Larger Engines than Big Boys

[ckape]

It's a shame nobody makes four-axle streerable truck sideframes. [:)]

[cjcrescent]

cefinkjr

"right beside the left-handed Shay I once saw (or would that be a yahS?)"

Don't laugh, this one was for real. There was a 2 cylinder "yahs" built for a small mexican narrow gauge railway, back before shays even had cabs on them. I can't remember when it was actually built but I believe it had to do with clearances on one of the lines it was assigned to. There was a picture of the prototype in an old Model Railroader from around 1968, with a letter from Roy Keeley to the effect that it was one of a couple ever built with the cylinders on the "wrong" side. I knew this gentleman personally while he was living in Mobile, Al. and shays were by far his favorite loco. He got a big kick out of this "yahs". I think he had a pic of every shay made by the original company.

[RedLeader]

Here's are some real monsters!! [:o] Model one of these... they'll be an interesting addition to any layout (if you have a table long enough)

Erie's "multiplex" 2-4-6-8-10-12 ... again, how many wheels?
[image]http://sbiii.com/bwrkapix/24681012.jpg[/image]

PRR's Zoo Class 4-14-6
[image]http://sbiii.com/bwrkapix/prrdoplg.jpg[/image]


The legendary DDP45!
[image]http://home.att.net/~iii1/mrrpix/ddp45ho1.jpg[/image]

... Up has always been the road for large engines... The mythical DDDDP45
[image]http://sbiii.com/mrrpix/ddddp45.jpg[/image]

Speaking about large engines... ATFS's TDP-45
[image]http://sbiii.com/mrrpix/tdp-45.jpg[/image]

[cefinkjr]

And I always thought my idea for an SD30 was a bit outlandish!! I guess I'd have to enter it in the Subtle Spoofs contest section --- right beside the left-handed Shay I once saw (or would that be a yahS?).

[twhite]

VSmith: Oh, God, here we go again! can anyone here top that one? I mean, for sheer hilarity?

[vsmith]

For the absolute largest you have to go for the legendary "Big Joe" built in Russia during the height of the cold war...

It’s a Little Known Fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the atomic powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-4 + 4-12-12-4 monster engine built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Intended for the Moscow to Vladivostok Trans-Siberian run. The idea was to eliminate the need to stop for water or fuel so the train would run non-stop pulling trains up to ten-miles long.

The "Big Joe's" were apparently quite Amazing sight to behold. Imagine the largest articulated locomotive you've ever seen. A 4-12-12-4 in a cab-forward designation. The forward cab was 2 levels and looked more like a jet plane than a steam loco. Now take a second section 4-12-12-4 articulated with a secondary crew cab dormitory at the rear. Now imagine, straddling between these two monsters, pivoted mid-way on the articulated portions like a large square steel boiler section of a Bayers-Garret, looking much like a huge transformer, the Reactor Core, whose nuclear heart was the boilers heating source. To feed these steam monsters 3 huge water tenders trailing behind.

Once completed, it was rolled out of the train shed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too heavy for any bridge, too big to go through any tunnels and far too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner weight, the heat of its atomic heart burning thru the icy soil to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarrassment from reaching Western ears, the base was converted to a reindeer farm, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to their great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...

Stalin died soon after, some say the night he received word of the loss, and rumor has it, is buried with the only surviving photograph of the Big Joe in his coat pocket…

A recreation based on Grandpa Gorky's description...
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Big%20Joe%20Model%20.pdf

[lonewoof]

Jan '61 Trains has an article on Soviet steam power, which has a couple of interesting paragraphs about the 4-14-4 (also a drawing of it).

[Anonymous]

I know nobody has posted here fer a while but on the subject check this guy out. Hes got some great stuff, as long as you arent to protopickickal [bow]

[Anonymous]

The 2-6-6-6 Allegheny weighed more than a Big Boy, it was also a tad more powerful. But the N&W's Y6b 2-8-8-2's were the most powerful.

[ckape]

I guess I just don't dream ambitious enough, I was thinking DD60MAC based on two GP60MACs, with just two DD trucks and no articulation.

[Anonymous]

The January 1973 issue of Model Railroader has 2 pictures on page 43 of a 6-12-12-4 in H0-scale. It looks like at stretched UP Big Boy - and is crafted entirely i 18 karat gold!
MR tells nothing about how it runs but it looks impressive.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Try www.uprr.com. You can see photos fron the Union Pacific Railroad Collection, from Big Boys to Centennials. Hey now! Thats an idea! Why not a diesel bigger than a Centennial!

cu later
James

I had that idea too [:)]

A DD90MAC, with 2 SD90's, articulated at the joint with a 4-axle truck on the center.

[twhite]

Actually, if you want to delve into just sheer tractive power, the DM&IR Yellowstones had about 12,000lbs more TE that they could call upon than Big Boy, and both the WP and N&W 2-8-8-2's could equal Big Boy's TE, if not it's horsepower at speed. But these locos were built for entirely different types of service. So if it's sheer TE you're interested in, Big Boy isn't first. But for horsepower at speed (which I understand rarely happened in the territory that Big Boy was assigned to, at least at first), then Big Boy WAS the largest. But remember, UP's transcontinental route across Wyoming and Utah also has the easiest crossing of the Rocky Mountains (a depression, not a pass) of all the transcontinentals. So Big Boy (and the UP Challengers, for that matter) was built for SPEED, not necessarily to climb steep grades. Something the Rio Grande found out during WWII when the War Board assigned them UP Challenger clones instead of letting them order more of their own more powerful L-105 4-6-6-4's. The UP clones just couldn't handle the Rio Grande grades, because they weren't designed for them. So really, the whole BIGGEST steam loco controversy is somewhat moot. It's how well the steamer worked on what it was assigned to do, that makes the point. And for the UP, Big Boy was the answer--at least temporarily.

[GDRMCo]

I have plans to build a 0-10-10-0 which I call the Highlander. Its a locomotive built during the diesel revolution and using data gathered from the diesels it hs no lead and trailing trucks so all its weight is on its wheels so it has a very high TE and the drivers are low as in 58in so the boiler can be made larger fo higher TE.

[Anonymous]

Well if you want true realism, give up. You dont stand a chance at 100% perfection anyway. Our curves are to tight, our towns are to close together and the sky has a ceiling. Build It! Hobbies are fun and thats the point. Think of J. Lionel Cowen first train it was a cigar box.
I was thinking of doing a bullet train since I use modern equipment. About 7000 HP should do it!

[vsmith]

Just a little info on the Soviet 4-14-4, an earlier post stated that it failed because they could not find stations large enough. Thats not what I found, it failed becuase the shear lenth of the frame and wheelset -14 non articulated drivers- had an annoying habit of trying to straighten out every curve it met!
BOO to you rivet counters, let the kid have his fun. " IT DOESN'T EXIST! SO YOU CAN'T MODEL IT"...BOOO!!! ever hear of a PROTOTYPE? If the kid is running his own design on his own named RR, Shut up! It happened all the time in reality, if the design was a success it started showing up on other lines. If it failed, it was scrapped and soon forgotten. So let the kid experiment, if he wants to built a 4-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-4 SuperDuperBigBadBoy that 3 feet long, and he has the huevos to try, GO FOR IT!

I was at a model airplane show once upon a time and saw two guys almost go to blows arguing over whos F4 phantom detailing was more perfect true to life. I stopped worrying about rivet counting after that.

[Anonymous]

more power to you. to hell with the pureists. build what you want!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

If you want something bigger than a Centennial, get a Big Blow gas Turbine. Highest HP single locomotives UP ever used,at 8500HP. The smaller 5,000HP units were actually recycled into the U50B.

[Anonymous]

I personally think the Big Boy is big enough. Every time my family and I go up to Cheyenne I can not believe the size of it. However, I have an idea for a unique train design that I think would bother many people, and at the same time revolutionize railroading as we know it. I would like to take a large steam engine such as the Big Boy and restore it with some modern technologies added; with fully computerized steam capabilities using high efficient fuels to create the power and steam. Fuels such as propane, jet fuel, natural gas, methanol, etc. Nevertheless good luck with your design.

[Anonymous]

Hi Kenneth
since you watn to build a model of such a huge steamer you must have a good source for drawings of prototype steam engines. I'm currently thinking of building a Big Boy in G-Scale (!!!). Do you have any hints where I could get some good drawings ??
Thanks for your help.

[Anonymous]

James,
I would love to see that done. Gods speed to ya.

[Anonymous]

Try and beat this! 2 Challenger (UP 4-6-6-4) frames back to back, with a boiler straddled between them! I call this monstrosity "Charger", referring to the fact that the Dodge Charger was a larger musclecar than it's stablemate, the Challenger.

[Anonymous]

Kenneth,
After much debate I have decided to tell you good luck, and sorry I harrassed you so much before you moved. I like the idea of this new engine, but don't tell anyone I said this!!!

[Anonymous]

I know it's a wierd one, being metric, but have you looked at "uncommon steam locomotives" at

http://www.skyrocket.de/locomotive/

I came across it the other night and it has some limited info and pics. It ought to get you thinking since it has some of the units mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Have fun being creative!

[Anonymous]

Ohhhhh.....I see. So one of them's mad at you, and one of them is just jokin'. I get it now.

[Anonymous]

James,
That all depends on which Ben your talking about. The one that was answering is my friend and he was just joking with me. The other one thought he was the lord of the trains and was always telling me stuff wouldn't work. The only reason he did that was because I showed him up in a meeting when he said that there was no engine that was large as a 4-8-8-4. That was when I had first say the big boy and thought I'd test his knowledge. I pulled out the picture and he was furious. So no, ben doesn't bother me.
thanx

[Anonymous]

I agree with Ed...Trains.com, are you reading this?

[Anonymous]

I know this ain't a pro help forum but I couldn't help asking, does this Ben kid bug you alot?

[Anonymous]

YEEEEAAAAAH! Post a picture pleeeeeeeeeeze!