Whats the deal with Tyco collectors ?

[kbkchooch]

Yes, it is an old thread but it strikes a chord with me. 1964, I got my 1st Lionel HO set for Christmas. A few years (and a thousand rubber band replacements) there was a new loco on the layout, an Alco C430 (Tyco of course) The Lionel became a tag along dummy unit. 

My layout, circa 1975

Since then I have moved From Athearn to Atlas to Kato to intermountain. But I still have and love my originals.

So, you take an MDC RS3 frame and stretch it, plop the C430 body with detail parts and a prototypical paint job on it, and The old Tyco gets a new lease on life.

Similarly, we find that Walthers FA chassis are easily fitted to the old Lionel shells. That gives them can motors and dependable gear drive.

Finally, I have take 2 Chattanooga choo choos and replaced the tenders on them, and cut off the smoke cams, basicly making dummy steamers. Even with a short train, double headed steamers look impressive! 

[steemtrayn]

Wow... Haven't seen this thread since Abramoff's guilty plea. I was wondering where it went.

[microbuss]

well let see theres the TV & movie sets Tyco made Such as Transformers, A-Team, Petticoat Jct, G.I. Joe 

Plus I collect them & some who used to have them as kids are adults now & they want to have their old trains back Me being one of them  

[tsgtbob]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Guys,I still have a old Model Power RS11 that runs smooth..I wouldn't trade it for a Atlas RS11..Why? That's the first engine my late wife bought me after we was married for Christmas..
Those old 2-6-0s and 4-6-0s wasn't that bad of a steamer in their day if one had the skills needed to tweak the drive of a steam locomotive..

wow. nothing more can be said here.
BRAKIE, I understand.
My wife bought me a pair of Atheran PAs for our first Christmas, in PRR. I still have them, even though I don't model the PRR. Will not get rid of 'em, bawled out my son (19) for asking if he could strip 'em for an SP paint job.

[emdgp92]

I still have a Tyco Baldwin RF16 that my grandfather gave me 20 years ago. It's no longer running the original drive though. I binned that and swapped in a Bachmann F9 train-set drive--motor in the tail, etc. when the Tyco power truck burned out. It ran well for many years though. Anyway, the Baldwin came with several boxcars that were painted up for Johnson Wax and advertised some of their products--Glade, Shout, and other cleaners. I've had the set for 20 years, and have only seen 2 others--one in a hobby shop, and one on Ebay. Going price for the set was about $80.

Even though my engine is no longer "stock" I'm not going to sell it. My grandfather died in 2001 after a long illness. When he was lying in his hospital bed, I brought the engine in to show him. He smiled, and remembered he worked for JW...yet forgot that he gave the engine to me. When I told him that, he was happy I still had it. That was the last conversation I had with him--he died about a week later.

Even though I'm not a Tyco collector, maybe most of them have memories--the first train they had, a favorite relative gave it to them, etc. It's also interesting to see the different paint schemes that show up on some Tyco stuff. I've seen New Haven E units (they didn't have any), BN E7s (totally wrong scheme), green Penn Central F units (the real ones were black), etc.

[davekelly]

Brakie,

I feel the same way towards the Tyco stuff that were my dad's. Funny how a less than perfect running engine and some terribly out of scale frieght cars can bring more smiles than the smoothest running brass steamer.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,I still have a old Model Power RS11 that runs smooth..I wouldn't trade it for a Atlas RS11..Why? That's the first engine my late wife bought me after we was married for Christmas..
Those old 2-6-0s and 4-6-0s wasn't that bad of a steamer in their day if one had the skills needed to tweak the drive of a steam locomotive..

[Anonymous]

If anyone buys a TYCO or Mantua the engine runs jerky (rapidly speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down), the engine isn't regulating the voltage properly. There's something called "Railzip." I have a TYCO AT&SF 4-6-0 and a Mantua ICRR 2-8-2, and a close friend of mine put railzip on the screws that held the tender trucks on, and the engines have run smoother (not 100%, but smoother, no jerking). The 2-8-2 had it's screws removed, railzip put in, and the screws put back in (the railzip needs to get under the screws). The engines have run great ever since.

[Anonymous]

I recently got all my old Tyco HO stuff out of storage at my Dad's. What prompted this is the fact that my daughter begged for (and got) a cheap Life-Like set. The best part is.....she loves that cheap P.O.S. every bit as much as I did my TYCO.

As I unwrapped each old engine, car, and accesory of my old TYCO stuff, I saw my father and grandfather building my layout down in the basement of my childhood home in the month or so before Christmas. Of course I had no idea what they were up to; before the track hit the plywood, I was evicted from the basement. But I remember them spending hours down there working on it. Then that moves me into all the wonderful time I had running my railroad, building new building models with my Dad, that horrible 1st do-it-yourself tree experiment, the HO scale WWII military battles that took place on my layout (sometimes the Germans took Harrisonville, sometimes the Allies held them off).

At any rate, I think you get the point. I'll be buying some TYCO stuff to rebuild a few of my most cherished childhood memories. I don't know what happened to the whistle, I'll need parts for my steam engine, what happened to the bulldozer that unloaded the big pipes? I may pay top dollars for these, not because I'm collecting TYCO, but because I'm collecting memories.

I hope I can build some memories that are just as good with my daughter and her Life-Like Trains Santa Fe set.......and if she pays alot of money to replace small pieces of this in 30 years will I think she's foolish? No, If I find out shes looking for these pieces, I'll buy them for her if I'm still around........

My .02 cents on TYCO, Fools, and their money........

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trans-Slam

I’m A Tyco Collector, and I’m proud!

....The tree brimmed with light and tensile reflections and I once more basked in the sight, smells, and sound of the best toy ever, A Tyco F-7 Santa Fe, pulling freight duty on December 25th 1971. Wow what a rush and a morale builder at that. I also purchased a BN Shark Nose, and a Kansas Durango GP-20 for $5.00 both not running and another Alco 1776 for a buck, same condition. I can’t wait for another hard day at work without the TV.

Cheers

December 25th 1971 was when I got my first Tyco. My wife was pregnant with our first child and I had told her he was getting a train for his first Christmas. Well she jumped the gun on me and bought me the Tyco 2-6-2 engine some cars, track, and power pack. The next day I found a copy of MR on the newstand and I have been hooked ever since. 34 years later I still remind her that it's her fault I'm model railroader[(-D]
Enjoy
Paul

(PS I still have the engine, cars, and power pack)

[Anonymous]

No one (including myself) will disagree with any of the good replies provided about how awful most of the stuff (particularly the locos from 1971-1990) performed. The post by TransSlam, I believe, sums it up for a majority of us between the ages of 30 and 50, although I suspect most will not admit to it out of of perceived shame or abject sadness. I don't think I could have put it any better than TransSlam, in how those sounds and smells take you back. After visiting my hometown days after Hurricane Katrina and trying to help my parents (in their mid '70's) start their lives over without their home of 60 years (or any of its contents, including priceless photos), It really put things into perspective for me. Stuff is just that: stuff. I love all 20 Banker's Boxes that are filled with Tyco and colorful RTR stuff as much as all of my prototypical Atlas, Kato, Cornerstone and P2K items. They both serve a needful purpose. Thumbing through any old Sears Wish Book from the 70's evokes the same feelings for me. And I think this is the point some of the well-meaning but slightly spiteful rivet-counters and Koester disciples miss; it brings some of us back to happier times, in a better headspace, instead of the bottom of a bottle (or worse). Maybe their lives are picture-perfect, with ample time to choad, guffaw and wince at whatever makes the rest of us happy. It's OK TransSlam...I like the old Tyco stuff, too. Pet that dog for me, keep highballin' that Alco, and keep up the layout. And keep smiling, brother. Others feel the same way, too. Happy Holidays, y'all.

[Anonymous]

I’m A Tyco Collector, and I’m proud!

So last night I came home from work after a hard day and didn’t feel like watching TV anymore. I have a 4X8 set up in the living room and I sat at my desk and started tinkering with a TYCO Virginian Alco I purchased at a model RR show a couple weeks ago. I paid 50 cents for it as it was not only a non-runner but pretty ugly and dusty, but complete. I took it all apart and cleaned it up, lubed the gears checked the wiring and in a couple of hours it was tearing around the track at a scale speed of 150 mph with the cab light just glowing, casting shadows around the walls from structures and cars on the layout. The lights were dim, the fireplace was emitting a warm heat, and my Siberian Husky was curled up at my feet. And then it happened. I think it was from the speed and the sight of that Tyco engine just flying around the track, but more than likely it was the sound emitting from the hollow body and open chassises that took me back 30 years to the Christmas mourning when I received my first Tyco set. Mom and Dad were still married and my siblings still talked to each other. The tree brimmed with light and tensile reflections and I once more basked in the sight, smells, and sound of the best toy ever, A Tyco F-7 Santa Fe, pulling freight duty on December 25th 1971. Wow what a rush and a morale builder at that. I also purchased a BN Shark Nose, and a Kansas Durango GP-20 for $5.00 both not running and another Alco 1776 for a buck, same condition. I can’t wait for another hard day at work without the TV.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

I think we call old junk vintage for the same reason we say estate sale as opposed to yard sale. We can charge three times as much, or more. I checked my list and I only own one tyco engine ( scrap ) and four pieces of rolling stock, one is the operating crane car and tender. I do have three builings that date from the 70's.

[tsgtbob]

After reading this (20 minutes of my life, never to be recovered) I dug out some of my old Tyco stuff. The ATSF F-9s still ran, as did the '76 C-430. (remember the Buy-centennial?) So did the 4-6-2.
I recently had a friend bring me a Lionel SD-18 from the early 90s. Guess what, didn/t run. Electronics that cannot be repaired.
Another example was an Athearn GP-50. Motor burned up on it, now, Athearn motors are really easy to get, but it soured this guy on Atheran.
I like the Tyco stuff as a nostalgia item, especally the accessories. Most don't work anymore, but that don't stop me from finding more of 'em. Put it on the Stonycreek Valley line of Chessie? Probally not, but on a loop on the floor for the neighborhood kids, yup, I'll use 'em

[Anonymous]

Trains You Can't Operate -i'll use old tyco engines beyond repair for paint practice- thought about getting an Athearn F7 and putting the TYCO F7/F9 C&NW shell on it- i have one of those 50' BN boxcars someone mentioned on here and it's my favorite freight car- got it for $1.50 in the bargan bin at the LHS

[warhammerdriver]

OT: What is it with the italics on this BB? This is the second time I've tried to use them and they didn't work.

[warhammerdriver]

I have quite a bit of Tyco stuff accumulated over the years. Not because I collect it, but because family members knew eventually I was going to have my railroad and gave it to me.

Sometime in the next year, I will be starting construction of my first permanent layout. I plan to run those Tyco products at the start. Over time, they will be replaced. But as a beginner, they will serve a purpose--someplace to start.

As far as collecting it, I suppose everyone collects something. Who am I to judge?

[TomDiehl]

A scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" probably explains this situation best. The French Archiologist that was always causing Indiana Jones problems holds up a pocket watch. "What is this? You can buy it from a street vendor for a dollar. But bury it in the desert for 1000 years, it becomes priceless." Collectors of ANYTHING can come under this spell.

[davekelly]

How about the prices some idiots pay for old postage stamps. Some of them pay big bucks for, get this, foreign stamps. Just try using them to send a letter through the U.S. Postal System. Some of the bigger fools will even pay several bucks for a stamp that has it's value, 3 cents, printed right on the thing!!! Heck, some of them are even cancelled and thus worthless!! Talk about paying bucks for junk with no intrinsic value!! I guess P.T. Barnum was right . . . .thank God we're all genius' here!

[JamesPH1966]

Personally - I think a cherished toy from one's childhood (for example - my Tyco Royal Blue 2-8-0 that died after a month of running, got it for Christmas 1979) has more "intrinsic value" than, say, some $1,500.00 Purple Box product made in the 1990's and never enjoyed (check out what tinplaters pay for stuff). If Tyco is/was junk, so be it - it's better than buying most "collectables" (think about something like Beenie Babies - not collectability as much as obsessive compulsive disorder in action). IF someone really wants an old junky Tyco AND this person has enough sense not to get ripped-off, so be it. I think the problem isn't that the original product is/was junk but rather that the uneducated collector might want to check before paying an outrageous price for the item in question.

I think in Latin it's called caveat emptor...

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831Yes, there certainly are valuable antiques out there but junk is forever junk...except to the ignorant!

Or it may be that the ignorant think so.

It is not at all uncommon for the cheaper train sets of history to command huge prices today. Far fewer have survived than the impressive, more expensive items. Consider some of the early clockwork sets. Surving exxamples of some sets in decent condition may be numbered on one hand, but hundreds of thousands were made. They were made to be disposible junk. They have since become valuable antiques.

And no one is qualified to sneer at anyone else's tastes. Nobody.

One thing that should be remembered about some of this stuff, particularly Pre-WWII items, a LOT of it was given up in scrap drives for the war effort... Tin, Copper, Steel, Aluminum, Rubber, Paper, if it was in any way recyclable, it was used. Also, I could be wrong about this, but the buy it up and put it in storage collector craze hasn't always existed.. People have always collected things but not to the extent they do today.. Meaning, Toys were played with, as they were meant to be, and wore out, got recycled somehow, or simply tossed out.. For whatever reason.. Junior grew up, got married, moved out, mom cleaned out his room and tossed a lot of 'disposable junk' .. How many of you had baseball card collections in the 1950s that Mom threw away as junk??? THOSE, I believe, are some of the factors that make an item Rare, and to some, collectable.

I've heard this said more times than I care to count, "the reason Lionel collectors are so interested in the items is an attempt to recapture some of the childhood".. I suspect the same holds true for the late baby boomers as well with respect to Tyco (to keep the thread on topic)..

To restate what you said,

QUOTE: And no one is qualified to sneer at anyone else's tastes. Nobody.

My further [2c]
Jeff
[:)]

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831Yes, there certainly are valuable antiques out there but junk is forever junk...except to the ignorant!

Or it may be that the ignorant think so.

It is not at all uncommon for the cheaper train sets of history to command huge prices today. Far fewer have survived than the impressive, more expensive items. Consider some of the early clockwork sets. Surving exxamples of some sets in decent condition may be numbered on one hand, but hundreds of thousands were made. They were made to be disposible junk. They have since become valuable antiques.

And no one is qualified to sneer at anyone else's tastes. Nobody.

Palallin - The point of the discussion was never about peoples personal tastes. It was about whether or not the items in question had any intrinsic monetary value and that is quite a different matter that can be spoken to with some authority. When talking about Tyco trains, we are not discussing anything like rare Lionel or Ives trains from the teens, which were mostly of very high quality, expensive, and valued items even at time of their manufacture. What is being address here is literally cheap, plastic, throw-away trains from 30-odd years ago. They were never of any quality, ever considered as such, nor meant to be. Junk does not acquire value simply through age or scarcity.

CNJ831

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831Yes, there certainly are valuable antiques out there but junk is forever junk...except to the ignorant!

Or it may be that the ignorant think so.

It is not at all uncommon for the cheaper train sets of history to command huge prices today. Far fewer have survived than the impressive, more expensive items. Consider some of the early clockwork sets. Surving exxamples of some sets in decent condition may be numbered on one hand, but hundreds of thousands were made. They were made to be disposible junk. They have since become valuable antiques.

And no one is qualified to sneer at anyone else's tastes. Nobody.

Why does mere scarcity make something a valuable antique? About 10 years ago, I bought an old 1910 era toaster that still functions. I didn't buy it to be part of a collection, but because I was fascinated with the mechanism. It toasts one side and then you flip a lever and it toasts the other. As toasters go, it's very inefficient (i.e. a lot of heat is wasted). Once or twice a year, I'll make some toast with it and then put it back on display. I have no intention of collecting old toasters, this one just caught my eye with its ingenious method of toasting both sides of the bread. Obviously, the thing was built before someone got the brilliant idea of enclosing the heating elements and having heating elements on both sides of the bread. Despite its deficiences in terms of thermal efficiency, it's a well made item and should last for a long time. The only part that might need replacing in the next 100 years is the heating element and that's a not hard part to replace.

I paid $75 for this little gem. Like I said, it's well made and was not designed to be a piece of disposable junk. I suppose if it were a piece of disposable junk from the get-go, it would have sold for $750 ten years ago if scarcity were the only criterion. I have no idea how many of these things survive. Maybe I should put it on eBay to find out if there's someone willing to pay $750 for it. Maybe more. There's some dude asking $12000+ for an O scale cab-forward from the 50's (probably a Max Gray). That toaster has to be rarer than a Max Gray cab-forward.

Naw. It's not for sale. I kinda enjoy the ritual of making toast with it on occasion.

My only regret is passing up on all the Tyco junk and Lionel HO junk that was common when I was much younger. My retirement would be secure.[:D]

OTOH, if I could get my hands on a Varney Super Pacific for a reasonable price, I might. But only if I could get it for no more than the cost of a Westside or Balboa brass version of an SP P-10. The Varney Pacific was based on an SP prototype and the Super Pacific was ahead of its time. But then, again, it wasn't a piece of disposable junk, either. I've seen a number of the Standard Pacifics for sale, but not yet a Super Pacific.

Were I ever to buy a Varney Super Pacific, it would be because I'm fascinated with the mechanism not because it's a "collectible".

Remind me to tell you about the time my wife managed to pick up an old floor model Gramophone (you know, the kind you wind up). It's a beautiful piece of furniture and it still works. I don't know how she did it, but she got it for cheap. Included were several old records, including an original recording of Enrico Caruso (single sided at that). My guess is that the record is more valuable than the gramophone.

Incidentally, way back when, things weren't designed to be disposable junk the way they are now. Even an old wind-up train, if cared for properly, would last a long time unless there were some flaw in the metal castings/stampings.

Andre

[RedGrey62]

I, like so many others on this post, started this hobby in earnest with a Tyco train set. Mine was the Spirit of 1776. I had others and yes, the motors gradually burnt out. I got my first Athearn engine and it pulled a wide assortment of Tyco, AHM, and Athearn BB (also one Fleischman UP boxcar that had weird couplers!). I eventually gave all the Tyco stuff away to a brother in law who just wanted to display some trains on his bar.

A few years ago I was in a LHS, I looked up and saw a familiar Tyco box with a WM flat and 3 tractors. The memories it brought back were astounding, I was a kid again, with my empire laid out on my bedroom floor. I didn't buy that flat car, I'm into other aspects of the hobby now. But I can see where many of the baby boomers may be trying to capture a little of the magic of their youth. These cheap toys may not be valuable, but to some, they may be priceless.

Rick

[tsgtbob]

Ok, here's my .02
After the original Lionel folded up shop in Hillside NJ, some of the employees moved over to Tyco/Mantua. That included Frank Petit. Frank was one of Lionel's crack accessory designers (milk car if memory serves me correctly) The tyco accessories were well designed,, but made with such poor quality control the crapped out rather quickly. Same with the 70's vintage engines. Until the early 90s, the only big Alcos that were available were the Tyco 430/630!
I have several of the items from the 70s period, and yes they are crap mechanically, but the die work is above average for the period.
Remember these were toys, not scale models for the hardcore modeller. They also got many thousands into the hobby, and in that respect they were outstanding items.
I converted several C-630s and C430s to modern "blue box" Athearn drives, sitting on fabricated brass frames. I still run them occasionally, as the focus of my modeling has shifted from "freelance roadname" to a more prototype approach whth Chessie in the 70s.

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831Yes, there certainly are valuable antiques out there but junk is forever junk...except to the ignorant!

Or it may be that the ignorant think so.

It is not at all uncommon for the cheaper train sets of history to command huge prices today. Far fewer have survived than the impressive, more expensive items. Consider some of the early clockwork sets. Surving exxamples of some sets in decent condition may be numbered on one hand, but hundreds of thousands were made. They were made to be disposible junk. They have since become valuable antiques.

And no one is qualified to sneer at anyone else's tastes. Nobody.

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
[To answer the "Lionel" question, you have to remember, this is closer to antique collecting than model railroading. Most people that buy these collector's items display them, they don't run them.

No longer true: an increasingly large number of Lionel collectors are running their trains. And those will remain running long after most anything ever made in HO has long since died. The very first lionel O gauge train ever made (1915--now in the hands of Paul Wasserman, current president of the TCA) still runs as well as the day it was made.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

For two reasons, Dave. They are allowing themselves to be ripped off out of sheer ignorance of the object's true value, non-rarity, whatever...an example of the old adage that a fool and his money are soon parted. Secondly, and arguably more importantly, if others observe or see record of such a purchase it can establish an artificially high value for the rest of us when the next example is offered up for sale. I was into antique book collecting at one time and saw this happen repeatedly. I've also seen folks pay $200 or more for common repros of MR Vol. 1 passed off as the originals. It is also not uncommon that, once an inflated price is established because of some fool, it becomes a "standard" among sellers, who will not lower the price of the next example offered back to the real range even if the item fails to sell repeatedly. Yet another class of fools!

CNJ831

One of the interesting things that Ebay has done is to change the pricing structure of a lot of collectibles. Since it is so easy for anyone to sell to a nationwide market a lot of prices have come down. My wife recently got rid of some "collectibile" plates. Checking on ebay she found most of them offered for sale, but most of them closed with no bidders and the couple of ones that did were for $5. I suspect the toy train collectors market will self correct also.

The other thing that I've seen happen is that someone decides to redo an item that becomes highly priced. I've seen that happen with some books whose prices were getting high. For Example, "The Maine Two-Footers - By Linwood Moody has been rereleased in a new edition for $45. I had seen prices on the original as high as $175.

Enjoy
Paul

[SMassey]

While I dont collect Tyco trains they are the trains that got me into HO scale model railroading.My first set was the Chatanooga Choo Choo set that my dad bought as a christmas train when I was only 3 (1978) I still have it today (body is in great shape but the motor is gone and the trucks are missing the glued on sideframes) I fell in love with that train and always wanted to have a layout in my room. Now I am 31 and I have a layout in my room (it is in the master bdrm) and I owe that to the little toy orange and yellow GP-20. I would not say that I am a collector even tho I still have alot of my old tyco stuff. I even went as far as keeping my BN GP-20 on my dresser to keep reminding me that I had a dream as a kid of building my own Railroad someday. I now have my own little railroad called the South Massey Railroad and I thank Tyco for it.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

If someone sees something they want and are willing to pay a certain price for it and it makes them happy, why are they ignorant?

There's a scene in the movie "The Jerk" (Steve Martin as Navin Johnson, the white son of black sharecroppers) where his father takes a can of shoe polish and compares it to a pile of [censored] on the ground. "Son, that's [censored] and what's in this can is Shinola".

If someone's happy paying outrageous dollars for [censored] all the while being under the misapprehension that it's Shinola, I'm going to giggle. If that person is happy with [censored], that's fine with me. However, I'm not going to restrain my own enjoyment of the situation. After all, for me the enjoyment is free.

There are a lot of "collectors" out there who are apparently under the illusion that the stuff they are collecting is something of an "investment", something that will only increase in value over time. I suppose if someone pays $300 for a piece of Tyco junk originally costing $10, that it has, temporarily. Unfortunately, that piece of Tyco junk has no intrinsic worth. There's nothing of real value underpinning the price. Kinda like Enron, only people won't lose their jobs or retirement funds when the Tyco "bubble" bursts. Hmm. Of course, I suppose someone's retirement fund could consist of a Tyco collection.

The fact that someone is blissful doesn't mean they aren't ignorant.

Andre