Larger Engines than Big Boys

[Anonymous]

hmmm...you could try three wheelsets, with a joint at the middle over the center truck. I also got inspiration by watching "super semis" at a truck and tractor pull. If that kind of power (4000hp out of a semi truck V-8, four could make 16000hp!) could be put to the rails, I wonder what would happen......

[Anonymous]

You took the thought right out of my head. I was thinking about making a diesel engine larger than that but I chose against it because it is so large that I don't think I could make it fit the curves on my layout...

[Anonymous]

Try www.uprr.com. You can see photos fron the Union Pacific Railroad Collection, from Big Boys to Centennials. Hey now! Thats an idea! Why not a diesel bigger than a Centennial!

cu later
James

[Anonymous]

Jessica,
Thanx for the info. I was bewildered about any sites that contained photos of any engine other than diesel. Thanx alot.
Kenneth

[Anonymous]

All this talk and no links? ::sigh::

Here's some helpful info, Ken.

We'll start with the Whyte System of Classification of Locomotives site:
http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/whytesys.html
Good info here on the different wheel configurations and their histories.

For more info on articulated steam locomotives, including some of the experimental monsters, try here:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/

'Course, seeing some photos of these beasts would be nice, and for that, you will want to head here:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam5.html
You'll be happy to know that they even have photos of the 2-8-8-8-2 and 2-10-10-2 at the above site.

More fun articulated photos can be found here:
http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rr3.html#articuls

As a final note, from what I've seen the biggest problem with the 2-8-8-8-2 used by both Eire and Viginian wasn't steam loss; rather, it was the inability of the firemen to keep up with the constant need for fuel.

Hope this all helps!

-- Jessica

[Anonymous]

The aforementioned DCP1 may also be referred to as the MP1. I cant decide Which to name.

[Anonymous]

'Yall are right. My DCP1 (Read my other posts) is gettin' into it's begenning stages, and the Hazzard and Southern/McHenry Railway Museum layout may not be appealing to another modeler. Go 4 it! just one suggestion.....Run Coal trains with (and for!) this thing!

[Anonymous]

A) try a Garrat sush as a 4-10-2+2-10-4
B) try multiple boilers for any engine larger than a Triplex
C) Juan meant you had the most messages

[Anonymous]

well, that's not nearly as powerful as a 10,000 horsepower NHRA top fuel dragster. Sure, it cant pull much, but can the PRR Q2 do the quarter mile in 4.50 seconds @ 320 mph?

[Anonymous]

What ever you decide to make your engine, try buying some 1/24 scale auto racing turbochargers; you'd need 'em to produce draught on a prototype 4-10-10-4

[Anonymous]

Ken,
I get hasseled too. ALOT. Whatever you do Don't take this.

J.D. McHenry
Washington Community High School

[Anonymous]

Big Boys have 66in or so drivers which would be appropiate for your model.

[Anonymous]

How 'bout "Power Plant"? However, Officialy it will still be a "Mallet" though.

[Anonymous]

Great idea---If you haul a lot of coal. I also am designing a locomotive, A passenger diesel known as the DaimlerChrysler MP1. I'm thinking of using an SD40-2 frame for it. You might want to start with a Virginian 2-10-10-2.

[Anonymous]

Hey Kenneth, You cought most of my point and I was just trying to get them off your back. The guys who know all the stats. on all the different engines and everyone else I'm sure are having fun in this hobby, as did I triing to dig and remember were I saw those articles for you. But we all have to realize that just because one guy models nothing but the B & O in 1943 doesn't mean it's not fun for him. And what you are doing may not be fun for the next guy. I'm not real big on thomas the tank engine stuff, but if it's gonna get my 6 yr old interested in the hobby, it doesn't matter to him what I think. He just wants to see thomas go around and around. Know one should criticise because thats not what thay like. Let the B&O guy and the CN guy and the rest of them in cluding your self do what yuo want to. FUN IS WHAT IT IS ABOUT, no matter how it is done AS LONG AS YOU LIKE IT . That is what this hobby is about. Have fun James

[Anonymous]

thanks James. I really think people now-a-days have actually stop having fun and just build to exact replecation. Some people are too perfect when it comes to modeling. I think the people that build the model layouts have lost the fun and do it just to see how perfect they can get it. That is why I have decided to build this engine along with my new layout. I lost the true meanig of model railroading and was making everything to look like the original thing. That isn't what it is about, it is about having fun while you use your own creativity. Many people recreate old railroads, I think that's cool, but they don't have fun doing it.

[Anonymous]

Raysaron(?),

I can get over the scrolling. It would be nice to have a 'next message/previous message' button sometimes.

The thing I would like is not having to go outside the message area after I log in and walk back in three steps to get where I was when I requested to log in.

All in all, it is no big deal to me. - Ed

[Anonymous]

Kenneth, somewere in this long column you asked about detailing and drivers and such. Model Railroader mag. ran a series for about 6 or 7 months starting in Oct. 1997. It was on scratch building a brass engine and might help yoou out on some of the things you might be wanting to know to make this monster work. Any large / regional public library in your area should have about 5 years worth of back issues in it to find the info. GOOD LUCK on your project and I really wi***hat these guys who are BEATING you up about this engine would remember that this hobby is fun for the individuals out there weather you are running trains on a 4 by 6 layout like myself or a 40 by 60ft layout. Shut up guys and let Kenneth have his fun the way HE wants to. Build what YOU like to build and ENJOY.

[raysaron]

longest thread (series of replies, 24)

(does anyone else wi***hat all repies were
available with one click? I would scroll down
the screen for 24 replies, but I won't click
and wait 24 times and not be able to see
related replies on the same screen, IMHO)

[Anonymous]

Hey, everyone thanks for the info. I think I'll try everyones ideas, and I'll have photos of it when I'm finished. Can anyone tell me where I can get photos and info. about locomotives? I think I'll do some research into the triplexes and that may be my next goal. Make an engine that is larger than a triplex. By the way, what did Jose mean aout having the longest tread in the forum?

[RedLeader]

Yes greg, your'e right about the turbines, but they were still steam engines. Just like diesels, although their main diesel engines are for providing power to their electric motors, their still diesels. Only a few turbines were trully steam driven. eg: PRR 6-8-6.

You're also VERY right about the articulated triplex, sort of lapsus while writing the ideas.
But still, there were heavier and more porwerful engines than the big boy. For example: C&O H-8 class 2-6-6-6 had a weight of 778,000 while the big boy was 772,250. In power, there were several above the big boy (6.200hp@40mph), like PRR Q-2 4-4-6-4 7,987hp@57.4mph; C&O H-8 class 2-6-6-6 7,500hp@40MPH; WM M-2 class 4-6-6-4 6,345hp50MPH, and well, the turbines(m-1 and JH) that were much more heavier but no very powerfull.

About the triplex, virginian 2-8-8-8-4 had a pulling force of 166,300 and the erie 2-8-8-8-2 had one of 160,000 while the big boy had a pulling force 135,375.

And finally, congratulations to Kenn by having the longest thread in the forum!

[Anonymous]

Kenneth,
There are a few things that I can suggest for your project. Pick or build a reliable drive or drives and flatten some of the flanges on the drivers (Is this still called a blind driver?), this may help with curves or turnouts. Articulation would be a help too. One last thing, it's your world, do what makes you happy.

Dave

[Anonymous]

There was a machine called the Allegheny type which I think was a 4-6-6-6 which some believe was actually more powerfull and heavier than the Big Boy. Trains ran an article on it a few years back and said the weight was questionable because the C&O didn't want to pay the engineers what it was really worth to operate the machine. I have seen pictures of it and I think it looks better than the 4-8-8-4. The article explains that the maker said it was lighter than it actually was and if the truth be known....well you get the hint.

[Anonymous]

So the Big Boy may not have been the largest in length but it was the largest in wieght and power. Therefore I say it was and is the largest steam engine that was ever created...

[thirdrail1]

The Virginian triplex 2-8-8-8-4 and the three Erie triplexes 2-8-8-8-2 WERE most certainly articulated! Otherwise they could not negotiate any curve whatsoever. Although they had more wheels that a Big Boy, they were smaller engines in both weight and power.

Both the N&W "Jawn Henry" and the three C&O turbines were steam turbine ELECTRICS, using the turbine to generate electricity for the traction motors, just like a Diesel-electric. While they weighed more than a Big Boy, they were less powerful.

PRR's "Big Engine" S-1 No. 6100, a 6-4-4-6 might have been longer than a Big Boy, but it was still a much smaller engine in both power and weight.

No one in Germany or Russia built anything approaching the size of the Big Boy. See my earlier post about the Soviet 4-14-4.

[Anonymous]

Jose,
Thanks for the info. I was only aware that the Big Boy was the largest. I figured that they had larger ones that didn't run well but I just discarded them as nothing since they didn't run. I think I'll create even larger engines once I fini***his one. Again thanks for the tips.

[Anonymous]

Kenneth,

I'm sorry that some fellows don't respect your point of view here. Myself, I like to model the mundane, every day stuff. I think that if you like to build unusual/unique stuff, that's great. After reading some of these posts, I would paint it for a narrow guage lumber railroad and post a picture of it here on the site (ROTFL). Have fun. Good Luck. - Ed

[RedLeader]

Hello Kenn.

To answer you question, yes, there were larger engines than the Big Boy (UP 4-8-8-4). Actually the big boy wasn't the heaviest, nor the most powerfull. There were a lot of "experimental engines" that were much bigger, and a few that actually operated with relativelay succes.

For example Virginan had 2-10-10-10-2 and 2-8-8-8-4 known as triplex engines. Eire also had engines of these type. These engines were non-articulated, and the last set of drive wheels were mounted under the tender, that made part of the engines body. The sice of the Big Boy is measured with her tender, but if you take the tender away (about 50ft) these engines were much larger. The problem with these engines beside the radii, was the suply of steam power. These type of engine required an enormous boiler to suply enough steam to run the drivers. Larger engine were designed, but the problem was never solved, so they were discarded. To solve the problem, engineers adapted the steam turbine technology of ships and power stations. These type of engines used high pressure steam for power. The problem was that they couldn't go in reverse, so double boilers had to built in one engine for such purpose. The largerst steam engine, which was a turbine, was the Jawn Henry class c+c+c+c of N&W and the M-1 class 4-8-0-4-8-4 of C&O. One was 161ft and the other 154ft, while the BigBoy was 132ft long (with the centipede tender). The M-1, was also the heaviest steam engine ever built.

The steam turbines weren't very succesful, but they did service in the mentioned railroads and were fully operational while in service. Both the jawn Henry and the M-1 looked alike, and didn't look at all as the conventional steam engines, thowgh, some turbines did look very much alike conventional steams.

As for conventional reciprocating steam engines, PRR's S-1 class 6-4-4-6 was a bit larger, by 6ft i think.

I know that the soviet union and germany actually built even larger engines, but again, not very succesful.

The myth of the Big Boy being the largest engine, may be, because is true that she was the largest succesful engine. But, if and engine runned, it existed, and therefore, you can't count them away. Just like Hughe's Sproose Goose, which was the largest airplaine for many years, and the only time she flew, was for 300ft, but she did flew!

Pardon my English I'm from Colombia :)

RL

[Anonymous]

Good name! Also "Oh Boy" would be an eye opener. Again I think this is great. GOOOOOOOOOOOD luck!

[Anonymous]

Ben,
Man I thought you were one of the kids that use to hassle me about new ideas at my old school. Why didn't you just tell me it was you.