Baldwin Sharks

[PennsyHoosier]

By the way, the above pic is from a GREAT website with a history of the Baldwin Sharks, as well as instructions for painting D&H Shark. Pretty cool.

http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/BaldwinSharks.html

[PennsyHoosier]

I am going CRAZY waiting for the PCM Sharks. Must have one... Must have two... Must have...

[PennsyHoosier]

Go to http://crestlineprr.com/PhotoGallery.html for some very nice pics of PRR Sharks--and lots of other great pics, too!

[PennsyHoosier]

Gotta love those PRR Sharks!

[tomikawaTT]

Just about the time that UP got its first gas turbine locos, Baldwin-Westinghouse built a 4000-hp gas turbine demonstrator (Blue Goose) which had a rather shark-like front end. The loco was a Bo-Bo-Bo-Bo with the trucks twin-mounted to span bolsters that also supported the draft gear. If memory serves, the pilot was mounted on the front span bolster and swung with it.
MR published a plan for that loco back in the days of my youth. That was the first, and last, that I ever heard of it until I Googled it and found out that Ajin has it scheduled for a limited run.

[rtstasiak]

Here's a little NYC-Baldwin trivia:

NYC purchased at least 2 sets of Baldwin Babyfaces with A-1-A trucks, steam generators, and passenger gearing. The engines were supposedly unreliable and rough riding, earning the pet name "Gravel Gerties" from crews. These units were re-engined with EMD prime movers and, I presume, standard MU in an attempt to cut the Central's losses and get some work out of the units.

Mr. Nowak's NYC Color Pix Volume 2 shows a four unit lashup of an F-2 + Babyface + F-7 + GP-7 pulling a freight in multiple. Lots of theories here--refitted with new engine and MU? Dead trailing unit in transit? NYC did have a program to install regular MU in switchers not so equipped, so why not a Baldwin?

Rich

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Soo Line fan

One last note about the Baldwin Sharks and ELS: Everyone, please do not trespass or harass them about the Sharks. They do not like that. A well-known fact but one, which bears retelling, is years ago the Sharks were parked at the Wells roundhouse for all to see. No security, come and go as you please. On New Years some low-lifes broke into the roundhouse and stole builders plates from some of the other Baldwins and also their service manuals. Signs went up and access was cut off. The Sharks were moved over to the Escanaba car shop and then eventually hidden inside. Hopefully when John is ready, he will show the Sharks, and the rest of his personal collection. Pestering them will not make that day come any sooner.

Jim

It's always a shame that some lowlife(s) has to ruin it for the rest of us. The sharks have always been my favorite of the first generation diesels. As I stated above, I have several of the Mantua diecast metal sharks, 3 with Hobbytown drives.

[Soo Line fan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92

The sharks hiding up in Michigan are the ex-D&H/MGA/NYC RF16s. From what I've heard, they'll never run again--the frames are cracked.

Sad about the frames being cracked. I wonder though, if the frames are cracked why is the industrial owner hanging on to them? It's their property but one would think that they would either donate them, sell them, or restore to running condition.

I think you have been misinformed about the frames, as I have never heard that from any former or current employees or read that in any publications. Also, the Escanaba and Lake Superior is not an industrial RR, It is a short line.

This is a photo of the Sharks before they were moved inside the ELS car shop building. http://user.cybrzn.com/~vindalu/gallery2-els.htm They are definitely still there. The 1205 arrived needing an engine overhaul and never ran. The 1216 was used for a while in ELS revenue and then stored serviceable. John Larkin took over ownership from Castolite in lieu of money owed for storage fees. Here are some more items in storage:
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picMILW187a.jpg
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picMILW51a.jpg

John collects full size locos and passenger cars like we do models. His latest acquisition is the FP-7 600, ex WSOR. I heard they could have purchased 2 used SD 40-2s for what was paid for the F, as it was in outstanding mechanical condition. The 3 ex WICT Fs may be next.
http://www.michiganrailroads.com/MichRRs/Pictures/IndividualPhotos/151-160/Photo152D.htm

Here is the rest of the fleet: http://www.railroadmichigan.com/escanabalakesuperior.html

One last note about the Baldwin Sharks and ELS: Everyone, please do not trespass or harass them about the Sharks. They do not like that. A well-known fact but one, which bears retelling, is years ago the Sharks were parked at the Wells roundhouse for all to see. No security, come and go as you please. On New Years some low-lifes broke into the roundhouse and stole builders plates from some of the other Baldwins and also their service manuals. Signs went up and access was cut off. The Sharks were moved over to the Escanaba car shop and then eventually hidden inside. Hopefully when John is ready, he will show the Sharks, and the rest of his personal collection. Pestering them will not make that day come any sooner.

Jim

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92

The sharks hiding up in Michigan are the ex-D&H/MGA/NYC RF16s. From what I've heard, they'll never run again--the frames are cracked.

Sad about the frames being cracked. I wonder though, if the frames are cracked why is the industrial owner hanging on to them? It's their property but one would think that they would either donate them, sell them, or restore to running condition.

[reale1]

What I'm hoping for is that the new owner of the Proto line will eventually get around to offering Sharks in a variety of appropriate road names. Producing them in the 2000 line would be great, but even a 1000 series model would be OK. Proto's usually faithful detailing, fine paint jobs, and smooth operation would certainly be well received.

[emdgp92]

The sharks hiding up in Michigan are the ex-D&H/MGA/NYC RF16s. From what I've heard, they'll never run again--the frames are cracked.

[Soo Line fan]

Antonio, are you referring to the ex-DH units?

Jim

[AntonioFP45]

Last I read there are a pair of prototype sharks still in existence. In storage and owned by an industrial company that unfortunately is not granting public access to them.

About a year or so ago one of the guys over on the TRAINS Forum listed the info on the pair.

[Anonymous]

I do believe that US Steel road EJ&E had a set of ABBA Sharks in their orange and green scheme. check out the Diesel builders books, Baldwin, voulume 1 or 2. I believe that they sold these to the B&O.

[bnonut]

I have had Mantua Sharks and now own ModelPower/Roco. The Mantua's were the only ones to have the correct wheelbase.
I emailed Precision Scale Models and asked them which wheelbase they chose, there answer:

Hi Mark,

Space between the axles is 34.4 mm. We will post photos on the website as soon as they are available.

This sounds great.
As for muing the sharks had pneumatic mu. On the B&O the AS-16 were the only other choice to multiple with the Sharks.
Some railroads modified theirs but the B&O's stayed till trade-in.

[nfmisso]

NWSL has axle assemblies (wheel, axle, gear) to fit the Roco (Model Power and E&R) built models.

The Hobbytown of Boston chassis is the superior solution.
http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/K014

[Bill H.]

Follow this link for some interesting info of what happened to the last Sharks...

http://yardlimit.railfan.net/baldwindiesels/mign/index.html#history

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joseph2

Baldwin was the only maker of "sharks" .Alco made soe diseals that were nick named "alligators' .

ALCO also built 3 units for SP that were called "Alco-haulics".

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/locos/hydro/oktoberfest.html

Andre

[joseph2]

Baldwin was the only maker of "sharks" .Alco made some diesels that were nick named "alligators' .

[tatans]

Is "Baldwin" synonymous with 'shark' ??? were they the only company that made the shark???

[rf16a]

The ER Models Sharks I have came DCC ready, I just plugged in a Digitrax decoder.

The Pennsylvania Railroad had a couple of four axle freight Sharks rebuilt with Alco engines and mu equipment, so those particular sharks could mu with non Baldwins.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all those who answered my queries concerning if AT&SF had sharks, ( repaint job ahead). Also thanks to all for the additional information about these models. I'm learning a lot since joining this forum.
William

[jimrice4449]

First things first. Sharks could only MU w/ other Sharks and I think that incompatability extended to other models too...EXCEPT..I've seen a number of pix of SAL Centipedes in frt service MUd (to all appearances) w/ other makes, usually Alco RSs.
On my conversions w/ Athearn trucks...I used the standard Athearn 4 wheels trucks w/ GE side frames. It's been decades since I did this and I don't want to go out to my train bldg to check, but if memory serves, all that's required is to screw some 1/32 brass strips to the Roco frame after soldering in a pin to engage the Athearn truck. You'll also have to modify the U joints but that's no big deal. As for prototypical fidelity....The Athearn trucks were originally designed for EMD F units (W/B 9') All they changed to adapt them to GEs (W/B 9' 4") was add new side frames. The Sharks had trucks w/ a 9' 10" W/B. We all make compromises or else we'd have operating air brakes so it's a question of the degree of deviation one's comfortable with.

[ndbprr]

Baldwin engines could only MU with other Baldwin engines. Baldwin bowed out before standradization occurred and were the only ones to use the pneumatic control system to the best of my knowledge.

[joseph2]

The last two surviving sharks were operated by the Escanaba & Lake Superior,were ex D&H.The owner keeps them in a locked building in Michigan's upper peninsula doesn't show them to anyone. Joe

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if anyone did order them with the standard MU equipment - mine's part of a fictional museum so my justification is that the museum fitted standard MU equipment following a copy of the original plans to allow it to run with other units. I would guess that some roads that ordered Sharks amongst their first diesels might have opted for the Baldwin pneumatic MU system (presumably it wasn't clear at first what the standard MU system would be - over here early DMUs used four or more different MU systems that weren't compatible before one fairly standard system was adopted) but that later orders would have been with the standard MU system to allow them to work with their other locos. This is just a guess though!

[Anonymous]

Couple of questions for the two most recent posts:

- Did any RRs actually order any Sharks with the 'optional' MU equipment, or was it an option that no one ordered? (also, when I wrote 'hydraulic' I meant to write 'pneumatic' - duh) I have never seen any Sharks actually MU'd with other brands, although I have also read that 'standard MU equipment was available as an option'.

- Are the Athearn GE truck sideframes the same wheelbase as the ones on the Roco drives, or did you need to alter them a bit? And, did you replace the entire power trucks with the Athearn ones? Lastly, are the GE sideframes the correct length for Sharks? (btw - I mocked up some Proto 2K Alco FA trucks under the Roco Sharks and they didn't look right to me)

Thanks.
Bill

[jimrice4449]

As a confirmed Shark fan I loaded up on Roco Sharks but found two problems. The first is the Talgo cplr/truck arrangenent between units. On running long trains (40-50 cars) I found that, when the train topped a grade and the slack ran in, there would almost always be a derailment between the units. (We ran MANY miles trying to figure this out)
The other problem (again w/ long trains) was a tendency for the metal tires to slip off of the plastic center on the drive wheels. The first problem was solved by using body mounted drawbars between units and the second by replacing the power trucks w/ Athearn GE 4 wheel power trucks.

[Anonymous]

The old Roco/E R Models sharks are fine locos - I have one as part of an NYC ABA lashup with a pair of Proto 1k C-Liners (apparently the sharks could be ordered with standard MU equipment as an alternative to the pneumatic Baldwin system - information found at http://exotic.railfan.net/baldwinlocos.htm ). They take Kadee #34s as standard though I've modified the rear of mine to take a #5 in order to close-couple it with the C-Liners (the #34s do leave a noticable gap, which looked very odd in an ABA set where the other A and B are closer together). The modification involved a bit of cutting of the rear bodywork at the base of the diaphragm (to allow the #5 draft gear box to fit) and gluing a couple of spare Peco ties to the metal frame (used tham as shims to get the coupler box height correct - they were spot on for height and I had them to hand) before gluing the coupler box into place. The result looks a lot better and is well worth the effort. Hope this is of help!