Who's right ? ?

[tatans]

I attended a train show a while back and was standing at a dealers table gawking like a seagull when I glanced at the next table, a guy was buying a box of used ho cars and the price on the box was $10.00, the guy had the dealer down to $3.00, I then told the dealer I would give him $7.00 for the box and another guy said he would give him $8.00, I said $10.00 and the original buyer went completely ballistic, screaming and yelling and pushing people and swearing until he was removed.---- NOW was I wrong to interject on the transaction along with the other guy who bid? ? Did I break some cardinal rule?? please advise. I think there might be a 50-50 response, I'm still not sure myself.

[Anonymous]

If it wasn't an auction then maybe you should have waited and tried to purchase the items from the buyer. Think about it. Would you want someone to interupt a transaction you are conducting and force you to up your negotiated offer or give up the purchase?

[Anonymous]

Sounds like the guy got his toes stepped on BIG time. Granted, all is fair in love and war, but I would hope there is some courtesy among hobbiests. If the guy got the dealer to agree to 3 dollars, (seems by your description that this is the case)then everyone else needs to butt out. The 1st guy beat you to the punch. If the dealer wanted to , he could have told him no.
BUT,
If the guy offered the dealer 3 bucks and the price had not been agreed on, then a higher offer could be extended, and escalate into bidding.

[rolleiman]

Dickering for price on used trains at train shows is not an uncommon thing. In fact, I'd say it's expected. If the other potential buyer was willing to Pay the $10 he should have just whipped out the ca***o begin with. Would I be disappointed if it had happened to me? Probably. Would I act like a raging butthole because of it? Definately not. I've missed Many bargains at shows because I didn't act fast enough. I've had people snatch items right from under my hand and out of my hand in one case (and he may have done me a favor by doing so). I say if you can make a bargain and get what you want, go for it. Remember though, train shows usually aren't auctions and you're bound to pi$$ somebody off by starting a bidding war. Were I the seller however, and the other guy didn't start asking like an a$$, I would have given him first shot to produce the $10.

So, after all that, did you end up with the $10 box of cars? If so did you do the guy a favor or was it the bargain you hoped for?

My 3 [2c]

[Anonymous]

As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing wrong or unethical about what you did. As long as your offer was legitimate, noone can say anything about it. I myself think there is a bit too much negotiation on these sorts of things. When I put a price on something, that's going to be the price.

On the other hand, if I put a price on something and someone has the cash, but another fellow says , but I'll give you five bucks more ... I'll tell him to talk to the new owner. This is a free country and I like free market economics.

[zgardner18]

Dude, that is a tuff one. If I was the guy buying the box for $3 I would be pissed too. I probably would of acted in the same way. I guess you have to put yourself in his shoes.

Who came out with the box anyways?

Personally, I think it was a sad situation.

[Anonymous]

What a moral delima. First the guy tries to beat up the dealer for more tha half the asking price. Well, maybe he should have given the dealer the asking price or a little less and taken the box and gone, but he was (IMO) greedy. The dealer might have said "No Deal", but did you jump in before he had a chance to deny him?. The other guy might have said no deal and give up and maybe tried again later.
When I had a table at a train show, if someone wanted to talk me down too much, I tell them come back at the end and if I still had the item, we'll deal.

So were you wrong? Yes, in the context that you jumped the gun and as Bob said, it wasn't an auction setting even though the other guy counter bid. The dealer probably would have refused to sell at $3, depending the time of day, and the guy may have walked away. We'll never know.
But IMO, you are not responsible for his outburst [:(!] He could just as well walked away or kept up the bidding until you gave up and walked away. Then he could have told the dealer he changed his mind. [(-D]. What could the dealer do?[:(]

And women complain men don't show their emotions. [swg]

[tatans]

Tatans here: it's a bit of a tough call, the other bidder ($7.00) took off like a rocket , so I got it for $8.00,and it was a goldmine of good stuff, I'm rebuilding most of it to logging stock so this was treasure for me, I think I'll heed the some of the advice above and not do this again, just a few too many guys walking the thin line, thanks

[tangerine-jack]

If the dealer closed at $3 for a sale, then he should have enough professional courtesy to say NO to all other offers, a deal's a deal and that's final. I don't think you were in the right for stepping in, but the other guy certainly wasn't right either by acting as he did, nor was the dealer right for changing his price after closing. Do three wrongs make a right?

Live and learn.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

.. it was a goldmine of good stuff

See, if it was worth the ten bucks the other guy should paid the asking price, but the he had to be greedy. Ever watch that TV game show "Deal or No Deal"? Yep, greed.

[orsonroy]

Technically, EVERY sale is an auction, until a contract has been signed (and a "contract" includes cash in hand). Americans are NOT used to haggeling; we just plunk the sticker price down on the table and walk away. The only place we regularly haggle is at car dealers, and they'll definitely cut and run from a buyer if someone else offers $100 more (or even less, if you have cash). But most of the rest of the world has set pricing as haggling points from the dawn of time to today. Most large retailers would stare at you funny if you offered $5 more for the last toaster in the store, but they wouldn't say no out of hand. The would, generally, say no to $5 less.

But in a swap meet "bazaar" context, bid away. Most people do try to haggle down, but I've run across people who have actually handed me MORE for items at my sale table. I've also had bidding wars spontaneously erupt at my tables, and I encouraged them. Why? Because in the end it's MY wallet that matters!

[mikebonellisr]

I think that it was rude of you to interject yourself into thier discussion.If both parties were willing to settle on $3 after negotiation I think you should have butted out.
I dont think you would have done the same thing if you heard a similar conversation on a street corner....It was not you're business,it was'nt going to hurt anyone(except you not getting what you desired)....Now if it were a auction,that's a different story altogether.To me it just seems like a matter of courtesy

[waltersrails]

50/50 working with the action area i'm 50/50 on the issue

[icmr]

50/50.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid that I personally think everyone involved, was ethically in the wrong although technically no laws or rules were broken. IMO you were out of line to get involved until the original buyer's offer was (potentially) refused. As the original potential buyer I would have been pretty ticked off too, and would have courteously told you - and the dealer - so and why, then would have left. But the dealer was out of line in letting this turn into a bid situation, and the original potential purchaser was way out of line in getting so upset - hey, get over it and move on, this is just a hobby. The fact that this sort of haggling is standard operating procedure in many other parts of the world is irrelevant to me; it is NOT SOP in the fully developed economies.

[grayfox1119]

If this was an auction, then you were perfectly within your rights to bid. However, if the situation was a bargaining between the seller and the buyer as a private conversation, then if I interjected and turned it into an auction, then this is a whole different matter.
I don't see Train shows as an auction at these tables. I see a lot of individual potential buyers, looking for bargains, and trying to get the sellers to drop their prices. If there is ONE person trying to get the price lowered, haggling with the seller, I will wait my turn if interested. However, once three or more join the fun and it then turns into a bidding war, then all bets are off ( no pun intended ).
I can see the guy being upset, but to act like a spoiled child? He needed to go behind the woodshed, he is probably a guy that never heard the word NO as a kid.

[MAbruce]

Who was right? Seems to me that nobody was.

You weren’t right for butting in on a private transaction (as well as anyone else).
The dealer was not right for failing to honor the price he settled on with the original buyer.
The original buyer wasn’t right for throwing such a tantrum over it.

[wjstix]

I guess it depends on what exactly happened. If the guy picked up the box and said "I'll give you $3 for this" and the seller said "OK", then it was a done deal and there should have been no further 'bidding' involved from anyone. Since we rarely make written contracts for buying things at a flea market, someone's word is his bond.

However, if the guy said "I'll give you $3 for this" and before the seller answered you said "wait, I'll give you $7" then I think the seller would be OK to accept your offer or anyone elses.

That's how a free market works. You try to make the best deal you can, but once it's made you stick to it.

[outdoorsfellar]

Heck..... just to see that guy get bent out of shape would have been worth the price of admission !

[SilverSpike]

Wow! This is a dilemma I have never experienced, but I bet it happens more than we think. I especially like what orsonroy had to say on the issue. From a seller stand point I’m sure he was not ready to sell the box for $3.00, because the bottom line is it hurts the pocket book. My guess is that the seller was not really comfortable with selling the box for $3.00. And I also agree that price should be a starting point for negotiations, especially at a swap meet, or even a train show. Since I was not there, I can only guess that the guy was upset because he got him down in price by over 70%, and was ready to buy. Even if it was the last hour of the last day of the show and the seller was trying to dump all his goods, 70% is still a very large discount. Obviously the guy did not place enough of a value on the box of goods and took a risk at losing the deal, and he lost!

So, is a 70% reduction in price a realistic discount? Sure, the value of anything is based on what the buyer and demand is willing to pay, and you were willing to pay $8.00 for the stuff. A 20% discount is more realistic, huh! Done deal!

[bryanbell]

Its a free market and all but if the $3 price was accepted by the dealer then the dealer should have honored the deal and sold it to the original person. The original person wasn't being greedy, they were being business smart, negotiating to get the best price they could. The dealer could have said no but he didn't, he accepted the $3 offer.
Was it wrong to step in and try to offer more, not really. You have just as much of a right to secure the best deal you can. It was up to the dealer to say no and honor the original deal. As a matter of courtesy, I don't know if I would have wanted to step on the original persons toes by offering more but I don't think it would have be wrong to do it.
The original person going apes**t over not getting the deal is a little extreme. It was all over less than $10. Its understandable to be upset but in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a big deal.

Bryan

[fiatfan]

From the original purchasers viewpoint, how did he know whether you were maybe a plant so if the price got too low, you could bid it back up.

Just my [2c]

Tom

[brothaslide]

All this over $5 difference in price? I think it shows a lack of civility for all parties involved (buyers and seller).

[Don Gibson]

$10 for a box of cars? Couldn't be worth much. Probably was $10 a car.

To interupt a negotiation in progress was rude - like stepping in line ahead of someone. You should have waited your turn. How would you react if someone did that to you? Maybe punch 'em in the nose?

[jecorbett]

I am a big believer in free markets and what happened was a classic case of supply and demand at work. When only one person was interested in the box of cars, the seller was willing to let it go for $3. When 3 people got into the act, he realized the demand was higher and he ended up getting his asking price. It sounds like there were two winners and two losers in this deal. One man's loss was another man's game. It's a zero sum game.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I had an extra ticket for a big football game that was sold out. I wanted to get a good price for it but I didn't want to spend a lot of time outside the stadium trying to get top dollar for it either. I found a willing buyer and we were haggling over the price when a scalper came by and offered me more than the first buyer was willing to pay. He apparently had a better sense for what the ticket could sell for than I did. I sold the ticket to the scalper. The first buyer was unhappy because he wanted to see the game and didn't want to pay the going rate. I was happy because I got a what I thought was a good price for my ticket with a minimum of hassle. I could have held out for more but I would have risked getting to my seat late and possibly getting stuck having to unload the ticket at the last minute. All three of us were acting in our own self interest and that is what drives a capitalist society. It's the same principal regardless of the dollar amounts involved.

[spidge]

If it were me I would congradulate the first buyer on a good buy, then if there was a piece in the box I would make an offer to him for it. Remember the value for items differ from person to person. I would never undermine a buyer who gets a good deal. Most, not all the stuff at these show sales were bought many years ago and in some cases are worth more now.

I have seen this guy at three different shows in the last year and he always has this N_scale wooden caboose. The original price 15 years ago was probably 4.95 but he wants $20. I offer him $8 everytime I walk buy the table but the most he will come down is $15. Last time I saw him I asked him why he has not sold it yet, its been 9 months, but he wont give an anwser. I offer $8 (almost double what he got it for) but he still has not sold it.

[Anonymous]

Sorry,you where in the wrong here.

[Anonymous]

I'm leaning toward the "wrong" line here. I sure know I would be ticked had this happened to me. Not "pitch a three-year old fit" upset, but quite upset.

So congratulations on your profitable, yet immoral, purchase.

[Anonymous]

I would say you were wrong. If I were the "other guy" I would have asked you politely to mind your own. If that didn't work I'd make sure that everyone within earshot knew what a buttinsky you are.

[selector]

Suppose you see a person wrestling a log that had trapped a freshly killed rabbit. The trapping was accidental, but the person who had found the rabbit is obviously intent upon securing his next meal. Just as the person gets to the point where he can free the limp carcass, you reach into the space and grab it for yourself. When he asks you why you have usurped his catch, you reply that it was within your reach.

You were wrong.