Starting Ops on an HO 4X8: WEB CLINIC

[cuyama]

Hi Folks,

There have been a few questions about beginning ops recently and I thought I would post a link from my website that describes one way to operate a "classic" HO 4X8. This is part of one of the clinics I presented at the NMRA '05 Convention. If you have not seen it already, this discussion is here:
http://www.layoutvision.com/id39.html

While the HO 4X8 is probably my least favorite format for a layout … so many people build them and want to try out ops, perhaps this will be helpful.

I would be happy to answer questions if people have them, but I'm not on the forum all day long, so it may be the next evening or morning before I respond -- I'm not ignoring you!

Regards,

Byron

[hminky]

Here is how I optimized the 4x8 in a 10x11 room.



Click on image to enlarge

I have a web article at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/track_plan/



I discuss building and operating my 4x8 at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/

Thank you if you visit
Harold

[cuyama]

Wow, this sure fell of the face of the earth quickly. Just a lot of important surveys going on about "what color is your train room?", I guess.

Perhaps beginning ops is not as interesting a topic for this group as it seemed.

To put this clinic's best foot forward, here's one of the images from the clinic


and the clinic link, again, is:
http://www.layoutvision.com/id39.html

Regards,

Byron

[scubaterry]

I am interested in any info on operations. I have zero expierience in operations and will have my layout to the point that I will be able to do some ops soon. I for one appreciate your time to provide info to us less fortunate. It does strike me as strange how some of the least productive/interesting topics seem to go on forever and the topics with some "meat" seem to never get off the ground. Thanks for the info, maybe it will pick up some speed and we can get some more input.[^]

[hminky]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cuyama

Wow, this sure fell of the face of the earth quickly. Just a lot of important surveys going on about "what color is your train room?", I guess. [:)]

Perhaps you have over estimated this forum and the power of online forums.. Most topics about "nothing" go on forever, seems most "gossipy" topics have a wider range of participants. Most none "gossipy" topics with technical material are extended by people who know the author and are part of an entourage.

I post many modeling articles and find very few participants, I posted a "gossipy" ariticle and got 3 pages worth. Not enough modelers and too many "gossips". I usually post an article hoping to find someone to pickup the ball and extend the idea further.

Ideas like making ponds using Mylar:



Very few people viewed the post, but it is very important if someone's Ebay account is ended. I think that went on for about 40 pages. I do thank the people that view the modeling articles.

Just a thought
Harold

[SpaceMouse]

I seem to have missed this post. I am extremely interested. And I think guys with larger layouts should be interested as well.

I got through the link and I think I kindasorts understand what's going on, but I'm a little fuzzy still on the car cards and waybills. I understand that the car cards mark the movement of products and movement of empty cars over four op sessions.

My problem is understanding how the car cards are developed. I've started Bruce Chubb's book twice and have not gotten past his description of his home layout.

So I have a layout, a couple of industries, and a bunch of cars. What strategy would you use to develop logical car cards for these cars?

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

It does strike me as strange how some of the least productive/interesting topics seem to go on forever and the topics with some "meat" seem to never get off the ground.

That's because you have to "chew" on "meat," whereas the less-deep topics don't require much thought before generating a reply.

[ereimer]

very interesting clinic , thanks for the link

i too would like more info on how to get started with car cards and waybill operation . so many articles in the magazines just seem to skim over this

[hminky]

One car card that disappeared from the original Doug Smith ariticle in the 1950's Model Railroader was the one just listing destination. I have used it and it works well for a small layout. Each car gets a card, on it is listed a destination, then a line of either eastbound or westbound through freight where the cars are taken back to a yard, the next line is another destination. A paper clip is moved down the card as each move is made. An example:

--------------------------------
Boxcar MKT 120202

Feed house
Eastbound freight
Lumber yard
westbound freight
Mine track
East bound freight
etc.
_________________

I have used this and it works well on a small layout. I used it on several small oval layouts. There needs to be a small yard area where the through freights are marshalled and taken out on lap runs. After running as through freights they are broken into locals as despersed.

Just a thought
Harold

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Harold, but I have an ulterior motive. Our club wants to go to a car card system and no one really knows how to do it. So I was planning on a test on my layout.

[howmus]

Thanks for the link! A very interesting clinic. I was going to check it out yesterday and didn't get to it. My layout should be ready to start some op sessions by the first of the year so I am trying to get an idea in my head on how to go about creating waybills, etc. and the best way to operate the whole mess. Thanks for the info.

[cuyama]

Thanks for the comments and questions.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I understand that the car cards mark the movement of products and movement of empty cars over four op sessions.

The one thing that I would add to that is that it'snot strictly four sessions. As the cars move around the layout, there will be occasions, even on a small layout, where they don't move during a particular sesison ... the "Eastbound" left, for example, and the car has to wait for tomorrow's (the next session's) Eastbound. One of the common misconceptions about car-card-and-waybill is that every four sessions the whole situation repeats exactly. In my experience, this never happens, even on a small layout.

One can also add variety by swapping out waybills after the cycles are complete.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
My problem is understanding how the car cards are developed. I've started Bruce Chubb's book twice and have not gotten past his description of his home layout.

So I have a layout, a couple of industries, and a bunch of cars. What strategy would you use to develop logical car cards for these cars?

Chubb's book is excellent, it’s a shame it's out of print. But you don't need all the detail found there to develop car routing. (Tony Koester's Ops book has a "quick start" section and Davis Popp wrote a good quick start article in the Feb. 2005 MR). These and other references are in the handout from my convention clinic

Here's the basic sequence of steps I have used to develop car-cards-and-waybills for layouts of all sizes, from one moving 8-12 cars per session to those moving 400-500 per session.

First step, decide (roughly) how many cars on average you would like to o appear at each industry each session. It doesn't matter for now if the cars arrive empty and leave full or vice-versa. Count interchange, if you have it, as another industry for now. To make it simple, I'll just assume everything is boxcars for now. This yields a list that looks like:
Feedmill 2
Freighthouse 2
Interchange 3
Team track 1

For now, we'll assume that you're using all four cycles of the waybill. I'll talk in a later post about situations where I don't use four cycles, but let's keep it simple for now. The first rough approximation is to multiply all those numbers above times four (for the four cycles), resulting in:
Feedmill 8
Freighthouse 8
Interchange 12
Team track 4

Tweaking these numbers a bit is fine at this point. No matter what you do, there will likely be some variability in how many cars turn up each session except on the very smallest layouts.

Now you can start filling in waybills. You'll need one cycle for each of the movements you counted above. I just use tick marks on a piece of paper to keep track of how many I've written for each industry and interchange as I go along.

But what about movements "off the benchwork" to the east and west, for example? I call these "Long East" and "Long West" destinations, and I think they are best used in between most routings to an on-layout industry to help give a sense that the railroad we see before is just a snapshot of a larger rail system.

<start philosophic dissertation>
Some people use the older concept of routing all cars from one industry on the visible layout to another on the visible layout. I personally find that this limits realism. If the industries are really so close together, wouldn’t the industries just use trucks or wagons? Occasionally there are movements like this on the real railroad, so a few are OK, especially simulating the confiscation of an empty (more on that later).
<end philosophic dissertation>

If we do want to include this idea of connecting off the visible benchwork, we need to alternate each delivery on the visible layout with a movement "some where else". Long East, Long West, to interchange, it doesn't matter too much at this stage. In the next post, I'll give some examples.

regards,

Byron

[cuyama]

So the four routes of an individual waybill might read (just destinations for now)
Cycle 1 To: Team Track
Cycle 2 To: Interchange
Cycle 3 To: Feed Mill
Cycle 4 To: Long East

Now we're treating the Interchange track as a "somewhere else", not an industry. The general pattern is:
On-layout Industry > somewhere else > On-layout Industry (same or different) > somewhere else.

Now "lather, rinse, repeat" until you've filled out enough cycles on enough waybills to match all the destinations you counted in the earlier analysis while interleaving "somewhere else" cycles. At this point, with just the destinations, you can start operating. Some people never add any more info to the waybills and that's fine for a start or for forever.

It can also be a good idea to start with a fraction of the number of cars you will eventually move each session and have a couple of "practice sessions" moving fewer cars and traisn than you expect to in the final session. You'll get a better feeling for how cars move and understand if you need to re-weight the detinations before finishing writing all the waybill cycles.

Hopefully the number and types of cars you have on hand comes out roughly equal to the destinations you've drawn up. If not, tweak it around until things work. The great thing about car-cards-and-waybills is that it's easy to make changes.

Note that the "Cycle" numbers have no meaning on their own. I'm just listing them to help keep things straight. Some people get confused and think every car on the layout has to be on the same "Cycle" number at each session. Not at all … once ops start, they'll all be mixed up -- which is good.

I don't use Set-out / Hold / Pickup boxes that some folks do because I don't want operators to think those kinds of "model railroad thoughts". Instead, waybills are cycled (or not) between sessions. Thus, I decide after each session if a car has been loaded or unloaded and turn (or "cycle") the waybill to its next destination. Or I can decide that the local industry's crew has not finished the task yet, and it is not cycled for the next session. The crew that come to town sees a waybill destined to the location that the car is already sitting and leave it there.

I like to add the information about commodities and originations / destinations to the waybill, because I like the added feeling of connection with the outside world it gives. So we'll assume the above waybill is for a boxcar on a layout based on a small town in Northern California called Smithfield. (Remember, none of this is necessary, ops can work fine with just the destinations!)

Cycle 1
To: Team track, Smithfield, CA
From: Consolidated Manufacturers, Chicago, IL
Contents: Merchandise

Cycle 2
From: Team Track Smithfield
To: SP Interchange for S.F., CA
Contents: Moulding
Smithfield's specialty lumber mill doesn't have a siding of their own, so they ship via the team track

Cycle 3
From: Mid-State Coop, Kansas City, MO
To: Smith & Sons Feed Mill, Smithfield, CA
Contents: Grain

Cycle 4
From: Smithfield, CA
To: Kansas City, MO (Long East)
Contents: Empty

This is just one possible routing. Note that the empty that resulted from the load of merchandise from Chicago being unloaded at the team track is used for an outgoing load from the same track. One can also move the empty to another industry on the visible layout for loading with a waybill cycle, then ship it out from that industry on the next. That routing would look like:
On-line industry (load) > On-line industry (empty) > Long East (Load) > Long West (load)

With this last example, we've also added a movement that does not stop on the layout, but is an overhead move across the layout from one staging area to another. You'll also add these staging-to-staging cycles as need to create overhead traffic, if desired. But that's most typical of a larger layout than our original 4X8 example.

OK, let's see if any of that was clear. I'll make another post tonight to cover a couple of other points and answer any questions.

regards,

Byron

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Thanks Harold, but I have an ulterior motive. Our club wants to go to a car card system and no one really knows how to do it. So I was planning on a test on my layout.

Chip,

I bought the car card/waybill system from the Micro Mark tool catalog. It comes with lots of instruction and even some card card boxes for your layout fascia. I don't have Micro Mark's address with me at the office, but they advertise in every issue of Model Railroader. Check the latest and contact them. The whole system was about $35.00.

Good luck, Chip.

Ed

[Anonymous]

I have a 4 x 8 layout that will have 6 customer's 1 interchange and a team track. There is a diagram of my layout at the web page below . I was wondering i would have 56 movements under what you say. How do you decied what each freight car does. I will be using the microcard system.

[MisterBeasley]

I'd think that a computer program would make a good "scrambler" to provide these cards. It would need an inventory of rolling stock, and some sort of destination information as well. "Long East" and "Long West" seems like a good way to handle off-layout movement designations.

Is there something like this out there?

[SpaceMouse]

Harold,

I didn't mean to offhandedly dismiss what you said about the list and paper clip. The more I think about it the more it seems like a good way to get started.

Byron,

Thanks for doing this clinic. It needs to be done and it is not easy to get through. I went back and re-read Koester's quick start. (Started getting MR in March 2005) I'm faced with a decision. Either I figure out how to translate everything into operations that run only one direction, or I use engines that are out of era. The problem is that although all my old-time engines can make the 3.1 grade of the outer loop with 4 cars, only one can make 3 cars up the 3.7 down grade of the inner loop. The rest only pull up one or themselves. My 1910's Shay and my 1920's 2-8-0 don't have a problem.

So if I can simplify what you are saying, I should start slow. I should pick a few cars and determine movements for them. You it seems, would have me specify what I was carrying, Koester says not to worry about it.

I think part of my problem "getting it" is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a car cards and way bills are. Mixed in is the Switch list.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. For our intents and purposes, the Waybill is the 4-sided "card" that fits inside the pouch of the Car Card. The switch list represents the tasks the train must perform.

Bump

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wiking2

I have a 4 x 8 layout that will have 6 customer's 1 interchange and a team track. There is a diagram of my layout at the web page below . I was wondering i would have 56 movements under what you say. How do you decied what each freight car does. I will be using the microcard system.

I guess you are getting the 56 from counting the number of industries (7), interleaving them with "somewhere else" for another 7 (subtotal 14 so far), then multiplying by 4. This is correct in a sense, but actually it does not equate to the number of waybill cycles since some of your industries will take more than one car at most sessions. But that's not a critical distinction for now. It's actually a little simpler than that. No matter what the car routing, you need to have a way to deliver cars to- and from specific industries and move them from the visible layout to and from "somewhere else".

The question you are asking, I think, is how to assign the work for switching the various industries to trains and or operators. With the layout you're building, you could probably designate one of the sidings as "staging" and operate it much like the example in the web clinic. But because of the different routes and such in your plan, this is not so straightforward.

The challenge of a layout like yours is one of the reasons I would prefer that he commercial publications and track manufacturers would promote more layouts with real operating potential instead of the roundy-roundy-up-and-over schemes. But I think there's still lots you can do to have fun with what you are building.

An interesting solution in your case might be to have a local train that moves around the layout, working the various sidings and spurs. It would also be possible to break this into two trains that work on different shifts, each responsible for a separate segment or for specific sidings. The local builds its own train out of cars sitting in the small yard. And how do the cars get to the yard? A through train that can run multiple laps (something like the example in the clinic). That train picks up blocks of cars headed "somewhere else' from the yard and sets out cars that are destined for locations on the layout.

Basically, I think it's fun to break the movement of cars into two separate functions … Distribution of cars to- and-from industries; and Transportation of cars from the visible layout to the imagined "somewhere else (and vice versa). The challenge on your plan, and others like it, is that it's a little harder to see where the "somewhere else" can be. But just choose a siding and make it the somewhere else that the through train goe to and from.

Hopefully that helps, but ask again if I did not understand.

regards,

Byron

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

I'd think that a computer program would make a good "scrambler" to provide these cards. It would need an inventory of rolling stock, and some sort of destination information as well. "Long East" and "Long West" seems like a good way to handle off-layout movement designations.

Is there something like this out there?

Yes, several. There are a coup;e of handy ones that help automate some of the tasks associated with creating car cards and waybills. The one I use is Shenware's Waybills

But for a smaller layout or if you are just starting out, hand-writing works great and the start-up time is much reduced. The experience of hand-writing also gives you the background to use the Waybills software most effectively.

There are also computer programs that actually create the car and train movement, usually via a computer-generated switchlist. Most are a royal pain to use, IMHO. There are two challenges. One is the amount of set-up work and tuning that is required to get everything to run as planned. The second is that if a car is mis-routed, the software loses it forever until the layout owner manually finds it and corrects the computer.

For newbies to ops, I think the car-cards-and-waybills (CC&WB) offer a good balance of realism and simplicity. If a car is mis-routed with CC&WB, it's self-correcting. The next job through sees that the car is not where the paperwork says it is supposed to be and takes it to the yard, staging, or spots it in the correct location.

And for cars and paperwork that become separated, it's easy to have a simple rule "Take cars with no paperwork to track 1 in the yard" and do the same with paperwork that has become separated from the car. A happy reunion results. CC&WB are always self-correcting. Nice when working with new or casual operators.

regards,

Byron

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Thanks for doing this clinic. It needs to be done and it is not easy to get through. I went back and re-read Koester's quick start. (Started getting MR in March 2005) I'm faced with a decision. Either I figure out how to translate everything into operations that run only one direction, or I use engines that are out of era.

The problem is that although all my old-time engines can make the 3.1 grade of the outer loop with 4 cars, only one can make 3 cars up the 3.7 down grade of the inner loop. The rest only pull up one or themselves. My 1910's Shay and my 1920's 2-8-0 don't have a problem.

Since you are starting out and this is an interim layout, this would be an easy choice to me. Save the old kettles for fun running, photography, etc. For op sessions, use the more-modern stuff that pulls better. I think it will be more fun to run in both directions with the slightly anachronistic engines, but that's just my opinion.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
So if I can simplify what you are saying, I should start slow. I should pick a few cars and determine movements for them. You it seems, would have me specify what I was carrying, Koester says not to worry about it.

I actualy said it was optional. If you want to start with destinations only, great. You can always add more info later if that seems like fun. There's no one way to do this. People get wrapped around the axle looking for the one true path and miss a lot of fun.

And yes, absolutely, start with a smaller number of waybills and try things out. Maybe plan on moving 10-15 cars the first time through. You'll defintiely get the feel for it faster by doing than by reading.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
I think part of my problem "getting it" is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a car cards and way bills are. Mixed in is the Switch list.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. For our intents and purposes, the Waybill is the 4-sided "card" that fits inside the pouch of the Car Card. The switch list represents the tasks the train must perform.

It can be confusing. The car-card-and-waybill represents the real life paper waybill that once traveled with each freight car on the real railroad. These specified where the car was coming from, where it was destined, and what was in it. (Nowadays, this is all on a computer, obviously). Conductors carried the paper waybills on each train, delivering each with the car and picking up waybills for each car they picked up.

In the era you are modeling, the conductor would manually write out a switchlist based on those waybills (one of the reasons cabooses had big desks). A switchlist simply lists every car in the train and tells the crew where to put it. Some people use them on the model as well, manually wirting them up, either out of their heads or based on CC&WB. Computer ops programs generally create switchlists as well.

Most experienced operators, though, sort of create a "virtual" switchlist with the CC&WB in their hands. By putting them in the standing order of the cars in the train, it's easy to see which cars need to go where As you go around the layout doing your work and setting out and picking up cars, you keep re-arranging the stack of CC&WB to match the way the train actually stands.

But neither the waybill nor the switchlist precisely tells the crew where to go and how to have fun once they get there. In the early 1900s, crews only knew based on experience and word-of-mouth. But for most of the 20th century and into the 21st, there are procedures manuals that go by a variety of names on the real railraod. These describe what work each train does.

So in most cases, the CC&WB (or swithclist) only tells you where the individual cars are going, not how you should get them there. That comes from some additional instructions of the procedures manual. But rather than create one large procedures manual, I think it's better on the model to have concise instructions for each operating job that show only what that operator needs to know in the form of instructions for that train or yard job.

I have a few examples of the train instructions and yard instructions we use in conjunction with CC&WB on Rick Fortin's ATSF 4th District layout up on the web:
http://www.layoutvision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/ops_doc_sample.pdf

Unfortunately, Tony Koester only briefly mentions these documents, calling them "procedures directories" on page 71 of Realistic Model Railroad Operation. These instructions are really the missing link to tell people what they need to know.

regards,

Byron

[MisterBeasley]

Before this clinic, I had kind of dismissed my own 5x12 layout as "too small for ops," and I didn't include any staging as such. However, I realized that it might someday become "too small for me," and my track plan did include a couple of sidings right off the main that ran conveniently to the edge of the layout for future expansions.

Now, I'm thinking of adding a temporary staging yard to one of these, which I could easily put up and take down as needed, but which wouldn't take any space when not in use.

Thanks for all the ideas. It's given me a lot to think about.

[Anonymous]

Bryon,

Thank you for the reply. This was my thinking too. I will have 2 through trains, a local that will
handle 5 industries and a yard local taht will switch three customers in side the yard area. The staging track is in the upper left corner of the layout. This way the freight cars have a destination off track. If you click on the web page you can see a diagram of the layout.

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

Before this clinic, I had kind of dismissed my own 5x12 layout as "too small for ops," and I didn't include any staging as such.

It seems to me that almost no layout is too small for operations ... though more track and more industry locations makes for more variety, of course. I operate my own small test section that is 18" X 72" (N scale) occasionally and while there aren't many surprises from session to session, it can be engaging and enjoyable.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley
However, I realized that it might someday become "too small for me," and my track plan did include a couple of sidings right off the main that ran conveniently to the edge of the layout for future expansions.

Now, I'm thinking of adding a temporary staging yard to one of these, which I could easily put up and take down as needed, but which wouldn't take any space when not in use.

That sounds like a good alternative. But as shown in the clinic, you can start operating even without these just to get a feel for things. If you have enough passing tracks, you could park a train on one and call it staging, or even a section of the mainline that you designate as "somewhere else" as I did on the clinic 4X8.

My suggestion would be not to wait. You'll probably enjoy the operations even without the added track and as a bonus it might provide some incentive to get going on the staging.

Have fun!

Byron

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wiking2
This was my thinking too. I will have 2 through trains, a local that will
handle 5 industries and a yard local taht will switch three customers in side the yard area. The staging track is in the upper left corner of the layout. This way the freight cars have a destination off track. If you click on the web page you can see a diagram of the layout.

Sounds like fun! As I mentioned elsewhere, you can always start smaller. I can't tell exactly from the photos that you've posted, but it looks like you have enough track to start with a "mini" session even now. "Operate early, operate often" is my motto ... it offers motivation, a chance to explore operating ideas, a good test of your trackwork and construction ... and it's fun.

Good luck!

Regards,

Byron

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Byron.

I was hoping to pick up some car cards and waybills this weekend but couldn't find any at Timonium. Is there a.pdf somewhere that could be downloaded and printed?

[scubaterry]

Byron - Once again thanks for all of this information. I have read numerous threads on the subject but it soon was way over my head. You have the ability to talk at my level. I have learned a great deal on the CC&WB system just reading this page. Gives me motvation to get working on my system. That is the goal that keeps my pecking away at my layout daily - to get to the operation stage. I also have the micromark system. Can't wait.
Terry

[Anonymous]

I am very early in building & designing my layout but I am very interested in this subject. I bookmarked it so I can come back to it whenever I need to. I Googled "car cars and waybills" and came across several older programs to generate them. One had an index of shippers, many it would seem were "Far West" or "Far East" as it were, off the layout. It seems to me that the better you understood what your industries, on your layout, shipped and received, the better you could create a card system.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Thanks Byron.

I was hoping to pick up some car cards and waybills this weekend but couldn't find any at Timonium. Is there a.pdf somewhere that could be downloaded and printed?

Chip, you can grab them from the SIGOps site:

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/operate.htm

I can't remember but I think they have downloadable pdf files there, if not I think there is an index or link page that leads there. If you have trouble finding them, send me an email, I can send you mine.

Also MR has a couple of Operations PDF's here you can $$ and they are good. I have them.

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I was hoping to pick up some car cards and waybills this weekend but couldn't find any at Timonium. Is there a.pdf somewhere that could be downloaded and printed?

I think the easiest is to buy them from Micromark, especially for hand-writing only a few to get started.
[url]http://www.micromark.com/[/url]

The tricky bit in do-it-yourself printing is setting them up two-sided so they lay out properly when printed (if you want to use 4-cycle waybills). The commercial programs handle this fine.

Wolfgang Dudler has some excel-based car-card-and-waybill forms for download on his website:
[url]http://www.westportterminal.de/operation.html[/url]
These differ slightly from the traditional format.

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

I have learned a great deal on the CC&WB system just reading this page. Gives me motvation to get working on my system. That is the goal that keeps my pecking away at my layout daily - to get to the operation stage. I also have the micromark system. Can't wait.

Great! You know, you can start ops as soon as you have a yard or a couple of sidings and somewhere to go ... so many people can get started before they think the layout is "ready".

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm

I Googled "car cars and waybills" and came across several older programs to generate them. One had an index of shippers, many it would seem were "Far West" or "Far East" as it were, off the layout. It seems to me that the better you understood what your industries, on your layout, shipped and received, the better you could create a card system.

Right, the Shenware Waybills program I mentioned earlier taps into these databases of real-life shippers as well. I like it, because it makes things seem more realistic to me. But as we discussed earlier, if one just uses the destinations, it's much easier to get started without the complexity of figuring out exactly what distant industry is receiving these cars.

For some people, that simplifies things and helps them get started. And getting started is much more important (IMHO) than how you get started.

In a later post (probably tomorrow evening), I'll add a few ideas about communications and control of trains when one is starting ops.

regards,

Byron

[cuyama]

Just a couple more comments regarding starting up operations.

As mentioned in my clinic handout referenced earlier, I think of three elements in an operations plan:
- the Distribution of cars to- and from industries
- the Transportation of cars in trains from the visible layout to "somewhere else"
- and the Communications and Control to make that movement go smoothly

We talked about some ideas for Distribution (Such as Car cards and Waybills) and a bit about Transportation (trains that would work locally or move cars from "here" to "Somewhere else").

Communication is fairly easy on the smaller layout (everyone is probably fairly close together) and of course this is necessary only when there is more than one operator moving trains at once. Communications usually evolve over time. I use some simple terms to define this evolution:

"Holler and Hope" -- Each operator works fairly independently, but lets everyone else know when they are moving, such as: "I'm leaving Los Molinos for Orchard Yard, all clear?" If there is someone in an intervening station, they holler back "Sorry, just let me clear up here in Sambone … just a couple of minutes". This avoids unintended consequences like running into a block being controlled by another cab in DC block control.

"Mother. May I?" -- Someone, often the layout owner, acts as the "flight controller", giving permission to each operator for their various moves. This Dispatcher keeps an overall view of what's going on, either by actually being able to observe it or by keeping track on a sheet of paper, whiteboard, etc. Each crew informally asks the Dispatcher for permission to move.

On a small layout, these means of communication are usually just operators talking with one another. For more interest, placing the Dispatcher in another room and communicating via radio (like the inexpensive FRS "walkie-talkies") can be fun. Another easy remote communication scheme is the intercoms that connect over the household AC wiring. But it's perfectly fine in the beginning to just talk to one another (use your inside voices, please!).

Formal control systems -- These are often variations on real systems used by the railroad such as Track Warrant Control, Direct Train Control, Timetable and Train Order, or Centralized traffic Control. These require some planning and training and are definitely not necessary for starting ops. In fact, I think they can be a hindrance … in my opinion, getting the Distribution and Transportation elements right offers a lot of the fun of operating without a ton of set-up work and training.

In the next post, a few thoughts about organizing the order in which trains run and their interactions.

regards,

Byron