Old Model RR mags - Worth saving intact?

[steamage]

I have a small collection of Model Trains magazines that treasure. Todays magazines get cut up and sort into file folders.

[Anonymous]

Again, just a data point for those considering copying or scanning, and recycling the rest...

I tackled this project (including my drum magazines - which I was even more attached to) about 2 years ago. Keep in mind, these are drum magazines I read as a kid with my "hero's" in there, etc.

I have not regretted it once. I saved everything I "couldn't live without". That is the criteria for keeping it - not, "I might want this someday".

Referring to a post above, I think it would be nuts to keep every 1/4" screw you have just in case you need it one day. I'd be living in a junkyard in a matter of months.

Free yourselves! Do away with the mags now!

(I initially saw myself keeping them my whole life, but as the number of boxes used to move them turned from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5, I knew I essentially "had a problem".

[Anonymous]

Well, I have different magazine years some of which goes back to before 60's.

I advocate scanning good quality copies page by page organized by year and month into a server where people can download and read on the computer like a PDF file.

I suppose there is a cost, man hours and equiptment that will be needed for that work.

[MJ4562]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
Well to continue with your analogy, people are talking as if a set of mags are of incalculable value in modeling, sort of a box that held " every possible screw you could ever need!" That would be valuable, wouldn't you think?

Really though, for as many people who think a complete, intact set is a fabulous thing to have, there doesn't seem to be many people putting down the ca***o create their own complete, intact set, otherwise they wouldn't be sold at swap meets for a quarter a piece or go begging on ebay for 6 bucks a year - and with free shipping, no less.

It's like organizing any kind of group activity, everyone thinks it's a great idea but when the time comes to commit they all back out.

Good luck. It's one of the most painful things I've done.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by APG45

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
What I was really meaning was if these things are so valuable (witness the responses on this thread) how come they are so cheap and plentiful?

KL

Maybe helpful or useful would be better words than valuable. It's like that 1/4 inch screw you find you're missing while holding up the ceiling fan you're installing. You wish you had it but it doesn't have much market value.

Well to continue with your analogy, people are talking as if a set of mags are of incalculable value in modeling, sort of a box that held " every possible screw you could ever need!" That would be valuable, wouldn't you think?

Really though, for as many people who think a complete, intact set is a fabulous thing to have, there doesn't seem to be many people putting down the ca***o create their own complete, intact set, otherwise they wouldn't be sold at swap meets for a quarter a piece or go begging on ebay for 6 bucks a year - and with free shipping, no less.

QUOTE: It sounds like you're mainly interested in the "how to" type articles, which have little or no value use after 10 years.

I wouldn't say that first part is true, but I agree that much of the how-to stuff ages poorly (as I said before, because of advances in the state of the art in materials, kits, electronics, and modeler expectations). I find their main value in the prototype info that supports it.

QUOTE: OTOH, cutting up a MR is a terrible thing. I would suggest scanning in everything you think you might be interested in and then giving them to your library or sell them (for 10 cents each) to a used bookstore. That way other people can enjoy them and you will be helping ensure that they are still be plentiful if you change your mind.

Scanning? Good gosh you're crazy - I'm talking 500 mags here. Heck, if I could get somebody to commit to paying the shipping for this heap I'd consider letting them have them for nothing after I'd copied what I wanted.

[This may be a copyright violation. If so, please consider this a purely hypothetical discussion. . .]

KL

[davekelly]

While scanning articles into a data base is a great way to cut space, if I were to do that I couldn't read them in the reading room. [:D]

[MJ4562]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
What I was really meaning was if these things are so valuable (witness the responses on this thread) how come they are so cheap and plentiful?

KL

Maybe helpful or useful would be better words than valuable. It's like that 1/4 inch screw you find you're missing while holding up the ceiling fan you're installing. You wish you had it but it doesn't have much market value.

Whether to save or discard is a personal choice. I trash or give away all my magazines except for MR because I enjoy the layout visits.

It sounds like you're mainly interested in the "how to" type articles, which have little or no value use after 10 years. OTOH, cutting up a MR is a terrible thing. I would suggest scanning in everything you think you might be interested in and then giving them to your library or sell them (for 10 cents each) to a used bookstore. That way other people can enjoy them and you will be helping ensure that they are still be plentiful if you change your mind.

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Two points those who advocate cutting out articles and throwing the rest of the magazine away should consider:

1. Especially in the case of newbies and semi-newbies (anyone with less than 8-10 years in the hobby), you are clipping what interests you right now. You have no idea what info may come in handy next year or five years from now. Generally, it turns out to have been in the portion of the magazine you discarded.

Excellent point. It's amazing how one's interests change and evolve over time. I often find myself reading again and again articles that didn't interest me a bit when I first received an issue. It is also sometimes fun to get an old volume out and page through it just to see what has changed and what has remained the same.

Of course the magazine index offered here, makes finding stuff a snap!

[Morpar]

After reading this thread, it puts me to thinking about all of the paper I have saved around here. I think there is a lot of merit to taking the time to scan all of the relevant pages of a magazine, then enter the information into a searchable database, perhaps using Visual Basic to easily access the information. Note that I said relevant information. I feel there is no need to keep the advertisements from a hobby supplier that went out of business 12 years ago out of a 20 year old magazine. Interesting, maybe. Useful, no! In this way, if one ever would want an article, they would have access to it without the paper hassle.

The exception would be any plans or drawings that either have fine lines or are foldouts. 20 years ago I started to organize these kinds of thing by having large envelopes labeled for an item with the pictures, plans, or whatever in them. For example, one envelope has "EMD SD45" written on the front. Inside are the various photos I have of SD45s, old calendar pages with SD45s in the picture, the operating manual that I was given during a trip to the Frankfort yards, and a drawing that came from some magazine. This is how I would store the foldouts or drawings that don't seem to scan or print well, yet may need to be kept. Just getting all of this done would cut down drastically on my storage needs. I would not want to just scan the stuff I have interest in now, because I know how my interest can change and will rather quickly! If you have all of the information, why would you want to keep the entire paper husk?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
[Convert a Hudson into a suburban

KL - Do you even know what a "suburban" is?

CNJ831

Heh, heh. I see what you mean. In the context of a model train magazine my first thought was that it referred to converting a Hudson (4-6-4) into the PRR/LIRR G5s (4-6-0) commuter train loco. Now if the listing had said "Convert a Hudson into a Suburban", I might have thought cars . . .

KL

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
For one, I have no interest in steam, plus, is this necessary on today's - or the last 10 year's - locos?

NYSME trackplan

A club plan. No interest.

Building a Consolidation Locomotive, part 6: tender

Again, steam and probably unnecessary given what's out there. Perhaps some proto photos or info worth keeping.

Convert a Hudson into a suburban

See previous two.

KL - Do you even know what a "suburban" is?

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92
[ Even though I have most of the paper indexes from MR, I'd rather keep my copies, and use the index on here. It's much easier that way.

That brings up an interesting point . Look at what the the mag index here lists for, say, the March 1946 MR:

Making steam loco pilots

Union Line box car

NYSME trackplan

How to use signals

Building a Consolidation Locomotive, part 6: tender

Convert a Hudson into a suburban

Rectory railroad

A.A.R. 1932 standard steel sheathed box car

Eight articles. Isn't that sort of tacit admission that there aren't more than eight things in that issue worth keeping track of?

Let's look at these eight. Just from the titles, I'd certainly keep:

Union Line box car

A.A.R. 1932 standard steel sheathed box car

I might keep:

How to use signals

but I suspect there ain't much in there that hasn't been covered several times more recently in articles or books.

These - by title alone - have no appeal to me:

Making steam loco pilots

For one, I have no interest in steam, plus, is this necessary on today's - or the last 10 year's - locos?

NYSME trackplan

A club plan. No interest.

Building a Consolidation Locomotive, part 6: tender

Again, steam and probably unnecessary given what's out there. Perhaps some proto photos or info worth keeping.

Convert a Hudson into a suburban

See previous two.

Rectory railroad

??? but likely a feature on some model building priest, running a train with his vestments and engineer's cap on. . .

Maybe if this had been the first MR I'd ever bought (I still my first time-tattered Scale Modeler) I'd hang on to it, but seeing it for the first time in 2006, I can see I'd be shedding about 90% of the pages.

KL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ErnieC

Interesting thread. I have issues from the 40's and it looks like I'm the only one who likes to curl up with an old issue on a quiet evening and enjoy the mag for the memories and insights it offers

I do that from time to time myself, I just doubt that I need 500 old issues to curl up with. . . I've also found that I have more affinity in this regard to magazines I bought new - reliving old memories, I guess. Ones I bought en masse later just don't have a personal connection.

QUOTE: [Something else no one has mentioned, the old issues contain irreplacable articles on the prototype, first hand descriptions of things no longer available, otherwise you are stuck with the desert landscape of the contemporary scene.

Well maybe no one mentioned it directly, but I'd agree that's true. It's also true that I would probably save those articles - or at least a goodly number of them.

KL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

it depends , is your hobby really collecting magazines or are they a reference source ?

Another good point.

KL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dirtyd79
If you mean for the articles then yeah I'd say save them. As for financing your retirement with a stack of MRs my advice to you is learn to love ramen soup.

What I was really meaning was if these things are so valuable (witness the responses on this thread) how come they are so cheap and plentiful?

KL

[BR60103]

I have modified my magazine collecting a bit: I no longer keep the subscription cards that fall out of the magazine.
I really hate it when I buy an old Model railroader and find that the interesting article stops in the middle because someone cut out a story on the next page. Worse when I find that the feature article is missing.
My RR magazine library is 6 shelves, about 16 feet long.

[ErnieC]

Interesting thread. I have issues from the 40's and it looks like I'm the only one who likes to curl up with an old issue on a quiet evening and enjoy the mag for the memories and insights it offers. Something else no one has mentioned, the old issues contain irreplacable articles on the prototype, first hand descriptions of things no longer available, otherwise you are stuck with the desert landscape of the contemporary scene.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark

I've bought a lot of old mags, mostly '70s on, but with a few back to '47 mixed in. Generally I just cut out the articles I like and throw out the husks, but I'm hesitant when doing it to a mag 60 years old. Given that these things go begging on Ebay at 50 cents per, is there really any value in keeping these old ones whole?

Kurt Laughlin

If you mean for the articles then yeah I'd say save them. As for financing your retirement with a stack of MRs my advice to you is learn to love ramen soup.

[emdgp92]

I still have all of my MRs...going back to the late 1970s. They're all in binders and are neatly stacked in those plastic crates from Target. I could have cut them up, but with my luck, as soon as I did that, I'd need one of the articles I'd tossed [:D] Even though I have most of the paper indexes from MR, I'd rather keep my copies, and use the index on here. It's much easier that way.

[Anonymous]

Way to go, CARRfan; you sure touched a nerve with me. I hadn't thought about creating a digital archive but I sure have now. Years ago when I was studying to become a computer programmer one of my projects was a program designed to index magazines - I, of course, had my model railroading/prototype railroading magazines in mind. This has been on hold for twenty years - time to get off my caboose and get it done I guess. My old computation was that it would take about 2-3000 lines of code - about 50 hours. Piece of Cake!!!!

One thing I need to explore first is the possiblity that there might be a database/spreadsheet system that would allow an indexing function. I was a "hard language" programmer and haven't worked with those things in quite awhile.

About the copyright ramifications of creating a digital archive; I am not an authority on the issue but I am an aspiring (notice I didn't say "perspiring") novelist and I have crossed swords with this issue before. You bought it and therefore you have acquired an "interest" in the magazine. You can not profit from the intellectual property (read: sell it) nor can you cause the author/publisher to sustain loss (read: give it away, and [picky-picky-picky]. loan it - every used book store in this country is in violation of copyright law and, therefore, technically illegal. Libraries have an exemption to this rule because they are [usually] municipal agencies. Even then they are not supposed to have "used book" sales.) You can store the information in any manner that warms the cockles of your heart.

[SOU Fan]

I have MR mags from the late 40's, and a year of model crafstman from the late 40's also. They are great references for just about everything.

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

1. Especially in the case of newbies and semi-newbies (anyone with less than 8-10 years in the hobby), you are clipping what interests you right now. You have no idea what info may come in handy next year or five years from now. Generally, it turns out to have been in the portion of the magazine you discarded.

I knew before I started cutting my magazines that this could be a problem, so I was conservative in my selection of articles to keep. I still made a few mistakes in my choices, but in every case where I have wished I hadn't discarded a particular article, I have found an intact copy of that issue at a hobby shop or show for less than $1. Problem solved.

QUOTE: 2. If you amass any significant collection of clipped articles, how are you going to reference what you've saved? If someone here, or in a current issue of MR, refers readers to the article on page 58 of the July 1978 issue, how will you go about finding it (if you happened even to keep it)?

I clip all the articles I want to keep from one issue, corner staple them to keep them together (this doesn't always work when there have been oversized centerfold pages, but then I can use a paper clip instead) and place each issue in its own plastic sheet protector in a binder. I always keep the table of contents and the front cover. The TOC goes on top of the stapled stack, and the cover goes on the bottom facing backwards so that it is visible through the sheet protector. This way, I can page forward through the binder to browse through the TOCs (a little tricky during the era of the two-page TOC), or I can page backward through the binder to look at cover pages which may remind me of an article I'm looking for.

This system works pretty well for me. Although there are some disadvantages to clipping articles, the advantages of saved space and easier access to articles are worth the effort.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark

I've bought a lot of old mags, mostly '70s on, but with a few back to '47 mixed in. Generally I just cut out the articles I like and throw out the husks, but I'm hesitant when doing it to a mag 60 years old. Given that these things go begging on Ebay at 50 cents per, is there really any value in keeping these old ones whole?

Kurt Laughlin

Everyone tends to file things in his own way, but I choose to remove pages with good articles that can be used for references and toss the older magazines to save on space. Our hobby has changed so much in the last ten years, many of the older articles are not totally relevant to our latest technolgy.

Articles on weathering and basic model building can usually be used and drawings of prototype equipment is always good to have for your reference. Some of the tips and articles do stand the test of time for sure.

If you space, keep them for your future reference.

[ereimer]

it depends , is your hobby really collecting magazines or are they a reference source ?
i recently thinned out my collection a bit and reduced a 4 foot wide shelf of old mags to 3 inches of cut out articles . i should confess that they were all RMC's not MR's , now i have room on the shelves for MR from 2000 - 2008 [:D]

[Anonymous]

Saving old model magazines is a matter of personal preference, I clip what I feel works for me, too many adds and articles on other scales and the like. I keep them in smaller binders. References to freightcars, scenery, detailing etc. I don't need the other stuff, but that's just me. Mike

[SilverSpike]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

You mayb be in breach of copyright in doing this you know

You're right, and I imagine it's about as illegal as taping an episode of the Cosby show to watch on Saturday instead of Thursday.

I'm not distributing this stuff, and wouldn't share if someone asked for it.

This is the modern age, and this is how information is stored these days.

Have you ever made a "best of" audio tape to play in your car on long trips? How about a CD?

This is about as illegal as that. I paid for this information, and now I'm storing it differently for myself.

Sometimes in my own life, I have to put common sense above technicalities of the law. I know that sharing the information would be wrong, and I'm not doing that, and won't, because I know it's wrong. It's extremely simple to me.

EDIT: Might I add, it's my understanding that singing "Happy Birthday" at a birthday party is illegal, because it's a "public performance" of someone else's copyrighted song - which is why restaurants make up their own songs, and you're thinking, "why don't they just sing the regular song?". Remember that next time you sing Happy Birthday!

[#ditto] What you said! CARRFan

As long as it is for personal use only there is really no reason to worry about legal issues. It is when the material is copied for further distribution that it becomes an issue.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Save them, along with every other thing that should have been tossed years ago, then when the kids try and settle your estate they have to wade through piles and aisles of old books and newspapers and the deposits of your 25 cats, then they have to go and sort out the 2400 boxcar kits you collected over the last 40 years and have to get rid of the 400 brass locomotives you hoarded and which the kids will sell for $5.00 each. Sure , keep those old mags.

And it's just what the little brats deserve to be stuck wading through endlessly! As to selling off my brass collection at $5 a head, I couldn't care less when I'm dead. Besides, it's their inheritance that they'll be p**sing away then, won't it?! [;)]

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

You mayb be in breach of copyright in doing this you know

You're right, and I imagine it's about as illegal as taping an episode of the Cosby show to watch on Saturday instead of Thursday.

I'm not distributing this stuff, and wouldn't share if someone asked for it.

This is the modern age, and this is how information is stored these days.

Have you ever made a "best of" audio tape to play in your car on long trips? How about a CD?

This is about as illegal as that. I paid for this information, and now I'm storing it differently for myself.

Sometimes in my own life, I have to put common sense above technicalities of the law. I know that sharing the information would be wrong, and I'm not doing that, and won't, because I know it's wrong. It's extremely simple to me.

EDIT: Might I add, it's my understanding that singing "Happy Birthday" at a birthday party is illegal, because it's a "public performance" of someone else's copyrighted song - which is why restaurants make up their own songs, and you're thinking, "why don't they just sing the regular song?". Remember that next time you sing Happy Birthday!

[tatans]

Save them, along with every other thing that should have been tossed years ago, then when the kids try and settle your estate they have to wade through piles and aisles of old books and newspapers and the deposits of your 25 cats, then they have to go and sort out the 2400 boxcar kits you collected over the last 40 years and have to get rid of the 400 brass locomotives you hoarded and which the kids will sell for $5.00 each. Sure , keep those old mags.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
The other thing I've noticed in my other modeling hobbies is that even factual information becomes dated. Drawings that were made in 1962 or whenever are found to be in error or weak on small details as research uncovers more data, new pictures show different colors for the standard schemes, structures are seen to be freelanced rather than prototypical, and so on. Wouldn't that make the old info less valuable?

I am always very cautious about relying on supposedly superceding info nowadays. We are getting quite far removed from the steam era and although someone may turn up a piece of paper saying (supposedly documenting) such-and-such about a given structure, loco, whatever, in my opinion it is just as likely to be incorrect as is the older, already known info. Firsthand information from a contemporary observer always carries more weight for me than some yellowed piece of office paper that said one thing but whose order was carried out in the field in quite a different way.

QUOTE:
I strongly suspect...that referencing back issues will be less far reaching as time goes on, due to the "shelf-life" of info described above. When was the last time somebody referenced a 1961 article in MR, other than to say something like "The Gorre and Daphetid was first featured in the June '52 MR. . ."?

Actually, I see it fairly often in the magazine. The July 2006 MR just referred readers to an article appearing in the December 1974 issue, without which the current piece (Perkins) becomes a pointless item of look-what-I-did...but not a how-to-do-it article. There are plenty of times when the author, or perhaps the editors, refer the reader back to some past article, where the subject at hand was typically covered in far more detail than it is in the current issue.

QUOTE:
How much shelf space or cubic feet does it take up? And when was the last time you pulled something useful from the May 1946 issue?

Perhaps not from the 1940's but, as a longtime hobbyist, I often find myself referring to MR articles and material from the 1950's to the 1980's to assist me in various layout projects. In fact, many of my more recently scratchbuilt structures are based on articles from that earlier time frame. The longer you are in the hobby, the more you discover how valuable the older MRs are. And as to will they ever come out as a single DVD? I doubt that will happen in the near future, especially with Kalmbach offering vintage articles as PDF files at a price. More likely all their articles will become available in that sort of format than as a one-shot DVD.

CNJ831