Train Show Disappointment!

[Anonymous]

I enjoy going to train shows for a variety of reasons. But I think you need to go with certain realities in mind: GATS/Greenberg, and similar: primarily for commercial dealers, I go looking for things I cannot find anywhere else, do not expect to find any "deals" (sometimes I do, however); locally sponsored shows: people trying to thin out collections, sell collections, etc.: not much new, expect varioius levels of quality, many sellers will "deal" (attended a local show last Saturday, an acquaintance bought 4 Genesis F-units for $50 each!). This approach has worked for me for almost 20 years!

[JohnT14808]

Hmmmm. I'm sorry to hear some many fellow modelers having bad experiences at Train Shows. Up here in Washington state, I have attended at least three shows a year, from Seattle to Portland, Puyallup, Tacoma, etc.

Yes, you do see some of the same vendors, but I have also noticed that there seem to be a LOT of local vendors in the scratch building or kit business up here. I've seen some very innovative ideas for uncoupling, different street lighting ideas that I find unbelieveable, and some down home scenery techniques at the Bragdon booth, almost every time I go to a show.

Ok, there are a number of modelers that rent a space and sell their stuff. We have a guy in our club that does this and he makes money at it. He has LOTS of vintage HO stuff and so many engines that he prices reasonably well, so the stuff MOVES!! But these modelers are really what I'm looking for, as I'm usually looking for rolling stock or building kits for the layout. The last one I attended I spent about $50.00 and came away happy.

We also have about 8 or 10 modular clubs in the Seattle-Tacoma / Western Wa area. They come to all the shows and their layouts never cease to amaze me.

I guess it all boils down to "whatever floats your boat"....or "which ever track your on"....

[Anonymous]

The local train club. Flint River Model Railroad Club just had a show. There was everything from N , HO ,Lionel and LGB. And even Lego. There was even a guy selling back issues of several railroad mags. He said he always did well when he came to town. Phil

[Anonymous]

The last show I went to, I see folks picking thru boxes of 20 year old stuff that looks rather good but priced VERY close to today's technology and retail.

There is only one show I dont mind going to and that is the Project 819 meet in April each year in Pine Bluff Arkansas. It is pretty good.

The jewel of all shows is the Scale shows in Timonium Maryland. Maybe next time I am on the coast I will visit again.

[tsgtbob]

Sad part is, the 3 rail guys SPEND $$$$ at shows. One of the biggest complaints I heard when I was a "dealer" (trading stuff that I got, and needed to get rid of) at shows was "there's nothing here" by what ever group attended, be they 3 railers, g gaugers, HO modelers, or N scalers.
There have been many shows where I came home with the same amount in my wallet as I left with.
Of course, I model in 2 rail O.
And I really feel sorry for the Z scalers...
Speaking of flea markets, several years ago, there was a vendor at Pittsburgh area flea market who had an Atlas F-9 in Santa Fe (the old O scale one) on his table. Had it marked $500! [:0]
When I walked up too the table, I asked him about this engine. He said "That' there is a rare Lionel, see that there paint, she is about 75 years old" (as Dave Barry says, "I'm not making this up")
I politly pointed out the "Atlas" and "Made in Austria" molded into the plastic of the fuel tanks.
Well, you would have thought I had made a disparaging comment on this "gentlemans" ancestery.
He picked up the F-9 (which I was about ot offer him a fair price of $50) and THREW it in a wooden crate under his table!
His comment (language cleaned up for this famile friendly forum) "Well, there, now nobody will want it!" (actuall, his rant went on for about 15 minutes, and he got attention from stalls at least 500 yds away, and said language that would embarrass a Sailor)
Since then, I really avoid flea markets!

[aloco]

If a train show has vendors present, what disappoints me is if no one shows up with good stuff to sell. I don't care for the 'flea market' guys with toy trains for sale. No self-respecting model railroader is gonna load up on junk.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like show are a no win situatuation. Havn't attended one in years and I am planning on going to my first one in a long time. This show has been traditionally good as I am the bargin hunter. I like the used stuff as it adds to my modeling value. Time will tell as to what i find. I will report back to this thread after the show (Feb 11th).

The orange box stuff is nice but I feel it doeesn't belong at a "model railroad" show.
Toy train shows would be more appropriat.

[bcammack]

Went to another railfair swap meet at the Volusia fairgrounds this weekend. Last time I was looking for N scale stuff and there wasn't much. This time I was looking for DVDs and there was lots of N scale stuff and no DVDs. (sigh)

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NeO6874

another nearby show (if they still do it) is held at Greenfield Village/Henry Ford Museum in Dearborne (sp?) Michigan - its an entire weekend and all over the village grounds. what is(was) nice about that one is that the museum/village brought out some of the other pieces they have on display in the roundhouse, to let them run. They also offered a tour of their backshop, and allowed visitors to ride on their handcars and such. It is mostly club layouts, and maybe a few vendors, selling most anything (train related).

However, it is more a day to learn about (relive?) railroading history than buyers/sellers (it IS a history museum afterall) - though the (museum) people make it fun, and there are a lot of things to see.

They still do Train Days (I think that's what it's called) and it's usually Jam Packed..

[tsgtbob]

I used to go to shows almost every weekend, form "firehall" meets to the Timonium shows, and Greenberg shows. What I have seen is a shift from the locals selling un-wanted items, to the same 20 or so "gypsy" dealers at each meet.
Anymore, I just go to the TCA meet in York, the Bedford (Pa.) show the end of Oct, and maybe a Greeenbergs show in Monroeville. The quality of stuff at almost all of the shows has declined IMHO, due partly to the influence of Evil-bay and the lack of innovation in ALL scales.
Bring back kitbuilding, even if its only 'shake the box"

[NeO6874]

QUOTE: Originally posted by polizi

I am not complaining because the shows have old used stuff or even new just the fact there was little HO and I am not going to pay someone 25.00 for a wood box car that isnot even completed or painted I will pay for whats good even if it old or new. I just think these shows could be better I over heard alot of folks talking who were new into the hobby hter and when you walk in the door and the firtst loco you see is like a O or S gauge that is ovewr 500.00 it scares off some potentaly hobbiest.

as fot the 'S' Scale stuff... if it's a genuine AF model, it would probably be worth it (provided it isnt damaged horribly) - as these models are collector's pieces now.

another nearby show (if they still do it) is held at Greenfield Village/Henry Ford Museum in Dearborne (sp?) Michigan - its an entire weekend and all over the village grounds. what is(was) nice about that one is that the museum/village brought out some of the other pieces they have on display in the roundhouse, to let them run. They also offered a tour of their backshop, and allowed visitors to ride on their handcars and such. It is mostly club layouts, and maybe a few vendors, selling most anything (train related).

However, it is more a day to learn about (relive?) railroading history than buyers/sellers (it IS a history museum afterall) - though the (museum) people make it fun, and there are a lot of things to see.

[Anonymous]

Train shows vary some are great and others are not so good. I usually attend the shows one time and if they don't have what I want, I don't go back again. Some shows are specialty shows for collectors and usually carry a lot of items for a particular scale or manufacturer. These shows are great if that is what you want. I stay away from those shows. I also stay away from the train and toys shows. The toys are usually beanie babies.
Check the upcoming shows on trains.com. There is a good show in Vermillon, Ohio on March 5th. I sold at this show for about 5 years. The show is all scales and is put on by the local model railroad club. I do not even live in the area, nor am I a member of their club.
I live in western Pa. and see junk being sold for top dollar at train shows. This happens most everywhere. I just walk by it. Sooner or later these people will get tired of hauling it in and hauling it home. I always felt since I am paying for the table to sell my items. I may as well price my items reasonably.
This is true of most of the train shows no matter where you live. The best prices and deals are made before the show opens to the public. Sellers/dealers will walk the hall and look for items to buy. They may resell some items and keep some items for their layout.
Pricing varies by the area that you live in. Some area hobby shops discount as high as 20% to walk in customers. Having lived in the greater Milwaukee area for almost 14 years this was common. Having grown up in northern Ohio, that is very rare. Train show prices also take on pricing for the area. Sometimes you can get lucky and catch an estate sale at a train show.

[Anonymous]

I am not complaining because the shows have old used stuff or even new just the fact there was little HO and I am not going to pay someone 25.00 for a wood box car that isnot even completed or painted I will pay for whats good even if it old or new. I just think these shows could be better I over heard alot of folks talking who were new into the hobby hter and when you walk in the door and the firtst loco you see is like a O or S gauge that is ovewr 500.00 it scares off some potentaly hobbiest.

[Anonymous]

Its not the fact that people are selling off there old stuff but the prices they want for old junk. The seem to think they should get the same price for old stuff as they get for new stuff. If that is what the train shows are becoming then I'm thinking they will eventually die a slow death.

Steve

[Anonymous]

Let's see...

We seem to have one group complaining because train shows aren't like the old days when people sold off their old used stuff, and another group complaining because trains shows only have old stuff and not the latest, greatest...

Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder?

Mike Tennent

[Anonymous]

I would make a Box car shed if it were a "Box car" its a vert a pax car it was used by GM to transport the Chevy Vega which were loaded on the doors and then the door were lifted up and the cars were shipped Vertically really a unique car. When I was a kid you could see them around he since the Vega was made in lordstown. The kit was really hard to find and I could only find one I really wanted about 4 of them I realized this after I had already put this one together so I shot my self in the foot for making a pattern.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by polizi
I have assmbled a wood kit and it was hard but I have alot of love for that car only problem is what do you do with one 80 some foot Vert-A-Pax car? Guess it will sit on a siding!

Make a lonnnnng yard office or storage shed out of it? Actually, "boxcar" depots and sheds look reallyt cool on a layout. [tup]

Tom

[Anonymous]

Yes it appears form those who have posted here that this is just the way Train shows are. Me and the better half went to a train show in akron once and while it didnt have everything I wanted it had more then the last few I have gone to thats for sure.

TStage: I will have to look into going to the show up in Lakeland. The show I just went to was in Parma I believe it was put on by a local train club but the sea of orange boxes was just too much I felt sea sick. I had to laugh there was a guy there selling some old balsa wood box cars that were already assembled and the edges of the wood were unpainted and look horrible and yet he wanted modern day retail like it was a RTR car. When it comes to my cars I like to do the assmbley on them myself. I have assmbled a wood kit and it was hard but I have alot of love for that car only problem is what do you do with one 80 some foot Vert-A-Pax car? Guess it will sit on a siding!

[Anonymous]

I was at the Timmonium train show this year and also at one near Philly and both of them were a big dissapointment to me. I thought there was to much large scale stuff and to much older junk. The stuff that was new was more expensive than the LHS or internet sites. I always thought the prices were suppose to be alot cheaper at the shows or at least there should have been representatives from the major manufacturers the with new products and stuff to show or at least to ask questions. I probably wont be going back to any of the shows again at least any of the Former Greenberg Shows.

Steve

[cmrproducts]

The Erie train show is the first Sunday of March (3/5/06)

And (I think) Div 5 of the NMRA puts on a good show at Lakeland College at Kirkland in March also

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

Haven't been to a good one in years... As you say, overpriced and a sea of orange boxes. Gone are the days when you could find other people's 'trash' that was a treasure to you...

As in many other things, I see shows having been 'superstored.' The big traveling shows like Greenbergs that can afford to take out ads and pay for calendar listings in MR dominate. The little club shows, flea markets, train swaps and stuff just got over-marketed by the big guys, the same way your local hardware store got whacked by Home Depot...

[CNJ831]

Simon1966 has the situation pretty much in its proper perspective. For more than 35 years I frequented train shows and saw a dramatic evolution in them over that period.

As someone else noted upstream, train shows years ago were largely "garage sales" with locals bringing no longer wanted equipment and hard to find items to sell or even included estate sales run by individuals or club members. Bargins were plentiful...with prices as good as the best internet sellers of today.

Over the years the difference between show prices and those of LHS narrowed and finally show prices passed them. At the same time, travelling dealers entered the game, arena and table prices rose, Lionel and Large Scale took over most shows, and tax agents came in to claim their portion of the spoils. Likewise, as also noted above, very limited runs and RTR items have dramatically decreased the availability of many newer items and kits. Over the past half dozen years I've stopped going to smaller, local shows entirely, as I rarely find anything of worth being offered. Now not ALL shows are bad but most of the really good ones can only be reached through long trips and occur just once a year.

CNJ831

[MisterBeasley]

I still go to train shows here in Massachusetts. I don't go looking for a bargain on a hot item, but rather to look at (and maybe buy) some items I wouldn't even think to look for on-line. There's a guy with lots of figures and cars, and another with trees. They aren't great bargains, but I can see the product, and I don't end up paying shipping.

There are also some things I'm not ready for. A while back, I saw my first engine-cam, and later ended up buying one mail-order from the same vendor. (Yeah, I should have bought it right then, but like I said, I wasn't ready for it yet.) Another booth has those animated neon signs. Most of my buildings are still in unassembled kits, so I need to hold off on that sort of thing. There will be other shows.

Then, there are still some genuine bargains. I bought some structure kits, already at a good price, with a 3-for-2 thrown in. Some of the Scenic Express flocking and turf jars were about market price, but without shipping.

The last show I went to, I hardly bought anything. Still, I think the price of admission was worth it for an afternoon of strolling around, looking for ideas, and checking out the operating layouts. I left with a smile on my face.

[MichaelWD]

There is a train show in Erie Pa. that is usually pretty good. It is held at the Rainbow gardens in the Waldamere Water park. In is held in Nov. and I believe March. I don't know the March date. Nov. date was 11/06 The contact name is Carl Amidon Lake City Pa. [phone]
Mike Dickinson

[simon1966]

The only reason I go to train shows any more is to take the boys and look at the display layouts. The current business climate in MRR makes it very hard for a show vendor to meet the needs of more serious modellers. There is no point in going to the show looking for the latest "hot" locomotive release as most of thes are sold out on pre-orders and very few seem to make it to a retailer shelf, let alone a trainshow booth. With the mover to R to R so evident in the hobby, there are few vendors that carry decent stocks of rolling stock kits any more. Couple this with the business practice of companies like Horizon that wont even sell to a vendor if they don't have a bricks and mortar store. What I would like to see is a vendor that would specialze in details and scratch building parts, better quality kits from the smaller kit makers etc. It seems to me that most of the vendors carrry over priced used equipment (want to stock up on LifeLike, Bachmann and horn hook couplers?) and train sets.

From the vendors perspective, it probably costs less and is more profitable just to list the whole lot on e-bay!

[Trainnut484]

I understand your frustrations. There was a show here in Kansas City over the weekend, which was called Greenberg's "Great Train Expo". I did not go to it because it mainly advertised Lionel and other larger scale offerings (I model in HO). I've been to oher shows like GATS, but bargain findings are getting fewer and fewer. Now, it's like going to either a toy or model train parts show. [V]

I think an upper post got it right about the internet having better choices for HO, and probably N scale than the seasonal shows, and I'll admit I have found better deals (ebay and hobby store sites) than at some of these shows.

Just recently, I received a flyer in the mail advertising a local show coming up here in the KC area. Included in the title, it says "THIS IS NOT A FLEA MARKET". I guess some people wanted to sell some thngs other than model trains. Also, it is billed as a "Model Train and Toy show". Times have changed indeed.

I'm tired of toy and model train parts shows. [V]

Take care,

Russell

[ICRR1964]

Ive seen this a few times in the past few years here in Illinois to. Went to one last year that looked good at first, then I started to look at the prices. There was allot of venders there who were asking new price for used items.

I think this comes and goes from time to time at train shows. I vowed never to go to the one they have in the spring in Arcola again but went a anyway, and it was pretty good this last fall. walked away with some good deals.

[csmith9474]

Get used to it. The internet = garbage train shows.

[tstage]

Will,

Was that the one in Parma? I went to a similar one at Parma High School last month and it was exactly as you described it: Tons and tons of Lionel, and not much HO or N. Pretty disappointing. The N-scale modelers did have a fairlynice layout up though.

The most interesting part of the show was noticing one of the dealers was dressed up as a woman. [:0] (Howard was his name.) Pretty convincing looking until he started talking. I will say, Howard knew his electronics! Wasn't expecting to see that for the $4 entry fee. [:I]

Anyway, Will. In Cleveland, RAILFEST is held every year in March @ Lakeland Community College. This year it's the third Saturday and Sunday in March, on the 18th & 19th. I went for the first time last year and it's a terrific show [tup] with lotsa good stuff in HO, as well as other scales - EVEN live steam!

The main part of the show is in the large gym, plus two or three adjacent medium size rooms. There's usually a least a half dozen good size layouts set up to view. You'll definitely walk away with something if you come. The train show at the Berea Fairgrounds the first weekend in October is the other one. I've also been to one at the I-X Center but can't remember when that one is.

Will, if you do decide to drive up for RAILFEST, let me know. I plan on going Saturday AM. It would be fun to meet up there, if that works out for you.

Tom