Who says a you can't cram a lot into a 4x8?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Alex,

Can you turn off the track part numbers and post it again.

There are a couple things I see that are cautions. First of all you have multiple S turns in the upper center. Secondly, although you have multiple yard tracks, you have no yard lead that you can use to effectively classify cars. Maybe you could explain how it is supposed to work so I can understand.

What's a yard lead? I just put as many tracks in a would fit. Te plan is that you arrange a small train at the yard, and then proceed for a few laps, before going to the industrys and switching them, before going to the yard and breaking down the train.
The layout has been desgined for small trains like geeps, Funits, small steamers, etc. It uses 18' curves.

Alexander

[tatans]

Hooray for 4x8ers Not enough said for this format, there must be thousands of 4x8 craftsmen out there and they are having fun, they don't feel unprivileged because they do not have a 48x50 layout, it's more than sufficient for a great hobby and enjoyment, maybe the guys who claim to have started out on a 4x8 and are now on mega-layouts just don't have any imagination. I saw a 4x8 logging system that would knock your socks off, it was great.

[ericboone]

Alexander,

You have come up with a nice plan for a 4 x 8. There is only one area that may be a problem. Getting to the left side of your yard requires the use of a switchback. The track for the switchback is only 18 inches long. Thus you can only get 1 or 2 cars plus a locomotive onto the switchback at a time. Otherwise, it's a great 4 x 8 plan.
Do take the other posters comments to heart. Now you haven't explained the room the layout is in or the other uses the room must be capable of. If your aisles are doubling as access for other features or uses for the room, then a 4 x 8 is a good way to go. Otherwise, looking at your plan, it must be accessable from at least 3 sides. That means the layout space is really about 8 x 10.
With a 4 x 8 island layout, you get approximately 18 feet of mainline with two short 3 foot straight sections of mainline that you can put switches from and make yards next to.
If you designed an 8 x 10 layout with a lift out or duck under to access the center, your loop will have approximately a 28 foot mainline plus two 5 foot straight sections, two more shorter 3 foot straight sections, larger radius curves, and more area to make yards and industries. Plus, with this option, your yards can be outside the loop, allowing you to make longer yards that extend to the edge of the benchwork. You could easily have a three track single ended yard with the shortest yard track being about 6 feet long.
If you do not want to make a lift out or a duck under, imagine a layout shaped like an L with 4 x 4foot "blobs" at each end for turn back loops. This is a variation of the "folded dogbone" style layout. You will still have about the same mainline as the 8 x 10 rectangle and plenty of room for a long yard along the 10 foot long side of the layout. Industrial track can go into inside the loop of track at each end. The only drawback from the previously discussed 8 x 10 layout is the minimum mainline track radius will be tighter.

Good luck,

Eric

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

Originally posted by SpaceMouse

What's a yard lead?

A yard lead is something that I drove the members here nuts because I couldn't get the concept.

A yard lead is a section of track equal in length of the largest track in the yard that the switcher uses to build trains and sort cars. It is also known as a drill track.

Just throwning a bunch of tracks out there and calling it a yard doesn't make it so. It has to make sense. For instance you reverse the direction of the yard near the bottom. An engine switching the tracks on the right side of the "yard" cannot switch cars into the left side. The engine would be trapped by the cars. Conceiveably, you could use the S turns in the top as a quasi run around, but then you could not store cars on the lower right track because they would block your abilty to use the right side of the "yard."

Likewise a train leaving the yard could not switch the industries in the lower portion of the layout because the engine would be at the front of the train and trapped behind the cars it was trying to drop. Unless, of course, you dropped the cars and cirlcled the layout and pushed the cars in.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

• Reply

You go dawg! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Why didn't I think of that? [;)]

[Anonymous]

Ok, so i am breaking a few rules with the yard lead But it is the only way that i can do this trackplan. What is wrong with the industries/ I can't see a problem with them?

Thanks
Alexander

[Anonymous]

I would reconsider the track that runs right along the edge - is there even room for a decent ballast profile?

And yes, you can shove a 4x8 against the wall and still reach everything - shove one of the <short> sides.

I believe shelf, island, and doughnut layouts all have their time and place, but how come no one mentions the aisle requirements for any but the island? If you're not considering outside-access aisles for the doughnut, then it's really just another way of saying "around-the-walls".

And shelf layouts need the same 18" - 24" aisles, so the 24" - 30" shelf footprint is really 42" - 54".

[jeffers_mz]

Alexander, first off, that long track along the upper edge of the layout is your key to future expansion. Hang on to it if there's a chance you will add onto this layout later. You might even consider adding a second one. You do have to think about having a derailment here, it wll probably cost you a loco or more if it happens, but a plexi guardrail or an embankment can save the situation. On my layout trains traverse these areas at channel speed dead slow, and I don't leave them parked there. Remember, a 4x8, aka a 48x96, can easily become a 51x96 with an 8' 2x4 and about four three inch screws.

Second, you can avoid the need for a dedicated run around track by taking either one of the existing yards, and reversing it left to right, a mirror image. Be aware, which ever way you go will set your direction of operations to some extent. The way it is now, a train will pull out of one yard, and after a few laps on the main, will pull nose first into another yard, where the locomotive will have a hard time dropping any cars and getting back out.

The more variations you try out now, the better and smoother things will work later on, don't be afraid to run through a hundred variations if that's what it takes, then you won't be stuck wondering "what if" later on.

If you haven't already, consider putting casters underneath your benchwork. It's a little extra work, and requires beefed up diagonal leg braces, but it allows you to run trains with the layout tight to walls or a corner, and only slide it out when you need to work on or access the other side. I just slid mine out from the walls today, for the first time in several months, because it's time lay plaster. This slows down hallway traffic to some extent, but I planned around it. I was ready to start a couple weeks ago, but the long suffering furnace here finally gave out, so I had to get the new one in before tackling plaster on the layout. Now I have heat, (just in time for summer naturally), and soon we'll have a layout with terrain too.

Hang in there, good times coming.

:-)

[BRAKIE]

This is much better.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

[SpaceMouse]

I know this is not what you want to hear, but slow down and think things through. You are about to invest a lot of money and time into this project. It only makes sense that the better you plan, the better the layout will be. Sure your first layout is where you make your mistakes, but why make mistakes that can be avoided.

Do some research and study on track design. Read Track Planning for Realistic Operations by John Armstrong. It will give you a background for ways to design layouts that will keep you interested for years instead of ones that you will tire of before you finish.

Check out this layout from John Armstrong.

Now this is packing a lot into a 4 x 8.



And here is a workshop on how to run realistic operations on that layout, by Byron Henderson.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id39.html

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

This is much better.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

Is there anywhere i could get that trackplan for free?
Alexander

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

This is much better.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

That one's nice, too.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

This is much better.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

Is there anywhere i could get that trackplan for free?
Alexander

Alexander, try writing to the NMRA Gateway group http://www.gatewaynmra.org/contacts.htm they are a good bunch of guys and I am sure that they would be willing to help if someone still has the plan. They make a new model most years and raffle it off. I have seen several of these layouts at the various train shows in the area. http://www.gatewaynmra.org/project.htm

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffrey-wimberly

My first HO layout was 4 x 8

As was mine. Now when ever I have to build a 4x8 for myself, it is always in N scale so I can cram in alot.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

This is much better.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/layouts/gcrr2.jpg

Is there anywhere i could get that trackplan for free?
Alexander

Alexander, try writing to the NMRA Gateway group http://www.gatewaynmra.org/contacts.htm they are a good bunch of guys and I am sure that they would be willing to help if someone still has the plan. They make a new model most years and raffle it off. I have seen several of these layouts at the various train shows in the area. http://www.gatewaynmra.org/project.htm

Common guys. Just look at the photo and use your Atlas program. It's a no-brainer.

[cuyama]

I believe you will find that particular track plan is the "Red Wing Division" project railroad from MR, published in the Dec, 1994 issue.

One may order reprints from Kalmbach. The plan may also have been featured in other Kalmbach books.

[Anonymous]

If you have the December edition of MRR, read the artical titled "10 Steps to a better layout." Then, read rule # 2!

[SOU Fan]

If you want alot of track crammed into a 4x8 look at the june 1977 MR. There is a guy who has a 3 level HO/HOn3 layout.