Do cheap couplers annoy you?

[hdtvnut]

I now have a large box full of lousy HO couplers with plastic knuckle springs which I have been
pulling off cars made by Walthers and Athearn, some carrying list prices as high as $40, replacing
them with Kadees. These "finger" spring couplers are delicate, easily damaged, and are certain
to fail with much use. The brake hoses can twist out of position. The shanks can deform under
heavy load or from accidents. I won't name the brand, but it sounds Scotish.

If a mfg. wants to put this stuff on low-cost cars, that's one thing. But Athearn Genesis?
Walthers $35-40 Bud cars? Why not charge a little more for the car and give us something we won't
immediatly want to change?

How many of you feel the same way? I have given my two cents worth months ago to a Walthers
product manager, but one complaint is easy to ignore. Maybe if more dissatisfied people among us
let these guys know how they feel, they will get the message.

Hal

[Fergmiester]

Oh yah! If it isn't KD get rid of it. Some of my most (about 90%) spectacular derailments and pile ups are as a result of faulty cheap plastic couplers. Those little brass springs make the world of difference.

And yes it annoys me to no end when I buy an expensive Loco and get a cheap plastic coupler with it.

Fergie

[joeyegarner]

I have been replacing these couplers for the last 3 months, I spent some money on them about 5 or 6 (been on break from the hobby) years ago because hey! Kadees are just to expensive!?!?! Lesson learned buy cheap buy twice. I would not spend one dime on anything other than a Kadee now.
Now, I really don't care what the manufactures put on thier products I can replace them myself. I have not seen a Loco or peice of rolling stock I couldn't get one (Kadee)on yet

[rolleiman]

People have been griping about this for years.. I always figured, even with an Athearn BB kit, i would be willing to pay the $1 extra if KDs were simply included.. That's about, at the time, what I was paying to put them on the cars instead of the NMRA types.. I agree with everyone above, the plastic knockoff types are simply garbage.

Jeff

[John Busby]

Hi all
Any coupling that is cheap and nasty and is prone to failure is rubbish
I have never worried about type much
However kadees are not the be all and end all as far as couplings are concerned
There are other types around that are good quality and reliable which is what the main thrust of this thread seems to be.
That quality reliable couplings should be on stock you pay good monry for not the
cheap carp particularly on the expencive items where they spoiled them by supplying
el cheapo couplings
regards John

[jsoderq]

The reason you don't get Kadees as oem is Kadee does not supply in large quantities.The manufacturing process is much more involved than the plastic couplers. This has been posted many times before.

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut

I won't name the brand, but it sounds Scotish.

I'm Scottish. I use nothing but Kadees, though.

I really hate it when I have to replace the couplers on a brand-new engine because they've failed after a month of light service. But, I really love it when the engine is back on-line with Kadees. Failure of non-Kadee couplers is like death and hard disk failiures - it's not IF they will happen, it's just WHEN.

[ProtoWeathering]

QUOTE: Do cheap couplers annoy you?

No, but they sometimes make me itch...

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi all

There are other types around that are good quality and reliable which is what the main thrust of this thread seems to be.

regards John

Name them...

[Anonymous]

Those couplers get on my nerves too - a pack of Kadee #5s costs £2.50 over here, and that has to cover packing them, shipping them, etc. Surely if model manufacturers were to factory fit them on RTR stock and include them in kits the extra cost per unit would be tiny? I'm guessing around £1 extra per item of stock at most, as they'd be able to order bulk tubs of couplers from Kadee.

[ICRR1964]

I'll never forget the day I spent a cold winter day at the work bench replacing all the couplers on all my freight and engines to a cheap brand of couplers. spent the next 4 weekends adjusting each one of them, and had nothing but problems! Allot of work done for nothing I thought. Then I bought the Kadee couplers, problem solved!![^]

[ARTHILL]

I had this discussion in 1966. The only reason all my stuff does not have KDs is because I keep doing other things first. I have wondered why no one else has figured out how to make a good coupler.

[icmr]

YES. Fergmiester is right, if it is not KD then get rid of it.



ICMR

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

Yes.

[samgolden]

KD are the best in my book. My biggest gripe is: KDs have been around for so long, why don't the rolling stock manufacturers make the coupling box compatable so you can just change them without having to fit a special (underset or overset) coupler in order to get the height requirement. I can see using different length couplers but not the height. I don't think I have ever seen a Prototype coupler that the height was off set.

Sam

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by samgolden

KD are the best in my book. My biggest gripe is: KDs have been around for so long, why don't the rolling stock manufacturers make the coupling box compatable so you can just change them without having to fit a special (underset or overset) coupler in order to get the height requirement. I can see using different length couplers but not the height. I don't think I have ever seen a Prototype coupler that the height was off set.

Sam

\We all prefer Kadee's for their reliability and they are no doubt the standard for the industry for over forty years.

The new kids on the block are trying to make a living and offering lower cost items, but we keep replacing them because we really want the best.

I noticed BLI and Overland install Kadee's along with the cars Kadee makes. The new Zephyr cars have Kadee's.

At least some of the companies are getting the idea.

Next time you send an email to one of the importers, let them know we prefer KD's on all of our locomotives and cars.

[nbrodar]

Kadee's by far, but there are a couple of places that I use the EZ-Mate Mrk II (with the KD like spring). What ever comes with the Athearn cars never stay coupled.

Nick

[Pruitt]

I don't even think about the couplers on rolling stock, since I change them when I build the kit anyway. If I went for the RTR cars, it might be different....

[cjcrescent]

jsoderq wrote:

QUOTE: The reason you don't get Kadees as oem is Kadee does not supply in large quantities.The manufacturing process is much more involved than the plastic couplers. This has been posted many times before.

This is true. The KD factory runs at capacity most of the time. They physically cannot turn out more couplers. The reason they come on SOME manufacturers kits and RTR is the numbers required are so low that KD can still supply them and the general market. Just think of the number of cars and locos Athearn makes in a production run. Add to that Accurail, P2K, Walthers etc. That would eat up entire production runs of KDs. Are you willing to give up the ability to be able to go to your supplier and not be able to buy them separately for a loco/car that needs them? Not me.

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut

I won't name the brand, but it sounds Scotish.

I'm Scottish. I use nothing but Kadees, though.

Being Scottish doesn't mean you're CHEAP! It mean you expect your dollars worth!!

Fergie

[jecorbett]

It wasn't that long ago that horn hook couplers were the standard coupler included with most kits and RTR equipment and serious modelers figured anytime you bought a new item, you got a set of KDs to put on it. I'm just glad KD compatible couplers are now the standard. I use whatever the manufacture supplies. If it works, I leave it alone and if it causes me trouble, I replace it with a KD.

[selector]

I'm with jecorbett. I try to keep my costs down, so I will use whatever they suppy between cars (like the MDC Harriman'), but swap them out with Kadees where they mate to the rest of my kadee'd train, including locos.

[jrbernier]

If Kadee 'wanted' to increase their production capacity, I am sure they would have no problem getting a bank load to finance it. What they do not want to do is provide couplers at a very low discount price for OEM. They want to keep a certain profit margin, and they have a product that has not been duplicated in reliability so far. So there is no incentive to 'deal' at this time. When the first 'clones' arrived, Kadee went as far as hold the line on prices and then offer discounted 'bulk packs'. I think Athearn approached them when they started the 'Genesis' line and could not work out a 'deal' at that time.
Myself? I always replace the 'living spring' McHenry coupler that are on my engines with a solid Kadee coupler. I replace the 'clones' on any freight cars as soon as I have a problem. What I have noticed is that the Accurail 'Accumate' coupler seem to preform fine(a little over size...). I do use some of the newer McHenry/EZmate 'coil' spring couplers on some applications, due to mounting insulation requirements. I have noticed that these newer couplers have a stronger 'shank' and perform as good as a Kadee coupler. For most applications I use a metal Kadee(bulk packs of #5's) - I can buy them discounted for the price of the clones(or darn close...).

Jim Bernier

[tatans]

Here we go again, it seems at least once a month a theme on couplers erupts, does this not register as a major problem with model railroading? there seems to be a steady tirade of complaints about how bad couplers are and I must agree, and I mean ALL couplers, manufacturers will not come to a standard attachment receptacle for all couplers,(who knows why not?) and it seems to be a hit and miss everytime a train is run.---just how much time is wasted re-coupling cars???--- I have ranted about this problem before, If kd is the standard, to me it seems to be the better of a bad bunch of couplers, does mean there is no room for improvement??? (uncoupling a car with a small stick? c'mon guys) sure hope out there somewhwere, someone is working on a good looking, completely workable, economical, correct coupler, when they do I shall buy them, and so will a lot of other people.

[BRAKIE]

Bad couplers doesn't bother me..I been changing out couplers to KD since the 60s..It's a well known fact that KD will not supply couplers to the ALL manufacturers but,every time this subject comes up there is that age old cry that falls on deaf ears just has it done over the past years...

Hal,If the manufacturers did use KD couplers that would add to the price and guess what? There would be complaints about that to.[:(]


I do agree with tatans we do need a better coupler.[:D]

[TomDiehl]

Cheap couplers don't bother me at all. Probably because I don't use them. I started converting to the Kadee brand couplers in the late '60's (yes, I'm THAT old) and have never regretted it. The most recent experience I've had with other brands was the Walther's brand of HO Superliner models. These come with the Bachman E-Z Mate couplers and were quickly replaced with the Kadee's when I experienced constant uncoupling on the helix grade because the coupler shank would twist or bend.

On my equipment, they either work or get replaced.

[Anonymous]

You MEAN Mc Henrys? oh.. pardon me Mc Breakems.

Kaydees ALL THE WAY.

I tolerate those cheap plastic wanna-be's until they break.

I get VERY incensed when I see a 450.00 engine with all the bells and whistles (Literally) riding on a McHenry instead of a honest by gawd Kaydee.

I should redirect this topic to "Why isnt Kaydee doing business with every factory to BUILD thier couplers into each and every retail item??" Save us all the trouble at the workbench with the gazillion little issues such as which coupler goes where and how.

I can see myself looking at mc henrys and a million Kaydee wanna bes 50 years from now. And it was 30 years ago Horn and Hook couplers were the bane.

Now if only they will equipt the cars with metal (Quality like "Life Like") wheels and adequate weight. When I purchase a 50 foot flat car and find it is only 2 ounces and tips off the track.. what a lip service to established guidelines...

[soapbox]

[fiatfan]

Sorry, folks. I can't go along with the crowd on this one. I have been using McHenry coulers since I got back into the hobby about three years ago. I have been using the newer style with the coil spring. I did come across one set with the wiper spring and can see where there could be some compplaints with those.

I actually broke one McHenry when the enigne fell off the table. Other than that, I have had no failures. When the couplers are adjusted using the Kadee height gauge, everything works as advertised.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Oh yah! If it isn't KD get rid of it. Some of my most (about 90%) spectacular derailments and pile ups are as a result of faulty cheap plastic couplers. Those little brass springs make the world of difference.

And yes it annoys me to no end when I buy an expensive Loco and get a cheap plastic coupler with it.

Fergie

Amen to that!!!!!!!!! [bow] You have no idea ow many times I try to run long trains over my rather steep grades, and they pull apart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And the culprit- CHEAP PLASTIC COUPLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][xx(][xx(]

[;)]

KADEE ALL THE WAY[:D]

[cbq9911a]

Not really. You get what you pay for. Sometimes I'll use a cheap coupler specifically because it's expendable.

What really annoys me are cars that aren't quite the right height for a Kadee #5 and that are a bear to adjust.