Who says a you can't cram a lot into a 4x8?

[jecorbett]

Let me just say that regardless of what plan you finally settle on, a yard with a few long tracks will serve you much better than one with lots of short tracks. Short tracks work for industrial spurs but there isn't much point to having a classification track that will only hold 1 or 2 cars. I think the plan posted by SpaceMouse is an excellent choice with lots of potential for operation. Think about how your layout is going to operate. Trains will be made up in your yard, head down the mainline and then distribute cars to industries and then the process is reversed as cars are picked up, taken back to the yard to be reclassified. This can be done by one train or two separate trains. You could add a passenger train to the mix for additional interest. There are software packages that will allow you to simulate operations on your layout design before you lay one piece of track. If you don't want to invest in that, you can walk through your operations on a paper layout. Just make sure there is enough length on the various tracks to allow you to make the moves you are planning.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I know this is not what you want to hear, but slow down and think things through. You are about to invest a lot of money and time into this project. It only makes sense that the better you plan, the better the layout will be. Sure your first layout is where you make your mistakes, but why make mistakes that can be avoided.

Do some research and study on track design. Read Track Planning for Realistic Operations by John Armstrong. It will give you a background for ways to design layouts that will keep you interested for years instead of ones that you will tire of before you finish.

Check out this layout from John Armstrong.

Now this is packing a lot into a 4 x 8.



And here is a workshop on how to run realistic operations on that layout, by Byron Henderson.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id39.html

Doesn't that one have a reverse loop? how hard are they to wire? Would it majorly affect me if i removed it and added more industry tracks?

[Anonymous]

I don't want to sound rude, but what more could you want with industry? You do know that with a small town, and the current industrial buildings, you'll have no more room!

[BRAKIE]

Frankly I would do away with that reverse track..You just gotta to know its uses a 3-5% grade in order to get up and over the other tracks.I would also do away with any hidden tracks.Hold those thoughts..I would just redo the layout.[:D]

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Frankly I would do away with that reverse track..You just gotta to know its uses a 3-5% grade in order to get up and over the other tracks.I would also do away with any hidden tracks.

That's a crossing, not an up-and-over.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cuyama
That's a crossing, not an up-and-over.

Even a better reason to redo that layout.

[Anonymous]

well...
havent really sketched it out yet but i designed a 500$layout which includes Benchwork plywood foam walthers buildings scenery water and smaller accesories last night
Its basically a oval, angled to the edge so its not straight on
a passing siding with a freigt station on the passing siding and a passenger or the main
2 spurs
1 leads ot the coal yard while the other leads to a Grain Co.
the grain turn out is a facing point trnout so you would need to se off the cars for the coal and then run back to the poassing siding and wait for passenger train to pass before heading to the grain mill while facing the other direction, or do the whole thing the opposite way delivering the grain first
This is single control with a MRC Tech 4 200
the roster includes an RDC a trainman GP40 a trainman 50ft + 40ftboxcars, hoppercar,centerflow, and caboose for 120$
The day starts out where the freight rolls ofut of the staging and heads into town, At the passenger station the RDC is waiting,
The freight then goes to deliverr the coal, the passenger waits at the passenger station on the main because the freigt is pulling off the passing siding
Then when the frieght retursn a short time later power is shut off while the RDC is sent around (then sent off on a switch which leads into a tunnel on the side for staging
The loco runs around its train and head out to the grainmill delivering the cneter flow
The freight returns to the passing siding and after delivering the 2 boxcars to the freight house and gets back up to the caboose, the RDC comes out of hiding and continues its trip as power is shut off to the passing siding, when the RDC gets back to the passenger station power is turned on to the Passing siding and the loco and caboose head to staging
for added fun allready have 1 of the 2boxcars at the Freigth station
after they have delivered all cars and are left with caboose or caoose andboxcar the freight goes back into hiding, You can also add some laps in between set outs
etc and when the freights done the RDC has the main to its self
If ya want I can make a trackplan to show here f anybodys interested,
Simple layout+lots of fun for a little less that 500$

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: so i am breaking a few rules with the yard lead But it is the only way that i can do this trackplan.

Not true at all. I wish I had the time to do some explaining. BTW Not having a yard lead may eventually be a major bottleneck.
This is the best 4x8 I have ever seen-
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

[Ibflattop]

Maybe the yard is on a 4x8.......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

QUOTE: so i am breaking a few rules with the yard lead But it is the only way that i can do this trackplan.

Not true at all. I wish I had the time to do some explaining. BTW Not having a yard lead may eventually be a major bottleneck.
This is the best 4x8 I have ever seen-
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

Wouldn't the inside track use 15" curves? But otherwise it isn't a bad layout plan.
Alexander

[IRONROOSTER]

Gateway Division has a lot of small layouts they have built over the years http://www.gatewaynmra.org/project.htm

The reversing loop in plan 26 from 101Track Plans allows for a point to loop operation. You make up a train in the yard in the middle, run it around the oval some number of times, through the reversing loop and back into the yard. You can certainly leave out the reversing loop, but then I think that there are better plans available.

Wiring isn't too hard, Atlas makes a special controller for reverse loops. DCC has a module for reverse loops also.

Enjoy
Paul

[swoodnj]

I've read this thread with great interest. I'm currently "layout-less", and am ready to start building. I've got one small spare room to use, about 9 1/2 x 11. The room has a double wide closet, two windows on one wall, and obviously a door. I could do an L or U shaped plan, but to go all the way around the room would involve more time and carpentry skills than I have available.
While I do enjoy switching, like many others I would not want to have a switching only layout. I work some long hours, and sometimes just watching a train roll along is enjoyable, if not therapeutic.
I've contemplated a return to N scale, but I really enjoy custom painting and superdetailing diesels. Yes, I know it can be done in N, I've done it. But it's much more enjoyable in HO. And I'm having a blast with DCC sound on my little test track.
So, I've been contemplating a 4 x 8 in this room with one of the short sides up against a wall. Since time is tight I could get up and running fairly quickly. And if I got ambitious I could put a small yard off on an extention.
If you guys haven't visited the gateway nmra site I highly recommend it, they've done some great stuff in 4 x 8 and smaller.

Steve W

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix
[This is the best 4x8 I have ever seen-
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

As i posted earlier, but it seems not to have been read:

QUOTE: Originally posted by cuyama

I believe you will find that particular track plan is the "Red Wing Division" project railroad from MR, published in the Dec, 1994 issue.

One may order reprints from Kalmbach. The plan may also have been featured in other Kalmbach books.

I think you'll find that a number of the Gateway NMRA designs are from MR published plans.

Regards,

Byron

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13
Wouldn't the inside track use 15" curves? But otherwise it isn't a bad layout plan.
Alexander

Not according to the published plan in the December, 1994 Model Railroader. Those are 18" on the inside, 22" on the outside, with fitter straights. There also a bit of flextrack in the plan.

But while we're on the topic, here's a great example of one of the challenges with 4X8s. Adding only a foot to the width would allow broader curves and/or slightly eased curves with flextrack. Adding a foot or two to the length would allow for more interesting operations and help eliminate the funky switchback.

I submit that the main reason 4X8s are popular is that it's the standard size of a sheet of plywood and folks are afraid to mess with it. If the standard size of a sheet of plywood was 5X9, that would be the "sacred sheet" that nobody wanted to violate. And the HO layouts built on them would be better, IMHO.

Better yet, if people could get over their fear of carpentry, we'd see more 5X9, 5X10, boat-shaped, L-shaped, and other variations on island-style layouts that would be better foundations for long-term interest in HO. Any of those could be placed on casters, which is one of the canards people suggest for preferring the 4X8.

Regards,

Byron

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix
This is the best 4x8 I have ever seen-
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

For a single level plan it isn't bad. Sort of like a yard, a main, and a branch spur. The trains can only enter the yard in one direction. From the other direction the train would have to "back in". It just has no industries other than on the branch.

I think I like the one Spacemouse dug up earlier better. It can be operated as a point-to-point so the trains really have somewhere to go to. And then here is one I designed for Harely on this thread last summer. In many ways similar to the one you like so much except it doesn't have as massive a "yard". A 1870s one with three towns the train can go to:

Yes, as I recall that center loop IS 15" radius. And I don't know why, by this version is missing the turn table in the upper town. I think this was a draft.

[BRAKIE]

Texas Zepher,If you will look more closely there is a track that can be used as a inbound/outbound track on this layout.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg


Not meaning to be mean but the layout you are proposing isn't all that great..It would be a better choice for a logger or mine railroad operation since its calls for steep grades and sharp 15" curves...[:D]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Not meaning to be mean but the layout you are proposing isn't all that great..It would be a better choice for a logger or mine railroad operation since its calls for steep grades and sharp 15" curves...[:D]

1870's steam would have no problem with the turns, however, without traction tires, the 4% grade might be a problem.

[Anonymous]

heyy i have a 4x6 and i have a 13 track yard a turn table with 6 tracks off of that double track mainline with reversing loops and a double slip switch with a possibitly off 40 shut off switches ( toggle switches ). i am very pleased and about too make it larger!!! i cant wait!!!

[Anonymous]

I will have a go in RTS again and see what i can come up with.
Alexander

[marknewton]

Alexander, if you are determined to jam all this track onto a 4x8 HO scale layout, you might want to consider a traction theme. The looping track, tight curves and short sidings would be more appropriate, and you'd have a better chance of developing plausible-looking urban scenery.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Anonymous]

I'm Investigating adding more space to it actually......

[james saunders]

alexander, don't try cram too much into there, i did it once and honestly it looked like rubbish and didnt last long, it would be more enjoyable from my point of view to have a single track loop and a couple of spurs for industries, and then you would be able to have room for a town and some nice scenery.

just my [2c]

james.

[Anonymous]

OK, I give up. Someone, could i please have a good 4x8 layout. Is this possible?

Oh i don't want the layout itself, just the plan.

Alexander

Alexander

[swoodnj]

Trouble is everyone's definition of a "good 4x8 layout" is going to be different. What are your goals and interests? I would definitely agree with others that you should resist the temptation to fill the layout with track.

Have you visited the Gateway NMRA site? Some of the best 4x8s I've seen....

[SpaceMouse]

I know you are in a hurry, but being in a hurry just means you increase your chances of building something that won't meet your needs. You can add more space, more decks, etc. it won't matter. You have to know what you want. The more you know what you want, it more likely the design you come up with will fall into place. There are great 4 x 8's out there, but the one's designed by other people are perfect for them, not you. Until you know exactly what you want put a loop on your 4 x 8 sheet so you can run your trains, and start studying other layouts, the designs of the masters.

Look at the use of back drops, mirrors, scenic elements, etc to create "space." The real trick of a 4x8 is creating a "here to there" feel. Then expect to put a a lot of time into building it.

[BRAKIE]

Chip said:Look at the use of back drops, mirrors, scenic elements, etc to create "space." The real trick of a 4x8 is creating a "here to there" feel. Then expect to put a a lot of time into building it.
============================================================
Absolutely! A very good friend of mine has a 4 x 8 footer design for the rail fan.
The front part is highly scenic with a Station,3 industries,road and other mintue details and 24" deep.A 4 foot view block hides the other side which is nothing more then 10 staging tracks..All trains are ran on a time table..It really nice to see a doddle bug appear,stop at the station and then continue on its way.Some times a meet is made in the passing track..Its always 1928 on his layout.

[Anonymous]

I think, IMO, since 4x8s are so small that you should make it great. That means good trackwork, paint the track, paint and weather the buildings and make sure something doesn't look out of place. What I basically said was make everything there look like it would
be in real life.

For me there are two types of 4x8s, Idustrial and small town. Industrial is a layout thats based around one industry. You cram industry full of buildings and track and it would still make sense. Small town is a layout thats based around a town.

[Anonymous]

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2094/scan652715324010ek.jpg
ok well... this is a rough sketch
atlas #4 switches
18" r curves

[swoodnj]

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/mhslayout/mhslayout.htm

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/projectmr.htm

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/project12.htm

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

[Anonymous]

OK. I am trying to figure out what i want.
I want
1. A main line run
2. Some industries
3 A small yard.
5. A small town.
Is it possible to fit this onto a 4x8?
I noticed that one of the layouts had a port on it, i was thinking if i had a port on my layout then it would need every type of car.......
It needs to be expandable for when i get a big shed to put it in, it will be made bigger.

If you know any trackplans like this then tell me

Alexander