My new Hobbytown RSD-5 kit (final update with pics.)

[Darth Santa Fe]

The Hobbytown ALCO RSD-5 kit I ordered last week came today! So far, I think I've spent about 4 hours on it, but here it is so far.


Kit form (I already built the drive, but it's not done yet)


Assembled...partially.

There's still a lot of work to do on the drive, and even more on the body! It's really a challenging kit. Even my Bowser Challenger was easier than this! Luckily, I have fun doing this sort of thing, so I'll put as much time into this thing as it needs.

There are three recent things in Hobbytown's current diesels. One, they now include 5-pole skewed can motors with low current draw. Second, the two large gears in the gear tower are nylon, so they'll run quieter. Third, the wheels are nickle plated, so they look better.

I'll be giving updates every once in a while, so stay tuned.

[Anonymous]

40 years ago this was a decent model.
Now it's an ancient glob of pot metal!
But it would make a nice boat anchor!!!!

[modelmaker51]

Here's the Hobbytown RS-3 that I built last year. I built my own drive from P2K parts and a Mashima motor (for MU compatabilty with Atlas/Athearn/P2k etc.)

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1440306

[Darth Santa Fe]

modelmaker51, nice job! It looks like it turned out to be a pretty good engine.[:D]

powderpuff, sorry, I don't have a boat. But I do have about 60 freight cars that this could haul around the layout.[:D] I'll try my best to make it look like more than an "ancient glob of pot metal."[:D] Up close, the detail really isn't bad at all.[:D]

[modelmaker51]

QUOTE: Originally posted by powderpuff

40 years ago this was a decent model.
Now it's an ancient glob of pot metal!
But it would make a nice boat anchor!!!!

I would have to disagree with you. The Hobbytown body is actually one of the most accurate RS-3 (or RSD-5) bodies ever produced. Non of the "modern" RS-3s out there have ever gotten the hood roof contour right (Atlas/MDC/Athearn). The radiator fan diameter is spot on (although the look is enhanced by adding the etched brass screen from Detail Associates). The truck spacing is correct (not so on the Atlas or MDC/Athearn). Hobbytown's weak areas were the handrails and molded-in grabs and the sideframes. They now come with cast brass handrail (mine's an older one and I used Smokey Valley's).

And BTW it weighs in at about 20.1 oz, so it'll pull your anchor around the layout, (or about 50 cars)! [:D]

[cjcrescent]

Boat anchors indeed! Obviously you're not aware of the tractive power a Hobbytown can generate.

[modelmaker51]

I will admit it is not a model for the faint of heart, as it does take a fair amount of grinding, sanding and drilling to really make it look good. But the end result is worth it and you have the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

BTW Darth Santa Fe: I have drop-in resin castings for the radiator shutters if you want improve their look a bit, see my profile for contact info.

[cudaken]

Darth Santa Fe, they still make pot metal engines? Boy I am new and old at the same time. I just got into the hobby but last metal engine I saw was when I was 8 or so, I am now 50. God I hate typing I am 50.

Just ask powderpuff to do a head on crash like on the Adam's Faimly Tv show and I think it would say NO.[:D]

Guessing by your name you are a Santa Fe fan as well. 65% of my engines are War Bonnets. Old mid 60's Athearn FP 45 War Bonnet making the rounds as I miss spell. Getting ready to fire up a E-6 A and Erie Bulit powered B and haul some real freight.

Latter on maybe you can give me some tips on painting a E-6 under coated War Bonnet. Never painted a modle before, car's yes and I mean 1:1 cars. So far around 300. Body man by training.

Cuda Ken

[Anonymous]

Oh my there Darth Santa Fe; you sure did bring tears to my eyes. I put one of those together in 1968 when I was stationed in Southern California - took part of a reenlistment bonus to buy one - I took the other part of the reenlistment bonus and bought a Volkswagen Bus - as anyone who has ever owned a Volkswagen can tell you the Hobbytown was, by far, the better buy. Anyway, I bought an identical one in 1974. The 1968 one - and I would guess the 1974 one also - took me about 27 hours to build. Lot of filing - lot of sanding - lot of drilling - but when it was done it sure looked nice. And pull???? Today we talk about adding weight to a body to increase pulling power; in those days you didn't need to add any weight, it was there. The motor in your photograph looks like a Mashima - mine from almost 40 years ago were (open-framed) Pittmans, a little anachronistic, perhaps, but they had once been the standard for the age and were still being used extensively by Hobbytown of Boston, Bowser, and others.

In 1980 when I was getting into N-Scale I sold them, and all of my other HO stuff, off at a swap meet - I ask - and got - fairly good money for them too. At Railfair here about two years ago I was observing an HO modular layout and a couple of RSDs came by lugging fifty to sixty cars. They were my old units and the guy that now owns them came up to me and ask if I recognized them. He's owned them now for over 25 years, he had to replace the wheels on the trucks - they just wore out - but, he told me, they still have the same Pittman motors in them with no indication they are going to need replacing any time soon.

I owned a number of Hobbytown units across the years and never regretted having purchased a one of them. I also owned a number of Cary boilers on Mantua/Tyco mechanisms and a couple of Penn Line/Bowser types, mainly NYC K-11s. By the time I decided to get some Varney Northerns and Berkshires they were out of production and could not be had anywhere. All of these companies had excellent quality control mechanisms in place and were some of the most respected - and reliable - businesses in the hobby. A few years ago there was a company called Arbour - and another called, I believe, The Locomotive Company - which tried to resurrect die-cast locomotives without too much success, mainly, I am led to believe, because they lacked that very quality control feature. As far as I'm concerned die-cast is really the only way to go.

And Powderpuff - these are locomotives; you, Athearn and Volkswagens are paperweights.

[modelmaker51]

For anyone interested in trying out a Hobbytown loco or other cast metal units check out:

http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

Here's the Hobbytown RS-3 that I built last year. I built my own drive from P2K parts and a Mashima motor (for MU compatabilty with Atlas/Athearn/P2k etc.)

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1440306

Very nice - what did you use for the horns and horn bracket? That's EXACTLY the type I need to do mine. I've tried making a bracket from some styrene pieces but it looks way oversized. Yours looks right on, Reading had the same type (or maybe your unit is an ex-Reading, I don't have a list handy).

--Randy

[BRAKIE]

Darth,A very close friend of mine has 10 Hobbytown RS3 and 6 RSD4s..These units date back to the 60s and they are 45 years old and still running.[:D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

I will admit it is not a model for the faint of heart, as it does take a fair amount of grinding, sanding and drilling to really make it look good. But the end result is worth it and you have the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

You're right about the grinding and sanding part. I've had to use my file on this thing so much I'm surprised it didn't build up enough heat to start on fire![:O]

QUOTE: same as above

BTW Darth Santa Fe: I have drop-in resin castings for the radiator shutters if you want improve their look a bit, see my profile for contact info.

No thank you. I'd like to work with what I've already got, but thanks for offering.[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cudaken

they still make pot metal engines?

Guessing by your name you are a Santa Fe fan as well.

maybe you can give me some tips on painting a E-6 under coated War Bonnet.

They sure do.[:D] There are still a few companies out there that manufacture metal steam and diesel kits, like Bowser, Hobbytown and Tiger Valley.

Santa Fe has been one of my favorites since I started.[:D]

If you're talking about painting the Warbonnet, I don't know if I could help with that. So far, the only thing I know how to do for multi-colored engines is mask off certain areas to make straight lines. I don't know how to do curves, like in the Warbonnet.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtpoteet

And pull???? Today we talk about adding weight to a body to increase pulling power; in those days you didn't need to add any weight, it was there. The motor in your photograph looks like a Mashima

I know what you mean about weight! I've got a Model Power RS-2 that's like a feather compared to the Hobbytown all-metal RSD![:O]

I don't really know if the motor's a Mashima or not. It comes standard with all of Hobbytown's kits now (minus the yard switcher chassis), so it may be made by Hobbytown. There are some markings on it, but most of them were worn off either at the factory or during shipping.

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Darth,A very close friend of mine has 10 Hobbytown RS3 and 6 RSD4s..These units date back to the 60s and they are 45 years old and still running.[:D]

That's because they're from back when things were durable and reliable.[:D] A lot of these newer designs are really problem prone. Back then, when you got it built right, it would run for the rest of your life![:D] My grandpa's Mantua 0-6-0 ran for the rest of his life, and it's still running!

[Darth Santa Fe]

UPDATE: The drive is now nearly perfected. It just needs some break-in time now. This thing runs very slowly (around 45 scale MPH), so it wouldn't be good for fast freight. I believe the RS-3 and other Hobbytown kits (except the switcher chassis) have higher gearing (12:1 instead of 21:1), so they should all run closer to 75 or 80 scale MPH.

Still have work to do on the body, but it should be ready for painting after a few more hours of work.[:D]

[dragonriversteel]

Darth,

I wasn't awhere hobbytown is still in business. I'll add this though....you are a guy who sees six axle motive power as a plus. Friggin awsome looking locomotive!!!!!!!

Patrick
Beaufort,SC
DRSC

[METRO]

Now that's ambition. I think I'll stick to my Atlas RS3 though, not sure I'm ready to tackle something like that yet, but my hat is off to those who do.

Cheers!
~METRO

[tsgtbob]

Mine has pulled 75 live load 50 foot hoppers on a club layout, didn't even strain!
As for the comments about boat anchors, the old stuff is better in the fact that there is no substute for WEIGHT in tractive effort!
I prefer the contours of the Hobbytown units over anything else, even my O scale Weaver RS3s.
Now, those darned brass wheelsets....(on mine, tell ya how old it is!)

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe
There are three recent things in Hobbytown's current diesels. One, they now include 5-pole skewed can motors with low current draw. Second, the two large gears in the gear tower are nylon, so they'll run quieter. Third, the wheels are nickle plated, so they look better.

Are you going to get the centripetal clutch for it? That was always my favorite "link" in the Hobbytown drive chain.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe
There are three recent things in Hobbytown's current diesels. One, they now include 5-pole skewed can motors with low current draw. Second, the two large gears in the gear tower are nylon, so they'll run quieter. Third, the wheels are nickle plated, so they look better.

Are you going to get the centripetal clutch for it? That was always my favorite "link" in the Hobbytown drive chain.

You're showing your age, dude, although I think it was actually referred to as a "centrifugal clutch' ( http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/xmpl/hbtwn.html ). Man, that takes me back more years than I care to count to those Hobbytown ads in MR.

The contemporary kit prices aren't bad, either, all things considered. The RSD4/5 happens to be my favorite ALCO diesel. Maybe it's time to build a kit.

Andre

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

Are you going to get the centripetal clutch for it? That was always my favorite "link" in the Hobbytown drive chain.

I think I'll keep the standard flywheel on mine. I'd have to search eBay to find one that would fit the RSD. Hobbytown still makes a centrifugal clutch, but it only fits the switcher chassis.

[modelmaker51]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

Here's the Hobbytown RS-3 that I built last year. I built my own drive from P2K parts and a Mashima motor (for MU compatabilty with Atlas/Athearn/P2k etc.)

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1440306

Very nice - what did you use for the horns and horn bracket? That's EXACTLY the type I need to do mine. I've tried making a bracket from some styrene pieces but it looks way oversized. Yours looks right on, Reading had the same type (or maybe your unit is an ex-Reading, I don't have a list handy).

--Randy

I made my own from some square styrene strip stock, cut it at an angle and drilled a mounting hole thru the "top" for the horn and a small hole thru the "end" of the bracket for a mounting pin (.020 brass wire), then CA'd everything to the cab wall.
I have also made brackets from angle brass as well.

QUOTE:

QUOTE: BTW Darth Santa Fe: I have drop-in resin castings for the radiator shutters if you want improve their look a bit, see my profile for contact info.

No thank you. I'd like to work with what I've already got, but thanks for offering.

I meant to suggest that I send you samples (free of charge) for you to try out. They lay right on top of the original shutters within the frame and don't require any modification of the hood.

QUOTE: Darth Santa Fe Posted: Today, 16:58:40
UPDATE: The drive is now nearly perfected. It just needs some break-in time now. This thing runs very slowly (around 45 scale MPH), so it wouldn't be good for fast freight. I believe the RS-3 and other Hobbytown kits (except the switcher chassis) have higher gearing (12:1 instead of 21:1), so they should all run closer to 75 or 80 scale MPH.

Hobbytown offers different gear sets for all their locos:

QUOTE: From Hobbytown's FAQ:

There are two basic gear sets available for the current line of hobbytown four and six axle road switchers and freight/passenger cab units and a special-order super high speed "Express" set for those who want to get out of Dodge in a hurry! Additionally there are three gear ratios available for the Yard Switcher, which uses a different combination of gear sets. The following lists indicate the ratio and parts required for each gear set. Some ratios will require a special main drive shaft assembly. Non-standard gearing must be ordered direct by e-mail and are not listed with the standard parts.

BTW another thing you can't do with the "new" stuff.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Tiger Valley. I don't remember seeing their ad in many, many years. They had/have a chain drive if I remember right. I never owned one, myself, but I encountered them periodically during the course of my HO years. Are they still in business somewhere???; do they have a webaddress??? If so I'd like to take a gander at just what they have to offer.

Gotta "PS" this: when I got done with the original posting I went to the web and searched them out. They are still in business - in Phelps, NY - and they have a website which is http://www.lynnet.com/~tigervalley.

[modelmaker51]

Tiger Valley Models is owned and operated by Guilford Mack in Phelps, NY. He farms as his day job, so responses and product availability sometimes depend on what time of year it is (planting, harvest,etc). Guil's a real nice guy and likes to talk, so it's best to phone him after you've gotten the product list mailed to you.

TVM produces virtually every ALCo (including most of the MLWs) from the 1940s on. His chassis' are similar to the Hobbytown drives, but use a chain and sprocket instead of a gear tower to tranfer power to the trucks (like the old S and O scale drives). Same massive weight and tractive force as Hobbytown. (I have a couple of C-628s that weigh 34 ounces - you can see some of my bridges actually bend!) Powered units come with Sagami motors and NS wheels.

I buy the dummy kits and adapt "modern" drives to them to preserve MU capabillity with my Atlas/Kato/Proto etc. However, having recently converted to DCC, I won't really have to do that anymore.

Contact info and some photos are here:
http://www.lynnet.com/~tigervalley/

[gmcrail]

Just got through building my first Hobbytown kit . Well, not "through", exactly - more like "runable". There is a ton of detail work, and some breaking-in to do yet - the old toothpaste treatment. I got the E-unit chassis and a Cary E7 body. The chassis was an older one - pre-can motor, purchased on eBay - but not old enough to still have the DC91 motor, unfortunately. [:)] I haven't had so much fun building a kit in many, many years! I've done more re-engineering, fitting, filing, shimming and general tweaking than I think I've done in over 50 years of model railroading to a single locomotive.

To start with, I substituted a Johnson can motor salvaged from an HP printer (3400-series, I think), that broke a while back, for the stock DC-71. That helped quiet it down some. I had to engineer mounts for the body out of styrene and automotive epoxy putty. To free up the drive, I had to shim the wheel bearings away from the drive shaft. The gear tower had to get other shims than what the instructions called for - they called for 4 layers of cellophane tape, which was 'way too much. I put in .001" brass shims. I reversed the setup for the truck wiring, making the front truck the one picking up from the right-hand rail, and common to the chassis. That took a bit of fiddling with spacers, etc., as well.

The whole thing weighs about 2 pounds or so with the Cary body. I'll take it to the post office one of these days to have it weighed properly. Top speed with the stock gearing is about 63 mph - I can live with that. Not as fast as the prototype, perhaps, but acceptable for a small layout.

And powderpuff, this thing, without traction tires, I might add, will pull your boat anchor, and your boat, anywhere you want. Oh, and like the prototype, this model has A1A trucks - the center axle in each truck is an idler.

Hobbytown kits are not for the cowardly modeler, to be sure. Their instructions are minimalist, and not really well illustrated, though adequate, if you know what you're doing. If you can't deal with having to actually think, don't get one. But if you want more fun and more challenge building a locomotive, they're hard to beat!

Ain't we got fun! [:D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

Update #2

I've finished modifying the body mounting, so the flat-head screws are flush with the bottom of the frame, making it so the rear truck can clear the screws.[:D] All I need to do now to improve the mounting is file the front and rear tabs down a little that hold the hoods on so it won't be such a tight fit.

The engine's running smoothly, but it's very noisy right now. I might try adjusting the gears to make it quieter, but I don't know if that would work. Did anyone else's Hobbytowns quiet down after a few hours of running?

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

QUOTE:

QUOTE: BTW Darth Santa Fe: I have drop-in resin castings for the radiator shutters if you want improve their look a bit, see my profile for contact info.

No thank you. I'd like to work with what I've already got, but thanks for offering.

I meant to suggest that I send you samples (free of charge) for you to try out. They lay right on top of the original shutters within the frame and don't require any modification of the hood.

That is a very good offer, but I'd still like to just work with what came in the kit.[:D] Again, thanks for offering.[:D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

Update #3

I've got it so the body fits properly on the frame, instead of being too tight, which might cause warping. A lot of flash has been filed off, but there's still more to get rid of. After that and a cleaning, it should be ready for a coat of primer.

Now the drive is as good as I'll get it. Both truck drive shafts were slightly bent, but I was able to straighten them out enough to smooth its operation more.[:D] All it needs is to be broken in for a few hours.[:D]

Hobbytown recommends using Kadee #8s for this engine. Are they a drop-in fit? I know #58s won't fit, and they're the couplers I wanted on there because of the scale sized heads.[:(]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
I think it was actually referred to as a "centrifugal clutch'

I think you are right. There is a difference in centripetal and centrifugal forces, although I don't remember what that difference is - where did I put that elementary physics book?

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
I think it was actually referred to as a "centrifugal clutch'

I think you are right. There is a difference in centripetal and centrifugal forces, although I don't remember what that difference is - where did I put that elementary physics book?

Forget the physics books. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/cf.html

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/hframe.html

The fingers in Hobbytown's centrifugal clutch moved outward as the rotational speed of the motor shaft increased and contacted the inside surface of the clutch with increasing force. At low rotational speeds there would have been some slippage resulting in better low speed performance in comparison to a directly coupled drive.

It was an interesting solution to a problem caused by motors that couldn't rotate slowly due to "cogging" and the inherent friction in the motor.

As a side note, about 30 years ago, I managed to score a couple of very highly efficient instrument motors. These motors, while too large for most HO applications (although they'll fit in an "covered wagon" unit with some frame milling) , were rated at a max 24 volts drawing 2 amps. The motor will turn at less than 60 RPM at low voltage. If you couple that to a 30/1 gear box, you'd get a rotational speed of 2 RPM. Given that wheel diameter speed is 336 RPM (i.e. when an 80" driver loco is doing 80 MPH, the driver rotational speed is 336 RPM), That's less than 1/2 scale mph on a model of an engine with 80" drivers. On an F-7 with 40 inch drive wheels, that'd be less that 1/4 scale mph. IOW, it would take that F-7 (HO scale) more than 1 hour to go about 15 feet. Watching paint dry would be more interesting. [:D]

Andre

[Anonymous]

Guys,

This thread is very inspiring! As a HO Modeller and soon to be 1-1 scale rebuilder on an RS1, I have really enjoyed seeing your posts on this thread. I know I have the skills required to BUILD one of these kits, but my downfall will be in the painting of a kit like this. Are there any thoughts on this? Could I do it with spray cans and decals, or would it be better to try and borrow an Air Brush? Or use the excuse to BUY an air brush! LOL!

Chris

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
At the Great Train Store in Atlanta, we sometimes carried metal Mantua metal steamers. But you had to look quickly because they disappeared in a hurry! Then our brilliant management would replace them on the shelves with inexpensive, plastic steam locomotives. We could admire them at length because they sat there for a LONG time. . I'm pretty sure people just looking at them couldn't tell they were metal or plastic, but they preferred to buy metal. I shared that with Keith at MDC and he found that "interesting." TGTS might still be in business if the buyer had bought MDC or Bowser metal instead of IHC plastic. I couldn't see that TGTS had any strategy other than to sell junk around the cash registers. If you sold 200 pieces oif candy you would get a bonus but if you sold an LGB mallet, you got nothing.
Sometime I want to build a Bowser K-11 with detail parts. Darth Santa Fe, I salute you on your endeavor. Bon chance!