Gentlemen:
In a world of variables - car weights - rolling friction - various radii and intangibles - there are several certainties when our running our trains:
Engine Traction must offset what is to be pulled (Drag). 'Number of cars' is replaced by amount of weight to be pulled (Drag). Friction and incline increase 'drag'. To have an AMMETER is to be informed.
(a)Adding weight will add traction but can burn out the motor. (b) Use an Ammeter.
Power supply output is finite, and limited by the Transformer. Oversimplification: Today, a 18VA supply will put out 1.5 amps @ 12 volts or 7.2 volts @ 2.5 amps (both total 15VA). A 12 VA supply puts out 1 amp at 12 volts and less than 5v @ 2.5 a. Wonder why speed drops as you add engines? Don't, plus HD transformers are expensive. Chances are your power pak is somewhere between these numbers.
Voltage provides Intensity). An electric motor runns faster on 24v than 12. Amps are what do the work.
"My old Tech IIs can handle 5 old BB units." - and my old Volkswagen 'Beetle' could go 90 MPH (downhill).
Except -
Power supply is not finite, or constant. It will only put out as many amps as required at any given voltage, up to the rated maximum.
I don't know about 5 old BB units, because I only ever owned four powered ones, but I know I have owned 3 Tech II 2400s (before one started to die) that would handle the four BBs and a couple of other engines.
The fastest I ever saw one of those old VWs go was 70. The one I was in only went about 30 down that hill, but it wasn't rolling on it's wheels. Still made it to school with no windows and only one door that would open.
Ok, more power and the MRC 2500 is dying. What about this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKPOWER-VARIABLE-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-0-18-VOLTS-0-3-AMPS_W0QQitemZ250022485259QQihZ015QQcategoryZ48708QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Sort of kidding about that power supply, but if it would work? I all most bought one for my slot car track and would have if I had not went the way of the rail. They have a 10 amp for around $120.00.
Maybe the MRC 2500 is heading south. What is the life of a thottle? I run the train every day from a short day 2 hours and long day 6 to 8 hours.
One thing I should throw in and maybe the under laying problem. I have very few power taps (feeders) at this point plus only a few turns are solder. Main line B that is around 100 feet only has 7 and A only 4.
As far as a old bug VW. Hum that was my first car. Dad did not want me to grow up a gear head like him. You be amazed what can be done to them.
1963 VW 40 HP Threw in a 67 block, EMPI stroker crank with needle bearin mains, 92 MM barrels and pistons, 67 302 Z-28 rods, 73 Duale port heads, sodium filled 39MM and 40 MM vales, dual 40 Webbers carbs, Bosh Mag, TRW cam (cannot rember specks) Fits racing clutch, Weber lighten Flywheel, close ratio 3rd and 4th gears and Hurst shifter.
My claim to fame was the day I beat the rival towns Quater Back in a drag races. He had a 67 GTO Tri Power 4- Speed with 4.10 like gears. He lite the hides while laughing at me, before he got moving I had him by 4 cars and pulling like heck shifting at 6500 RPM. Was a soild 13.4 car. In fact how Dad let me have the 68 Road Runner I still have, so I would not kill my self.
As far as making stuff work that won't? Pulling 43 cars behind the Erie Bulits. Couplers on the Eries are horn hooks, first car, horn hooks, second car lead is horn hook then Kadee for the next 25 cars then 16 more horn hook's. I am changing them all but fun getting something that is junk working well.
It keeps going and going, around 160 hours with no derails, this is fun again Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
That power supply ought to do it ! I do not think it's a number of feeders problem. I had my last layout down to one feeder on an 80' loop before I broke down and completely dismantled it and it still worked all right. Not recommending that just stating a fact.
That QB obviously didn't know how to drive. My '66 Goat ate RRs, admitedly non-hemi ones, for breakfast. 107MPH in 13.12 at Richmond. With a 3.55 rear and the wide-ratio 4 speed.
A friend got a '65 (I think I remember right - it has been 40 years) Belvedere w/ the Hemi, and he was a bit disappointed in it stock, but man when we got through with it, it was awe inspiring.
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Don,I realy don't care if you believe that or not..Know one thing.I have no reason to come on this or any other forum and lie.My Tech II can and will handle 5 BB units..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I added weight to my SD 45 to bring it up to a scale weight of a prototypical.
How well did it work you ask? I was never able to try it as the layout collapsed when I placed the loco on the track!
I have a Digitrax Power Supply that is adequate amperage no worries there. I can feed several boosters. One is 8 Amp and the other two planned will be 5 amps each.
Regarding the GTO driver, I think he does not know how to drive. He sat burning rubber too long on the line. I dont do hard launches but am a top end driver. I did once beat a stock Ford Mustand GT (1990 model) with a 93' Freightliner COE Tractor with the 470 detroit on a rockwell 9 without a trailer off the stoplight on a certain divided highway on the east coast. I had him off the line, held him off until I hit high end and got im until 110 or so.
I did incur damage on the power train taking off on torque in high range but it was worth the shop foreman's verbal abuse in his office. =)
Barkie, I think my main problem is the BB's are old and worn out. New style motor helped, before with the old ones it would just down with 1. Plus for what ever the reason the 12 wheelers just seem slower. I know the 2500 I have now would run 5 Super weights if I had that many.
On the 13.2 with 3.55's. Hum I smell some super tuning in thoses numbers. Main reason I BBQ the Goat (smells nasty while cooking them but taste OK) was the QB was to busy laughing at me and the VW which was painted Plum Cray. It was a county road Drag Races where you run what you brung. He was beating every thing that was trying, Z's, Mach 1's SS and what ever. So I gave it a try, car was new to the street seen and no one knew what it could do. All he saw was a funny looking little car that idle funny. He knew how to drive, just not think he needed to. Well as we booth know if you have a qucker 60 foot time good chances you will will. With a Bug with all the weight over the drive wheels thay are tuff to beat anyway, throw in a burn out and you have smoked Goat.
Any other seconds on the power supply I listed? All so what about a MRC 6200 at 35 VA.
45 cars now and it still keeps going and going and going.
Ken
Ken,This may not be a acceptable answer but,my thoughts would be to repower those units with the newer Athearn motor.On the other hand buying a MRC CM20 could be a better answer as well and cost less then repowering.
About that 6200..I had to look up the details..Yes that would work and be less then the CM20.Both the CM20 and 6200 has a mode switch for HO and N so you are good to go since the 6200 like the CM20 can be used for all scales except for Lionel and other like brands that uses AC power.
Ken,
One issue that hasn't been raised is lubrication. If the locos still have a nice flywheel effect and coast well, then they're probably not dry. But dry motor, worm, or axle bearings or gearing will increase friction & current draw. I use Archer (Radio Shack) Teflon Lube Gel on the gearing. I swear by the stuff. I think it's Super Lube in a thickened form. Labelle sells a teflon grease as well, but at RS you get a large 3 0z. tube for about 3 bucks. If I buy an old Rivarossi steamer, for example, I strip out all of the old grease and replace it with this stuff and teflon oil. The old Berkshires and articulateds had a high pitch set of worms, so when I'm done I can disconnect the motor shaft and have the wheels drive the gearing. It's that slick.
Another issue is too much lubrication, or oil in the motor brushes. It turns to tar on the commutator. In your photo the commutator looks nice & polished, so I doubt it's an issue, but when it is I just drop the brushes in Gumout or a similar solvent for a while, then let them dry. Pulls the oil right out of them.
Just a few thoughts. Oh, and as far as the VW topic is concerned, this guy has all of you beat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czNQlusss0
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Virginian wrote: <snip> Therefore, my point is, that if cuda is running locos and they are just crawling as he adds a load, I think there is a very good chance something is wrong. I would definitely get an ammeter and see what the heck is going on. <snip>
<snip>
Therefore, my point is, that if cuda is running locos and they are just crawling as he adds a load, I think there is a very good chance something is wrong. I would definitely get an ammeter and see what the heck is going on.
The issue sounds suspiciously like inadequate feeder and bus wires between the track and the power supply.
Way back when I was in college, the club layout had telephone wire (of all things !!) for the track wiring, no bus. Single or Double headed Mantua steam would stall on a grade with a heavy train, at full power (15V), drawing 1.5 amps; which indicated that the resistance in the wiring was the current limiter of the system.
Nfmisso, I as well think that is a factor. Now have 52 VA with a MRC 2600 and old Bues run much better but I know there are other factors that are coming to play.
First is the old Blues are running there stock Steel wheels, nickel ones should help a lot. Bus wires? Guessing they are the wires that go to the track. Some are only 26 gauge. Terminal strip for the feeders are not in the center of the board, some bus wires have a 15 to 20 foot run. Finaly what is propley hurting the most is the way the thottle is wired. Have the MRC 2600 sitting on the desk, then a wire to the celing then 3 foot and then down to the power strips that power the feeders. That is a 20 foot run and only 26 gauge.
I know better but never thought I would get this far into the hobby. Worst part is being a Audiophile, I know the power drop that small wires can cause. My stereo jumpers wires are gold plated pins and silver wires. Speakers wires are Monster Cable at 5 gauge. Yes, you can beat someone to death with them.
When I bulid the new bench, these short comings will be taken care of.
More power has helped, still need a lot of thottle, I am at 80% and running doulded headed SPD's on the B line and a Super weight on the A line. Running a round 50 sMPH, crank it to 100% and they cook at around 85 sMPH.
Oh, the weighted SPD has power to the point it can spin the wheels, I did drop the train to 40 cars but doubled head they would pull 50 cars. At 50 the led engine was spinng the wheels. Why kill the old engine.
Cuda Ken