grayfox1119 wrote:......PROMOTION? That is exactly what the LHS that Mr. B is referring too, and unless I am wrong, it is Maine Trains in Chelmsford, MA on route 4...
That's right, Foxy. You can check out the in-store layout at www.mainetrains.com or look back a couple of issues and see photos in RMC. When I walk into the store and hear engines idling in the back corner of the shop, I walk right over there and feel very, very envious. It's not just a steam issue, by the way. Diesel sound gets me, too.
Here's another issue: How many people simply can't run big steam on their layouts because of minimum curve radius restrictions? I know I've only got so much space for a layout, and I don't have the luxury of being able to use 36-inch radius curves. So, when I get around to doing the dual-era thing on my layout, I'll be looking for shorter engines that can handle 18-inch curves and not look silly going around them.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I am an "old" guy and I love "certain" steam engines. I can see why stocking a lot of it is not the wisest business decision from your perspective. My LHS didn't stock a lot either, but he would order it and that suited me with his pricing. He had lots of all the other stuff I needed, too.
Steam engines, especially as you go up in price, are quite railroad specific and the afficianados are prototypically correct in their desires. That almost insures rather limited local marketability.
Next time someone asks you that, say "I don't. Which one do you want me to order for you?" I hate to say it, but I bet a lot of them want to look at one up close and then go compare your pricing online before they buy one. On an approximately $315 steam engine, my dealer was very competitive with online dealers. I did have to pay sales tax, but no shipping, and it would have been worth $15 to me to have a dealer to handle any issues if they had arisen, but I didn't even have to do that. If you operate like that I wouldn't sweat the complainers, you are always going to have them.
Let me second the Bowser suggestion. A couple of reasons:
1) The kits allow you to build either a 'bare bones' model or, for the price of an upgrade kit, a superdetailed kit. Modularity has its appealing side for both consumer and seller.
2) Bowser has a full range of models - most of the USRA types, plus some semi-Harriman 2-8-0s and 4-6-0s; you can go up in size to the Big Boy, and down to the 0-4-0. USRA models appeal to a range of modelers.
3) There is always a selection of Bowser kits on Ebay, but not in anything like the profusion of Bachmann Spectrum models.
Now that the Roundhouse kits are out of production, Bowser's pretty much it for the easy-to-build, inexpensive diecast kit market.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Hey again, OTM.
If it were fifedog's lhs, I'd stock anything I could that was regional specific. I'm not sure what railroads ran in or around Little Rock, but I'd be sure to school myself and stock my display case accordingly. There's just something about hand's on/up close and personal shopping that on-line can't compare to. Yeah, one might find a better price after hours of sitting in front of the monitor, but shipping & handling and all the other sircharges tend to get forgotten.
Then there is the occasional RR themed convention that comes around. We doodles do branch out on own to locate hobby shops, and if the product is there, we are more likely to buy right there, right then.
And lots not forget the Mommas, Grand-mammas, and wifeepoos who will meander in around the holidays to pick up "one of those cute little choo-choo$"...
Goldmine wrote:Steam is boring! I didnt grow up in that era so it does not please or excite me. now if I was born in the 40's I would have saw alot of steam and would have a different feeling towards it but since I was born in the late 70's I do not KNOW srteam. I do not like cars from the 40's-80's either. Steam for me is just old guy stuff. OOOPs I mean well experienced guy stuff.
Have fun with your trains
I enjoy "modern" steam and pretty much all diesels from the F-units on up. I own several diesels, but only 3 steam locos. The reason I don't own as many steam is because they are generally more expensive than their diesel counterparts. Case in point, I can get a P2K SD-45 for less than $50, but I can't find a Spectrum 2-8-0 for less than about $65 (even on eBay). Also, there seems to be a lot more abundant supply of diesel models on the market than steam models. You can get just about any diesel model from just about every major manufacturer. How many "major" manufacturers have steam models available for a reasonable price? (I can think of 3 off the top of my head that don't have any steam models). And of the manufacturers that offer steam models, how much variety is there in their steam models? Seems like Athearn comes out with a single Genesis model every year. P2K maybe 2 or 3. And these all seem to be in limited runs, so they become impossible to find a couple of years later. Also, steam models have more moving parts, and thus more opportunities for something to go wrong.
Bottom line, the reasons I "hate" steam are: higher average cost as compared to "similar" diesel models, limited availability and variety of models available at any given time, more mechanically complex than diesel models.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Virginian wrote:Good luck selling a lot of Bowser Pennsy style boilers/fireboxes where he is in Arkansas.
Bowser has a few non-PRR engines... though few folks today would build a die-cast USRA 2-8-2 themselves when there are so many RTR DCC and sound versions on the market. There are still some craftsmen (and craftswomen) out there that might. He/she would be rewarded with an engine that could pull the bumper off his/her car.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
A big thanks again to everyone who has responded so far. I've read every post and as usual you have been helpful. Now for some answers to your questions or comments:
Don asked how info from other shops in other regions would be helpful to my shop, and shouldn't I be paying attention to what my own clientele wants. Good point. I do listen to my own customers, of course, but I was just wondering how other shops dealt with this subject. I don't seem to be able to find an acceptable solution here, so I (selfishly?) asked the forum members what other shops stock. Looks like I'm not alone on the stocking steam issue.
Dave V - no need to apologize about not buying locomotives from your LHS to me, anyway. It's economically understandable and you are correct, I hear it all the time. Heard it today as a matter of fact. Maybe I should quit stocking locomotives entirely and focus on the items where I can better compete with the net. Although quite frankly this part of the discussion, were I to give all the facts about my store, would cross the fine line of advertising so I'll stop here. Seems silly to have a train store with no locomotives though.
In fact, this is where Big Rusty pointed out that "you can't sell from an empty wagon".....a very true statement. Here comes that fine line again, but let's assume I don't have an empty wagon. You mentioned that when your generation begins to disappear then that will be it for steam anyway. I respectfully disagree, as I think folks in all age groups will still tell you today that the transition era is the most popular modeling era.
Big Rusty also mentioned that my store was no longer relevant (to him) and it will only get worse. Again I will politely disagree but I'm not here to argue with folks. (although I can or will) There is evidence to support your statement, but there is evidence that tells me things are getting better, not worse.
GearDrivenSteam asked about me considering Broadway as being a high-end priced item. There again knowing your own market determines what you consider to be high-end. Paul nailed it on the head. What is affordable to some is expensive to others, but I guess that's true no matter what state you live in.
jsoderq bought up good points in the perceptions of quality vs. price - always a balancing act.
ctrainzs: just wanted to point out where you mention about the spending you did in your LHS "I realize that 200 bucks was not worth much." While I can't speak for other shops, let me say you should never think that the amount you spend is not worth much. Where would I be without all the 20 dollar sales along with the larger purchases? Out of business. Your LHS is probably, or should be, grateful for every dollar.
Dick: nope, no marketing classes here. This was/is a learn-on-the-job deal.
The layout in the store is a great idea. I sort of have one. It's a long, long story. Perhaps another thread.
Lastly, about Bowser, I did not mean to exclude them from my list. It's true that I am not in the hotbed of PRR activity, but you all would be surprised at what makes up my local business from a road name standpoint. Again, maybe another thread, maybe not - might cross the promotion fine line. More likely I would be concerned with - as we can all see from some posts on this forum - the willingness to put together a steam locomotive kit these days. Never had anyone ask about or order one. But thankfully Bowser still makes them, so they must do well somewhere.
OK my lunch break is over. Thanks again for the replies so far.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I am 25 And the steam era is my favorite!! I love the sights smells and sounds. Nothing against diesel but there isnt a whole lot of curves or anything in the newer locos. They all look cookie cutter to me. The main reason I am building a transional RR is because I love Steam and early diesel's. I am not to worried about the selection of steam in N-scale because sooner or later they are going to catch up with a lot of us n-scalers. HO is still the most prominiant scale to model in, But I feel that N-scale is coming "Full Steam" into the new century!
Just my 2 cents,
Curt
R. T.
I'm not arguing with anything you have said, because I believe that's the negative and all-too-true story of running an LHS in this day and age.
OneTrackMind asked for some suggestions or alternatives to not stocking steam locomotives. I gave him a couple, one of which was stocking those steam locos which might have the best chance of translating into impulse buys. Those who are planning their steam rosters are more likely to order over the Internet than those (like you) who did not have a specific use for a specific steamer, but it still appealed to you. You would not have made that purchase over the Internet, but did when you saw it. It had to be in stock, because you would not have ordered a Bachmann 2-8-0.
A much better suggestion than any of mine was the operating layout, especially where steamers with sound can be demonstrated. That would do a lot to push impulse sales higher, and develop demand for steam.
The high minimum orders and the limited runs will continue to hurt our LHS's. Minimum orders and limited runs, while controlling costs for the manufacturer, also cost the manufacturer sales. Both severely restrict the amount of impulse buying (thereby limiting sales and profits for the industry), which I suspect makes up a bigger portion of our hobby than anybody wants to admit.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Years ago a hobbyshop almost had to keep a large inventory on display. The only way you could decide whether to buy an item was to actually see it and hold it in your hand. The pictures in the magazines were sometimes not enough to determine how detailed a model was or if the paint was right.
With the internet and forums like this you can not only see the model run but if it has sound installed you can hear it run. The reviews will give you a good idea how well detailed a model is and any mistakes that were made on it. That is how I decide if a model is what I want or not. I personaly do not expect any hobbyshop to stock all the latest loco's steam or diesel but if I want one then I expect him to be able or at least willing to try to order one for me. I would rather see an assortment of the basic scenic details and glue, paint, etc than a large display case full of expensive locomotives. But that's just my opinion and like they say everybodys got one! Jim
I have no idea if this would be any help to your particular location or your particular clientele, but both of my LHS out here in the Sacramento/Roseville area carry a fairly large display of 'consignment' steam, both used brass and newer plastic. The cost to the retailer is nil, except for display space, the former owner simply names what he considers a fair price for the locomotive, the retailer charges a 20-30% consignment fee. If the loco doesn't sell within a set amount of time, the hobby-shop owner notifies the owner, and the piece is reclaimed. No investment lost. The prices are reasonable enough for the hobbyist who is looking for good-running steam, and the turnover seems to be quite healthy, from my view. It's also quite often that I am able to find that 'special' loco that I've been looking for, and of course everyone's happy about that--with the exception of my wallet, LOL!
You might want to consider that as an adjunct to stocking pricey steam whose appeal may or may not work in your area.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Mentioned earlier by other posters, but ignored lately is the use of lay away to improve sales. I thought this was a good suggestion, fits nicely with the operating display. Not all of us prefer to use credit, and there are still some that have monthly budgets for model railroading. Just another way to differentiate yourself from the online warehouses.
Hi Fred....thanks for your comments to my thread. I do appreciate all the advice.
It would seem that my predicament with the steam locomotives isn't just my imagination.
Not sure I can post anything about a layaway program. Did you see where Wal-Mart just announced they are getting rid of their Layaway program?
Maybe I can get away with saying I've always had a layaway program, and you are right it is helpful for some customers. Due to recent abuse of my somewhat good nature my policy had to be changed however.
One Track Mind wrote: Hi Fred....thanks for your comments to my thread. I do appreciate all the advice. It would seem that my predicament with the steam locomotives isn't just my imagination. Not sure I can post anything about a layaway program. Did you see where Wal-Mart just announced they are getting rid of their Layaway program? Maybe I can get away with saying I've always had a layaway program, and you are right it is helpful for some customers. Due to recent abuse of my somewhat good nature my policy had to be changed however.
This is a tricky one, to be sure. If I were the customer, and wanted to make the seller comfortable with the process, I would offer a small deposit to be forfeited within, say, 60 days, and to have the item on display. When 60 days are up, another deposit is due, or the item is put up for sale. Eventually, the customer will be in it for more than the seller, by which time the seller has restored his liquidity. But until then, only 60 days passes until another influx of liquidity is due from the buyer. This would have the benefit of keeping your "wide-eyes" display case current and irresistable for those who have any warm blood in them.
I realize this adds to the paper trail that "someone" must keep....
Yeah there is a paper trail to keep up with, but that's just part of my job.
I had a real liberal layaway policy until recently. My new "rigid" layaway policy is still more lenient than a lot of places.
That's about all I'm willing to say about it.
Just off the top of my head, would it be worth holding some clinics over the winter? Either you, or someone who has the time, skill, and experience to hold kit-building clinics to build Bowser or other kits? If you can keep the buyers' costs and comfort level in check by offering clinics where they build their steamers...maybe that would be a step toward their wanting other steamers...?
-Crandell
Goldmine wrote:. Steam for me is just old guy stuff. .
sovirginian wrote:Logic would indicate that the question must come from your clientele so it would seem other LHS's are of little matter.
Logic would indicate that the question must come from your clientele so it would seem other LHS's are of little matter.
Personally, I prefer steam. Early diesels can be seen on the T/C from time to time...
Another suggestion to think about:
One of the LHS I frequent in my travels removes the cover off nearly all closed boxes, places the bottom of the box inside the upside down cover, and covers the now open box with clear plastic wrap. He does this with nearly all cars - both RTR and kits.
As a customer I find this to be a subtle yet quite encouraging way to buy trains. I don't have to feel guilty about taking the cover off to look inside the box - it's all there for me to see. The shop owner doesn't have to worry about customers removing box tops and spilling pieces or causing other damage. I can see with a glance how difficult a kit is, and I can see the roadname and colors to determine if its something I want. Might be applicable to steam locos, too. Now when I walk into a shop that doesn't do this, I find I'm disappointed. And back to feeling guilt about opening boxes.
I'm sure the labor is not trivial. But it just might be worth it. As a customer, I like it, and patronize the place despite everything at MSRP.
PS He also ships for free if my purchase is awkward to take on the plane with me, or the item has to be ordered.
Ok, I have to tell this one story. I've worked in retail a long time for a small book store, and one day I had a lady come in and demand her money back for this book she had purchased. She said she read the first page, and instantly hated it, and wanted her money back right then and there.
Our policy is that never give money back (as posted on signs on our wall), but that we will make a full exchange or even make out a gift certificate for the full amount (good for 7 years by state law) with the receipt. I then asked her if she had the receipt.
She said, "Well, I didn't buy the book here!"
For some reason, the pure chutzpah of this lady stunned me. I eventually replied, "Where did you buy this book?" She said, "Barnes & Noble. Are you going to refund my money?"
My answer was, "Why would I do that?"
She replied, "You could sell it to someone else."
"For how much?", I asked.
"You could sell it for the cover price," she said.
I replied, "And how much do you want?"
"The cover price," she answered.
"I'm sorry, but I can't help you," I said, "Perhaps you should go to Barnes & Noble to get your refund."
She left in a huff, saying "I already tried that!," with her book in hand...while I was still sitting there still stunned. Wow...That's my best "When customers attack!" story.
fwright,While I agree with you about ridiculous minimum order policies hurting local hobby shops, limited runs, IMHO, actually have increased LHS income. With limited runs, everything turns over faster (folks have to buy it now or occasionally miss out), and as you know turn over is the name of the game in retail. Not to mention with limited runs, there's a lot more things to buy, not less. This can help the LHS, provided they know their customers.
Without limited runs, this hobby would be right back where it was 15 years ago. This is the list of loco manufacturers from the 1991 Walthers Catalog:AthearnAtlasBachmann (2 Spectrum Locos, 70ton & K-4)BowserEnglish's Model RRGrandt LineIHCKeystone Loco WorksLife-Like (1 P2K loco, BL-2)MantuaMaster CreationsMDC/RoundhouseModel PowerRivarossiStewartWalthers
Anybody want to go back to those days?
Paul A. Cutler III*************Weather Or No Go New Haven*************
Since you can't do business from your empty steam engine wagon, you can rely on a long time business strategy called incremental profits.
Incremental profits, are those net over cost dollars that you will not earn in your regular endeavors. Every dollar of incremental profit falls right down to the bottom line. Because you are not getting ANY profit from what you don't sell you are missing out on the incremental profit from those that you could sell.
Post a sign that says:
WE WELCOME YOUR BUSINESS!
Since there are so many varieties of steam engines
offered for sale at various times we can't be expected
to have your favorite on hand.
BUT WE WILL ORDER IT FOR YOU!
For any locomotive that we do not have in stock
we will grant you a 20 percent discount on any that
we special order for you.
All orders cash or credit card paid with order.
NO REFUNDS ALLOWED!
You do the math. If you only have incremental profits of $20.00 a week, at least you will have over a thousand dollars more than you have doing business the way you always have been. I think you could do a lot better than that, and the bonus is that they also buy other items from at your regular prices.
I am sure you are already discounting old inventory. If you are not, DO IT NOW and get some cash to enable obtaining new inventory of items that do sell.
I have over thirty years of sole proprietorship retailing in my checkered past. I know this works, because I have used it to great success.