QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix The top right hand track is the yard lead.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
QUOTE: I just put in as many tracks as would fit
QUOTE: The top left corner is a storage track. Your loco, caboose, etc can be parked there.
QUOTE: The top right hand track is the yard lead.
QUOTE: "you still need turn back lobes that protrude into the room and those can be quite large if one wishes to have decent size curves for long wheel base engines and cars"
QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE Simon,Around the walls layouts takes space as well.while the width of the layout can be 12-30 inches you still need turn back lobes that protrude into the room and those can be quite large if one wishes to have decent size curves for long wheel base engines and cars which cuts down on the straight running,yard area and industries..Of course one could always go around all fours walls and across the door way but,still one would need wider areas in the corners for curves.Now,if one chooses to anchor their layout in the wall studs then one would need to know the studding spacing which could be every 18 or 24 inches.So IMHO a around the wall layout is still a weak argument against a 4 x 8 footer especially for us that has built around the walls layouts with good LDEs...BTW LDEs is not a new thing but been around as long as I can remember in layout sigs.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13 Originally posted by SpaceMouse What's a yard lead? A yard lead is something that I drove the members here nuts because I couldn't get the concept. A yard lead is a section of track equal in length of the largest track in the yard that the switcher uses to build trains and sort cars. It is also known as a drill track. Just throwning a bunch of tracks out there and calling it a yard doesn't make it so. It has to make sense. For instance you reverse the direction of the yard near the bottom. An engine switching the tracks on the right side of the "yard" cannot switch cars into the left side. The engine would be trapped by the cars. Conceiveably, you could use the S turns in the top as a quasi run around, but then you could not store cars on the lower right track because they would block your abilty to use the right side of the "yard." Likewise a train leaving the yard could not switch the industries in the lower portion of the layout because the engine would be at the front of the train and trapped behind the cars it was trying to drop. Unless, of course, you dropped the cars and cirlcled the layout and pushed the cars in. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply ericboone Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Minnesota 659 posts Posted by ericboone on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:25 PM Alexander, You have come up with a nice plan for a 4 x 8. There is only one area that may be a problem. Getting to the left side of your yard requires the use of a switchback. The track for the switchback is only 18 inches long. Thus you can only get 1 or 2 cars plus a locomotive onto the switchback at a time. Otherwise, it's a great 4 x 8 plan. Do take the other posters comments to heart. Now you haven't explained the room the layout is in or the other uses the room must be capable of. If your aisles are doubling as access for other features or uses for the room, then a 4 x 8 is a good way to go. Otherwise, looking at your plan, it must be accessable from at least 3 sides. That means the layout space is really about 8 x 10. With a 4 x 8 island layout, you get approximately 18 feet of mainline with two short 3 foot straight sections of mainline that you can put switches from and make yards next to. If you designed an 8 x 10 layout with a lift out or duck under to access the center, your loop will have approximately a 28 foot mainline plus two 5 foot straight sections, two more shorter 3 foot straight sections, larger radius curves, and more area to make yards and industries. Plus, with this option, your yards can be outside the loop, allowing you to make longer yards that extend to the edge of the benchwork. You could easily have a three track single ended yard with the shortest yard track being about 6 feet long. If you do not want to make a lift out or a duck under, imagine a layout shaped like an L with 4 x 4foot "blobs" at each end for turn back loops. This is a variation of the "folded dogbone" style layout. You will still have about the same mainline as the 8 x 10 rectangle and plenty of room for a long yard along the 10 foot long side of the layout. Industrial track can go into inside the loop of track at each end. The only drawback from the previously discussed 8 x 10 layout is the minimum mainline track radius will be tighter. Good luck, Eric Reply tatans Member sinceMay 2004 4,115 posts Posted by tatans on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:13 PM Hooray for 4x8ers Not enough said for this format, there must be thousands of 4x8 craftsmen out there and they are having fun, they don't feel unprivileged because they do not have a 48x50 layout, it's more than sufficient for a great hobby and enjoyment, maybe the guys who claim to have started out on a 4x8 and are now on mega-layouts just don't have any imagination. I saw a 4x8 logging system that would knock your socks off, it was great. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Alex, Can you turn off the track part numbers and post it again. There are a couple things I see that are cautions. First of all you have multiple S turns in the upper center. Secondly, although you have multiple yard tracks, you have no yard lead that you can use to effectively classify cars. Maybe you could explain how it is supposed to work so I can understand. What's a yard lead? I just put as many tracks in a would fit. Te plan is that you arrange a small train at the yard, and then proceed for a few laps, before going to the industrys and switching them, before going to the yard and breaking down the train. The layout has been desgined for small trains like geeps, Funits, small steamers, etc. It uses 18' curves. Alexander Reply Edit SpaceMouse Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Rimrock, Arizona 11,251 posts Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:59 PM Alex, Can you turn off the track part numbers and post it again. There are a couple things I see that are cautions. First of all you have multiple S turns in the upper center. Secondly, although you have multiple yard tracks, you have no yard lead that you can use to effectively classify cars. Maybe you could explain how it is supposed to work so I can understand. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply BRAKIE Member sinceOctober 2001 From: OH 17,574 posts Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:49 PM Simon,Around the walls layouts takes space as well.while the width of the layout can be 12-30 inches you still need turn back lobes that protrude into the room and those can be quite large if one wishes to have decent size curves for long wheel base engines and cars which cuts down on the straight running,yard area and industries..Of course one could always go around all fours walls and across the door way but,still one would need wider areas in the corners for curves.Now,if one chooses to anchor their layout in the wall studs then one would need to know the studding spacing which could be every 18 or 24 inches.So IMHO a around the wall layout is still a weak argument against a 4 x 8 footer especially for us that has built around the walls layouts with good LDEs...BTW LDEs is not a new thing but been around as long as I can remember in layout sigs. ============================================================= nbsrr, Sorry! Gotta ask..What is that picture suppose to be? Larry Conductor. Summerset Ry. "Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!" Reply SpaceMouse Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Rimrock, Arizona 11,251 posts Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:44 PM It's not that you cram or not, it's how well you cram. Needless to say it has to make sense on both an asthetic level as well as an operational level. That said, sometimes it makes more sense to do an around the room layout in the same foot print. Other times, making a larger layout only increases the footprint (you stil have to get around it) and a 4 x 8 makes more sense. It's all about planning, planning, planning. On a small layout (or any layout) every square inch has to make sense and be there for a reason. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:41 PM To answer your questions: Yes, it is a 4x8 in HO scale. The 8 yard tracks aren't arranged like a proper yard, but they serve the same purpose. It has a continuios loop, and a town. In RTS I have put some scenery on, just thought you might like to know. http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/8168/cat/510 The file is around 55kb, so if you have really slow internet then yes, you should watch out. And BTW I like all the 4X8 Discussion that is going on. Alexander Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:37 PM lets try this pic Reply Edit simon1966 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Metro East St. Louis 5,743 posts Posted by simon1966 on Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:09 PM Brakie and Hotshot, I don't disagree with you at all about the desire to have continuous running. I would get bored myself if this were not possible on my layout. Having built a 4 x8 myself and seen what a space hog it was, and how I could not reach the center back of the layout when I pushed it up against the wall, I think you can use the same space more efficiently with an around the walls type approach. IMO this does not preclude continuous running. Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply BRAKIE Member sinceOctober 2001 From: OH 17,574 posts Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:49 PM Simon,I have built more then my share of industrial switching layouts.Those are nice layouts but,one needs a love and desire for switching industries not many modelers have that love and desire to switch cars continually so a industrial switching layout is not a very good argument against the 4x8 foot layout with continuous running nor a cure all answer from these that push switching layouts over a 4x8 foot layout.. Regardless if I had the room for a 4x8 footer in my double wide trailer hades its self could not stop me from building a 4x8 footer like the one I linked to.[:D] Larry Conductor. Summerset Ry. "Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!" Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:49 PM here is the 4x8 (so far) that said, I believe have may be able to expand the room to allow a u-shaped layout on right , 2 x3 and 13 x 2....hope the pic displays [img]]4x8.jpg [[img] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:16 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE Guys,Like I mention in another thread..I would love to have room for a 4x8 foot layout..[sigh] Brakie, that really is the point. If you consider access to a 4x8 you really do need to set aside alot of space to have one. Just a 2' walkway around the layout and you need an 8x12 space. That same 8x12 space could have a nice switching shelf layout with far more operational interest and still leave most of the room available for other activities. Yeah but some people find pure switching layouts boring as crap (unless the have a dogbone setup). I personally had 1/2 of my continuous loop down due to paint and switch replacement and could only run point to point for a week or two and was completely bored with it. I would have rather watched paint dry then endlessly switch box cars all day so a continuous layout is what i need and a 4x8 (mine is 13x7 L shaped but based off a 4x8) fits the bill perfectly for me and many others who want to run trains with some speed and not have to reverse directions every 2 minutes. Switching is ok for some but i want to actually run trains not move blue box freight cars back and forth all the time (which i can still do on my layout). Reply Edit Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:06 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13 Whoever tried to say that 4x8's have no potential haven't seen this layout. I don't believe anyone has ever said that. The arguments against 4x8 layouts aren't that one can't cram lot into them. I however can't imagine what one would do with an 8 track yard on a 4x8 layout. Even if one track is arrivals and one track is departures that implies there are six other towns or major industries requiring separate trains to send cars to. I have one plan where I squeezed three separate towns onto a multi-level 4x8. Even then the industries did not warrant a yard at all. One local train in each direction was able to service them all. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:39 PM If "cramming" is your objective, then it's a fine thing to do. Lots of track doesn't (necesssarily) make a good layout, less track doesn't (necessarily) make a poor one. But, there is only one person that has to like it! Reply Edit Don Gibson Member sinceJune 2004 From: Pacific Northwest 3,864 posts Who says a you can't cram a lot into a 4x8 Posted by Don Gibson on Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:29 PM SIMON SAYS it best - read. I said:" A 4X8 is a LARGE layout, it takes up more room than 4X8 to operate" (unless you are like Jeffers,mz). Is that 'panning' the 4X8? (Certainly not the resourceful Mr. Jeffers). ALEXANDER says "Who says a you can't cram a lot into a 4x8? Agreed - but isn't "CRAM" the watchword? Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ########################### Reply jeffrey-wimberly Member sinceJune 2004 From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana 25,640 posts Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:58 AM My first HO layout was 4 x 8 Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana Joined June, 2004 Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam Reply 1234 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by SpaceMouse What's a yard lead?
QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Alex, Can you turn off the track part numbers and post it again. There are a couple things I see that are cautions. First of all you have multiple S turns in the upper center. Secondly, although you have multiple yard tracks, you have no yard lead that you can use to effectively classify cars. Maybe you could explain how it is supposed to work so I can understand.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE Guys,Like I mention in another thread..I would love to have room for a 4x8 foot layout..[sigh] Brakie, that really is the point. If you consider access to a 4x8 you really do need to set aside alot of space to have one. Just a 2' walkway around the layout and you need an 8x12 space. That same 8x12 space could have a nice switching shelf layout with far more operational interest and still leave most of the room available for other activities.
QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE Guys,Like I mention in another thread..I would love to have room for a 4x8 foot layout..[sigh]
QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13 Whoever tried to say that 4x8's have no potential haven't seen this layout.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam