Whats the deal with Tyco collectors ?

[dragonriversteel]

Over the past three months,while searching for kits on e-bay. I always run across collections of tyco junk.Whats the deal with them ? Are they filler cars ,for yards. Are collectors really keeping these loco's and cars for show and tell ? As a kid years ago,I had two tyco train sets...one was a Rock island baldwin sharknose,the other was a IC steel hauler. After they crapped the bed,so to speak.
I got rid of them...retired to the scrap yard. Whats the value of these make believe toy trains ? In my opinion...they were crap then and they are crap now. The only cool freight car ,tyco made and I still hunt for is the operateing clam-shell two bay hoppers. I just don't understand ,what the big deal is about these tyco loco's and car's. I do realize that they have been out of production for years,but sheezzzzzz,26 bidders and 300 bucks for tyco junk. I don't get it...I quess if thats your thing,you'll collect rolls of toilet paper too. This post is not intened to tick anyone off....just my opinion.What that saying...opinion's are like [censored] ,everybody's got one.

Patrick

[MisterBeasley]

Yeah, I've got opinions, too. I've also got 10 of those hoppers. (No, they're not for sale.)

I just won a Mantua observation car to round off my passenger train. I've had a baggage car and coach for 40 years, and I've been looking for that observation car at every train show since then. There was no Ebay back then, of course.

[GMTRacing]

I don't know what the motivation is for TYCO collectors anymore than I understand why people buy old Lionel. That said I still have all my old TYCO's because they have some sentimental value being my first HO stuff. No, not very good, yes, half the motors are broken because they were poorly designed and cheaply built. They will end up in a case above the new layout so I will be reminded every day how much things have gotten better. I can't bring myself to toss the stuff and after all it is my railroad. J.R.

[Berk-fan284]

My brother likes the 70's vintage cars with the advertising, I just seem to buy Virginian hopper cars at the local swap meets and the LHS that sells used locos and rolling stock. Are they prototypical not in this lifetime but they are cheaply priced and fix up nicely into rollers for a good sized coal train for cheap.

[TomDiehl]

Patrick, your memories of Tyco are from late in the company's history. If you back up into the 50's and 60's, Tyco was one of the better quality, low priced model trains. I still have several locomotives from this era and they run great. They're from before the Consolidated Foods buyout (when they went to junk). At the same time, Athearn was the rubber band drive, running at 200+ scale miles per hour, Rivarossi was high priced, poor quality. The only one that was equal or better was Bowser, and they were about twice the price. And brass, WAAAYY out of reach.

The easiest way to tell the diesels apart (by era) is to look at the bottom of the trucks, between the wheels. If the bottom plate of the truck is plastic, they are, or soon will be, junk (Consolidated Foods era). If the plate is metal, this is the better quality truck from the 50's and 60's that probably still runs today.

The cars from this era had a cast zamac underframe. Most other brands had little or no weight added. Lightly detailed, these added weight at a low center of gravity which made them track well. The Tyco 2 bay operating hopper car today easily goes for $10 each on Ebay (I'd hate to tell you how many of these I have). They track well (again cast zamac underframe) and the doors do work with the unloading ramp.

To answer the "Lionel" question, you have to remember, this is closer to antique collecting than model railroading. Most people that buy these collector's items display them, they don't run them.

[jeffers_mz]

I have one of those hoppers, I think. It's blue, BM road, operating clamshell doors actuated by a special piece of track, and used to dribble gravel all over my layout back in the 1970s. Except when it derailed, then it dumped gravel in piles. This time around I decided to go with a false load, and the glue is drying on it right now.

The couplers on mine are attached to the trucks, but it rarely derails. I'll still probably replace them with frame mounted couplers, but the cars that cause more problems get new trucks and couplers first.

FWIW, I also have a Varney gondola, not painted, but the plastic is the finished color through and through. It has trucks with real springs in them and the old style wheels with the larger flanges on them. It has problems negotiating one old Atlas turnout with a frog large enough for the entire wheel to drop into, but other cars manage there ok. I'm going to add a load and weight it, then swap out the wheelsets if that doesn't fix the problem, but I'm keeping the sprung trucks. Call me nostalgic, but this is the only car from my dad's trainset left, and it needs to stay the way it was.

I kow he had it at least as far back as the early 1960's, making it more than 40 years old, but he doesn't remember where it came from or when he got it.

[Soo Line fan]

Here is a link to some info: http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/index.html I have converted all my old Tyco rolling stock with Athearn trucks so they will stay on the track. If I had a Tyco engine I wanted to run I would just mount it on another drive. I guess that ruins the supposed value of it. To me it is more valuable because now it can be operated. Seems like every show I go to, tons of Tyco is for sale. Some items are probably rare but most are a dime a dozen.

Jim

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonriversteel

Over the past three months,while searching for kits on e-bay. I always run across collections of tyco junk.Whats the deal with them ? I do realize that they have been out of production for years,but sheezzzzzz,26 bidders and 300 bucks for tyco junk. I don't get it...I quess if thats your thing,you'll collect rolls of toilet paper too.
Patrick

Patrick, I think your final sentence defines the situation correctly.

When Tyco first separated from Mantua as a product, they were still items of reasonable quality for the perod. But as Tyco evolved into a toy train market item, in the 1960's, they became junk and far, far below the quality level of Athearn, Riv., or most anyone else of the day.

To collect them today might be a matter of nostalgia for some but it's mainly the equivalent of the toilet paper collector mentallity that drives the Tyco market. Very, very little in HO (outside of brass) is recognized as truly collectible and there is absolutely nothing about any Tyco product that is intrinsically collectible except in the minds of those who collect them!

CNJ831

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonriversteel

Over the past three months,while searching for kits on e-bay. I always run across collections of tyco junk.Whats the deal with them ? I do realize that they have been out of production for years,but sheezzzzzz,26 bidders and 300 bucks for tyco junk. I don't get it...I quess if thats your thing,you'll collect rolls of toilet paper too.
Patrick

Patrick, I think your final sentence defines the situation correctly.

CNJ831

If you are going to quote the final sentance, you really should quote This one..

QUOTE: opinion's are like [censored] ,everybody's got one.

Jeff

[ICRR1964]

I sold quite a few items last winter on Ebay in the Tyco part of HO, was trying to give it away, but ended up getting more than I dreamed for most of it. Most of the F units I had were in original boxes and had allot of bids, freight cars went from $2 up to $15 per car.
I have yet to figure out why they are bring so much money too. But there are people that want them.

Does anyone remember the Chattanooga Choo- Choo set? I got one of these for Christmas when they first came out when I was young. It ran for about 2 days and died from a burned up motor. I had it repaired 2 times, the motor! Gave up on the third repair and put it back in the box! These seem to bring top dollar on ebay now.

[joeyegarner]

I agree with dragondriversteel, Tyco was junk then and is still junk. My first trains were tyco and almost all of them are gone and I'm better off for it. I have seen people pay attrocious amounts for it on ebay. If I still had mine I would sell it all to the highest bidder on ebay. And another thing................why do people use the word ( vintage ) so freely when talking about old junk????

[IRONROOSTER]

"One man's trash is another man's treasure." Collectors have a different mind set and objective. Some collect coins, some stamps, some old tools, some bottles, some Lionel trains, etc., and some Tyco trains. In each of these cases it's the thrill or the hunt, completing sets, trading with other collectors, etc. that is the joy.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
... there is absolutely nothing about any Tyco product that is intrinsically collectible except in the minds of those who collect them!

CNJ831

Actually you could change that to say "there is absolutely nothing about any product that is intrinsically collectible except in the minds of those who collect them!". The collectible value is only what other collectors will pay. Admittedly that is more for Lionel than Tyco, but that's because more people collect Lionel.

Enjoy
Paul

[RMax1]

I buy them because I can get them for $1 to $3 most of the time. They are perfect for a number of things like practicing with the airbrush, kitbashing and just general running around. I guess the best way is to compare it to everyday dishes verses the good china. Most of the time it's just me and the cats in the room anyway and they could careless although one complained about something not being prototypical and I just ignored her ;).. I don't buy the engines only the cars.

RMax1

[jecorbett]

Collectors are probably not interested in the operational quality of Tyco items. Some collectors like collecting even older stuff from the first half of the 20th century. By today's standards, that stuff would be considered junk but age and the rarity of certain items are what makes them valueable to collectors.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

"One man's trash is another man's treasure." Collectors have a different mind set and objective. Some collect coins, some stamps, some old tools, some bottles, some Lionel trains, etc., and some Tyco trains. In each of these cases it's the thrill or the hunt, completing sets, trading with other collectors, etc. that is the joy.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
... there is absolutely nothing about any Tyco product that is intrinsically collectible except in the minds of those who collect them!

CNJ831

Actually you could change that to say "there is absolutely nothing about any product that is intrinsically collectible except in the minds of those who collect them!". The collectible value is only what other collectors will pay. Admittedly that is more for Lionel than Tyco, but that's because more people collect Lionel.

Enjoy
Paul

Paul, this raises a rather interesting point about supply and demand, when it comes to pricing. That point being, so much of Tyco's production has found it's way to trash cans over time, the remaining stuff has new found rarity, thus maybe even value.

Are people really coming out of the woodwork to collect this stuff? How much of this phenomenon is directly related to Ebay?

Maybe the train world has a new collectable. Personally I would rather collect early Athearn, including Lionel HO. Much more interesting.

By the way, I had one of those hoppers with the clamshell doors. Pretty cool concept, but well short of the action that Lionel could muster with it's size.

[loathar]

I've seen people collect less prototypical and more worthless looking and running trains than Tyco.

[cwclark]

I think it just a bunch of guys that don't know any better...maybe it's a nostalgia thing with them that brings back memories of the tyco set they had as a kid for a couple of weeks before it broke down...what's that saying?...a fool and his money are soon parted.....[:D] chuck

[Anonymous]

i have a TYCO engine that's been converted to a dummy after the motor went out years ago it's and F7 or F-9 Chicago & Northwestern it looks kinda neat (except those stupid trucks tyco had)

[MidlandPacific]

QUOTE: Does anyone remember the Chattanooga Choo- Choo set? I got one of these for Christmas when they first came out when I was young. It ran for about 2 days and died from a burned up motor. I had it repaired 2 times, the motor! Gave up on the third repair and put it back in the box! These seem to bring top dollar on ebay now.

The smoking 2-8-0 that's actually a USRA 0-8-0 with the pilot deck lengthened to take a lead truck? I got one for Christmas in 1978 or so - first model I ever got with outside-motion valve gear: that engine must have logged miles (real, not scale) on my first 4x8. It would creep right along on pulse power, although it needs work now. It's not as pretty as my other stuff, but I wouldn't trade it - too many good memories.

[rrgrassi]

I still have my old tender driven Chattanooga. It still runs well, smoke unit still works. The motor was a different story. I finally pressed in brass bushing to support the armature of the motor. That helped out a lot. It gets used as an "excursion freight train" now. All the cars have had the trucks changed out and the couplers are now body mounted(needed something to practice with). So it's pretty neat to still have the loco and cars from when I was a 5th grader. Do I buy any more Tyco stuff? Nope. With that said, I do not know why they cost so much on ebay. I've seen Tyco stuff priced high at train shows too.

[davekelly]

Anyone who doesn't value or buy the same things I do is a fool and is wasting his money. Kinda like the idiots that buy old foreign stamps - what good are they? You can't use them to mail stuff from the U.S. Some of them are even cancelled making them totally worthless!!! The kicker is that some folks will pay hundreds of dollars for a stamp that says 2 cents right on the thing!!

Just joking in case anyone thinks the above is serious.

[Darth Santa Fe]

One reason for Tyco stuff going so high in price is because some were pretty rare. The GM&O GP20 was only made for less than a year, and they are now selling for around $200 each on eBay.

For some reason, whenever I see a nice condition Tyco or an easily fixable broken engine, I show more interest in it than in a nice brass or Kato or P2K engine. I've spent a countless amount of time digging through the junk drawers in my LHS looking for cheap, fixable, low quality things.

[mustanggt]

QUOTE: I just seem to buy Virginian hopper cars at the local swap meets and the LHS that sells used locos and rolling stock

And speaking of those Virginian hoppers, anyone remember the Tyco Burlington Northern 50 foot boxcars? I have about 10 of them from various flee markets, and see at least a dozen or so at every show I got to.

[mnwestern]

I rarely buy anything Tyco now, but like some, I still have my first HO train set, a Tyco set, still in the box, from about 1969. It has a blue and yellow Santa Fe F-unit, a 50-foot El Capitan box car, a WM flat with culverts, a red three-bay hopper and a red ATSFcaboose, with power pack. The engine has the rubber traction bands (missing one now). Rarely run it, but will never part with it.
In those early years, I bought a few other Tyco cars, some AHM and a couple of Athearn. The Tycos were better than AHM. I've converted a few, especially boxcars, to Kadees by cutting off the horn-hooks and mounting the No. 5 draft gear box. They then run pretty good. Rarely have trouble with the all-in-one plastic wheel sets, (unlike Athearn which has as least one misgauge axle, if not more, on each car).
One of my favorites is a 60-foot Green Giant car. Once sold mine, and kicked myself until finding two at flea markets. I grew up 15 miles from Green Giant's headquarters in Le Sueur, Minn., the "Valley of the Jolly Green Giant."
I met people who are just starting out that aren't going to spend $30 for an Intermountain car or $190 for a Proto 2000 with sound, who like the Tyco. The cars are fine, for the most part, and at $2-$6, they are economical for beginners, especially for kids.
I usually recommend, however, that they spend a little more on the motive power and at least get an Athearn, and perhaps a good Atlas, Athearn or MRC pack if they aren't going DCC right away. (I have put some of my old Tyco packs to use, however, powering switch machines so that they aren't drawing on my good packs.) And I also recommend they avoid the brass track so common lumped in the boxes with the cheaper cars.

I once met a man who would buy a lot of the flea market junk boxes, get the stuff running, create a simple layout and then donate the works to some kid he thought needed a hobby. He did this several times. What a neat thing to do!

Really, we shouldn't be so negative of those collecting affordable Tyco equipment. After all, what does it say about the rest of us, if as many have pointed out that there really is not rationale for collecting anything, that many of us are forking out $30 for cars all put together for us, and $200 for locomotives all put together for us. Where's the modeling? Aren't we really collectors, now rivaling the most expensive Lionel or Standard guage stuff. Have you priced some of the Broadway Ltd. locos in HO lately. When the train collection is worth more than the house above it, something is wrong with the picture.

[cbq9911a]

Tyco trains - when they are good, they are very, very, good. But when they are bad they are horrid. I've got a B & O Royal Blue Pacific and a (reboilered) Royal Blue Mikado. Both good runners; better than anything in RTR HO steam prior to 1990.

For the bad, a Tyco GG1. I bought one because of its sheer badness; it's an awful model as far as looks go (but it's a reasonable runer - not as good as Athearn BB, but better than Lima or Model Power). But it has 5 stripes like the real GG1.

The operating hopper cars are cool. I've got around a half dozen of them. I was able to find the special actuator and installed it on a coal trestle on my layout. Still need to try it out with real coal, though.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

I've seen people collect less prototypical and more worthless looking and running trains than Tyco.

Yeah, Lionel.

[andrechapelon]

Have you priced some of the Broadway Ltd. locos in HO lately. When the train collection is worth more than the house above it, something is wrong with the picture.

Yes, I have. I own one (Santa Fe #3751) and paid $270 for it at my favorite LHS. Adjusted for inflation, the price is no worse than a $49.50 PFM Southern Ps-4 from the early 60's. In fact, it's a better deal since it's sound equipped and already painted. Nobody's ever offered a kit for either the Southern or the Santa Fe loco. To the best of my recollection, the only 4-8-4 kits ever offered were Varney's lump of brass in the 1950's and the current Bowser offering (which has some serious shortcomings).

Did you ever see the prices of Varney locomotive kits from the 50's? A friend of mine has a Varney Super Consolidation (the one based on a Reading I10sa, not the "Old Lady"). The thing was definitely not cheap (see below)

I scored a 1950 vintage Varney Casey Jones off EBay a few weeks ago. It's been around the block a few times and is going to be rebuilt and super-detailed. In the box on the back side of the tender instructions is a 1950 price list for some Varney kits.

1. Super Consolidation - $57.50 (without tender)

2. Super Pacific - same price also sans tender.

3. Super Mikado - 1 buck more. No tender.

NOTE: The above were equipped with an enclosed 7 pole skew wound motor and gear box. They also had sprung drivers.

4. Economy Northern: $49.75. No tender

5. Standard Pacific: $41.75. No tender. (There are several on auction at EBay now. They do include tenders).

6. Economy Mikado: $41.75. No tender.

Tenders for these engines ranged in price from $3.75 for the 32 foot tender (like the one that comes with the Bowser Casey Jones and Old Lady) to $9.00 for a semi-Vanderbilt.

Compared to wage levels in 1950, these are outrageously expensive. In 1950 my dad was making $175/month.

There is one thing that's too bad about the demise of Varney. They had sets of self quartering drive wheels on 1/8" axles. Those would really come in handy for locomotive regearing projects.

As for modelling, there's nothing that says a stock RTR model has to remain stock. After all, Iain Rice created a Central Vermont N-5a from a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0. Athearn's 2-8-2 has appeared in print in the guise of a UP version and L&N version (Model Railroader) as well a Chicago and Illinois Midland version (RMC). John Pryke re-detailed a P2K USRA 0-8-0 to match a New Haven prototype.

Sometimes I wish MR would reprint some really old articles. Like the one Malcolm Vordenbaum did sometime in 1957. He had taken several Penn-Line (now Bowser) Pennsy prototype locos, filed off the Belpaire fireboxes and detailed them with Kemtron (now PSC) castings to make some really attractive locomotives. Admittedly, they were free-lanced, but they sure did look good.

Sometimes it doesn't take much to make a stock loco look different. Roger Traviss added an air tank to the pilot deck and extensions to the coal bunker on this Spectrum 2-10-0: http://tinyurl.com/d79m2

2-8-0 with shortened tender: http://tinyurl.com/bueeg

Andre

[AntonioFP45]

Got rid of all of my 1970s Tycos. I kept one Santa Fe wood deck flat car for sentimental reasons as it was from my dad. I'm converting it into a "freelance" SCL M.O.W car. I do regret not keeping the F9 shell as it was "workable".

My wife's cousin "updated" some of his Tyco and old Bachmann cars. They do look better with the P2K trucks and body weathering.

As for me, I'll use Tyco, Bachmann, and LifeLike (non-Proto) rolling stock shells as Air Bru***esters.

[choochin3]

I thought model railroading was supposed to be FUN!!!!
No matter what scale,gauge,or other.

Carl T.

[jeffers_mz]

My dad probably has the largest collection of brass garden hose nozzles on earth.

Ask him why and he can't tell you.

Just bitten by a bug I guess.