HO scale concealed electromagnet uncouplers

[Anonymous]

I know MR ran some artlcles years ago about under roadbed electric uncouplers and I think a company called Cuda Technologies (out of business) made one in the mid '90s but does any one have some plans for building one that will actually do delayed uncoupling from under the roadbed invisibly.

I've been trying to modify the Kadee unit with some success but its not perfect.

Hand tool uncoupling is not an option for me.

I can't believe its 2005, we have great running, highly detailed, well made locomotives, DCC, and fantastic sound units, yet we have uncoupling technology which is still where it was 60 years ago.

Someone please help!!!!!!

[jim22]

I've got a between the rails permanent magnet which works on most of my cars - most have McHenry uncouplers. They are very touchy to adjust. Of course, the magnet is NOT concealed in any way. I've seen a picture of the under track permanent magnet, which looks like it could be concealed below the ballast. It's much wider, but I havn't tried it yet. The electro-magnet kit from kadee is more complicated than I imagined when I bought it. I havn't had the heart to cut a hole in my table to try it. I guess I envisioned the old Lionel decoupler, which was just a special track section.

Maybe we could invent an in-car system. Maybe battery powered (to avoid pickups on the wheels) and activated by infared LEDs in the ballast, just like remote controls for TVs. Maybe with a dual coil soleniod under the car pulling/pushing on the coupler to open/close it. Could we patent this?

Jim

[Anonymous]

No, a permanent magnet just won't do......way too many unscheduled uncouplings. Kadee has the under roadbed permanent but same problem. I've got the Kadee electros but they are unsightly (but they really aren't that tough to install) and cannot be totally concealed[. I'm trying to modify the Kadee electro with limited success.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jim22

I've got a between the rails permanent magnet which works on most of my cars - most have McHenry uncouplers. They are very touchy to adjust. Of course, the magnet is NOT concealed in any way. I've seen a picture of the under track permanent magnet, which looks like it could be concealed below the ballast. It's much wider, but I havn't tried it yet. The electro-magnet kit from kadee is more complicated than I imagined when I bought it. I havn't had the heart to cut a hole in my table to try it. I guess I envisioned the old Lionel decoupler, which was just a special track section.

Maybe we could invent an in-car system. Maybe battery powered (to avoid pickups on the wheels) and activated by infared LEDs in the ballast, just like remote controls for TVs. Maybe with a dual coil soleniod under the car pulling/pushing on the coupler to open/close it. Could we patent this?

Jim

[tatans]

Sierra: 60 year old technology indeed ! My sentiments exactly, everyone expounds on the marvels of kd couplers and their technology and I was at a train show recently, a fellow was wandering around a layout with a controller in his hand directing a bunch of trains, tooting and choo-chooing all over the place, then he put this gadget down and used a bamboo chop-stick to uncouple a car, I asked him what he was doing and how ridiculous he looked and he said this is how you uncouple cars, as before, I quoted the person that invents an authentic, workable, fair priced coupler will rule the MR market.

[SROC99]

Hello everyone,

Kadee is presently working on a modified #307 electo-magnetic uncoupler that will be completely hidden under the ties. It will be product #309 and it will use many of the same components of our current #307 and will still need to be recessed under the trackage. The only thing that will show is a couple of small screw heads on the ties. We showed a sample of it at the Cincinnati NMRA National last July.
It should be on the market in a month or so depending on how soon we can get the packaging and instructions finished and still keep up with all our other projects.
Yes, modern technology should be able to provide another system of uncoupling, perhaps completely remote for every coupler, however, modern costs are very high and how much would the average modeler be willing to pay. We have thousands of "modern ideas" we'd love to produce but the design, development time, and costs are outrageous. Of course, these costs would have to be recovered through sales and the product would be far too expensive for any modeler.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SROC99

Hello everyone,

Kadee is presently working on a modified #307 electo-magnetic uncoupler that will be completely hidden under the ties. It will be product #309 and it will use many of the same components of our current #307 and will still need to be recessed under the trackage. The only thing that will show is a couple of small screw heads on the ties. We showed a sample of it at the Cincinnati NMRA National last July.
It should be on the market in a month or so depending on how soon we can get the packaging and instructions finished and still keep up with all our other projects.
Yes, modern technology should be able to provide another system of uncoupling, perhaps completely remote for every coupler, however, modern costs are very high and how much would the average modeler be willing to pay. We have thousands of "modern ideas" we'd love to produce but the design, development time, and costs are outrageous. Of course, these costs would have to be recovered through sales and the product would be far too expensive for any modeler.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

This is a Godsend and just in time for my layout. I am almost ready to ballast the mainline and have been struggling to find the right uncoupler. The under the track uncoupler is fine for yards and sidings but I've had trouble using it on the mainline. If I use the intensifier plate, I get too many accidental uncouplings. If I leave it off, I don't get reliable uncoupling. I've tried the between the track model but I have to set it just the right height for my code 83 track. Too low and it won't uncouple. Too high and the coupler pins catch on the end of it. Besides they look so unprototypical. I can certainly hold off ballasting until this product is out. It couldn't have come at a better time.

[cwclark]

well since technology just won't advance when it comes to uncoupling cars I'm still stuck using McHenry delayed action magnetic uncouplers and bamboo skewers(actually a small jeweler's screwdriver..works the same) uncouplers...the magnet uncoupler cannot be seen after ballasting..I even have a spot of yellow paint by it on the side of the track to let me know where it's located under the track ....I tried to invent a better way using a rubber tube bent in half with to magnets shoved into the ends of it that I put between the cars to separate the couplers ...but this didn't work either...chuck

[jeffers_mz]

While the subject's open, any problem putting Kadee permanent uncouplers under curves?

If that won't fly, Plan B is to put the above tie delayed model on a bridge and call it a guard deck. Any problems painting this to resemble weathered wood?

Either way, these are on dead end spurs, where uncoupling is expected and normal, so no worries about accidental uncouplings.

[emdgp92]

There was an article in MR about how to hide the electromagnet uncouplers. I *think* it was in the early 90s. From what I remember, the uncoupler is made to look like an innocent pair of guardrails.

[SROC99]

jeffers_mz,

You can put an uncoupler under a curve but the couplers will not uncouple on a curve. The couplers need slack between them to uncouple and on a curve there will be presure against them since they will be bent to negotiate the curve and thus not have enough free slack to open. Also, they will not be centered to allow the uncoupling magnet to pull them open. Even on a very wide radius this will keep the couplers from uncoupling over a magnet. On certain curves and depending on the orientation of each coupler sometimes they will couple but not uncouple. Kadee recommends that your uncouplers be positioned on a straight section of track where there is enough room for your two longest models with the uncoupler between them.
Painting the between the rail uncouplers will not affect them. Depending on you artistic abilities, you can paint them many different ways to better hide them.
Accidental uncoupling occurs when there is slack between the coupler as they pass over a permanent uncoupler. Too light of cars, too much coasting, not enough drag at the end of the train, dirty track or such reasons that cause jittering and jerking of the train or a combination of these will cause unwanted uncoupling. If you correct these issues most if not all of you unwanted uncoupling will stop.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

[jharrison]

I realize that this is an old post, but since no one seems to have an answer I will respond. I made what is basically a "souped up" version of the Kadee electromagnet. I used thicker steel for the side plates, a 1/2" dia. spacer and bolt to hold them together, and wound my own coil using heavier magnet wire. I mount them (three have been in use for several years) after the track has been laid, completely hidden under the roadbed. I bore up through the sub roadbed and roadbed (Homasote) to within 5/16" of the top surface with a Forstner bit using a spacer block on the shank so I don't go to far. I power the magnet with a hefty power supply supplying about eight amps at twenty seven volts. I realize that this is a lot of power and can do damage if applied too long so I have an indicating light that shows when the power is on (to guard against a stuck switch) and try to limit the on time to about five seconds. It works like a charm. It's easy to wind the coil: make a "cable reel" from some Formica (free HD samples) discs held together by a bolt and spacer, chuck it up in a drill motor and wind it with the wire supply reel on an axle. The trick is to come up with the size of the wire and coil that fits roughly between the rails and doesn't overload the power supply. You also have to find a pretty hefty transformer and convert AC to DC.

[BRAKIE]

Deep sigh.Never mind.

[ndbprr]

Why is this needed? One of the few things we do that replicates the prototype is Hand coupling and uncoupling. I can see it now. A train stops and a brakeman calls the cab and say's ," set the box for car #346845. Uncouple" then the huge solenoid on the end of the car goes THUNK. Don, t see that happening soon

[jharrison]

 

Deep sigh.Never mind.

I'm sorry I bored you but I was just trying to respond to the original question. My layout was on tour at the last NMRA national convention and the uncouplers were a big hit. People said I should write an article about them but based on this response I don't think I'll waste my time.

 

[PM Railfan]

This probably isnt what your looking for but it is a working magnetic operated uncoupler. I posted a thread concerning this in another forum. In that post are links to videos showing the working couplers. Because of Youtubes inherent bad programming and unreliability I have moved the videos to my own site.

Its easier to email the link to the new site than edit all the links I posted in the aforementioned thread, then go find that thread. I cannot post my website link here as that is not allowed in the MR Forum Rules. If your interested, my email is in my profile.

 

PM Railfan

[hon30critter]

jharrison:

Please don't let a couple of somewhat negative responses put you off. Your idea has merit although personally I would integrate some sort of overload protection or automatic timer to minimize the risk of over heating. I know you have an 'on' indicator already wired in but that requires someone to pay attention - I'd be the one who wasn't

I do recall an article in MR (April 2002 - thanks to Dave Nelson for finding it) that showed how to beef up the Kadee electromagnetic uncouplers.

One suggestion I would make is to start a new thread on your uncoupler magnets. I think that when some people see an old thread being revived they tend to skip over it. I know I'm guilty of that sometimes.

Regards

Dave

 

[BRAKIE]

jharrison

 

Deep sigh.Never mind.

I'm sorry I bored you but I was just trying to respond to the original question. My layout was on tour at the last NMRA national convention and the uncouplers were a big hit. People said I should write an article about them but based on this response I don't think I'll waste my time.

 

 

Not bored. I just broke one of my rules by not checking the date or at least I should have caught "Anonymous" in the moniker place before I made a reply  to Sam of KD on how much I like the 148s and 118s and how I still use the between the rail magnets since they been serving me well since the mid 60s-that's been around 50 years ago.

If you or anybody comes up with a better and simpler way to uncouple cars (besides with those round bamboo sticks)  then  by all means share the idea. I only use those magnets for hands free uncoupling.

 

[IRONROOSTER]

ndbprr

Why is this needed? One of the few things we do that replicates the prototype is Hand coupling and uncoupling. I can see it now. A train stops and a brakeman calls the cab and say's ," set the box for car #346845. Uncouple" then the huge solenoid on the end of the car goes THUNK. Don, t see that happening soon

 

Already available.  I have it on my 3-rail switcher.  Just a matter of time before the smaller scales have it.

Paul

Paul

[BRAKIE]

IRONROOSTER

 

ndbprr

Why is this needed? One of the few things we do that replicates the prototype is Hand coupling and uncoupling. I can see it now. A train stops and a brakeman calls the cab and say's ," set the box for car #346845. Uncouple" then the huge solenoid on the end of the car goes THUNK. Don, t see that happening soon

 

 

 

 

Already available.  I have it on my 3-rail switcher.  Just a matter of time before the smaller scales have it.

Paul

Paul

 

Paul,MTH already has in HO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOU1hwM0bTo

 

[joe323]

Am I wrong I thought prototype railroads uncouple manually meaning someone gets out and pushes an uncoupling lever.  Thus using a bamboo skewer or such is as close as we get to the real thing.

[slammin]

jharrison,

I think the less than enthusiastic response is due to a ten year old thread resurection. When I see a response to a long dead thread, I usually don't bother to read it. Your ideas may see more interest if you start a new thread and post some pictures.

[BRAKIE]

joe323

Am I wrong I thought prototype railroads uncouple manually meaning someone gets out and pushes an uncoupling lever.  Thus using a bamboo skewer or such is as close as we get to the real thing.

 

Bamboo sticks is close but,Wouldn't want to risk using them with todays finely detail cars especially at $30-50.00 a pop and that's one reason I still use in between the rail magnets-zero risk of accidental damage.

[LEOFUTURE]

toothpicks or a permanent magnet I prefer the later

[dknelson]

At least one "beefed up" under the track electromagnet article is in the April 2002 issue of MR: "Add muscle to Kadee's electromagnet," by Robin Parsons Ertl.  I think there have been others, but perhaps as part of other articles or columns such as Clinic or Workshop.  

I for one do not mind seeing old posts revived if it makes the thread a more complete discussion of a single topic.  

Dave Nelson

 

[hon30critter]

Hi Dave:

That's the article I was referring to. Thanks for finding it. I'll edit my post again.

Dave

[jharrison]

http://rapidotrains.com/on-off-remote-coupler/

I saw this at the last NMRA convention train show and it worked very well. It can be installed after the track is in and only needs low power to turn the disc with the magnets. I think it would be easy to build one and maybe just turn it manually. With all the "super magnets" available now it seems to me that you could use more powerful magnets and mount it a little farther below the track (here I go again souping up an existing uncoupler). Then instead of a hole saw, a Forstner bit could be used from below, stopping the cut about 1/8 to 5/16 inch below the ties. Using the hole saw as shown in the video under existing ties scares me.

[hardcoalcase]

joe323

Am I wrong I thought prototype railroads uncouple manually meaning someone gets out and pushes an uncoupling lever.  Thus using a bamboo skewer or such is as close as we get to the real thing.

 

 

Actually, I have operating uncoupler levers on all of my Z scale, c.1900's 28' long narrow gauge freight cars! 

Jim

[jgraffi]

Yeah, it's so easy to reach some of those spots on the layout and try to keep from knocking into some detail you've worked on for hours AND THEN, put you full-sized hand into a scale scene and tell me how much you have sacrificed to make it "proto type". 

[Southgate]

I devised a mechanically operated permanent magnet uncoupler. The magnet drops away when not in use; no unscheduled uncouplings. When you want to uncouple, you use a lever on the control board to lift the magnet in it's slot. In can be invisible since it's all consealed under the ties. It works great for delayed uncoupling.

I have 16 on my layout. I do all uncoupling with these, extremely reliable. I can fill you in on the details if you like. It's inexpensive too. Dan

Edited in: I just realized this is a 12 year old thread. Still, if anyone's interested...

[Ron High]

I wuld be interested in how you built your mechanically operated ramps.

Ron High