Who's right ? ?

[IRONROOSTER]

I think the issue is: was the deal concluded? If it was, then additional offers should have been ignored. If the process was ongoing, then other people can step in and make offers. The haggler is trying to get it for less than the seller wants and if someone else will pay what the seller wants or closer to it, then they should get it.

Enjoy
Paul

[loathar]

Show admission-$10
Box of train junk-$10
Watching a guy blow his stack and get thrown out a train show-Priceless....

[oleirish]

IMHO I think you should have stayed out of it ,my 2cents worth!

JIM

[Pruitt]

Interesting. If I was the $3 guy and was still haggling, then somebody bid more out of the blue like that, I'd either up the ante or hand the new bidder the item and walk away, saying "Thanks anyway" to the seller.

If I was handing the guy the money and somebody jumped in and the seller reneged, then I'd be perturbed about it, but I'd just tell the seller to go do something with himself and still walk off. I certainly wouldn't start a shoving match because of it.

[dinwitty]

I agree its rather an open free market, do whatever, but I like to respect the other buyers, but I get in try to find what I want and make the purchase quick before others find out about it....I find sellers often drop prices to get rid of things. I feel for the guy who was getting a good deal and lost out tho. But I don't like that he made it more than a lost deal, but its easy to see you can get dissapointed when you lost out. I bought a Bowser Big Boy kit and I heard someone looked at it but passed it up, I found and bought it, then the guy came back and...oh dern....

I have been looking for the NKP products IC electric cars, once in a while they show up on EBAY, but they sell too high. I found a plan of them in the mag search and found the mag they were in on ebay. Bought the mag set and got the plans.
1943 MR, great shape. I will use them to build/kitba***hem. Thats a good deal.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: NOW was I wrong to interject on the transaction along with the other guy who bid? ?

You weren't unethical but the dealer was unethical for accepting a counter offer.

[bryanbell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by bryanbell

... he accepted the $3 offer.
Was it wrong to step in and try to offer more, not really. You have just as much of a right to secure the best deal you can. It was up to the dealer to say no and honor the original deal. As a matter of courtesy, ...
Bryan

I don't follow you. How can it be wrong (unethical) of the seller to renege on a deal, and for not the person offering to usurp the original negotiator's purchase...because that is what it was? Sort of like Evil shrugging and saying, "I only suggested that he (name the crime or sin).

I suppose that is the difference between a Utilitarian and a Deontologist. For the former, the end justifies the means, but for the latter, the means justify the end.

The original seller and the buyer were negotiating a purchase price and it was agreed upon. A deal was struck between the two, it should have been honored. The person offering a higher amount had nothing to do with the original negotiations. They are looking out for their own interests, they are trying to secure the purchase for what they perceive as a deal. Its not wrong to try to secure the best deal for yourself as long as you haven't already made a deal with someone else. In this case, the dealer sold the same item twice.
If the original $3 price wasn't agreed upon then none of this would be an issue. There would be no deal so the dealer could secure the best offer they could.

Bryan

[tatans]

I Usurped the box of cars ? ?---- does that make me the usurper ? ? now for the Oxford dictionary. ( I think we are running about 50 %) +- Spidge- I think you have the most reasonable and socially correct response, I must try and remember that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Suppose you see a person wrestling a log that had trapped a freshly killed rabbit. The trapping was accidental, but the person who had found the rabbit is obviously intent upon securing his next meal. Just as the person gets to the point where he can free the limp carcass, you reach into the space and grab it for yourself. When he asks you why you have usurped his catch, you reply that it was within your reach.

Geeze Crandall, don't you folks have butcher shops or grocery stores up there in B.C.? I hope you're not speaking from experience[;)]

[jacon12]

I would not even THINK of making an offer IF the seller and just agreed to the $3 offer. As far as I'm concerned the transaction was final at that point. Even if the seller was standing there thinking should he take the $3 offer or not, I wouldn't make an offer. If the seller had said no to the $3 offer I believe I'd have looked at the buyer and asked if he was going to raise his offer or not. If he had acted in any way that the answer was no, then I'd have made an offer.
I have to lean to the 'it was wrong' side on this one.
Jarrell

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bryanbell

... he accepted the $3 offer.
Was it wrong to step in and try to offer more, not really. You have just as much of a right to secure the best deal you can. It was up to the dealer to say no and honor the original deal. As a matter of courtesy, ...
Bryan

I don't follow you. How can it be wrong (unethical) of the seller to renege on a deal, and for not the person offering to usurp the original negotiator's purchase...because that is what it was? Sort of like Evil shrugging and saying, "I only suggested that he (name the crime or sin).

I suppose that is the difference between a Utilitarian and a Deontologist. For the former, the end justifies the means, but for the latter, the means justify the end.

[selector]

Suppose you see a person wrestling a log that had trapped a freshly killed rabbit. The trapping was accidental, but the person who had found the rabbit is obviously intent upon securing his next meal. Just as the person gets to the point where he can free the limp carcass, you reach into the space and grab it for yourself. When he asks you why you have usurped his catch, you reply that it was within your reach.

You were wrong.

[Anonymous]

I would say you were wrong. If I were the "other guy" I would have asked you politely to mind your own. If that didn't work I'd make sure that everyone within earshot knew what a buttinsky you are.

[Anonymous]

I'm leaning toward the "wrong" line here. I sure know I would be ticked had this happened to me. Not "pitch a three-year old fit" upset, but quite upset.

So congratulations on your profitable, yet immoral, purchase.

[Anonymous]

Sorry,you where in the wrong here.

[spidge]

If it were me I would congradulate the first buyer on a good buy, then if there was a piece in the box I would make an offer to him for it. Remember the value for items differ from person to person. I would never undermine a buyer who gets a good deal. Most, not all the stuff at these show sales were bought many years ago and in some cases are worth more now.

I have seen this guy at three different shows in the last year and he always has this N_scale wooden caboose. The original price 15 years ago was probably 4.95 but he wants $20. I offer him $8 everytime I walk buy the table but the most he will come down is $15. Last time I saw him I asked him why he has not sold it yet, its been 9 months, but he wont give an anwser. I offer $8 (almost double what he got it for) but he still has not sold it.

[jecorbett]

I am a big believer in free markets and what happened was a classic case of supply and demand at work. When only one person was interested in the box of cars, the seller was willing to let it go for $3. When 3 people got into the act, he realized the demand was higher and he ended up getting his asking price. It sounds like there were two winners and two losers in this deal. One man's loss was another man's game. It's a zero sum game.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I had an extra ticket for a big football game that was sold out. I wanted to get a good price for it but I didn't want to spend a lot of time outside the stadium trying to get top dollar for it either. I found a willing buyer and we were haggling over the price when a scalper came by and offered me more than the first buyer was willing to pay. He apparently had a better sense for what the ticket could sell for than I did. I sold the ticket to the scalper. The first buyer was unhappy because he wanted to see the game and didn't want to pay the going rate. I was happy because I got a what I thought was a good price for my ticket with a minimum of hassle. I could have held out for more but I would have risked getting to my seat late and possibly getting stuck having to unload the ticket at the last minute. All three of us were acting in our own self interest and that is what drives a capitalist society. It's the same principal regardless of the dollar amounts involved.

[Don Gibson]

$10 for a box of cars? Couldn't be worth much. Probably was $10 a car.

To interupt a negotiation in progress was rude - like stepping in line ahead of someone. You should have waited your turn. How would you react if someone did that to you? Maybe punch 'em in the nose?

[brothaslide]

All this over $5 difference in price? I think it shows a lack of civility for all parties involved (buyers and seller).

[fiatfan]

From the original purchasers viewpoint, how did he know whether you were maybe a plant so if the price got too low, you could bid it back up.

Just my [2c]

Tom

[bryanbell]

Its a free market and all but if the $3 price was accepted by the dealer then the dealer should have honored the deal and sold it to the original person. The original person wasn't being greedy, they were being business smart, negotiating to get the best price they could. The dealer could have said no but he didn't, he accepted the $3 offer.
Was it wrong to step in and try to offer more, not really. You have just as much of a right to secure the best deal you can. It was up to the dealer to say no and honor the original deal. As a matter of courtesy, I don't know if I would have wanted to step on the original persons toes by offering more but I don't think it would have be wrong to do it.
The original person going apes**t over not getting the deal is a little extreme. It was all over less than $10. Its understandable to be upset but in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a big deal.

Bryan

[SilverSpike]

Wow! This is a dilemma I have never experienced, but I bet it happens more than we think. I especially like what orsonroy had to say on the issue. From a seller stand point I’m sure he was not ready to sell the box for $3.00, because the bottom line is it hurts the pocket book. My guess is that the seller was not really comfortable with selling the box for $3.00. And I also agree that price should be a starting point for negotiations, especially at a swap meet, or even a train show. Since I was not there, I can only guess that the guy was upset because he got him down in price by over 70%, and was ready to buy. Even if it was the last hour of the last day of the show and the seller was trying to dump all his goods, 70% is still a very large discount. Obviously the guy did not place enough of a value on the box of goods and took a risk at losing the deal, and he lost!

So, is a 70% reduction in price a realistic discount? Sure, the value of anything is based on what the buyer and demand is willing to pay, and you were willing to pay $8.00 for the stuff. A 20% discount is more realistic, huh! Done deal!

[outdoorsfellar]

Heck..... just to see that guy get bent out of shape would have been worth the price of admission !

[wjstix]

I guess it depends on what exactly happened. If the guy picked up the box and said "I'll give you $3 for this" and the seller said "OK", then it was a done deal and there should have been no further 'bidding' involved from anyone. Since we rarely make written contracts for buying things at a flea market, someone's word is his bond.

However, if the guy said "I'll give you $3 for this" and before the seller answered you said "wait, I'll give you $7" then I think the seller would be OK to accept your offer or anyone elses.

That's how a free market works. You try to make the best deal you can, but once it's made you stick to it.

[MAbruce]

Who was right? Seems to me that nobody was.

You weren’t right for butting in on a private transaction (as well as anyone else).
The dealer was not right for failing to honor the price he settled on with the original buyer.
The original buyer wasn’t right for throwing such a tantrum over it.

[grayfox1119]

If this was an auction, then you were perfectly within your rights to bid. However, if the situation was a bargaining between the seller and the buyer as a private conversation, then if I interjected and turned it into an auction, then this is a whole different matter.
I don't see Train shows as an auction at these tables. I see a lot of individual potential buyers, looking for bargains, and trying to get the sellers to drop their prices. If there is ONE person trying to get the price lowered, haggling with the seller, I will wait my turn if interested. However, once three or more join the fun and it then turns into a bidding war, then all bets are off ( no pun intended ).
I can see the guy being upset, but to act like a spoiled child? He needed to go behind the woodshed, he is probably a guy that never heard the word NO as a kid.

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid that I personally think everyone involved, was ethically in the wrong although technically no laws or rules were broken. IMO you were out of line to get involved until the original buyer's offer was (potentially) refused. As the original potential buyer I would have been pretty ticked off too, and would have courteously told you - and the dealer - so and why, then would have left. But the dealer was out of line in letting this turn into a bid situation, and the original potential purchaser was way out of line in getting so upset - hey, get over it and move on, this is just a hobby. The fact that this sort of haggling is standard operating procedure in many other parts of the world is irrelevant to me; it is NOT SOP in the fully developed economies.

[icmr]

50/50.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[waltersrails]

50/50 working with the action area i'm 50/50 on the issue