What did you do with your Dream-Plan-Build DVD?

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb

Got it, watched it, kept it, and sent the nine bucks for it. $25 per DVD is awfully steep, considering I don't pay that much for new-release blockbuster movies! Unless the material is a must-have, I doubt I would keep too many of them. They have to bring it down to at least $20, including shipping, to make it viable.

Comparing the price of a niche special interest video to a Hollywood blockbuster video isn't a fair comparison. They're light years apart in terms of potential market volume. When you can sell to millions of consumers, you can get the price per video down much lower -- that's just basic economics. At the volumes model railroad videos sell to (thousands for the wildly successful ones), the Hollywood guys would consider to be a dismal failure.

What's fair is to compare MR's DPB video to a Keller layout video or a Pentrex Train video.

The Keller DVDs sell for $45 list, and the typical Pentrex DVD sells for $30, list. Typical video running time for a Keller or a Pentrex video is 60 minutes.

With that in mind, even a $25 price is great deal, and the $9 price is an absolute steal. [swg]

P.S. If you'll permit me a personal example as well, my Siskiyou Line video series has a typical running time of 80 minutes and a price of $29.95 per DVD -- which is 30% more content than a Keller or a Pentrex video -- all for no more than the cost of the typical Pentrex video.

[Anonymous]

Got it, watched it, kept it, and sent the nine bucks for it. $25 per DVD is awfully steep, considering I don't pay that much for new-release blockbuster movies! Unless the material is a must-have, I doubt I would keep too many of them. They have to bring it down to at least $20, including shipping, to make it viable.

As far as why some people here didn't get the intro DVD yet, there was an email I got shortly before getting the DVD that I recieved it based on my customer preferences. I'm guessing those were from some MR poll I filled out whenever. I seem to remember filling one out a while back, and it had questions about video mags in it.

I think the key to making these things succeed is having lots of modeling techniques demonstrated step by step. Some of us just need to "see" it being done to really "get it", as opposed to those who can read it in a book and crank out beautiful scenery etc.

As far as the marketing technique, they give you the mailer, the return label, and postage paid. If you don't want it, it takes a grand total of maybe three minutes to send it back. Get the burr out of your saddle and lighten up.

[skiloff]

I'm up here, too, and haven't got anything. I've always felt we've been a little stiffed up here anyway with certain offers. I could really get some guys going by suggesting an electronic subscription for the magazine like many newspapers are now doing. That way, everyone gets it the day its published and printing and shipping charges are dramatically decreased (much lower overhead). Plus, if they add little movie clips in, more may be interested in it. Obviously, they'd still need to do a printed version, but oh well. I'll see if this gets some guys going...

[dougfearon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DavidGSmith

I am a subscriber and did not get it yet. Are they sending to Canada? With the exchange I pay a lot for the mag. The subscrption only comes due when the dollars are far apart. Just my luck.

I like David am also in Canada and did not know it existed until reading this forum. Does anyone know if it is coming north of the border? My DVD player needs some new input.[8D]

[dgwinup]

I have to applaud MR for this new direction, and what I consider to be a fair marketing technique.

Joe is right, IMO, that model railroading needs to go for the multi-media approach. Maybe the mainstays of the hobby, 55 yr old men, don't use computers much, but their kids and grandkids do! Big time! These are the people that the hobby should be trying to reach, and in today's world, multi-media is the key to reaching them.

As to the marketing technique, there is one major difference between MR and others that I have received. With MR, you can keep the DVD. No charge, no future editions sent for your approval. You keep it, it's over. You can send it back. Once again, no charge, no future editions sent for your approval. You can pay $9.00 and receive future editions for approval. I think this is a good approach.

Other marketeers don't let you off so easily. Whatever they send you, be it an item of value or an offer to send the item, they want to send you more, "on approval". You have to take an action to PREVENT receiving future offers. If you forget to decline the offer, they send it to you. You are stuck with paying to return it or to pay for keeping it. And as long as you 'forget' to reply, they keep sending you stuff that you didn't order and probably don't want. I dislike this technique immensely. I am aware that unsolicited gifts are just that: gifts. I can keep them without having to pay for them. But read the fine print. Often it says that if you keep it, you are agreeing to accepting more 'offers'. That's when I get on the phone and thank them personally for the 'gift' they sent me and inform them I have no intention of either paying for it or returning it. I never have any more trouble from them. But I still had to take a positive action to prevent further solicitations.

MR's offer is a one-time proposal and if you don't respond, it's over and done with. Yes, they apply a little guilt. "Return it so we can give it to another modeler who may be interested." If you don't return it, you are DEPRIVING another modeler of the chance to get a copy. Tough cookies. I doubt if any subscriber is going to be deprived of getting a DVD just because I kept the one they sent me. I'm sure MR knows the risk that many will not subscribe nor will they return the DVD. And they have built that into their marketing plan.

All in all, it's not a marketing plan that is offensive to me. And the benefits of starting multi-media marketing may mean the difference in this hobby surviving beyond the next 20 years. To my small brain, this is the right way for MR to proceed.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Darrell, doubting any mistakes, but quiet...for now

[jfugate]

The thread of which Highiron speaks can be found at:
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2405

The modelrailroadforums.com site can be hard to navigate at times, so the direct link above should make it easier to find the discussion.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragenrider

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the bonus footage material. [:O] I though that was a great add on and a real help guide for anyone starting the hobby. I particularly like the suggestion of using it for a clinic to introduce people to the hobby.

Over all, I appreciate Kalmbach's efforts to expand their horizons (and ours). But, like the many here, I'm not too sure about the prices for the next editions.

I wonder if the folks from MR are eyeing the poll and watching the numbers. [8)] It's anonymous, so you can vote with no comment. I think the numbers will give a good indication to the overall response to the DVD mailing.

www.modelrailroadforums.com has a thread by myself and others about this disk and some of the material related to the bonus section which as quite good.

I will be looking forward to the next DVD in the series

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Joe, in no way meant as combative but I suggest that one has to step back and assess the hobby's demographics to appreciate whether there is likely to be any dramatic impact from the introduction of mass multimedia material offerings. Our hobby is composed, in the majority, of men over 55 who have been model railroad hobbyist for quite a number of years. Most are quite content and comfortable with the older, more familiar ways of approaching the hobby (i.e printed matter). It is a fact that those over 60 on average don't have computers, are not on-line, and do not rush out to purchase the latest state-of-the-art gizmo (including DVD's and their players) the hobby offers. In the main, computers, DCC, multimedia items such as DVDs are the province of "younger" modelers who are more accustom to today's digital society.

CNJ831

CNJ:

Actually, I think we basically agree. I also see the babyboomers as the last of the "hugeness" to the hobby in terms of head count, but I do see the hobby continuing, albeit smaller, *IF* the hobby media learns to really leverage the internet and digital media.

While we don't need to do anything really to keep the old kodgers in the hobby (maybe the fountain of youth would help ...), the hobby media is falling behind on leveraging the media sources that influence the younger generation -- namely the internet and video.

For the current generation, the printed page is passe'. Newspaper and magazine subscriptions have been dropping in the last decade with the advent of the internet and now DVDs. And it's Kalmbach's move to do *something* to address going beyond the printed page that I applaud. [swg]

[dragenrider]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the bonus footage material. [:O] I though that was a great add on and a real help guide for anyone starting the hobby. I particularly like the suggestion of using it for a clinic to introduce people to the hobby.

Over all, I appreciate Kalmbach's efforts to expand their horizons (and ours). But, like the many here, I'm not too sure about the prices for the next editions.

I wonder if the folks from MR are eyeing the poll and watching the numbers. [8)] It's anonymous, so you can vote with no comment. I think the numbers will give a good indication to the overall response to the DVD mailing.

[Anonymous]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

If this is something MR is sending to subscribers then I've been left out again. Not that that's something new. I've been left off their list for mailings, etc. before. They ARE very good at sending you subscription reminders 18 months in advance though.

Sounds like it might be something worth watching though.

Roger

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

The hobby desperately needs more multimedia content to be produced ... hardcopy magazines just isn't going to cut it any more. I for one, am jumping up and down and saying YES! to this DVD distribution attempt, lame as it may be in some people's eyes.

I expect their efforts will be a success and those who are concerned about the unsolicited nature of the item are fretting about the wrong thing. I firmly believe without a move to multimedia methods of getting out information about the hobby, it's got maybe another 10-20 years left and then it's going to fade into obscurity right along with slot car racing.

Now THERE'S something to fret about. [xx(]

Joe, in no way meant as combative but I suggest that one has to step back and assess the hobby's demographics to appreciate whether there is likely to be any dramatic impact from the introduction of mass multimedia material offerings. Our hobby is composed, in the majority, of men over 55 who have been model railroad hobbyist for quite a number of years. Most are quite content and comfortable with the older, more familiar ways of approaching the hobby (i.e printed matter). It is a fact that those over 60 on average don't have computers, are not on-line, and do not rush out to purchase the latest state-of-the-art gizmo (including DVD's and their players) the hobby offers. In the main, computers, DCC, multimedia items such as DVDs are the province of "younger" modelers who are more accustom to today's digital society.

I definitely agree that efforts such as MR's DVD will succeed at least to a modest degree, particularly among younger hobbyists who have not previously seen the Tracks Ahead series or the even older MR instructional videos. However, I also strongly believe that they are not likely to create any great ground swell for innumerable further DVD offerings in the hobby community. And, since the DVD went only to MR subscribers, it is unlikely to generate any new hobby interest in the general populace. I feel it would have been far better for the hobby, from a recruiting standpoint, to have included the DVD in the newstand copies, in addition to sending it to magazine subscribers.

I will acknowledge that this is only my own opinion but it is based on my serious examination of the hobby's trends and statistics over many years.

CNJ831

[railroadyoshi]

After watching the entire thing, I am DEFINITELY keeping it and paying the nine bucks. Not sure If I want any more though.

[fec153]

Sent it back unseen. No extra $ for the hobby. Haven't added any rolling stock in over 2 years. Kept coin. Giving it to friend whose lost his legs and going blind from diabetes.[sp]
Phil

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tileguy

Joe, sorry if i offended you in any way, And i was not attempting an all out atack on kalmbach but on the marketing technique as a whole.This is the second product i recieved this week with the same marketing strategy.The other was from a book club.
This venue is to give opinions and i simply clearly stated mine regarding this particular avenue as being something that could potentially become rampant throughout the country from many differant types of vendors.
I believe i did my best to put a positive light on the many strengths MR has also.
I dont think i was being heavy handed in giving my opinion ,but in doing so was not intentionally trying to offend anyone's sensibilities either.I'm sorry if you were offended by my commentary.

Tileguy:

Thanks for the concern, but I'm not particulary offended by any of these comments, and we all certainly are entitled to our opinion.

I'm actually more bemused and a bit befuddled as to why suddenly MR has become this cutthroat outfit because they decided to test market this DVD.

The hobby desperately needs more multimedia content to be produced ... hardcopy magazines just isn't going to cut it any more. I for one, am jumping up and down and saying YES! to this DVD distribution attempt, lame as it may be in some people's eyes.

I expect their efforts will be a success and those who are concerned about the unsolicited nature of the item are fretting about the wrong thing. I firmly believe without a move to multimedia methods of getting out information about the hobby, it's got maybe another 10-20 years left and then it's going to fade into obscurity right along with slot car racing.

Now THERE'S something to fret about. [xx(]

[Anonymous]

I sent mine back.. Actually, by law I could have kept the unsolicited merchandise and not sent in the money. I guess MR knows model railroaders are pretty straight people. I don't like this type of marketing. Next time I won't send it back.

[Anonymous]

Received mine today. Installed the exe file. Media player still doesn't recognise it. I'll probably send it back.[xx(]

[JohnT14808]

I'll be paying for the first one. However, the clip quality needs to be improved, syncing the voice up with the video would be nice, and allowing more sweeping and longer shots of the final view of the painting technique, or the "wavey water" technique will be a requirement on the $25 DVDs. If the quality doesn't improve, I'll be passing on the next one.

[AggroJones]

I didn't get nothin'.

[topcopdoc]

I spent an enjoyable couple of hours watching the video and plan to use some of the information in the PDF files as a reference while building my layout. I have seen some of the chapters before but I think the presentation was professional and very well done and I will be looking forward to seeing the next installments. Hats off to Model Railroader.

Doc

[Anonymous]

Joe, sorry if i offended you in any way, And i was not attempting an all out atack on kalmbach but on the marketing technique as a whole.This is the second product i recieved this week with the same marketing strategy.The other was from a book club.
This venue is to give opinions and i simply clearly stated mine regarding this particular avenue as being something that could potentially become rampant throughout the country from many differant types of vendors.
I believe i did my best to put a positive light on the many strengths MR has also.
I dont think i was being heavy handed in giving my opinion ,but in doing so was not intentionally trying to offend anyone's sensibilities either.I'm sorry if you were offended by my commentary.

[Darth Santa Fe]

I played it on my old record player.[:D]

Well, actually, I watched it.[:D]

[DavidGSmith]

I am a subscriber and did not get it yet. Are they sending to Canada? With the exchange I pay a lot for the mag. The subscrption only comes due when the dollars are far apart. Just my luck.

[jfugate]

I guess if MR did this thing regularly then it might be something to get upset about, but as a pure once in a while marketing technique, it should be pretty effective.

I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle as to getting the thing unsolicited. Being affiliated with Model-trains-video.com and their distribution of my Siskiyou Line DVDs has helped me learn the economics of burned DVD production. I suspect MR has maybe 50 cents in materials in the DVD and mailer.

Plus if the video is material that was originally produced and aired in other venues (one's I've never seen, BTW, so I'm thrilled to get the DVD -- and I suspect I'm in the majority), then any additional income generated from further distribution is gravy. The original cost has already been amortized. So enough with the guilt complex already. [8)]

You guys are taking this whole thing way too serious and turning MR into some sort of mean-spirited monster. C'mon, time to lighten up and give them the benefit of the doubt. [swg]

[RMax1]

Personally I don't like getting things in the mail like this. It puts a burden on me as to sending it back. $10 every couple of months is ok but $25 is a different story if I have to sit down and look at it to determine if it is worth while. The video looked very nice and there were some things interesting on it. Unfortunately I saw this same technique used at Boston Logan airport a few years ago. Hi let me give you this, Ok that's nice, how about giving me something in return??? Why, Well I gave you something!!! But I didn't ask you for it????, well???? Ok here's a quarter, hey that's worth a ot more than a quarter!!!, well you shouldn't have given it to me, how bout if I give you this instead??? , well let me look at it??? Nah I like this better!

RMax1

[dieselfan04]

I alreay know most of what they were talking about but I am planning on using it to help promote the hobby. The layout visits were pretty nice.
One thing they could improve on in the future is that annoying segment between each topic. Why can't they just fade from one subject to the next?

[Anonymous]

I watched the entire thing and looked it over very very thoroughly.
Because I do not believe in the marketing technique as I have stated it will not be sent back, However, It is a very nice DVD to entice new modelers to the hobby and there are some very good spots in it that will propel the beginner in the hobby ahead dramatically.
The "first model RR" piece was well done and made the hobby look very do-able rather than some ive seen which only serve to intimidate a potential new entrant into the hobby. Tom Lunds backdrop technique was enjoyable and seeing the F&SM is always a treat.
While some of the material is mundane to even the novice they did try to get a little bit of something for everyone into it which is of course MR's standing Doctrine.

Therfore, My Mind Is Made Up!!!
My final decision is to use it in a clinic at the local community center
(right before christmas about the end of November).
I will then give the DVD to somebody who i know really needs a hobby and i believe can be enticed to try "The Greatest Hobby"
.
Model railroader and thier sponsers may come out of this winners yet and more folks will see it this way. Now, Mr Thompson (if your listening)I still disagree with the marketing ploy and will not return unsolicited materials.
If however you really insist on sending me unsolicited material for free, And it has the same quality of material designed to forward this great hobby of ours, well then I will just have to keep using them to put on local clinics putting Kalmbach, Model Railroader and the other participating sponsers in front of a potentially new generation of customers..............You can keep the coins for the future grandkids though < big grin>

Your call!!
1 other thing as long as I have your ear,
Could you please bring back protective slip covers for mailing? I know you will replace damaged magazines when asked and youve been very good about that ,but isnt it better to not get damaged magazines at all ?
Oh and thank Lou for a great scenery article !!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I haven't gotten one yet! And MR came 2 days ago! Do only select subscribers get it?

If you don't get it(I'm sure you will) I can airlift my copy to you.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

$9 per DVD really isn't bad though;

Subsequent releases are $24.90 with shipping.

[Anonymous]

The Marketing plan while not new is still in its infancy and being tried by several publishing outfits.
Personally, i disagree with recieving any item i did not ask for and guilt tactics (even subtle one) of keeping it and not paying for it.
"because you did not ask for this you could consider it a free gift.If you do return the DVD, we will give another model railroader subscriber the same opportunity"
Subtle guilt.........Cmon Terry and crew, your better than this!!
We are all capable of making decisions based on information provided in the numerous vehicles you have at your disposal as to wether this is something interesting enough to purchase...........(a full page 30 day free trial Ad amongst your numerous pages would have been sufficient)
I have recieved MR for many many years and recently renewed for another 3 years.I own almost every book they have produced (and as a side note will go on record here as saying i am dissapointed in the new 88 page format that leaves less value for more money)
I am not a beginning modeler and while many advanced modelers have turned away from MR, I continue to support them for those strengths they do maintain.
#1 The quality of authers.They continue to keep many of the best writers in the field in thier pages and compensate them for thier efforts.
#2 Timely information on new releases and techniques
#3 Quality of photography and thier willingness to produce with the finest materials and techniques available for a magazine with a comparatively small readership when lined up alongside the giants such as US NEWS, Newsweek and People etc.
#4 Managements willingness to give a guy a chance. Terry thompson has recieved some really tough critisisms yet they have chosen to reserve judgement and give him a chance. MR's had some superb Editors over the years making some very tough shoes to fill , or to put it another way, tough acts to follow.

Now, getting back to this marketing technique.
If you support it, then be prepared for your mailbox to fill up with the same type thing from every book club, Music Service and widget company out there.

While I understand why the marketing technique looks attractive on the surface, the potential for irritating many loyal customers is risky.
Publishers are scrambling to find thier place in the new E world where information is flowing freely.Finding methods to maintain is not enough, all business's must move forward or die a slow death.
I wish MR the best luck in finding ways to accompli***his but I do not believe this is an Avenue that will ultimatly be in the companies best interest.
My Opinion, Worth Price Charged!!!

[Anonymous]

I am still undecided. Its a big bunch of Canned Ham.