, 2006 3:03 PM

I absolutely concur. 10-20 years down the road, you'll hear "I got started with Thomas" as often as you hear "I got started with a Tyco/Bachmann box set" or a "Lionel setup" today.

Plus, if the Thomas stuff is so rotten, why does the store carry it? Can't be that bad.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Sodor as a layout. If you took the one I see on TV with my kids and pulled off the bright-colored, smiley-face trains and replaced them with something more "real" I bet those same guys who poo-poo it would talk about the nice scenery, the cool use of real running water, etc. and so forth. I, for one, would LOVE to see some overall photos of the layout, a documentary on the modelling aspects of the show, or even a tour!

And while my layout is not Sodor, I do own several of the Bachmann Thomas trains in order to get my kids involved, and I have no shame about it. They live in the roundhouse with the 'real' locos - I don't "hide" them when the kids aren't around. Heck, I put DCC decoders in 'em that cost more than the dang loco! Now that's crazy-talk right there!

It's not just Thomas. You get many who 'look down their nose' at those who don't:

  • superdetail their locos
  • handlay track (at least switches, at least some of them)
  • build everything from kits or scratch, rather than buying RTR
  • build 'craftsman' kits rather than walther's plastic stuff
  • build scratchbuilt structures rather than 'craftsman' kits.
  • adhere slavishly to prototype - both operationally and equipment wise
  • weather their rolling stock
  • ballast their track
  • And the big no-wins: do/don't like sound, do/don't like DCC. That's a friggin' holy war. 
  • And Heaven Forbid you simply have a loop of track and enjoy making the trains go roundy-round on it...

See, there's a whole hierarchy of skills and a whole hierarchy of how intense you want to get versus just enjoying it. I think the skill of 'imagining' is woefully undervalued in this hobby. Is it a matter of "you'll never be good enough." OR, is it a matter of "You'll never be bored..." It's a matter of attitude by those with the skills.

Now, I msyelf do some of those things above, and some I don't do. I think ALL of them are great, and I think doing ANY of them is a fine skill. I hope one day to do all of them myself (except maybe the truly slavish prototype thing... That's not for me).

More importantly, I hope they're all skills people are willing to share rather than hoard.  It's a lot easier to sniff at someone who doesn't know how to handlay a turnout than it is to teach them how to do it.

Seek out the clubs, shops and groups that lean toward the latter. They do exist.

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Posted by lvanhen on Monday, October 16, 2006 3:53 PM
When my grandson was 2 - he had ADD and other problems (still has).  The first time he looked at TV for more than 2 minutes was 1. Kids Love Toy Trains and 2. Thomas (Shining Time Station).  He is now 10 & has other interests, but Thomas & trains are still top fun for him.  I have a small layout, I have a Lionel Veranda, an Athern Challenger (with bad sound), and a couple of Atlas diesels, all DCC, as well as Thomas (Hornby), James, Percy(Bachmann), and a dozen or so cars.  My LHS made no comment when I asked to order the Bachmann before they were released, and called when they eventually came in (the original shipment was six months late!)  Anything that gets young people off video games and doing something a little physical is only good.  Please post pics of The Island of Sodor asap!!  Last, but not leaast, anybody care to give some info on what decoder chip(s) will work on the Bachmann & Hornby engines and a little how to - PLEASE!!
Lou V H Photo by John
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Posted by rayw46 on Monday, October 16, 2006 4:04 PM
I saw a Thomas Passenger Car at my LHS; don't remember the name.  I am seriously considering purchasing it, converting the couplers and using it as one of the passenger cars on a tourist train behind my Bachmann Ten Wheeler.  It's actually a fair model althought the under-carraige detail is a little over sized.  But, who cares, are rather, who cares who cares.
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Posted by zxb1 on Monday, October 16, 2006 4:40 PM
My nephew has several thomas the tank engine vhs tapes, believe it or not I watch the videos more than he does. It got me back into the hobby, really ! So what, let people laugh ! Life's to short now a days. Do what makes you and yours happy !
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Posted by conford on Monday, October 16, 2006 5:25 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles at the LHS. Mine sells the Thomas stuff and it's right down there where the kids can find it. My kids. I'm glad they loke the hobby shop, and Thomas is a character who is attracting children to the hobby -- a few adults too. There will always be kids who love trains, and the challenge for the hobby is to help those kids become model railroaders. Hooray for you for honoring your child's interest and getting involved.

I think a weathered Thomas would look cool.

You know, a lot of the guys are still trying to live down the "playing with trains" moniker, and I wonder if what you're doing hits a little too close to home for them. So just relax.

My only objection to Thomas is that he has big flanges and I'd have to replace the wheels to get him to run on my code 83/70 layout.

Enjoy!
Peter

Modeling Grand Rapids Michigan, C&O, PRR and NYC operations circa 1958.
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Posted by reklein on Monday, October 16, 2006 5:34 PM

"Besides, if you can model to the standards on the show, you can model ANYTHING well."

I totally agree with what ElMik wrote.The modelling on TTTE is an excellent standard for all of us. Just turn the sound off and watch sometime.My 2 cents [2c]

In Lewiston Idaho,where they filmed Breakheart pass.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 16, 2006 5:48 PM
I wouldn't admit to running Bachmanns too loud. Anytime someone brings it up the snobs all chime in talking about their Towers 55s and BLIs. I can just picture some folks around here doing the mommie dearest scene down at the hobby shop screaming "NO BACHMANNS, NO BACHMANNS EVER!" and then proceed to beat their kids with the loco.
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Posted by Railphotog on Monday, October 16, 2006 6:39 PM

Well if you think of it, the Thomas the Tank Engine TV series seemes to be aimed at pre-school children.   Most of the material offered for sale is toys.  You tell them at the hobby shop that this is what you are modeling and they don't treat you with respect?    Perhaps if you were to emphasize that you are building with your young son it might make things more clear?

What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene?   Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?  

 

 

Bob Boudreau

CANADA

Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/

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