QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831 Casey, the point I was making was if you haven't participated in a club show/open house and experienced all the difficulties that must be addressed, yet are so fully willing to criticize various aspects of the ones you've attended, you need to take a turn behind the tables and see how difficult it is to do all the right things. Many of the responses in this thread, particularly those with lists of recommendations, are clearly from hobbyists that have never done a major club open house. ...
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 ...Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but I don't get this attitude...
QUOTE: So why not simply knock the folks who show up over the head and take their wallets, purses and milk money? I mean, if you just want their money without actually being bothered with the whole thing, that's a much more effective way. Seriously, you can't say that you're in it for money to a marketing guy... You get posts like this one! It's like hanging raw meat in front of a dog and saying "sit"... Not gonna happen...
QUOTE: You, my friend, have a marketing problem. And you are performing the chief A-number-one sin in my personal catechism: Failing to maximize your profit. For shame!
QUOTE: To me, what you have here is a group of people who are paying half your costs in return for 2 days of (very limited and seemingly somewhat grudging) access, while the members get the other 363 days, full access, for the same price... That's a sweetheart deal if I ever heard of one...
QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister CNJ: I certainly understand your viewpoint, but I don't think Mike was nearly as "condemning" as you seem to think. He asked a lot of questions based on his observation, but seems more to be genuinely interested in the standoffishness he encountered than in being critical or condeming. That aside, my thought on the substance of your post is this:: You clearly suggest what a hassle you feel the open house to be. Your frustration is nearly palpable. You indicate that it's difficult to operate the trains and deal with visitors at the same time. You suggest that you have people in who are not respectful of your layout or don't understand the proper care that must be taken... I'm not trying to be critical here. I really do understand all your points, and I really do think those are valid considerations. But in making them, you are clearly conveying that you feel the public visitors and the open houses in general are an unwelcome hassle for you.
QUOTE: Originally posted by espee3004 I have found that when attending open houses that people prertty much respond as I treat them. If I am a grump, they are a grump. If I am friendly, they are friendly. I have visited the club mentioned by vsmith both as a grump and friendly. Yes I was treated as I treated them. I do take into account that some people are occupied with keeping the trains we enjoy so much seeing running. Dosn't hurt a bit to cut them a little slack. Dosn't pay to say too much unless you have been there. Some clubs are better organized then others. Thats life. Ralph
Have fun with your trains
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister It goes back to the same point - if you're not prepared to welcome the public (warts, kids and all) with open arms, if you're not prepared to focus on the visitors rather than the layout and operation, if you're not prepared to fully focus on preventing... shall we say 'youthful enthusiasm' from causing damage, then what exactly is the point? What are you hoping to accomplish? why have an open house at all? The point? I can't believe you have to ask. [;)] The reason behind everything is...MONEY. Yep, cold hard cash. [8D] Can't live without it, especially a model railroad club. We charge admission for our Open Houses, and we charge table rentals to any dealers that show up (we can fit about 40 tables inside the club as of now). Our annual club budget is in the $30,000-range, and these Shows/Open Houses bring in almost half of our revenues. Sure, we get something out of it besides money. We like running trains, sharing our hobby, hanging out with our friends and fellow members, talking trains, showing off our stuff, getting the next generation involved, all of it. But the be-all and end-all is money. Simply put, we need it, and Open Houses and Shows are the best way for a model railroad club to get it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister It goes back to the same point - if you're not prepared to welcome the public (warts, kids and all) with open arms, if you're not prepared to focus on the visitors rather than the layout and operation, if you're not prepared to fully focus on preventing... shall we say 'youthful enthusiasm' from causing damage, then what exactly is the point? What are you hoping to accomplish? why have an open house at all?
QUOTE: If your club is going to have an open house then it should be an open house not an operating session with people watching. New people want to see trains run.
QUOTE: Have some running that don't require mission launch attention and have people with no other function than to greet guests.
QUOTE: Too many 'open houses' I've been to really should have been called "we want you to stand in awe of our amazing layout, shut up, and watch us play"...
QUOTE: I certainly understand your viewpoint, but I don't think Mike was nearly as "condemning" as you seem to think. He asked a lot of questions based on his observation, but seems more to be genuinely interested in the standoffishness he encountered than in being critical or condeming.
QUOTE: You clearly suggest what a hassle you feel the open house to be. Your frustration is nearly palpable. You indicate that it's difficult to operate the trains and deal with visitors at the same time. You suggest that you have people in who are not respectful of your layout or don't understand the proper care that must be taken...
QUOTE: It goes back to the same point - if you're not prepared to welcome the public (warts, kids and all) with open arms, if you're not prepared to focus on the visitors rather than the layout and operation, if you're not prepared to fully focus on preventing... shall we say 'youthful enthusiasm' from causing damage, then what exactly is the point? What are you hoping to accomplish? why have an open house at all?
QUOTE: 1. Come up with a point to it all. It’s got to be more about showing off your trains. Perhaps showing off the hobby? Create a theme for the open house.
QUOTE: 2. Once you have your purpose (point), then it’s time to accommodate it. Place your most outgoing people (who shower regularly ) at a place where they will effectively engage the visitors. Keep your old “grumps” and more intense members on the throttles in the background. HINT: If you are the type of person who gets bothered by a visitor asking a question while you're on the throttle - then stay in the background because you are likely a grump.
QUOTE: 3. Clean the place up. Remove all clutter and/or obstacles.
QUOTE: 4. Consider running guided tour groups at intervals.
QUOTE: 5. If your club is tight for space (as most are), consider controlling how many people are allowed in at any given time. Nothing turns off people more than a crowded room in which it gets too frustrating to move around.
QUOTE: 6. Anticipate kids. Know that they will inevitably reach and try to touch things, and that their parents won’t be attentive to them. Put fragile items out of reach. Consider putting up Plexiglas around those sensitive areas so they can look but can’t touch.
QUOTE: 7. Place plenty of benches and/or step stools for kids so they can see the layout.
QUOTE: 8. Clearly mark areas that people should not be in, but don’t go overboard. The last thing you want is too long a list of DONT’S. It leaves a bad impression with people.
QUOTE: 9. Remember that it’s a public showing, and if it’s not kids it will be careless adults causing potential trouble. So use some common sense and rethink running your expensive brass or prize trains unless there is little chance of them being interfered with.
QUOTE: 10. Look like your having fun. People DO pick up on this.
QUOTE: Its an Open House not an operating session. I've been to some are where the layout had 2 (or so) continuous loops, they ran one train in each direction, Yep only 2 trains, at a set speed, every hour they would pull one onto a siding and then move another onto the loop. What this did was allow the operator to just let the train run without constantly adjusting it for fiddling with switches or such, and they were then more free to talk with visitors.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman .... And some people wonder why I wouldn't open my Home to the public on one of these tour routes.. This and the experience Paul3 relayed, are good enough reasons for me.. A little off topic I know, I still wouldn't join a group of grumpy old men, I'll be one soon enough myself.. Jeff
QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark I understand where you are coming from..I also went to two layouts this past weekend and have come to the conclusion that it's the individual not the group as a whole...the first layout i visited was a very well done HO layout but the host was a a bit preoccupied and was more interested in talking to his buddies there than any outsider...maybe it was a fear of strangers in his layout domain..I really can't tell you...the second layout i went to was another well done layout in N scale..the host was very friendly and did a lot of talking and explaining what this was or what that was...I felt right at home in his layout...another thing i've noticed is that it may not be the individual at all, but the cause of the unfriendliness is the layout itself....some of the guys on the throttles where so busy trying their best to keep up with the trains running that they really didn't have time to sit and chat with the guests...you know how that is...walk away from the train and a disaster is in the making....I found this so true ..the guys running the trains were really trying to keep up with them that the slightest distraction would be the makings of a derailment or a car separating from the train...can't really blame them there....chuck
QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831 You think the model railroaders are an odd bunch? Deal with the public for a while! Every show brings in at least a few loonies! We had a guy who brought his own chair and set for hours, eye-level to the layout watching the trains go by and uttering strange sounds. You also have the folks that come by only to tell you how inaccurate your layout is compared to the Marx Christmas setup they had as a kid. We've even had some teens who came in just to see what they could lift off the layout, or ones who try to reach in and throw a turnout to create a head-on! CNJ831
QUOTE: Originally posted by Covina Mike I just came back from the fourth open house hosted by one of the clubs in my local area and this will probably be my last. I know this is going to open up a lot of impassioned discussion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why clubs open their doors to the public. My wife's experience in accompanying me to hobby shows and open houses is that model railroaders generally are a bunch of grumpy old men--a very unfriendly lot--and not a few of them are just a little weird. I get a little defensive when I hear that kind of characterization, but I'm beginning to wonder why it is that we come off that way. I know that many of us tend to be loners by nature, but at the same time, I would guess that most of us enjoy sharing what we really enjoy--model railroading--with others who have similar interests. That's why it absolutely baffles me that clubs will host open houses, presumably to boost their membership and to share the hobby with others, and be so unwelcoming to visitors. I think I am a pretty easy person to talk to. I've spent 25 years in the ministry talking to people and trying to make others feel comfortable. I don't think I appear to be unapproachable. I ask questions and show an interest in the work of others, and yet, in the four clubs I have visited, I have yet to have one person say, "Welcome." I have yet to have one person ask if I would have an interest in becoming a member. I have yet to have one person ask if I am new to the hobby or would like to know more about the hobby. In fact, not once has a member ever initiated a conversation--it's alway been me. It's almost like you're invisible at best, or an intrusion at worst. What gives? Am I missing something here--a secret handshake or something? Or, is this a hobby that is shared only among a few select friends? Just curious.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Covina Mike I just came back from the fourth open house hosted by one of the clubs in my local area and this will probably be my last. I know this is going to open up a lot of impassioned discussion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why clubs open their doors to the public. My wife's experience in accompanying me to hobby shows and open houses is that model railroaders generally are a bunch of grumpy old men--a very unfriendly lot--and not a few of them are just a little weird. I get a little defensive when I hear that kind of characterization, but I'm beginning to wonder why it is that we come off that way.
QUOTE: Originally posted by howmus Originally posted by cwclark but the cause of the unfriendliness is the layout itself....some of the guys on the throttles where so busy trying their best to keep up with the trains running that they really didn't have time to sit and chat with the guests...you know how that is...walk away from the train and a disaster is in the making....I found this so true ..the guys running the trains were really trying to keep up with them that the slightest distraction would be the makings of a derailment or a car separating from the train...can't really blame them there....chuck I think this is part of the problem. Not one thing in that paragraph sounds inviting to a guest. If your club is going to have an open house then it should be an open house not an operating session with people watching. New people want to see trains run. Have some running that don't require mission launch attention and have people with no other function than to greet guests. When we host an open house selling real estate we want the lights on and everything picked up and neat and the owners gone. I know you can't do that but the idea is so people feel at ease not unwelcome. Whoever is in charge should make it clear to the membership that it is an open house not a club meeting. If you don't want to be there stay home. Reply retsignalmtr Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Westchester NY 1,747 posts Posted by retsignalmtr on Monday, November 14, 2005 7:38 PM in the last month i've been to two club open house's and operated my clubs modular layout at a mall show and a semi large train show. at one open house the one club member in attendance had a hard time running trains without derailing due to many (obvious to any viewer) track defects. when i pointed out what the member could do to stop some of the derailments he imediatly got some tools and made the adjustments needed. i had a nice time there and he asked me more about my club than i did of his. i also invited him to come to my club on any meeting night. at the shows i was able to answer questions while running trains and if i couldn't answer i sent them to a member who could. several months ago we had an open house for a boy scout troop. we let them operate trains but it was hard to teach them about scale speed. we operate informally but all our members are outgoing and will answer questions and help promote the hobby. thats why we have shows and attend others. we are always asking people to come to our club and maybe join or just visit. i'd rather go to see an operating model railroad than go to a museum to see paint splashed on a board by someone who's been dead for over a hundred years. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 14, 2005 4:18 PM That's great (and the appropriate response) TA, but think about something else. What about the folks we see a fair amount of here. The "newbies"... Often younger, often trying to get started in their first layout, maybe someone bought them a bachmann box set and they're looking to go from there, maybe had a layout at home and now want to get a little more serious that they're on their own. Your 15-22 year old "I'm trying to learn" sort. Usually I am proud of the reception they get here... But think about it. What if you're that kid going to the local club "open house" to try and get involved with your fellow hobbyists? What if you're going there seeking some fraternal advice on your 4x8? What if you do not have the modeling experience, life experience, confidence to just laugh it off. Isn't it likely it will put you off the whole thing? Maybe you'll become one of the "trains are for kids and grumpy old farts" folks, buying the stereotype? You don't get a second chance at first impressions... Many of us here can say "to heck with those jerks" and blow it off. I can say "fine, don't invite them back" you can say "I just laugh it off"... I'm not worried about us, I'm worried about the younger folks in our hobby (more specifically the lack thereof). Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 14, 2005 3:54 PM Well, there are all sorts in this hobby. We do seem to have more than our share of grumpy old men in my experience. And while I won't yet qutie subscribe to old, I am a male and more than a big grumpy. I have been amazed at times at how inhospitable, and nearly resentful of my very presence, folks have been at shows, open houses and the like. Not always, there are plenty of good experiences. But the folks who act as though you're an imposition are common enough to take note. Now, when we're talking about guests at an actual operating session, that's a different story. I agree that having people hover and pester when you're trying to do something is annoying. But I like the idea of a "pinch hitter" to handle visitors... if you're not prepared to deal with visitors/guests in that or some other way, then you ought to impose and enforce a "members only" rule at op sessions. I have to agree with the original point here, though. If you are a grumpy old railroader, then don't have an open house, don't attend the open house, or suck it up, slap a smile on your face and act nice. (For me, the latter is easy, I just act like I do when my wife's family comes over!) Only semi-related, but interesting I think: Having said all that... The other way I use up all my free time is with vintage cars. And the folks at car shows put any model railroader I've ever met to shame. They not only have the 'don't bug me' and 'go away, yer bothering me' in spades, but often add a distinct element of la-di-dah to it: The type of car I own and my focus in that hobby mean I'm generally attending "concourse" shows. I restored and work on my car myself, but A LOT of the hobby in this arena is folks who can't even change their own oil, but who can write gi-normous checks to the specialists. It often boils down to a bunch of old rich guys playing at "who's is bigger?" (their bank accounts, I mean). I'm already a rogue in their company since I actually drive my car (the shock! the horror!)... But what I really love to do is watch the bored-out-of-their-minds kids passing row after row of "DON'T TOUCH ON PAIN OF DEATH!!!!!" type signs and then invite them to sit in mine, honk the horn, make "vroom vroom" noises and so forth. The look on those other guys' faces is priceless! Part of it may be because I also have the trains - after considering the damage an over-eager six year old can cause to a loco, and how long it would take me to fix _that_, I have a hard time getting worked up over "they might get a fingerprint on the gearshift!!!". Reply Edit SpaceMouse Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Rimrock, Arizona 11,251 posts Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, November 14, 2005 3:36 PM Hmm, IF all the memebers of my club were not really nice, I probably would not have joined. I can't imagine them being grumpy to the public. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 14, 2005 3:02 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Covina Mike I just came back from the fourth open house hosted by one of the clubs in my local area and this will probably be my last. I know this is going to open up a lot of impassioned discussion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why clubs open their doors to the public. My wife's experience in accompanying me to hobby shows and open houses is that model railroaders generally are a bunch of grumpy old men--a very unfriendly lot--and not a few of them are just a little weird. I get a little defensive when I hear that kind of characterization, but I'm beginning to wonder why it is that we come off that way. I know that many of us tend to be loners by nature, but at the same time, I would guess that most of us enjoy sharing what we really enjoy--model railroading--with others who have similar interests. That's why it absolutely baffles me that clubs will host open houses, presumably to boost their membership and to share the hobby with others, and be so unwelcoming to visitors. I think I am a pretty easy person to talk to. I've spent 25 years in the ministry talking to people and trying to make others feel comfortable. I don't think I appear to be unapproachable. I ask questions and show an interest in the work of others, and yet, in the four clubs I have visited, I have yet to have one person say, "Welcome." I have yet to have one person ask if I would have an interest in becoming a member. I have yet to have one person ask if I am new to the hobby or would like to know more about the hobby. In fact, not once has a member ever initiated a conversation--it's alway been me. It's almost like you're invisible at best, or an intrusion at worst. What gives? Am I missing something here--a secret handshake or something? Or, is this a hobby that is shared only among a few select friends? Just curious. I have lived and visited clubs in the Southern California area for thirty or more years, and have received most every type of good and bad welcoming to the open house events. It is not only the Model railroad clubs, it is just sort of the busy attitude that people get today and who knows what is the problem. Most clubs certainly do this out of tradition and outreach to get new people interested, but clubs can have a tendency to shoot their own feet so to speak, when their greeters are not friendly. I also noticed that many are my age and even a little older and maybe not really interested in taking much. This is sad when an open house is really open for all to see and you should be able to ask questions. Don't get me wrong, I put myself in that category too sometimes, but try not to show it to others when they are interested in something I might have knowledge of. I certainly have asked many questions at show, but only after complementing the high points and giving certain praise just to break the ice for the hard core members. I once was in a club that is now gone, and ran trains during several open houses. It was certainly fun to watch the kid’s eyes as they watched one of my GS4’s with the mars light working coming out the tunnels. It was fun to answer questions if you are not running and that is why they should have a host doing that. I visited the great San Diego club museum last year and was really overwhelmed by the gracious attitude of their staff. They run seven days a week fifty two weeks a year with only two or three holidays off if I remember correctly, but John noticed I was interested and never really asked about my background, he just asked if we wanted to come back into the layout and get a tour. We received a royal tour and they really have a fantastic layout to tour also. The loop was not completed yet while we were there, but the whole layout is so entertaining, I could watch it all day. So don't blame yourself, unless you know why you should, but just realize some of these people are not in Public relations. Reply Edit railroadyoshi Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Eastern Massachusetts 1,681 posts Posted by railroadyoshi on Monday, November 14, 2005 2:58 PM Hm, well, i'm hoping for the best on the 28th. I'm visiting Keith Shoneman's layout during the Tour de Chooch.He lives some 2.5 miles from me, 15 minutes on bike, 5 minutes by car. Last time I visited was 3 years ago or so. This time i'm hoping with all my heart that he'll offer me an oppurtunity to participate in an operating session![:D][:I][:)][:P][:P][:P][C):-)] Yoshi "Grammar? Whom Cares?" http://yfcorp.googlepages.com-Railfanning Reply 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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Originally posted by cwclark but the cause of the unfriendliness is the layout itself....some of the guys on the throttles where so busy trying their best to keep up with the trains running that they really didn't have time to sit and chat with the guests...you know how that is...walk away from the train and a disaster is in the making....I found this so true ..the guys running the trains were really trying to keep up with them that the slightest distraction would be the makings of a derailment or a car separating from the train...can't really blame them there....chuck
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.