Backdrops: A New and Simple Approach

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter

[^] [tup]
Great idea.

The only problem I see is with Home Depot. If it's sold out they wont reorder any more. That's the way of big box stores. They buy a mass quantity and if it doesn't sell fast enough, they drop the product.

We need to find out where Home Depot buys these channels or who makes them. Maybe we can find other suppliers or buy direct from the manufacturer.

I wouldn't worry about the availability of this product, Tuff Built is carried by many others. Other manufacturers also supply a version of this for their 1/4" vinyl lattice panels.
Bob K.

[mondotrains]

Guys,
I just wanted to make sure you all got the following message I put up in response to another reply above. I talked with the national distributor representative for Tuff-Bilt products this morning and he said that you can buy their products from most local lumber yards. He said that a lot of the Home Depots and other "Big Box" stores don't carry it. He mentioned 6 stores just in my area around Hartford, Connecticut that carry their products.

Hope this helps.
Mondo

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains

...my backdrop has been in place for over 3 years and it is still standing very rigid....I checked to see if there is any leaning this morning and there isn't. It may be because it is only 15" high. The "track" in the Tuff-Bilt U-Molding is 1" deep so it is grabbing 1/15th of my Masonite. Maybe that is why I haven't had any problems. I also painted both sides of the Masonite with a wood sealer paint and then painted it blue. So, it probably hasn't absorbed any moisture. In addition, my layout is in a climate controlled family room, not a damp basement.

Proof is in the evidence. If it works, it works. Maybe my analysis was all wet ([:I]), or your environment plus the "humidi-proofing" you did on the masonite prevented any problems from arising. In any case, your idea is a neat concept, and you've proven it out.

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

I hate to rain on your parade, but.....

Have you considered what will happen as the masonite starts to "relax" in the channel?

With the center of gravity well above the restraining structure (the channel), significant bending stresses are generated in the masonite at the channel, as the channel restrains the masonite from falling over. Unfortunately, masonite does not have a good internal structure for handling long-term stresses and dissipating the strain energy associated with them.

Masonite will slowly release this strain energy as it absorbs water from the atmosphere, meaning the panel will tend to start to deform at the high-stress areas. It will start to lean, and finally collapse. In humid conditions will happen much faster than in dry conditions.

But if you put a curve into the backdrop, or tack the top in place at one or two places, suddenly the bending stresses and the strain energy at the channel are reduced or eliminated, and the masonite should be fine for a much longer time.

Hi Mark,
You make some good points but I have to tell you that my backdrop has been in place for over 3 years and it is still standing very rigid. (Sounds like an add for Viagra). I checked to see if there is any leaning this morning and there isn't. It may be because it is only 15" high. The "track" in the Tuff-Bilt U-Molding is 1" deep so it is grabbing 1/15th of my Masonite. Maybe that is why I haven't had any problems. I also painted both sides of the Masonite with a wood sealer paint and then painted it blue. So, it probably hasn't absorbed any moisture. In addition, my layout is in a climate controlled family room, not a damp basement.

By the way guys, I just got off the phone with the wholesale distributor who distributes Tuff-Bilt products and he said you can call just about any local lumber yard in the country and find Tuff-Bilt Lattice products. He mentioned about 6 stores in the Hartford, Connecticut area.

Hope this helps.
Mondo

[SilverSpike]

I like the whole idea and brunton has some great engineering topics on the stress points. Overall it appears to be a great alternative for those who have sectional layouts that require moving and for those with multi-layered layouts with not more than 20" between levels.

Thanks for sharing your discovery!

Cheers,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

....Masonite will slowly release this strain energy as it absorbs water from the atmosphere, meaning the panel will tend to start to deform at the high-stress areas.....

Do you think sealing with Thompsons Water Seal all around it first would help? Minwax sells a product that strengthens wood. Maybe that would add a bit of insurance.

[beegle55]

Although I haven't been suscribed to MR in quite a few years (I will be in a few days) I dont know what is in the book now, but judging from older issues I'd say that you should have captured a spot in some issue of the magizine. Good work!

[Pruitt]

I hate to rain on your parade, but.....

Have you considered what will happen as the masonite starts to "relax" in the channel?

With the center of gravity well above the restraining structure (the channel), significant bending stresses are generated in the masonite at the channel, as the channel restrains the masonite from falling over. Unfortunately, masonite does not have a good internal structure for handling long-term stresses and dissipating the strain energy associated with them.

Masonite will slowly release this strain energy as it absorbs water from the atmosphere, meaning the panel will tend to start to deform at the high-stress areas. It will start to lean, and finally collapse. In humid conditions will happen much faster than in dry conditions.

But if you put a curve into the backdrop, or tack the top in place at one or two places, suddenly the bending stresses and the strain energy at the channel are reduced or eliminated, and the masonite should be fine for a much longer time.

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tcf511

Thanks very much for sharing this. I'm building a layout entirely out of modules and this will be perfect for me. Clamping backdrops to modules at shows is barely acceptable but this would make them much easier to work with especially the corner modules. Thanks again!

Tim,
I'm so glad my approach will be helpful. That is why I wanted Model Railroader to publish my idea. I know you will find it so easy to screw the "track" to the back edge of your module and then just slip your backdrop into place. When it's time to go home, just slip the backdrop out and place it in the trunk. No more fooling around clamping backdrops or rescrewing them into place. Don't forget to run a file on each edge of the bottom of the backdrop so it slips easily into the track.

Thanks again for the note.
Mondo

[tcf511]

Thanks very much for sharing this. I'm building a layout entirely out of modules and this will be perfect for me. Clamping backdrops to modules at shows is barely acceptable but this would make them much easier to work with especially the corner modules. Thanks again!

[Walter Clot]

Great!!! Just what I need to separate my winter and spring sections.

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter

[^] [tup]
Great idea.
The only method I saw that was similar to yours was at a NMRA Division 6 meeting. The track was for aluminum siding with roll aluminum for the backdrop material. It required a channel at the top and bottom. But I think your discovery trumps that. Less cost, no top rail, easy to remove backdrop if needed and no screw holes to fill. But the killer application is a divider for island and peninsula layouts.

You should do an experiment to determine the maximum height.

The only problem I see is with Home Depot. If it's sold out they wont reorder any more. That's the way of big box stores. They buy a mass quantity and if it doesn't sell fast enough, they drop the product.

We need to find out where Home Depot buys these channels or who makes them. Maybe we can find other suppliers or buy direct from the manufacturer.

Hi,
I did a Google search on tuff-bilt lattice and found some distributors. You could contact them. I'm lucky that our local Home Depot here in Berlin, Connecticut carries the U-channel.

Happy Railroading.
Mondo

[Anonymous]

[^] [tup]
Great idea.
The only method I saw that was similar to yours was at a NMRA Division 6 meeting. The track was for aluminum siding with roll aluminum for the backdrop material. It required a channel at the top and bottom. But I think your discovery trumps that. Less cost, no top rail, easy to remove backdrop if needed and no screw holes to fill. But the killer application is a divider for island and peninsula layouts.

You should do an experiment to determine the maximum height.

The only problem I see is with Home Depot. If it's sold out they wont reorder any more. That's the way of big box stores. They buy a mass quantity and if it doesn't sell fast enough, they drop the product.

We need to find out where Home Depot buys these channels or who makes them. Maybe we can find other suppliers or buy direct from the manufacturer.

[jawnt]

Hey guys!

Those with 4x8's now have simple way to install a curved backdrop down the middle of the 4x8.
By putting in a slight curve, you will make the backdrop even more stable.
Time to drag out all those "S" curves we've been hiding for years ----[:I]

[bogp40]

Quite an innovative idea, shure beats routering a 1/4"slot. No template to make and no mess. Can probably work for may layout designs.

[DavidGSmith]

I was wondering about a back drop on a peninsula on my layout, I think this will work , thanks for the tip. Hope some Mag prints it.

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

They ought to do it as an MR illustrated back page idea. I'm surprised they missed that!

If it's any consolation, I've also had article ideas rejected by MR, and I've had trackside photos rejected by MR, so you're not alone. You win some, and you lose some. Just don't quit submitting things for publication. [swg]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the note. The editor who rejected my idea did say he might save it for a back page idea but I needed to drop him a note. I was too disgusted to bother.

Thanks,
Mondo

[jfugate]

They ought to do it as an MR illustrated back page idea. I'm surprised they missed that!

If it's any consolation, I've also had article ideas rejected by MR, and I've had trackside photos rejected by MR, so you're not alone. You win some, and you lose some. Just don't quit submitting things for publication. [swg]

[scubaterry]

I for one think your idea is great and I will certainly consider it when I get that far. This article would be more informative and useful than some that the MRR staff write. Don't get me wrong I love the mag but it seems like some of the articles by staff are lots of fluff to fill up a page with no real useful message. Probably will get blackballed for this one[B)]
Terry[8D]

[AntonioFP45]

Way to go Mondo. Definetly a help for new club layouts that encounter the problem with curving backdrops.

[Anonymous]

Solves my problem. Thanks for sharing this great idea!

[james saunders]

thanks for that tip

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains
[Yes, MR does pay a nominal amount for articles....something like $250.00 per page.

Whoo - unless things have gone WAAAY up in the past few years, this isn't accurate. They paid US$80.00 per page for many years. Most other magazines did the same until recently. I had an article in "Model Railroading" (MRG) last year and got $60.00 a page. When I inquired why the drop from the previously paid $80., they replied it was due to the decline in circlulation.

MR and other mags also used to pay $125.00 for a cover photo.

Bob Boudreau
Over 800 photos printed so far

[wjstix]

I would submit to others, RMC, NMRA etc. Mags can be funny, about 10 years ago I came up with a way to build a tethered throttle for DC that used about $9 in Radio Shack parts and required no diodes or chips etc., very easy assembly and use. I wrote an article and nobody wanted it until the NMRA accepted it for the Bulletin. This was in 1995, still haven't run it yet !! This was about the time they started taking advertising, I have wondered if the mags were worried about companies that made throttles getting mad at them for publishing a cheaper alternative??

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Budliner

Thanks Mondo
thats a great idea I have a home depot here in the city and will check that out thanks

do you get paid if they use your idea in the mag?

K

Hi K,
Yes, MR does pay a nominal amount for articles....something like $250.00 per page. I didn't write the article for the money. I just thought that many guys out there, especially the modular guys (as mentioned by a guy above), would greatly benefit from this approach. I recalled my buddy spending hours and hours building a 2by4 wall down the middle of his penninusula and then sheetrocking both sides. Not only was it difficult to build but took up a loot of real estate.

Thanks for the note,
Mondo

[Budliner]

Thanks Mondo
thats a great idea I have a home depot here in the city and will check that out thanks

do you get paid if they use your idea in the mag?

K

[dave9999]

Mondo,
Great idea. After I get rolling on the new layout, I am going to look into how this will work
into my plans. I will definitely bookmark this thread for future reference. Thanks. Dave

[edo1039]

Thanks Mondo,I think you are on to something just by reading the comments left behind,I will give it a try on my own layout and keep you updated on progress.

[jwmurrayjr]

QUOTE: It is quite innovative, and has nothing to do with anything that has been published, ever. The support method is the key, and could be covered in a single page of text and a couple photos. This isn't about painting backdrops.

Right on. MRR has never mentioned this product or anything like it (I think that they respond to a lot of submissions with that line. Why??) Any it looks like a good idea to me.

Thanks for posting it and try some other publication,