Ban on Athearn Locomotives

[Anonymous]

I love my athearns, I have everything from the old diecast metal trucked diesels from the late 60's and 70's up to a brand new Genesis ATSF F3 with sound which is a wonder to behold. The sound, once adjusted to the particular unit is awsome and correct for a F unit. The sound needed its volume lowered across the board, was factory set at maximum, The horn was set for a 3 chime, which while the ATSF had those in later years, the F3's had single chime blats originaly, just have to program that, very easy. I just bought a Athearn PA that has sat in storage for almost 25 yrs. While dusty and dirty, she still runs. This one predates flywheels. Bought it for $15 at a show today. Nothing broken, just a bit dirty. Lets see some of these newer superdetailed units be in this shape in 25+ years. Some simple maintance is all an Athearn blue box unit needs. The only real upgrade I do is replace the metal contact strip with a soldered wire. Remember this newer stuff is assembled in China and those workers could care less how well it is greased. The older stuff was USA built with pride and while a bit noisy sometimes, older athearns always run. I have boxes of blue box locomotive parts that will enable my units to run indefinatly. The newer units are a bit more fagile in the detail dept. Heck the Genesis F unit is museum quality. Cheers Mike

[Anonymous]

I think since horizon bought athearn and it went overseas they're having some quality issue. I've read several threads about gear noise in the redone rs-3, until I read better reviews I'll just wait.FWIW I wouldn't buy budweiser for a nickle a can........

[cmrproducts]

Every year at our NMRA MCR Division 11 Jamboree we have a Locomotive Power Pull contest.

This is open to all HO engines.

We usually have about 8 to 10 entries and the most of them are Athearn. And do you know what usually wins the competition Athearn, WHY?

Because of the sintered power metal wheels. They give the most traction Period!

The set up uses a digital gauge to measure the ounces pulled and all engines are weighed. Then these 2 values are divided into each other to give a psudo-tractive effort value. This rates all engine equally.

So the heavier engine has to pull a lot more in ounces that a light engine. It is interesting to see the different brands of engine and how poorly they pull even though they may weigh more than a pound!

BOB H – Clarion, PA – Div 11 Power-Pull Chairman

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Norfolk Southern Railfan

Somebody earlier said that it is basically my responsibility to figure out what is wrong with these engines. It is NOT my responsibility to find out what is wrong with a perfectly brand new engine.

IfSomebody else said earlier that they can "Fix" their locomotives. Well, believe me you can not fix a warped truck, my friend tried for hours upon hours and could not get it fixed at all. The warpage is like a virus that is embedded into the defective plastic.

I am willing to take the time and try to find out what is wrong with a product when it acts up from time to time. I enjoy doing that. But not when several products from the same manufacturer repeatedly mess up over and over again, and not at the risk of losing hundreds of dollars which I really don't have.
I would not be on here today if only 1 out of about 8 locomotives messed up, but this is a repeated problem that goes on and on.

Also, a local hobby shop in my area with a very respectable dealer has also placed a BAN on athearn products. The dealer no longer sells any athearn products mostly because of these problems I have mentioned.

Allow me to answer and/or question a few points.

1st, the engine that "broke the camels back". Was it almost new, or had it been in service a year before it had a "heart attack". Your prior posts left this issue cloudy. If it was almost new, then you should have bee-lined it to you dealer, if it was a year, then I'm afraid the repair responsibility falls on you. After all, You have been running it, storing it, and subjecting it to environmental elements of your layout, whatever they may be.

Truck warpage, while it is a vexing problem, can only really be fixed 1 way, replace the truck, don't waste time trying to straighten it. But its not a disease! Its more than likely caused by extreme temperatures or storing the loco with the weight of the unit unevenly distributed across the axis of the truck. Summer weather, especially if plastic things are left in the car or stored in an attic, are a killer. That being said, I've yet to see an Athearn truck warp. But I have replaced several Spectrum trucks that warped. Nice part was that Bachmann did send replacement parts at no charge.[:D]

Your willingness to try to repair them yourself is to be commended, but don't drive yourself crazy with it. [%-)]Part of Athearns appeal has always been that almost anyone could work on them (NOTE:I did not say FIX them) They have good exploded views of each engine type with part numbers. I would recommend taking these sheets and keeping them in a binder for reference. When a part is bad beyond repair, just order the right part. Fixing a warped truck, for example, is NOT worth the mental stress that a 6 dollar replacement truck will cost you. Also cast metal will not be bent back in place. Its a physics thing, next time, get a new frame and move on. Work smart, not hard. [;)]

As far as your local dealer is concerned, what is he smoking?? Has he banned the entire Athearn line , engines, cars, and other accessories?? Methinks his beef is not with Athearn, but rather with the parent, Horizon Hobbies. There may be a hidden adjenda there that he is not disclosing.[|(]

There are much bigger pieces of junk out there than Athearn. As I enter my 41st year in this hobby, I can tell you, EVERYBODY at some time, builds a turd. I personally have had P2K gears cracked (on 8 units no less!) Kato SD-40s that COULD NOT negotiate anything less than a 36 inch radius curve, and couldn't even do that if there was a dip in the track, Bachman Spectrum engines with noisey, rattling shells and motor bearings that squealed, Atlas units with factory decoders that went brain dead for no reason, noisy Stewart Baldwins (with the Kato drive). I wont even start to list the problems I've had with some brass pieces! As you can tell, I've got quite a large fleet, and alot of the fleet are Athearn (about 25%) or Athearn powered. Why? Cuz they run!
Last year, I got out my very 1st engine, a Lionel FA with rubber band drive and repowered it, just for old times sake. How? With a complete Athearn drive (U-boat trucks, motor, etc.) True, I had to make the truck bolsters, but other than that, the drive is pure Athearn. [:D]

Banning Athearn will also limit your modeling choices, by causing you to buy more expensive, higher end versions of the engine you want and avoiding Athearn. That BLI engine is gonna cost you 2-3 times what the Athearn costs. And money spent doesn't always equate to quality. If it did NONE of the high end manufacturers would have a customer service department. They wouldn't need it![;)]

BTW, the units in the picture below are chop-nosed Front Range shells, Front Range frames and you guessed it Athearn Drives!!!!![:D][:D][:D]

[Paul3]

Well, this is interesting...

If I were to "ban" every manufacturer that I ever had a problem with I would not buy:

1). Athearn - My PA-1 won't pull a thing since the wheels are slipping on their shafts, my GP30 sounds like a capaccino machine, and my rubber band powered RDC's are laughably powered. Obviously, Athearn is junk and must be banned.

2). Atlas - My H16-44 has a serious growling problem at low speed, my old RS-3 with the plastic coupler frame caused trains to uncouple under a load, and my ancient FP7 is louder than any Athearn. Obviously, Atlas is junk and must be banned.

3). Life-Like - On some of my FA's, the wheels go "clunk-clunk-clunk" because one of the axle gears is split, my RDC-2's won't run with my RDC-1's or RDC-3's, my various PA's are all geared differently, my RS-2 has a random temporary power loss for no good reason, and my DL109's run at about 150 mph at top speed. Obviously, Life-Like is junk and must be banned.

4). Bachmann - My H16-44's wheels lost their plating before I ever ran it, my 4-8-2 wiggles down the track and lost a pick up shoe, my passenger car coupler pockets are so loose that they uncouple, and my 44tonner is just at loud as any Athearn. Obviously, Bachmann is junk and must be banned.

5). Kato - My U25B powered by Kato hung up on every Kadee magnet I ever saw, they have a ton of fragile detail parts to apply, and my RS-2 has a green LED headlight. Obviously, Kato is junk and must be banned.

Well, as you can see above, nothing is perfect...

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[willy6]

[#ditto] Do we learn from our mistakes or make mistakes to learn?

[icmr]

As most of you know if your memory serves, I had purchased an Athearn Genesis SD70 and in the end I had scraped it and now I am in the process of kitbashing it. I am the friend that NSR is talking about. I found out that the engine had the warped truck the day I got it after running on our friends layout because it was derailing. The headlights I could care less about. Note that I only tried to work on the truck for about five minutes then posted a topic about it asking you for help. Then I emailed Athearn then they emailed me telling me to send the trucks in and they would wend me new ones free of charge. As for banning Athearn, NO I do not ban the buying of Athearn engines but I am set on only buying BB for parts and kitbashing, along with older Athearn RTR engines. Kato engines are good but replacement parts are expensive when you need two trucks, a frame, a motor, and a shell( my SD80MAC commited suicide ). And about the hard earned money spent on the SD70, I will say that I do not have any hard fellings about Athearn and this problem because I knew ahead of time that they had problems and I took a risk, knowing that if I didnt want to fix it I could kitbash it. If I had to choose between losing an Athearn loco and a Kato I would rather loose the Kato since Athearn makes what I want. I will buy more Athearn engines knowing that I will get to tear them down and rebuild if I need to, as goes with any engine. Being a friend of NSR and haveing worked on his RTR BNSF loco I can say that the motor has just plain worn out. The sound is louder than BB but not the worst sound in the world. When ran at low speed it sounds like dirt is inside the motor or it needs lubed. I replaced it with an old BB motor and it ran fine( I done all of this on saturday ).

I will say this, as I get older and more experienced at Model Railroading I understand that problems happen and you have to deal with them. My grandpa worked with electronics and that had to be perfect but it had to be maintained, just like locomotives.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[dinwitty]

before you buy, look at the model/kit and be sure its in good shape.

most frames are cast and will not withstand bending.
you can gett replacement frames from athearn.

[conagher]

Norfolk Southern Fan...in your original post about Athearn....mentioned are 7 of your Athearn locomotives of which 3 are OK. 2 more were OK out of the box then something happened after a long time (apparent maintenance issues) and ONLY ONE had an initial problem out of the box. Did you make any effort to return it to the retailer or contact Athearn? They do have a warranty program. And then you say your local retailer has now banned Athearn because of ALL your problems? Interesting.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

The thing about BB is it never dies.

QUOTE: a loco can be pulling a train up and down the 2% grade 36 inch radius helix for 4 to 5 hours straight. That type running can be a killer and I have replaced a few motors in my Athearn SD40-2's.

BB can handle this. yes, the motor is going to wear out, but that's true of anything with moving parts. Once I was running my BB GP38-2 and GP40-2 , pulling quite a bit as they lugged down on my 0.5 %(??) grade. After about and hour I stopped them and took them off the track. when I touched them the fuel tanks were hot. That was several months ago and they still soldier on.

I know the feeling. I once ran one for hours with a long train at a club show, until suddenly it died, with smoke coming out of the unit. After removing the shell and burning my finger on the motor,[:0] I figured it was a lost cause[:(]. So I set it aside and tried it again after it cooled. Wow ! It ran! In fact, its still running!!!!!
Not bad for junk![8D]

[Soo Line fan]

Norfolk Southern Fan,
I think you would have been better off buying replacement motors for the locos you already owned, instead of buying more that failed (for whatever reason). I would rather have 2 that run than a long dead line. A-Line/ PPWest makes a great repower kit, which should solve the motor problems you have described. Another suggestion would be to invest in one of the books concerning the subject of repairing/repowering Athearns.

Jim

[Ibflattop]

Oh Want to talk about loud Engines. My GP-30s from Bachmann are louder than my Athearn Engines!!!!!!!!!! Kevin

[Anonymous]

[:)]

[Darth Santa Fe]

About the warped trucks on the Genesis SD70 series...Kato SD trucks are perfect fits, as long as you can scratch-build a truck/worm retainer or mill some of the weight out. If you can do that, you'll have an engine that runs perfectly smooth AND has excellent detail![:D] The Genesis SD70s, in my opinion, have much better detail than the Kato SDs.[:D]

[Anonymous]

NSR,

Sorry to hear about your problems, but I think you are over-blowing this ban. You are YOUNG and things change. Shoot, some of us here have BB Athearn Locos that have been running longer than you've been on the planet.

Every Company has its problems. When I received my first P2K GP-7 with QSI sound last year the die cast frame was bent and the coupler on the rear was WAY OFF when gauge checked. I got it mail order and the company I bought it from would have gladly exchanged it no questions asked. But I got my tools out, a nice metal straight edge and took care of it myself. After a year of running, it's fine and working as well as when I first fixed it. The truth to the matter is the shop I bought it from was INFORMED of the problem within a few days of receipt of the product.

I recently purchased a RTR Athearn RS3. I've been wanting a GOOD looking RS3 for a long time and this one looked great. But....it Growls! I paid a good dollar for this Loco and I was expecting a little better performance from it due to the new hex-drives and such that were engineered into these new series of engines. it will be a long time before I buy another, but I would never totally lock out another purchase from Athearn.

I have always bought what looked good to me and I have been very lucky with my purchases that they have run well, even my used P2K engines.

Not sure if this helps you or not,

Chris

[BNSF4ever]

I would tend to buy nothing but Atlas, Kato, and the high-end stuff, but Athearn put out the most product, with the widest range of road names. Without Athearn, I'd have no P42DCs in Phase IVb to haul my Superliners and no F59PHIs to pull my Metrolink commuters.

I do get frustrated that they will not put even non-working ditch lights on its SDs that are in post-1990 liveries. I also do not understand why the ditch lights on the early RTR P42s were open to catch light from the main cab light...and the most recent releases have closed up ditch lights.

Athearn aren't perfect, but then again, I just bought a Tower 55 ES44DC with numerous paint chips on the handrails. But at least Athearn are out there offering units from the pre-merger days and more recent ones as well.

My final comment--posted before--is that I hope Athearn Genesis get in on the Tier 2 locomotive models and not concede that market to Tower 55 and Overland, which are very very expensive.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

The thing about BB is it never dies.

QUOTE: a loco can be pulling a train up and down the 2% grade 36 inch radius helix for 4 to 5 hours straight. That type running can be a killer and I have replaced a few motors in my Athearn SD40-2's.

BB can handle this. yes, the motor is going to wear out, but that's true of anything with moving parts. Once I was running my BB GP38-2 and GP40-2 , pulling quite a bit as they lugged down on my 0.5 %(??) grade. After about and hour I stopped them and took them off the track. when I touched them the fuel tanks were hot. That was several months ago and they still soldier on.

I know the feeling. I once ran one for hours with a long train at a club show, until suddenly it died, with smoke coming out of the unit. After removing the shell and burning my finger on the motor,[:0] I figured it was a lost cause[:(]. So I set it aside and tried it again after it cooled. Wow ! It ran! In fact, its still running!!!!!
Not bad for junk![8D]

LOL. Was it an EMD or a GE? Allan.

[emdgp92]

Most of my engines are Athearn units. With the exception of my Baldwin S12, I've never had problems with them...other than dirty wheels.

The S12 though is a pain. For some reason, dirt just loves to hide in the truck bolster area. The only way to get rid of it, is to take the engine completely apart. At least once that's cleaned off, it runs well again. This unit doesn't like dirty track either. The slightest bit of dirt causes it to run horribly.

Athearn diesels are tough. Not too long ago, my 16-year-old F7 derailed and hit the floor. Other than knocking out the windshield, dislodging the motor, and bending a grab iron or two, the unit was unscathed. That was 3 years ago, and the F still runs like new.

I've heard that a few local shops don't like to work on Kato units, since they're supposedly a pain to take apart.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

The thing about BB is it never dies.

QUOTE: a loco can be pulling a train up and down the 2% grade 36 inch radius helix for 4 to 5 hours straight. That type running can be a killer and I have replaced a few motors in my Athearn SD40-2's.

BB can handle this. yes, the motor is going to wear out, but that's true of anything with moving parts. Once I was running my BB GP38-2 and GP40-2 , pulling quite a bit as they lugged down on my 0.5 %(??) grade. After about and hour I stopped them and took them off the track. when I touched them the fuel tanks were hot. That was several months ago and they still soldier on.

I know the feeling. I once ran one for hours with a long train at a club show, until suddenly it died, with smoke coming out of the unit. After removing the shell and burning my finger on the motor,[:0] I figured it was a lost cause[:(]. So I set it aside and tried it again after it cooled. Wow ! It ran! In fact, its still running!!!!!
Not bad for junk![8D]

LOL. Was it an EMD or a GE? Allan.

It was a U-boat,,,,,,funny thing, the smoke looked almost prototypical!!!!![(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

The thing about BB is it never dies.

QUOTE: a loco can be pulling a train up and down the 2% grade 36 inch radius helix for 4 to 5 hours straight. That type running can be a killer and I have replaced a few motors in my Athearn SD40-2's.

BB can handle this. yes, the motor is going to wear out, but that's true of anything with moving parts. Once I was running my BB GP38-2 and GP40-2 , pulling quite a bit as they lugged down on my 0.5 %(??) grade. After about and hour I stopped them and took them off the track. when I touched them the fuel tanks were hot. That was several months ago and they still soldier on.

I know the feeling. I once ran one for hours with a long train at a club show, until suddenly it died, with smoke coming out of the unit. After removing the shell and burning my finger on the motor,[:0] I figured it was a lost cause[:(]. So I set it aside and tried it again after it cooled. Wow ! It ran! In fact, its still running!!!!!
Not bad for junk![8D]

WOW, then I shouldn't worry when my old Athearns get hot. But they really ARE that tough. Athearn BB. like a rock (PLEASE don't sue me GM[;)])

QUOTE: If I were to "ban" every manufacturer that I ever had a problem with I would not buy:

let me try that
Athearn RTR- my AC4400 grinds REALLY loud - so, Athearn RTR must be total junk (actually, because many of them grind- I'm not buying RTR anymore)

Atlas- my U33C broke the front driveshaft- so, Atlas is obviously junk. (I replaced the driveshaft and it's one of my best runners)

Athearn BB- 2 clips that hold thw worm gear broke off the truck on my GP35- so, BB must be junk (actually, I'll be buying a new truck soon)

Bachmann spectrum- my 2-8-0 had broken wires out of the box and has never ran since day 1- so, bachmann is junk (actually, I thought this until I got my spectrum GP30)

P2K (I've never owned one) some GP7s, 9s, and 30s have cracked gears- so, P2K is JUNK (remember when I used to think that?)

QUOTE: When I was younger and got my first layout, we purchased an NS GP38-2 Athearn BB unit. It ran fine until it eventually just wore out after several years. It was a good unit.

That's what BB is good for. You got some good use out of it so why are you complaining? Yes, that's a little shorter than they generally last but still- BB isn't that expensive.

QUOTE: Then, I purchased a KCS SD40-2 Athearn BB; never had a single problem.

There you go. Why ban BB when it's been good to you?

QUOTE: Next, I got a SP SD45 Athearn BB; the trucks and wheels are kind of messed up and do not function properly all the time. Then, I bought a CSX C44-9W Athearn BB; the motor does not start at a low speed, unit has a loud sound, and stalls very frequently on clean track.

The C44 pry needs the bar that delivers power to the motor replaced w/ wires. Chances are these problems can easily be fixed and it'll run great. Most Athearn BB problems are simple fixes.

[jbinkley60]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

Every year at our NMRA MCR Division 11 Jamboree we have a Locomotive Power Pull contest.

This is open to all HO engines.

We usually have about 8 to 10 entries and the most of them are Athearn. And do you know what usually wins the competition Athearn, WHY?

Because of the sintered power metal wheels. They give the most traction Period!

The set up uses a digital gauge to measure the ounces pulled and all engines are weighed. Then these 2 values are divided into each other to give a psudo-tractive effort value. This rates all engine equally.

So the heavier engine has to pull a lot more in ounces that a light engine. It is interesting to see the different brands of engine and how poorly they pull even though they may weigh more than a pound!

BOB H – Clarion, PA – Div 11 Power-Pull Chairman

Bob, traction is traction. Dividing the weight out is irrelevant to raw traction force. What you are doing is finding the traction efficiency of the locomotives which is nothing more than how the wheels grip the rails. I could put rubber bands on the wheels to solve this. (Athearn once did this) The basic force equation shows that a heavier locomotive will have more friction on the rails at the point where the wheels start slipping. Right to the point of where the wheels start slipping you have a combination of the downard force of gravity coupled with the friction coefficient of the wheels and the rails. Once the wheels start slipping, the only force remaining is the downward force of gravity. At that point the heavier locomotive wins for traction force everytime.

[jbinkley60]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

Then, I bought a CSX C44-9W Athearn BB; the motor does not start at a low speed, unit has a loud sound, and stalls very frequently on clean track.

The C44 pry needs the bar that delivers power to the motor replaced w/ wires. Chances are these problems can easily be fixed and it'll run great. Most Athearn BB problems are simple fixes.

[Anonymous]

I suggest NSR find a new hobby like stamp collecting or shooting marbles and quit crying all over this board!
It doesn't take too many smarts to fix a problem on an Athearn locomotive. But I guess it's easier to whine and cry about it!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jbinkley60
Just installed a DCC decoder in my Athearn RTR Dash 9 tonight. Nice grinding sound and stalls on clean track. It's been in the box a couple of years. I'll set it off to the side for now and work on detailing my Kato Dash 9.

jbinkley:

Some Athearn mechanisms are lubricated with light machine oil. Unfortunately, light machine oil evaporates rather easily over long periods of storage (a couple years certainly qualify), so you need to relube your Athearn. I would do a complete disassembly of the trucks to do the relubing, and also take the opportunity to ensure all the electrically-conductive parts (wheels, square brass axle shims, bolsters, contact strips, etc.) are not rusted.

This is not unique to Athearns of course... I had some P2Ks and Atlases that also needed reconditioning to get them to run right when bringing them out of mothballs.

[jeffshultz]

I won't say that this topic inspired me, but I just built a small circle of track (very temporary) out in the garage, and I've got a BB SW1500 doing a "death march" around it.... for the next 10 hours at least.

Let's see if I can grind those gears in - I'd like to put DCC in it and use it on my current layout.

[Budliner]

I never liked Athearn


yuck

[BentnoseWillie]

I've never seen a problem with a "blue box" or RTR Athearn that couldn't be fixed easily, usually without replacing parts. Even when parts are required they're relatively easy to get by salvage or purchased new - ever try to get replacement parts for some Bachmanns?

The traditional Athearn design isn't perfect, but it has long ago proven its worth as a simple, reliable, maintainable drive that lends itself well to modification. Its biggest vices are electrical - namely the live frame and the metal strip that passes power to the top motor strap. The latter is the real weak link, but it's easily fixed by replacing the strap with a length of wire - I think it was the first soldering I ever did.

I had one of the aforementioned SD70s with the truck problem - it was a defect in the initial run of trucks. When I emailed Athearn asking for advice on how to fix it, they voluntarily sent me new trucks - which I had (in Nova Scotia) three days later.

My experience has been that Athearn locomotives are a snap to maintain, and parts are easy to get - not so for several of their competitors. I'm not certain what the beef is with them aside from an apparent expectation that they be maintenance-free indefinitely[?]

[waltersrails]

almost all mine work. expect one i have to clean every few months. Me personally like to work on my engines. I love any thing that runs and if it doesn't i make it work.

[icmr]

Thats how I am. If it runs, run it unless it is blue box them I wont run them but I will display, keep as a part source, or kitba***hem.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[waltersrails]

kitbashing is good for them to me if its the same engine i have or a dummy athearn. to me any way.