Baldwin Sharks

[jeep35]

Over the years there have been a few releases of Baldwin Sharks in plastic, most recently E-R Models, but they have been somewhat disapointing. Has anyone heard if any of the manufacturers are planning on releasing a new and improved model.

Thanks
Jim

[jwr_1986]

I haven't heard anything, sorry. I wish someone would though they are very interesting. That and the baldwin centipede diesels.

Jesse

[KemacPrr]

The last Keystone Modeler put out by the PRRT&HS had some info indicating BLI would be doing some RF-16's in the future. No idea when but the PRR Modeling group has been working with BLI on the project.
-------------------------------- Ken McCorry

[cspmo]

Precision Craft Models is planning on coming out with one.
http://www.precisioncraftmodels.com/
Go to availability, & scroll to bottom of page.

[Anonymous]

There is a NICE set of Baldwin sharks (brass) on ebay right now in the PRR paint.
Out of my price range, but VERY nice.

[TomDiehl]

Depending on the work you want to do and how much you want to spend, there's usually some Tyco cast zamac shark nose units up on Ebay from time to time. If the drive is pretty bad, replace them with the Hobbytown of Boston drives, which will give you a great pulling loco.

I have 3 of these with the Hobbytown drives, 2 PRR and one NYC. Fantastic pullers.

[Anonymous]

I heard the Precision Craft Sharks were going to be the gorgeous Pennsy BP-20 passenger Sharks. I really hope that's what they do!

A state-of-the-art freight Shark would be nice too!

Roger

[Anonymous]

sharknose engines are beautiful. i wi***he new haven RR had some....

[jeep35]

Thanks Guys

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GEARHEAD426

sharknose engines are beautiful. i wi***he new haven RR had some....

Gearhead, it's YOUR railroad.

[Anonymous]

Many years ago I bought a number of sharknose diesels from a shop in Oslo Norway.
The owner wanted to get rid of them so I got them cheap at about 10 dollars each.
Although I did not model the US scene at that time I liked the look of them. I ran them alongside my european stock, funny trains you might say. Now as I have turned to modelling the US scene they will become real workhorses.
They are all from Model Power but made by Roco. I have had no trouble with them as yet. The roads represented are D&H an A+A set B&O another A+A set , and a A+B+A set which is in AT&SF Warbonnet paint scheme. I cannot find any record that the AT&SF had sharknoses, perhaps someone could enlighten me about that. If they didn't then I have a repaint job ahead of me.
William

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Willi-ro

Many years ago I bought a number of sharknose diesels from a shop in Oslo Norway.
The owner wanted to get rid of them so I got them cheap at about 10 dollars each.
Although I did not model the US scene at that time I liked the look of them. I ran them alongside my european stock, funny trains you might say. Now as I have turned to modelling the US scene they will become real workhorses.
They are all from Model Power but made by Roco. I have had no trouble with them as yet. The roads represented are D&H an A+A set B&O another A+A set , and a A+B+A set which is in AT&SF Warbonnet paint scheme. I cannot find any record that the AT&SF had sharknoses, perhaps someone could enlighten me about that. If they didn't then I have a repaint job ahead of me.
William

The Santa Fe never owned any Baldwin Sharknoses. To the best of my knowledge, only the New York Central, Baltimore and Ohio and Pennsylvania were original owners of Sharks. Mongahela and D&H got theirs secondhand.

Actually, the D&H Sharks were 3rd hand. D&H got its pair from the Monongahela.

Andre

[Anonymous]

The AT&SF never had any Sharks, but it seems that most every model train maker used to feel compelled to do most any diesel in Santa Fe's beautiful 'war-bonnet' scheme.

Only a handful of northeastern RRs used Sharks during their relatively short production cycle (NYC, PRR, Monongahela RR (ex-NYC units ?), B&O, and eventually, the D&H (former NYC & Monongahela locos, which may be in Mexico now ?). The D&H's 'warbonnet' paint scheme was highly influenced by the Alco PAs they also purchased 2nd hand around the same time from the Santa Fe (that had been painted in the Santa Fe's red & yellow 'warbonnet' scheme; the D&H just repainted the red in their signature D&H blue). Even way back when the D&H acquired both the Sharks and the PAs, railfans went nuts over it.

Automotive brake fluid will remove the original Model Power paint.

I have been gathering up a sizeable fleet of these engines (made for Model Power by Roco in Austria) and they are good haulers, after a proper cleaning and oiling as someone else already mentioned. What detail is there is well done, and there are some aftermarket parts to add more - esp. if one is modeling PRR engines. (check out Bowser for detail parts) The only real compromise I can see is the trucks are a tad short, for Model Power also used the same Roco chassis for their Alco FAs. The style of trucks for both the Sharks and the FAs are nearly identical. There are Kadees available for these engines as well - believe that #5s will work fine.

The Roco drive is somewhat noisy, but so were the prototypes - consider it a 'low-buck sound system', and I do not find it objectionable at all. If anyone can make a recommendation on 'how to convert those Roco drives to DCC, it would be very appreciated. . .

One should not mu these Baldwins with diesels from other makers (EMD, Alco, GE, FM, etc.) for the Sharks were unable to mu with them due to an incompatible mu setup (believe that the Sharks used a hydraulic type of setup - someone correct me if I'm wrong) That was perhaps the downfall for Baldwin, and they exited the diesel marketplace not too long after the last Shark left their factory. The PRR had the largest fleet of Sharks. These engines were terrific drag engines, and spent most of their time in ABA and ABBA configurations hauling long strings of coal out of the eastern coal fields. Some did passenger duty on short PRR branch lines, and only the PRR purchased the gorgeous RF20s for longer passenger only runs.

Raymond Lowey's studio styled the Shark's exterior - not him personally, for he was the 'light your cigar' and 'pour your brandy' boardroom man for his successful industrial design firm. That Lowey is rumored to have signed the original skectches and drawings of his unsung stylists and designers, and that many of these drawings were obviously done in multiple techniques by more than one person, is proof that he may have approved the designs, but didn't actually pen them, even though this engine and many other products were referred to as 'Lowey' designs (Studebakers, appliances, and of course, locomotives and passenger equipment). btw - his studio's first design contract when he was located in France, was for designing French brassieres! The styling similarities between the Sharks and some PRR streamlined steam can be easily seen, and is evidence of Lowey's design contracts with the PRR. At least he can be credited with hiring talented designers. . .

Now I just need to find a way to rationalize how my sizeable Shark roster found its way to a free-lanced bridge route across north GA and southwestern NC ! I'm wide open to someone's creative thoughts on that !
- Bill

[Anonymous]

The old Roco/E R Models sharks are fine locos - I have one as part of an NYC ABA lashup with a pair of Proto 1k C-Liners (apparently the sharks could be ordered with standard MU equipment as an alternative to the pneumatic Baldwin system - information found at http://exotic.railfan.net/baldwinlocos.htm ). They take Kadee #34s as standard though I've modified the rear of mine to take a #5 in order to close-couple it with the C-Liners (the #34s do leave a noticable gap, which looked very odd in an ABA set where the other A and B are closer together). The modification involved a bit of cutting of the rear bodywork at the base of the diaphragm (to allow the #5 draft gear box to fit) and gluing a couple of spare Peco ties to the metal frame (used tham as shims to get the coupler box height correct - they were spot on for height and I had them to hand) before gluing the coupler box into place. The result looks a lot better and is well worth the effort. Hope this is of help!

[jimrice4449]

As a confirmed Shark fan I loaded up on Roco Sharks but found two problems. The first is the Talgo cplr/truck arrangenent between units. On running long trains (40-50 cars) I found that, when the train topped a grade and the slack ran in, there would almost always be a derailment between the units. (We ran MANY miles trying to figure this out)
The other problem (again w/ long trains) was a tendency for the metal tires to slip off of the plastic center on the drive wheels. The first problem was solved by using body mounted drawbars between units and the second by replacing the power trucks w/ Athearn GE 4 wheel power trucks.

[Anonymous]

Couple of questions for the two most recent posts:

- Did any RRs actually order any Sharks with the 'optional' MU equipment, or was it an option that no one ordered? (also, when I wrote 'hydraulic' I meant to write 'pneumatic' - duh) I have never seen any Sharks actually MU'd with other brands, although I have also read that 'standard MU equipment was available as an option'.

- Are the Athearn GE truck sideframes the same wheelbase as the ones on the Roco drives, or did you need to alter them a bit? And, did you replace the entire power trucks with the Athearn ones? Lastly, are the GE sideframes the correct length for Sharks? (btw - I mocked up some Proto 2K Alco FA trucks under the Roco Sharks and they didn't look right to me)

Thanks.
Bill

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if anyone did order them with the standard MU equipment - mine's part of a fictional museum so my justification is that the museum fitted standard MU equipment following a copy of the original plans to allow it to run with other units. I would guess that some roads that ordered Sharks amongst their first diesels might have opted for the Baldwin pneumatic MU system (presumably it wasn't clear at first what the standard MU system would be - over here early DMUs used four or more different MU systems that weren't compatible before one fairly standard system was adopted) but that later orders would have been with the standard MU system to allow them to work with their other locos. This is just a guess though!

[joseph2]

The last two surviving sharks were operated by the Escanaba & Lake Superior,were ex D&H.The owner keeps them in a locked building in Michigan's upper peninsula doesn't show them to anyone. Joe

[ndbprr]

Baldwin engines could only MU with other Baldwin engines. Baldwin bowed out before standradization occurred and were the only ones to use the pneumatic control system to the best of my knowledge.

[jimrice4449]

First things first. Sharks could only MU w/ other Sharks and I think that incompatability extended to other models too...EXCEPT..I've seen a number of pix of SAL Centipedes in frt service MUd (to all appearances) w/ other makes, usually Alco RSs.
On my conversions w/ Athearn trucks...I used the standard Athearn 4 wheels trucks w/ GE side frames. It's been decades since I did this and I don't want to go out to my train bldg to check, but if memory serves, all that's required is to screw some 1/32 brass strips to the Roco frame after soldering in a pin to engage the Athearn truck. You'll also have to modify the U joints but that's no big deal. As for prototypical fidelity....The Athearn trucks were originally designed for EMD F units (W/B 9') All they changed to adapt them to GEs (W/B 9' 4") was add new side frames. The Sharks had trucks w/ a 9' 10" W/B. We all make compromises or else we'd have operating air brakes so it's a question of the degree of deviation one's comfortable with.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all those who answered my queries concerning if AT&SF had sharks, ( repaint job ahead). Also thanks to all for the additional information about these models. I'm learning a lot since joining this forum.
William

[rf16a]

The ER Models Sharks I have came DCC ready, I just plugged in a Digitrax decoder.

The Pennsylvania Railroad had a couple of four axle freight Sharks rebuilt with Alco engines and mu equipment, so those particular sharks could mu with non Baldwins.

[tatans]

Is "Baldwin" synonymous with 'shark' ??? were they the only company that made the shark???

[joseph2]

Baldwin was the only maker of "sharks" .Alco made some diesels that were nick named "alligators' .

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joseph2

Baldwin was the only maker of "sharks" .Alco made soe diseals that were nick named "alligators' .

ALCO also built 3 units for SP that were called "Alco-haulics".

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/locos/hydro/oktoberfest.html

Andre

[Bill H.]

Follow this link for some interesting info of what happened to the last Sharks...

http://yardlimit.railfan.net/baldwindiesels/mign/index.html#history

[nfmisso]

NWSL has axle assemblies (wheel, axle, gear) to fit the Roco (Model Power and E&R) built models.

The Hobbytown of Boston chassis is the superior solution.
http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/K014

[bnonut]

I have had Mantua Sharks and now own ModelPower/Roco. The Mantua's were the only ones to have the correct wheelbase.
I emailed Precision Scale Models and asked them which wheelbase they chose, there answer:

Hi Mark,

Space between the axles is 34.4 mm. We will post photos on the website as soon as they are available.

This sounds great.
As for muing the sharks had pneumatic mu. On the B&O the AS-16 were the only other choice to multiple with the Sharks.
Some railroads modified theirs but the B&O's stayed till trade-in.

[Anonymous]

I do believe that US Steel road EJ&E had a set of ABBA Sharks in their orange and green scheme. check out the Diesel builders books, Baldwin, voulume 1 or 2. I believe that they sold these to the B&O.

[AntonioFP45]

Last I read there are a pair of prototype sharks still in existence. In storage and owned by an industrial company that unfortunately is not granting public access to them.

About a year or so ago one of the guys over on the TRAINS Forum listed the info on the pair.