Rapido Trains

[Anonymous]

hey everyone

I was looking at buying some of their passengar cars in VIA. They seem pricy and there being run by Hobbycraft.
Can I justify 60 for a passenger instead 35 for a walthers VIA car?

Does anyone have any past Rapiod models?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

The highly detailed inside and out Rapido passenger cars aren't out yet, later this year. As to the value, get what you want. If Walthers cars suit your needs, then spend your money on them.

Bob Boudreau

[Paul3]

Just be advised that Rapido Trains has tried to "fix" prices on these new cars by threatening not to sell any of their products to anyone who sells them for less than Rapido Trains wants them sold for (this is illegal).

After the little uproar this caused over on a Canadian Yahoo! group that Rapido owns, Rapido then instituted a "MAP" policy (minimum advertised price), which, while legal, is IMHO a questionable practice. Essentially, what it means is that if you are an authorized dealer, you can't advertise a price lower than Rapido lets you. However, you can still sell it for less, and you can give out lower prices over the phone. You just can't advertise it.

After instituting the MAP policy, Rapido then "locked" the discussion threads in question by rejecting any more comments about it.

As far as past Rapido models...I don't think there have been any. That Turbo Train has been in the works for years, and so far, it's nothing but vaporware. They advertise an LRC and coaches...but they aren't out either. About the only thing I found on their website for actual sale was decals.

So far, Rapido has attempted to fix prices and silence critics, all while promising the highest in quality while delivering very little.

Hey, if Rapido has a heckuva a year and releases these new passenger cars, the LRC and coaches, and the Turbo (all due 2006, according to them), and everything lives up to it's billing, then I'll be cheering for them. I'll probably even buy the New Haven Turbo version. But for the moment, they are just another vaporware provider AFAIK.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[jrbernier]

Paul,

This is not illegal in several states. 'Fair Trade' pricing laws used to be very common. PFM and may of the brass importers used to hold their dealers to a standard price. As you mentioned, MAP pricing is very commom. Many of the DCC manufacturers have a MAP price policy. That is why you will see magazine ads with 'Call First' for the price. There are many electronics items that are MAP as well. Usually competition will force an end to these policies. For a company with no track record, I do find it rather strange that they are trying to control pricing and their internet group site. Nothing against Canadians, but the hobby industry in Canada seems to like supporting MSRP - Something that south of the border has virtually collapsed. Back in the 70's, I had Canadian modeler freinds who would ship an old Tyco engine to a US hobby shop for 'repair', and get back a nice shiny 'brass' engine!

Jim

[csmith9474]

I noticed that these cars are Canadian prototypes and Rapido is decorating them in all these fantasy paint schemes. I just dont understand why they are putting out such nice cars and throwing any arbitrary paint scheme on them. With the kind of work they put into them, you would think they could at least produce a prototype specific car for the roadnames they are painting them in.

[Anonymous]

interesting opinions here... Whatever you may think of it, I think it's very cool to try and enter the HO rr market with a quality product. I've ordered 2 sleepers and a coach, at modeltrains.com, downpayment of $10 each. Asked about the status of the production and date of delivery, got almost instant reply:

"As per my latest conversation with Rapido Trains, a revised
pre-production model is expected within the next month. The first group
of production models, factory painted for CNR and VIA are expected in
late July. The other roads will follow thereafter."
As modeltrains.com is a business I trust, this sounds reassuring enough for me.

csmith are you sure about the paint schemes? That would be a bummer, (though as long as I dont mention it to my wife it'll be allright, heh) well maybe I dont even want to know. Maybe an indication was that the road number of the NYC coach was in the same series, really just a couple numbers away, as Rivarossi's NYC 44-seat coach which i happen to own but that couldve been coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Yep, our Canadian hobby stores love to charge you through the nose :) Even online hobby stores (all 2 of them) [:D]
They are in a constant denial state. I am just grateful that US is right beside us. I hear in Australia things are just as bad pricing-wise as in Canada and I pity folks there.

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dothinker

interesting opinions here... Whatever you may think of it, I think it's very cool to try and enter the HO rr market with a quality product. I've ordered 2 sleepers and a coach, at modeltrains.com, downpayment of $10 each. Asked about the status of the production and date of delivery, got almost instant reply:

"As per my latest conversation with Rapido Trains, a revised
pre-production model is expected within the next month. The first group
of production models, factory painted for CNR and VIA are expected in
late July. The other roads will follow thereafter."
As modeltrains.com is a business I trust, this sounds reassuring enough for me.

csmith are you sure about the paint schemes? That would be a bummer, (though as long as I dont mention it to my wife it'll be allright, heh) well maybe I dont even want to know. Maybe an indication was that the road number of the NYC coach was in the same series, really just a couple numbers away, as Rivarossi's NYC 44-seat coach which i happen to own but that couldve been coincidence.

I wouldn't sweat it. They are great looking cars, and well detailed for the price. If they work for you, what the heck. I think they will work just fine for your NYC pax trains.

Don't mind me anyhow. I am one of those rivet couters, but just on my own models. I recently told somebody that basically I could care less if you ran a gas turbine painted in D&H colors with a string of Superliners painted for the ACL.

I hope you enjoy your new passenger equipment!![:)]

[Anonymous]

I'll keep ya posted if and when they arrive. What's a "NYC pax train"?

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dothinker

I'll keep ya posted if and when they arrive. What's a "NYC pax train"?

Sorry about that. "Pax" is military for passenger.

[Anonymous]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate the detail on the Rapido cars a 10, the Walthers new Empire Builder cars a 6.  I don't have a BLI car to compare against, so I can't rate them.  I own around 9 of the Rapido cars.  As a Manufacturing Engineer, I talked to Rapido several times about several manufacturing problems they have, such as the tight fitting batteries, the dirt inside my cars, the paint job and other things.  About 50% of my light systems were broken.  I fixed them myself.  They seemed interested in correcting the defects.  However, the $60 price is extremely steep.  I mean they are made in China where Labor is dirt cheep.  So they must be rolling in money to charge these high prices.  I would like to see the cars and homes the people at Rapido live in.  I am sure that they are lot better than the standard average middle class home.  However, I do buy my Rapido cars from both the internet and my LHS.  They both give me great discounts.  So if you want the Rapido products, shop around.  If someone is going to charge me the full retail price they are asking, then I will stop buying the cars from them.  The products are nice but not $60 nice.

[Repairman87]

I got two Illionis Central coaches and was amazed at first of the detail.  Upon closer inspection I was disappointed the the paints schemes they picked.  The colors are no where near what they should be.

Also the grabirons where not painted and honestly not sure if they where even glued inplace as they all wiggle around.

They are great looking cars but with paint colors that are not even in the ball park why bother laying out that kind of cash.

[whitman500]

I have 1 NP passenger car from Rapido and 3 more on order.  The interiors are meaningfully superior to Walthers with different color seats and doors in the sleeping compartments and better detailed end doors (e.g, gates).  They also have the grab irons installed (with Walthers you have to do this yourself).  I've found them for $50 which is $10 more than Walthers.

On the downside, for NP the color scheme is very different than the other products on the market.  To be fair, it is closer to prototype based on photos I have but it means your train won't match any of the available engines.  Also, the sides of my car did not fit tightly and I will likely have to glue them which is less than ideal.

As for this whole brouhaha about price fixing, I'm not sure why people are getting so upset.  It's just business and is neither illegal nor unethical.  After all, they're selling a consumer product for which a number of substitutes exist (Walthers, IHC, Con-cor, etc.).  Anti-monopoly laws were never meant to apply to these types of products.  If you don't like the price, don't buy it. 

[lvanhen]

I have 2 Rapido cars in UP paint.  There have been previous discussions about the color.  No 2 prototype cars will be the same color 2 or 3 years into their life!!  As far as detail - nothing I've seen beats them!!  As far as price - I have to feel sorry for you Canadians - I've paid about $45 each for mine at my LHS in northern NJ (don't want to give their name in case the Rapido Police are watching!!!)  Great cars - great detail - great lighting system - what else do you want?

[Anonymous]

I ordered three sight unseen and two more later.

They should be coming out with the 10-5's and Cafe-Bar-Car in June at some point. So much for the April ETA.

[Daniel1975]

I have bought me 7 C&NW Coaches & Sleepers and I already have sold them over eBay!

I was really disappointed in these models and will not buy a Rapido car again; the paint job was not worth a dime; the whole model was looking like it had been in service for 20 years.

The highly detailed body and interior actually is nothing special when comparing to European models - so they really can't make a point there.

I also think that the plastic they use for the models is very cheap and may cause some problems too. It's very difficult to find the exact words to describe it but man was I disappointed.

They advertised the cars as the next best thing to Brass - the models carry a list price of almost $60 (some dealers were selling them for as low as $35) which is extremely pricey.  I mean even at $35 these cars were not worth the money.

I don't know if the newer runs are improved but I won't pre-order Rapido models again; I would need to see and run them before purchasing.  

[Daniel1975]

I have 7 in Ontario Northland's newer paint and 4 in the Ontario Northland's older paint scheme.  These things are the best detailed passenger cars made, period.  They are expensive but if you want the detail then you need to buy them.  Just to compare, hobby shops up here in Canada sell Walthers VIA Rail Budd cars for 50 bucks, thats if you can find them.  Now compare a Rapido car to a Walthers car, Its like comparing a Ferrari to a VW Beetle.  I'll pay the extra 10 bucks for the Rapido car. 

 

I still think that the Broadway Limited California Zephyr cars were a better product than the Rapido models. Sure they also carry a high retail price but if one wants a highly detailed model then you have to pay for that exactness.

 

[Midnight Railroader]

For a company with no track record, I do find it rather strange that they are trying to control pricing and their internet group site.

Are we talking Arnold Rapido here?

[Midnight Railroader]

As for this whole brouhaha about price fixing, I'm not sure why people are getting so upset.  It's just business and is neither illegal

Actually, yes, it is.

[RedGrey62]

Seems a lot of folks want to compare the Rapido cars to the BLI CZ cars and make the CZ cars some sort of standard.  I have some of the CZ cars that I am using for a basis for a Denver Zephyr consist.  While they are nice, they have a slightly golden tint to them when they are run with other manufacturer's Bud cars.  At some point, I will be stripping them, making small modifications and repainting them using Alclad.  We can always find stuff wrong.

Even though I model the CB&Q, which owned no lightweight cars other than Budd, I will be getting a few of the Rapido cars to represent the foreign road cars, mainly sleepers, that showed up time to time on Q passenger trains.

And compared to RTR freight car prices, 60 dollars is okay for a highly detailed passenger car.

Rick

[Anonymous]

Here is a conversation (through email) that I had with Rapido Customer Service. It was the most expensive rolling stock I had purchased, but I didn't mind because I had the impression it was a top quality item. : 

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:13 AM

Subject: CN Emperor Sleeper(101014 CNR Gr/Blk PS E series 4-8-4 Duplex Sleeper 'EMPEROR' $59.99)

Hi,

My wife just bought me this sleeper car as a gift. I was checking it out last and I found the coupler on one end is very low. So low that it it doesn't attach to another coupler very well. I tried about a half dozen cars and engines to see what was going on. On one end the coupler linked just fine to whatever I tried. The other end was too low.

Is there a way to adjust this, or is a design issue ?

Thanks,

Albert Elms, Halifax, Nova Scotia

 

Hi Albert,

Thanks for your email, and I'm sorry about your car. The issue with the low coupler at one end stems from the packaging being too tight at that end of the car. We will be redesigning the packaging on our upcoming runs of our cars to prevent this from happening again.

It is not a difficult fix by any means, but it does involve taking the car apart. If you don't feel comfortable doing this then you can send it back to me, and I will repair the car and send it back to you in perfect condition, and will send you a bunch of batteries to help cover the cost of shipping the car to us and the hassle.

Thanks again, and please let me know if you would like to take up on this.

Regards, 

Dan Garcia

Customer Service Manager, Rapido Trains Inc.

 

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:27 AM

Subject: Re: CN Emperor Sleeper

How would I go about fixing the problem ?

 

Hi Albert,

The best way that I've found so far involves stripping the roof, sides, interior and trucks off of the underframe, holding the warped part over a boiling kettle or pot for a very short period of time (10 seconds - just long enough for the plastic to get warm), and then bending and holding the underframe until it cools and holds its shape straight.

This is by no means the only way...if the warp is not too bad, you could bend it while cold. One of our customers suggested cutting a small slot into the centre sill of the underframe (the two girders that travel along the centre from end to end) and then gluing in a slightly wider strip of styrene in the slot to lengthen the centre sill and straighten it. I haven't tried this method yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Thanks again, and regards,

Dan Garcia

Customer Service Manager,Rapido Trains Inc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anonymous]

That low huh?

I say ship it to him and let them heat and bend it. That way if the car fails they can send you a new one.

[Repairman87]

  I would have to agree with Safety Valve on that one.  If it breaks in thier hands they can figure it out.

 

Good Luck.i

[Paul3]

whitman500,
Um, price fixing is very illegal.  The law is there to protect us, the consumers.  These laws must apply equally to everyone.  It doesn't make any difference if Ford tells your local dealer that they must sell the car for $21,863.52 or if Gem tells your local drug store must sell razor blades for $.99 ea.  It's why we have MSRP: Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.  They can "suggest" any price they want, but if I owned a hobby shop, no manufacturer can force me to sell at any price other than what I want to sell them for.

Over a year ago (note how old this thread is), someone on the Canadian Modelers e-Mail list (that the Rapido owner runs) said that his LHS was going to sell the upcoming Rapido passenger cars for something like 50% off MSRP.  The Rapido and list owner replied with words to the effect of, "If he does, he'll never get anything from Rapido ever again."  This set off a hubbub as numerous posters pointed out that it was illegal to force a retailer to sell at MSRP by withholding product.  Not too far into it, further discussion was blocked by the list owner.

Rapido, to their credit, saw the error of their ways, and stopped threatening retailers.  Instead they did what they could do legally, which means they started a "MAP" policy (or Minimum Advertised Price).  This means that no retailer can advertise these products for less than a certain percentage of MSRP, which IIRC is around 20% to 25% off MSRP.  Several other hobby companies do this like Tony's Train eXchange, NCE, etc.  Fortunately for us, the consumer, retailers can still sell these for less than that, but they just can't advertise it.

Back to the point I made back when this thread was new, obviously Rapido can no longer be considered a "vaporware" provider.  These new passenger cars are very nice, indeed (I just don't like how they feel so flimsy with the car sides not being attached to the floor).  And I saw the Turbos at Philly this past summer, and I was very impressed.  At least 3 or 4 are going to bought by my fellow club members, so I expect to be seeing a lot of them.

Rapido is to be commended for bringing out a superior product to the market.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[whitman500]

Paul:

Illegal price fixing is when two competitors agree to charge the same price (e.g., Walthers and Rapido agree to charge the same price for their passenger cars).  This is not what Rapido was doing.  Rather, they were simply trying to maintain their resale price by refusing to deal with resellers that aggressively discounted their product.  I went to the Federal Trade Commission website and found this:

"The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer's resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a "take it or leave it" basis."

Here is the link as well:

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/compguide/illegal.htm

I did read that original thread about Rapido's policies (and argued back then that they were not illegal) and based on the paragraph above it seems like they were perfectly within their rights to withhold product from resellers that were aggressively discounting their product. 

Generally speaking, anti-trust enforcement cases are decided on the basis of "rule of reason."  This requires the court to evaluate whether consumers are actually harmed by the manufacturer's policies before taking legal action against them.  As I noted in my original post, given the wide range of competitors to Rapido and the non-essential nature of the product, I would think you would have a hard time proving that consumers were harmed by what they were doing.

[MRAMTRAK]

I have eight of the CNR green/black scheme, four in the CPR "wine red" scheme and my friend has five of the Northern Pacific two-tone green scheme.  All I can say is these cars are gorgeous, and certainly priced competitively with Walther's and Branchline cars.

Dave

[coborn35]

Jason Shron seems to me like a very good guy. I get a kick out of people ripping on him about paint and handling, when they have not taken time to either read his posts on the matter on our forum nor check the website for news.

[Anonymous]

Has there been any updated Rapido trains lately?

[csmith9474]

Has there been any updated Rapido trains lately?

Looks to still be the same Canadian prototypes painted in fantasy paint schemes. I was hoping they would get away from that.

[RicHamilton]

Looks to still be the same Canadian prototypes painted in fantasy paint schemes. I was hoping they would get away from that.

Now that is funny!Those of us north of the the 49th parallel have been putting up with that for eons.  Nice to see the tables turned for once