Joe Hohmann wrote:I'm a "O" Hi-Railer, and saw this running slowly, double-headed, at the NMRA show. I was impressed! I don't own any MTH engines, but I have a fair ammt. of MTH rolling stock. I think this will have a number of "O" people thinking about a "second layout". Joe
That's where I'm at, Joe......expanding into HO as it offers more of the features I've grown used to in O. I've done a lot of HO repair work and am impressed with some of the engines....Rivarossi, Bachmann, etc. I just cleaned and lubed a Bachmann SF 2-10-4 with "sounds" and "smoke" (so to speak) that is one nice looking engine. The addition of off-the-shelf synchronized smoke and a full sounds package like O-gauge types have grown used to is huge for HO. As far as the power pack, if/when I make the leap I'll just get whatever is needed to make it work........not going to get my undies in a bunch over a freaking transformer!!!
Cheers,
Mike
I just went to the LHS down the street for lunch, and the owner ran two of them up and down the test track for me. They are actually quite impressive, but a K4?? He said they are moving out the door fairly quickly. They looked really neat double headed. I am actually kind of anxious to see what they do next.
I took advantage of the trip and did place my order for a an ABA set of Precision Craft Daylight PAs. That I am truly looking forward to!!
ADDENDUM:
"MRC's Tech-4 260 (published) spec's: 23 volts and 1.8 amps' - but not at the same time." - DG.
That would be 41.4 VA. (Try half of that): 11.5 V @ 1.8 Amps = 20 VA. - unless you believe everything sellers tell you..
If I had a model #260 I'd measure it for you.
I had an old 'top-of-the-line MRC with twin meters. As soon as I hit 5 amps the Voltage dropped to 3.5V. full output. - and that's a Superior product!
The number of people converting to HO scale from O tinplate because of MTH don't amount to a measureable sample compared to those who are in HO scale period. Too late to the game with a nonstandard system and a too late to the game engine. The comments from O tinplate people in general (not the quoted post) give every indication even they have no concept of the differences. We don't use transformers and have two rails as a start both of which have nearly 70 years of standardization and recomended practices. We aren't in an either or situation like tinplaters. We have possibly twenty suppliers of engines, 30-40 of cars, levels of detail from none to museum quality and four or five excellent and cross comatible DCC systems. MTH is almost none of the above.
MidlandPacific wrote:Well, let's not forget that an MRC Power Command 9500, which is a better-than-average but still not out-of-sight power pack can deliver 20 volts of DC - ....
NO!
The MRC 9500 is probably the 'best' one out there .. but let's look at it's (published) specs:
"23 volts / 2.3 amps/ and 20VA." Notice it doesn't say 23V @ 2.3 Amps. (That would be 53 VA).
2. It's an 'unregulated supply. Under no load (doing no work) it may read 23 volts, but this isnt the REAL world. The specification the FTC insists on is 'VA' -Volt Amperes - formerly called 'Watts'.
Amperage is the power rating or claimed work a product can do in order to get offical UL approval.
Voltage can, and does, fluctuate. House current across the US can be 110V - 120V, and is regulated, but can be as low as 90V in some locations during peak times (+/- 15%).
Now back to the 9500: UL's 20 VA divided by 2.3 Amps = 13 volts.
My guess is the DC voltage drops to 12.8V under load until 2.3 amps are reached then the voltage goes lower or until the circuit breaker kicks in. Measuring would confirm or disprove this. Nice thing about meters - they provide information to those that want it. Sadly, too few of today's modelers buy 9500's. Some Athearn BB engines take .75 amps to run and 2 V. to start.
ndbprr wrote: Too late to the game with a nonstandard system and a too late to the game engine. The comments from O tinplate people in general (not the quoted post) give every indication even they have no concept of the differences.
Too late to the game with a nonstandard system and a too late to the game engine. The comments from O tinplate people in general (not the quoted post) give every indication even they have no concept of the differences.
Too late to the game with what nonstandard system? The locomotive in question will operate just fine under DCC or DC control (voltage issues aside). As far as it being a K4, I'm sure this isn't the last K4 you will see produced. Didn't BLI just pop one of these out a while back (you know, the company that can do no wrong)? As far as your opinions about O scale folks, keep in mind there are many of us who run in more than one scale, and no matter how important HO modelers would like to think their scale is, the fact remains there's a great big world outside of 1:87 and many people understand much more than you give them credit for...
We don't use transformers and have two rails as a start both of which have nearly 70 years of standardization and recomended practices. We aren't in an either or situation like tinplaters.
Huh? I guess I'm glad I'm not a tinplater (because I have no idea how these sentences were to impact me if I were)
We have possibly twenty suppliers of engines, 30-40 of cars, levels of detail from none to museum quality and four or five excellent and cross comatible DCC systems. MTH is almost none of the above.
You obviously have no real understanding of 1:48 scale, or how many manufactures are producing products within it. The fact is the O scale market is huge, and there are literally hundreds of manufacturers making products in the same ranges of quality you mentioned in HO. MTH is simply another manufacturer coming to the HO scale market with a cool new product. Forget about the lawsuits nobody really understands, forget about the "other" command system you think is being shoved down your throat, and just accept the model for what it is. Another product from a toy train manufacturer designed to be fun to play with. If you take this concept to heart in some bad way and hold a personal grudge about the situation, model railroading may not be the best use of your time...
Jeff
........and ya' know, all this transformer talk and what is or isn't needed to run this engine is beginning to sound like a whole lot of guesswork (i.e., little data) which eventually drifts into the realm of heap bigum smoke. The MRR review indicated that excessive voltage may be needed but MTH replied that their testing couldn't repeat the MRR results (kinda like those who tried to reproduce the cold fusion experiment years back).
So, I took the unorthodox route and emailed MTH asking what power packs are recommended for the engine. The MTH HO brochure pictures an MRC 6200.....which is on sale this week via Walthers for $99.95 (uh oh.....is some bonehead going to accuse me of being a "Walthers shrill" now?).
I'll drop a note here when I get a reply.
gmfunk wrote: Well, I finally had a fleeting look at the new MTH K4 at my LHS.......looks great, runs great (should use 16v, though), smoke lives up to MTH's reputation, sounds are like nothing I've ever heard in HO, etc. If you're not into branding, this is one great little HO addition and certainly raises a few bars. It'll be interesting to see where MTH takes their HO line. It was a fleeting look because it was the last one left at my LHS and went out the door.......he's sold out now. Cheers, Mike
Well, I finally had a fleeting look at the new MTH K4 at my LHS.......looks great, runs great (should use 16v, though), smoke lives up to MTH's reputation, sounds are like nothing I've ever heard in HO, etc.
If you're not into branding, this is one great little HO addition and certainly raises a few bars. It'll be interesting to see where MTH takes their HO line.
It was a fleeting look because it was the last one left at my LHS and went out the door.......he's sold out now.
You should buy one before reviewing it here. Wait a few months for when Trainworld blows them out. Then you can buy one cheap, put it through its paces, and post a real review. Until then, we don't want to hear about your fantasy K-4.
3railguy wrote: You should buy one before reviewing it here. Wait a few months for when Trainworld blows them out. Then you can buy one cheap, put it through its paces, and post a real review. Until then, we don't want to hear about your fantasy K-4.
3railguy, what exactly about this model is a fantasy? Gmfunk was simply posting a statement that he saw one and liked it. Why does a post from a gentelmen who saw a model at a store aggrevate you so much? I'm probably going out on a limb here, but based on your username you may have had too much of the orange and blue Kool Aid today... Regardless of your opinion of it, or even the review MR did, there are half a dozen very postive reviews concerning this model on the various forums right now including one right here from someone who did buy one and is running it.
Mike (gmfunk),You have 11 posts in 2 and a half years...and 8 of them are on this one subject that you started and are so pro-MTH that you're actually defending them. Is it any wonder you are being called a shill?
Paul A. Cutler III*************Weather Or No Go New Haven*************
Jeff,
To see an engine in an LHS and post that you like it is fine. I do that often. But as an inquiry to those that own one. Because I'm looking to buy one and want to learn more. But, to recomend people add one to their roster based on sight as Mike did??? That's pushing it. I would never post something so foolish. Schill is the proper term.
I see looooots of engines in LHS that run really well...in circles. From $30 Athearns to $600 Overlands. Until you buy one, break it in, and really put it through it's paces, you really don't know how good of an engine it really is and certainly have no buisiness recomending it to anyone.
Don't be fooled by my screen name. I'm into N scale as well as three rail and belong to an HO club.
3railguy,
I appreciate your thoughts and agree 100% with you on knowing the facts before purchasing a product. I'm actually still waiting for part 2 (the operations follow up) from the the fellow that posted the review here (I can't remember his screen name off hand), and have many unanswered questions I would love to get answered by a modeler who has one of the beasts rather than a tech guy at MTH.
For some reason tensions always seem to run high with the MTH posts, and no matter how much I try to stay out of them (especially when heated), I seem to get sucked in. I apologize for the Kool Aid crack, but if you post at the OGR you know it's a running joke between the MTH and Lionel guys and is harmless. Besides, I've drank plenty of the blue and orange stuff myself over the years and have enjoyed every minute of it...
Take care and keep an eye out for good reviews of the K4 online. If you find one please post a link here so others (namely me) can get a look!
PS> Another N scale modeler that also enjoys three rail trains... And to think, I thought I was the only one who liked the little and big stuff...
Mr or Ms 3railguy,
Me thinks your ilk would probably be a real turnoff to the average Joe who may be looking to enter HO model railroading....or any gauge for that matter. You seem to subscribe to the secret handshake/decoder ring/funny hats mindset of a "good ol' boys" club and anyone without "proper credentials" need not apply.
I feel really sorry for those who think this way and they do a dis-service to the hobby.
My original post, as others have pointed out, was an innocent quickie noting that I had seen one of the new MTH HO engines run and it looked pretty cool.......that was it. I didn't proclaim that if you didn't run right out and buy one that you were nuts. I also observed that the single LHS that I deal with had already sold all of his ......just a simple statement of fact at the time (which actually now turned out to be wrong...he still had another in the box behind the counter I didn't see). There are some helpful questions that were raised in this thread about power requirements for this engine and whether or not folks might need to upgrade to a more robust power source.....I think that discussion was really helpful. My last response was that I emailed MTH to see what power packs they might recommend....seemed like a logical and data-based way to get at least a spin on an answer. And I mostly post in O gauge as that is what I'm most familiar with....but also really like and enjoy HO, as do many. I do repairs on both. As features I like in O gauge become available in HO, I'm very interested in pursuing HO as the use of space is hard to ignore. However, when I do, I seriously doubt I would take any of the shrill extremists on this board very seriously when asking advice and the like. There seem to be many pretty level-headed folks that get my vote as to credibility....and you and yours are not one of them.
So, in a nutshell, get a life. These are just toy trains and, at the end of the day, don't amount to a hill of beans.
I received an email from MTH that indicated the following transformers have been tested with their new HO loco (I hadn't seen a list published anywhere and there seemed to be a LOT of speculation re: what would and wouldn't work well with the engine).....I assume that by "tested" they also put out enough power to run the loco at acceptable speeds:
PS3 Compatible Transformer ListManufacturer Model Number Bachmann Spectrum Magnum Bridgewerks Magnum Series LGB Jumbo 50101 51070 50081 Titan 818* MRC Tech 4 200 Tech 4 260 Tech 4 280 Tech 2 Trainpower O27 ControlMaster 20 Trainpower 6200 *European version
gmfunk wrote: I received an email from MTH that indicated the following transformers have been tested with their new HO loco (I hadn't seen a list published anywhere and there seemed to be a LOT of speculation re: what would and wouldn't work well with the engine).....I assume that by "tested" they also put out enough power to run the loco at acceptable speeds: PS3 Compatible Transformer ListManufacturer Model Number Bachmann Spectrum Magnum Bridgewerks Magnum Series LGB Jumbo 50101 51070 50081 Titan 818* MRC Tech 4 200 Tech 4 260 Tech 4 280 Tech 2 Trainpower O27 ControlMaster 20 Trainpower 6200 *European version Cheers, Mike
So,Let's see then..IF I was to buy a MTH K4 I could not use my trusty MRC Tech 2s but,would be force to use my CM 20 or buy a newer power pack and in some case a suggested LGB or a Tech 2 O27 pack..I suspose that means in using these last 2 packs I would need to shelf my other locomotives?..
I find that's unacceptable since I can buy the BLI K4 or the Spectrum K4 and add sound and use my Tech 2s if I so desired.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I think the take-home lesson is that this generation of loco will probably (according to MTH) work fine with this list of power packs....nothing more, nothing less.......everyone has to make their own decision from there.....and isn't the ability to have more choices grand? (with the possible exception of toilet paper....which may come pretty close to one size fits all). I think if manufacturers continue to add features to locos (and assuming features like synchronized smoke chew up power) and that we choose to take advantage of new power-hungry features, that we'll be faced with perhaps having to increase available power at some point to push the new features.
From my viewpoint, it's just a power pack and represents a darn small investment......the MRC 6200 can be had for 80 bucks. So I don't see getting my shorts in a knot over something that's relatively minor when investment in one really good engine is a lot more than a good power pack.
But, to each his (or her!) own.
Mike,Its not so much in buying a new power pack per say as it is this K4 being unable to run at scale speeds above 35 smph using a modeler's current power source.. See? Thats what I find unacceptable.I have test ran a Atlas sound equipped MP15DC using my Tech 2..Of course it took a lot juice to get this engine moving but,it did and moved rather quickly once started.
Of course I feel the CM-20 would be the better power choice for these power hungry sound equipped engines operating in the DC mode with a Quantum Engineer Controller attached for the sound and light operation...
gmfunk wrote: From my viewpoint, it's just a power pack and represents a darn small investment......the MRC 6200 can be had for 80 bucks. So I don't see getting my shorts in a knot over something that's relatively minor when investment in one really good engine is a lot more than a good power pack. Mike
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
Yeah....much of my purchasing is in O dollars, which tend to be a bit bigger than HO dollars
And I really believe that, just like post-war to modern, DOS to Windows, and a host of other examples, as features are added I think the need for more power is inevitable...regardless of what flavor you run.
But it's all relative......and, like I said, to each their own. Personnally, I have a lot of stuff laying around I could sell on eBay for 80 bucks....and my wife would be glad it's gone.
I just love the 'tudes on this board........if my son conducted himself in this way, he'd be in big trouble. Perhaps a course in manners is in order.
"Much" does not equal "all".....some folks actually have the capacity to, gasp, embrace more than one scale. And if you read all the words (I know some of them may be a bit long) I've made it real clear that it's very much a case of to each his own and I've not implied stupid things like, "Gee, if you can't afford it maybe you're in the wrong hobby" or such nonsense.
The world changes.....hobbies change.....technology changes....all I'm saying is that if you want more features that gobble power and choose to take advantage of them, you're going to need to increase your output at some point. What's the big deal? For years, flashlights had 2 D cells, then Maglite and others put 3 and, heaven forbid, even 4 in.....and now the bulbs needed 6v instead of 3!!! You'd probably complain about having to buy 2 more batteries for a flashlight.
It sounds like some of you kids will *itch about anything that comes along that challenges your narrow comfort zone and that it's more of an issue of folks' capacity to embrace change and progress.....and some simply can't handle it..
I can understand how the MTH HO K4 would need more power than a standard sound-equipped locomotive. ProtoSound 3.0 is an intricate system...And would naturally be a power-hungry beast compared to most others...
But even still...Being a fan of MTH O gauge products and quality, I would think that they could at least make a product that was compatible with the majority of HO scale power supplies (12 volt), instead of necessitating an MTH approved one...I would just think that they would open up to the largest market possible.
It's a fine looking and sounding locomotive, and a great runner with the right power supplies...But I'm N scale, and this really doesn't pertain to me right now. Of course, when I return to HO some day, I'm hoping that MTH is still in production of HO products.
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
cjcrescent wrote: gmfunk wrote: From my viewpoint, it's just a power pack and represents a darn small investment......the MRC 6200 can be had for 80 bucks. So I don't see getting my shorts in a knot over something that's relatively minor when investment in one really good engine is a lot more than a good power pack. MikeFor you , a small investment, for others an additional $80 can be a really large one. Now lets just say that someone does have the money for the locomotive, but they have a small pack not on the list from MTH. OK, now its $399.00, for the loco correct? Then they find that in order to run it properly on a DC pack, as recommended by MTH, they have to get another pack at a minimum $80. Thats now a "small investment" of $479 total, to get a non-NMRA standards loco to run properly on DC. Thats not a small investment for some, (alot?).
Oh for crying out loud!!! Nobody is under the gun to buy one of MTH's K-4's, not even SPF's (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks). Besides MTH, there are 3 other manufacturers who will be glad to supply you with a K-4. 'Course, one will require you to actually assemble the thing yourself (now isn't that a big slap in the face). The latter manufacturer will also charge you for the superdetailing parts separately (unless you buy the superdetailed and more expensive kit).
As for cost, a freaking Varney Pacific cost in the neighborhood of $57.50 (probably something like $550-600 in today's dollars, if not more) in 1950. That was for the locomotive alone, a tender was not included. Dare I mention that sound and DCC weren't included either? As an aside, Bowser doesn't include sound and DCC either, but at least you get a tender (except with the Challenger or Big Boy).
The vast majority of those who WON"T buy an MTH K-4 WON"T buy one for one very simple reason: it's a Pennsy K-4. It's the same reason they don't buy one from Bowser, Bachman Spectrum or BLI.
If MTH comes out with a new model not made by anyone else (say a Santa Fe modernized 3400 class 4-6-2 or a Rock Island R-67 4-8-4), those who really want one (or 2 or more) bady enough will find a way to finance the purchase. If it means a new power pack for the DC types, so be it. IIRC, HO scale initially ran on 6 volts. Since I wasn't there, I rather imagine there was this kind of tempest in a teapot when the standard was raised to 12 volts.
Shoot, I can remember when cars had 6 volt electrical systems.Now THAT's depressing.
Andre
andrechapelon wrote: cjcrescent wrote: gmfunk wrote: From my viewpoint, it's just a power pack and represents a darn small investment......the MRC 6200 can be had for 80 bucks. So I don't see getting my shorts in a knot over something that's relatively minor when investment in one really good engine is a lot more than a good power pack. MikeFor you , a small investment, for others an additional $80 can be a really large one. Now lets just say that someone does have the money for the locomotive, but they have a small pack not on the list from MTH. OK, now its $399.00, for the loco correct? Then they find that in order to run it properly on a DC pack, as recommended by MTH, they have to get another pack at a minimum $80. Thats now a "small investment" of $479 total, to get a non-NMRA standards loco to run properly on DC. Thats not a small investment for some, (alot?). Oh for crying out loud!!! Nobody is under the gun to buy one of MTH's K-4's, not even SPF's (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks). Besides MTH, there are 3 other manufacturers who will be glad to supply you with a K-4. 'Course, one will require you to actually assemble the thing yourself (now isn't that a big slap in the face). The latter manufacturer will also charge you for the superdetailing parts separately (unless you buy the superdetailed and more expensive kit). As for cost, a freaking Varney Pacific cost in the neighborhood of $57.50 (probably something like $550-600 in today's dollars, if not more) in 1950. That was for the locomotive alone, a tender was not included. Dare I mention that sound and DCC weren't included either? As an aside, Bowser doesn't include sound and DCC either, but at least you get a tender (except with the Challenger or Big Boy). The vast majority of those who WON"T buy an MTH K-4 WON"T buy one for one very simple reason: it's a Pennsy K-4. It's the same reason they don't buy one from Bowser, Bachman Spectrum or BLI. If MTH comes out with a new model not made by anyone else (say a Santa Fe modernized 3400 class 4-6-2 or a Rock Island R-67 4-8-4), those who really want one (or 2 or more) bady enough will find a way to finance the purchase. If it means a new power pack for the DC types, so be it. IIRC, HO scale initially ran on 6 volts. Since I wasn't there, I rather imagine there was this kind of tempest in a teapot when the standard was raised to 12 volts. Shoot, I can remember when cars had 6 volt electrical systems.Now THAT's depressing. Andre
I agree with your assessment that if MTH had imported any model that was needed or the market was not saturated, they would probably sell them out in a short time. I am a Pennsy fan, but have too many good K4's already.
I would bet their next model will be a NYC Hudson. I don't believe anyone has announced any new ones for a month or so. Only BLI and Rivarossi is offering them at the present hour.
The Big Boy market is so full of annoucements that MTH must be thinking twice about their hints of a Big Boy. Genesis, PCM both metal and Brass, Key in Brass. I must be missing one!!
And guess what. PCM and Intermountain are both offering the AC-12.
Where is the D&IR M4 or B&O EM1 ??? Where do we see the Northern Pacific A4 and A5?
All we need are models that have not been offered.
CAZEPHYR wrote: The Big Boy market is so full of annoucements that MTH must be thinking twice about their hints of a Big Boy. Genesis, PCM both metal and Brass, Key in Brass. I must be missing one!!
Trix.
TrainFreak409 wrote: I can understand how the MTH HO K4 would need more power than a standard sound-equipped locomotive. ProtoSound 3.0 is an intricate system...And would naturally be a power-hungry beast compared to most others...
While you are sort of right about this, the purpose for needing the extra voltage has nothing to do with the PS3 system. As I explained in a previous post, the extra voltage is used as an overhead in the speed control system. All command systems including DCC decoders require this if they support speed control in an analog environment. If you use an ESU or Tsunami decoder with a transformer (2 decoders that support speed control while under analog control), you will notice a serious speed sag vs. using the same track voltage with DCC. While the effect isn't as great as with the MTH system, the speed control isn't as good either and lower voltages will not maintain exact speeds like the MTH PS3 system will.
TrainFreak409 wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote: The Big Boy market is so full of annoucements that MTH must be thinking twice about their hints of a Big Boy. Genesis, PCM both metal and Brass, Key in Brass. I must be missing one!! Trix.
Thanks. The Trix is one Big Boy that I have, but by all indications, I believe the new PCM might be made by Trix or Marklin and is not by a new builder. When the PCM announced the Big Boy in die cast metal and Loksound, I was curious to the maker of the model, and it might be the former Trix. If memory serves me right, it semes like Marklin was sold recently or had financial problems.
Time will tell, but if the Trix is no longer availble in the USA after the PCM Big Boy comes out, then the rights to sell here will belong to PCM.
CAZEPHYR wrote:Thanks. The Trix is one Big Boy that I have, but by all indications, I believe the new PCM might be made by Trix or Marklin and is not by a new builder. When the PCM announced the Big Boy in die cast metal and Loksound, I was curious to the maker of the model, and it might be the former Trix. If memory serves me right, it semes like Marklin was sold recently or had financial problems. Time will tell, but if the Trix is no longer availble in the USA after the PCM Big Boy comes out, then the rights to sell here will belong to PCM.
Mr or Ms 3railguy, Me thinks your ilk would probably be a real turnoff to the average Joe who may be looking to enter HO model railroading....or any gauge for that matter. You seem to subscribe to the secret handshake/decoder ring/funny hats mindset of a "good ol' boys" club and anyone without "proper credentials" need not apply. I feel really sorry for those who think this way and they do a dis-service to the hobby. My original post, as others have pointed out, was an innocent quickie noting that I had seen one of the new MTH HO engines run and it looked pretty cool.......that was it. I didn't proclaim that if you didn't run right out and buy one that you were nuts. I also observed that the single LHS that I deal with had already sold all of his .....
My original post, as others have pointed out, was an innocent quickie noting that I had seen one of the new MTH HO engines run and it looked pretty cool.......that was it. I didn't proclaim that if you didn't run right out and buy one that you were nuts. I also observed that the single LHS that I deal with had already sold all of his .....
Mr Wanna-Be-Product-Reviewer,
You wrote this sentence in your origional post saying the MTH K-4 would make a great addition.
Great addition to what? Our layouts? You only saw this thing run on your dealer's test track or display layout (you don't say) and are saying it will make a great addition? You never bought one and ran it through a number of different switches, curves, and grades with a number of different cars. So how do you really know?
Your next sentence reads:
How the heck did you get to see this thing really run if you only got a fleeting look because it was the last one left and went out the door? Or are you saying we should all go out and buy one because your dealer sold them out quickly? Sounds like hype to me. You have no idea how many times I've been told to buy it now or it will be gone tomorrow only to see it six months later marked down in price. There have been several times I have tested an engine on a store display loop only to get home and find out it doesn't work as well on my layout.
People are raising issues over power supplies so now you're passing on an email you got from MTH as to what power supplies will work with this thing. Do you own all of thesepower supplies? If we really wanted to know this from MTH we would comunicate directly with MTH. Not a self appointed messenger for the company.
My ilk may be a turnoff to you but as far as the average Joe is concerned, I care more about the average Joe more than I do you or MTH. That is the reason I am replying to your hype. The average Joe needs to hear non-biased reviews by people who actually bought the product and reported how it worked under his layout conditions after several hours of running.
I am hated by guys like you and MTH. It is assumed that if I say anything bad about MTH, I'm a Lionel lover according to the MTH loyal. I own several Lionel products as well as MTH and have pointed out negative things about Lionel as well. But those remarks seem to go forgotten.
cjcrescent wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote: Thanks. The Trix is one Big Boy that I have, but by all indications, I believe the new PCM might be made by Trix or Marklin and is not by a new builder. When the PCM announced the Big Boy in die cast metal and Loksound, I was curious to the maker of the model, and it might be the former Trix. If memory serves me right, it semes like Marklin was sold recently or had financial problems. Time will tell, but if the Trix is no longer availble in the USA after the PCM Big Boy comes out, then the rights to sell here will belong to PCM. Trix is Marklin. They are the same company.PS Andre; ya left a few makers out. You forgot used brass.
CAZEPHYR wrote: Thanks. The Trix is one Big Boy that I have, but by all indications, I believe the new PCM might be made by Trix or Marklin and is not by a new builder. When the PCM announced the Big Boy in die cast metal and Loksound, I was curious to the maker of the model, and it might be the former Trix. If memory serves me right, it semes like Marklin was sold recently or had financial problems. Time will tell, but if the Trix is no longer availble in the USA after the PCM Big Boy comes out, then the rights to sell here will belong to PCM.
My reference was to what companies are offering the model at this time. I have the Gem, Key, PFM and some other cast offs. The Marklin/Trix Big Boy, or whatever you want to refer to it, still seems to be on Ebay but they are mostly all the same production road numbers that I have, 4013 and 4015. I did notice recently a 4021 available.
I see some in stock at dealers, but I get the impression they are not in demand maybe because of their price. The PCM is about the same price and is die cast metal. It might be built by Whoever took over the Marklin/ Trix products.
Trix is the two rail DC official portion of Marklin sold in the USA. It is understood Trix is built by Marklin but the EU versions are not all the same by Marklin/
http://www.trixtrains.com/