Powering Tenders

[joseph2]

I read that Atlas code 100 turnouts have a frog that is too high.It may Lift the engine up off the rail and cause a stall.

[joseph2]

I read that Atlas code 100 turnouts have a frog that is too high.It may Lift the engine up off the rail and cause a stall.

[cacole]

Another source of trouble that needs to be checked out is wheel flanges. If your locomotives have deep wheel flanges they could be causing the locomotive wheels to be lifted off of the rail as they pass through the frog. I have ran into this problem with some Rivarossi HO scale locomotives before they started using RP-25 contour wheel flanges. So-called European wheel flanges are so big that Rivarossi locomotives would not go through an Atlas turnout. Peco turnouts are the best because they have deep flangeways for these European wheel flanges, if you're modeling in HO scale.

[cacole]

Another source of trouble that needs to be checked out is wheel flanges. If your locomotives have deep wheel flanges they could be causing the locomotive wheels to be lifted off of the rail as they pass through the frog. I have ran into this problem with some Rivarossi HO scale locomotives before they started using RP-25 contour wheel flanges. So-called European wheel flanges are so big that Rivarossi locomotives would not go through an Atlas turnout. Peco turnouts are the best because they have deep flangeways for these European wheel flanges, if you're modeling in HO scale.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BR60103

Glen: 3 suggestions.
Use 1 microswitch to power a relay with many poles.
Use a switch machine with built-in switches (tortoise, twincoils)
Use a slide switch under the roadbed with a wire from it to move the points and another as the control.

Thanks for the suggests, but have been through these. Need a system controlled by direct fingerforce to the points rather than by separate electric or mechanical controls or linkages. That lets out #2 and 3. #1 i recently tried a method with a tiny low power sensor 1x3x4mm that is activated by the throwbar, controls relays with a transistor amplifier. The problem with relays is that for battery powered railroads (small and portable) the relay coils waste battery energy. Currently working on a system using pulsed latching relays to conserve batteries, but not finished yet. The N scale Pecos will hold against 3 microswitches each rated at 25 grams activating force, but it's close to their limit and adjustment is finicky. Also the linkage (brass rod in styrene tube bushing) is subject to dirt contamination and sticking, found this out the hard way after a scenicing session.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BR60103

Glen: 3 suggestions.
Use 1 microswitch to power a relay with many poles.
Use a switch machine with built-in switches (tortoise, twincoils)
Use a slide switch under the roadbed with a wire from it to move the points and another as the control.

Thanks for the suggests, but have been through these. Need a system controlled by direct fingerforce to the points rather than by separate electric or mechanical controls or linkages. That lets out #2 and 3. #1 i recently tried a method with a tiny low power sensor 1x3x4mm that is activated by the throwbar, controls relays with a transistor amplifier. The problem with relays is that for battery powered railroads (small and portable) the relay coils waste battery energy. Currently working on a system using pulsed latching relays to conserve batteries, but not finished yet. The N scale Pecos will hold against 3 microswitches each rated at 25 grams activating force, but it's close to their limit and adjustment is finicky. Also the linkage (brass rod in styrene tube bushing) is subject to dirt contamination and sticking, found this out the hard way after a scenicing session.

[BR60103]

Trynnallen
There have been lots of articles on adding tender pickups. It depends on how your tender trucks and wheels are made (metal, plastic)
You can make "shoes" from a T-shaped piece of phosphor bronze or nickle silver, screw it on the truck so that it sits between the wheels that don't pick up. Bend it down so that it rubs on the rail without lifting the tender, and bend the part that runs on the rails so the ends slant up and won't catch in rail joints. Oh yes, run a very flexible wire to the locomotive.

[BR60103]

Trynnallen
There have been lots of articles on adding tender pickups. It depends on how your tender trucks and wheels are made (metal, plastic)
You can make "shoes" from a T-shaped piece of phosphor bronze or nickle silver, screw it on the truck so that it sits between the wheels that don't pick up. Bend it down so that it rubs on the rail without lifting the tender, and bend the part that runs on the rails so the ends slant up and won't catch in rail joints. Oh yes, run a very flexible wire to the locomotive.

[BR60103]

Glen: 3 suggestions.
Use 1 microswitch to power a relay with many poles.
Use a switch machine with built-in switches (tortoise, twincoils)
Use a slide switch under the roadbed with a wire from it to move the points and another as the control.

[BR60103]

Glen: 3 suggestions.
Use 1 microswitch to power a relay with many poles.
Use a switch machine with built-in switches (tortoise, twincoils)
Use a slide switch under the roadbed with a wire from it to move the points and another as the control.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trynnallen

.
I would also be intrested in trying to figure out how to power my points on my turnouts as that would also help solve the problem.

Are the frogs insulated or 'live'?
Do you have manual or remote turnout throw?

Solder power-feed wires to each point rail near the hinge on the point side of the hinge, put a large enough hole in the benchwork to handle the slight movement of the wire when the turnout is thrown. Use these to feed power to the points. This routes power around potential bad contact areas such as the points to to stock rails or point rail hinges. If live frog tie these wires to a wire connected to the frog or a rail leaving the frog. if dead frog connect them to their adjacent stock rail wires. If remote controlled you may be able to get a SPDT switch that installs on the turnout motor (ie Peco, Tortoise etc) to route power. If manual controlled a wire linkage from the throwbar to an under table microswitch can route the power to the points.

I had this problem too, now use under table microswitches linked to my Peco N scale manual turnout throwbars. One microswitch works fine for frog and point powering, but am trying to get up to 3 microswitches to work. This allows reverse power routing - powering the diverging routes from separate cabs lets the points select which cab control powers the track leading away from the points. Have been able to eliminate the control panel with this method. But the N scale Peco just barely has enough spring force to hold 3 microswitches at 25 grams force each. Am working on another method for multipole auxiliary contacts that does not require a wire linkage yet still provides all the switching features, and can be installed after-the-fact on existing layouts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trynnallen

.
I would also be intrested in trying to figure out how to power my points on my turnouts as that would also help solve the problem.

Are the frogs insulated or 'live'?
Do you have manual or remote turnout throw?

Solder power-feed wires to each point rail near the hinge on the point side of the hinge, put a large enough hole in the benchwork to handle the slight movement of the wire when the turnout is thrown. Use these to feed power to the points. This routes power around potential bad contact areas such as the points to to stock rails or point rail hinges. If live frog tie these wires to a wire connected to the frog or a rail leaving the frog. if dead frog connect them to their adjacent stock rail wires. If remote controlled you may be able to get a SPDT switch that installs on the turnout motor (ie Peco, Tortoise etc) to route power. If manual controlled a wire linkage from the throwbar to an under table microswitch can route the power to the points.

I had this problem too, now use under table microswitches linked to my Peco N scale manual turnout throwbars. One microswitch works fine for frog and point powering, but am trying to get up to 3 microswitches to work. This allows reverse power routing - powering the diverging routes from separate cabs lets the points select which cab control powers the track leading away from the points. Have been able to eliminate the control panel with this method. But the N scale Peco just barely has enough spring force to hold 3 microswitches at 25 grams force each. Am working on another method for multipole auxiliary contacts that does not require a wire linkage yet still provides all the switching features, and can be installed after-the-fact on existing layouts.

[Anonymous]

Thinking on it now I realize that my post of "Powered tenders" wasn't quite accurate. I would like to add not another drive, but pick up shoes into the trucks on my tenders. The problem is ONLY on turnouts. The engines have no problem anywhere else on the layout, its only on the turnouts.

I have 2 Bachmann Silver 2-8-0's and an Athearn 2-8-2 that I would like to modify so thier wheels pick up power.

My drive wheels are clean, my drive rods have free motion in thier alotted paths, and the bushings are fine, and the rail is spotless.

I would also be intrested in trying to figure out how to power my points on my turnouts as that would also help solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

Thinking on it now I realize that my post of "Powered tenders" wasn't quite accurate. I would like to add not another drive, but pick up shoes into the trucks on my tenders. The problem is ONLY on turnouts. The engines have no problem anywhere else on the layout, its only on the turnouts.

I have 2 Bachmann Silver 2-8-0's and an Athearn 2-8-2 that I would like to modify so thier wheels pick up power.

My drive wheels are clean, my drive rods have free motion in thier alotted paths, and the bushings are fine, and the rail is spotless.

I would also be intrested in trying to figure out how to power my points on my turnouts as that would also help solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

What brand of engines are they? Have you checked your drive wheels and drive rods to make sure they arent binding?
Sounds to me like you need power pick ups tho, not powered tenders

[Anonymous]

What brand of engines are they? Have you checked your drive wheels and drive rods to make sure they arent binding?
Sounds to me like you need power pick ups tho, not powered tenders

[Anonymous]

Trynnallen;

If your problem is mainly on turnouts, are the point rails getting power properly? If their power depends only on contact to the stock rails this is a spot that gets very bad for trapped dirt and results in poor to no electrical contact and the point rails are 'dead'. Clean by dragging a small piece of folded (double sided) 600 to 1000 grit sandpaper from an auto parts shop between the closed points and stock rails. If this is your case, there are other ways to power the point rails independently depending on whether you have live frogs or insulated frogs (which are worse for stalling than live frogs as one pickup wheel is momentarily isolated by the frog insulation).

Other problems could be dirt buildup in the locomotive wheel bushings or wiper contacts if used; this also will interrupt the flow of electric current between wheels and motor. If all wheels on a rail happen to lose contact at the same time the loco will stall anywhere. Dis-assemble the wheels and clean out the axles, bushings, and wipers with rubbing alcohol; then re-lubricate and re-assemble.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Trynnallen;

If your problem is mainly on turnouts, are the point rails getting power properly? If their power depends only on contact to the stock rails this is a spot that gets very bad for trapped dirt and results in poor to no electrical contact and the point rails are 'dead'. Clean by dragging a small piece of folded (double sided) 600 to 1000 grit sandpaper from an auto parts shop between the closed points and stock rails. If this is your case, there are other ways to power the point rails independently depending on whether you have live frogs or insulated frogs (which are worse for stalling than live frogs as one pickup wheel is momentarily isolated by the frog insulation).

Other problems could be dirt buildup in the locomotive wheel bushings or wiper contacts if used; this also will interrupt the flow of electric current between wheels and motor. If all wheels on a rail happen to lose contact at the same time the loco will stall anywhere. Dis-assemble the wheels and clean out the axles, bushings, and wipers with rubbing alcohol; then re-lubricate and re-assemble.

Good luck!

[dknelson]

Somewhere in the index is an article about adding pickup shoes -- like you see in large scale.
Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

Somewhere in the index is an article about adding pickup shoes -- like you see in large scale.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

The tenders have motors in them and pu***he loco. Tyco and AHM use to make them that way, maybe others too, I don't know for sure.

[Anonymous]

The tenders have motors in them and pu***he loco. Tyco and AHM use to make them that way, maybe others too, I don't know for sure.

[Anonymous]

Are you talking powering tenders as in putting motors in them, or powering tenders as in adding electrical pickups to their wheels?

[Anonymous]

Are you talking powering tenders as in putting motors in them, or powering tenders as in adding electrical pickups to their wheels?

[Anonymous]

You can try impoving the # of wheels that pick up power. If you can scratch build you could buy a small Athearn unit (sw7) and modify it to fit in a tender. The truck frames would be the hard part,but you could sand them down and glue on the old tender frames to cover them. I did this with an old AHM 2-8-0 that had a poor quality powered tender that stalled all the time at turnouts. It fixed that problem but exposed a new undiscovered problem. The dang thing now derailed in turnouts and I couldn't get it to stop. I fixed the stall but found the underlying cause was a tracking problem that I never could fix.

[Anonymous]

You can try impoving the # of wheels that pick up power. If you can scratch build you could buy a small Athearn unit (sw7) and modify it to fit in a tender. The truck frames would be the hard part,but you could sand them down and glue on the old tender frames to cover them. I did this with an old AHM 2-8-0 that had a poor quality powered tender that stalled all the time at turnouts. It fixed that problem but exposed a new undiscovered problem. The dang thing now derailed in turnouts and I couldn't get it to stop. I fixed the stall but found the underlying cause was a tracking problem that I never could fix.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget CLEAN loco wheels besides the install

[Anonymous]

Don't forget CLEAN loco wheels besides the install

[Anonymous]

AnthonyT. If that brass were any brighter or the nickel silver any shiner, I would have to wear shades.

The first time I asked about this I was told essentially the same thing, so I went around the layout with a rubber eraser and other solvents and by the time it was done the track gleamed. I have since kept it that way (its gotten easier as I have replaced much of the Brass). BUT!, and there is always a but, I have still had the problem of my turnouts.

I wouldn't be as concerned with this, but all of my diesels and my electrics have NO problem tracking over them. My steam on the other hand gets about 1/3 of the way through the turnout and stalls.