QUOTE: Originally posted by WetumkaFats I don't know if this has already been posted, but what really killed the high speed rail running on the DFW-Houston-Austin (or San Antonio) triangle route was pressure brought by Southwest Airlines. They dominate public transportation on that route and they don't want to lose the revenue that would switch to rail. But, for routes of that length (200 to 300 mi.), high speed rail makes much more sense than air travel, especially when you factor in transportation to and from the airport versus a downtown railroad station and the hassle of security at the airport. I guess that some folks just enjoy being wanded and fondled by security types who can't count past ten with their shoes on. [C):-)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by mark_in_utah Here in Salt Lake we had a raging debate for several years on a Light Rail system. The busses are chronically under utilized, freeways are available, blah, blah, blah. Freeways were swamped during rush hour. Buses were busy during rush hour but mostly vacant the rest of the time. Light rail ridership was estimated, but purposely low-balled because too many cities had been overly optimistic. Even had it on the ballot, which passed by a small margin. Light Rail ridership surpassed all expectations. The cities that fought the hardest to NOT have a terminal were petitioning for new terminals after the first year - and they'd PAY for them!. The original terminals were built under the main funding package. All additional teminals had to be paid for by the individual cities. They're now actively working to expand the system. Built one spur up to the University of Utah, big success. Want to build another spur to the airport, and several more extending the line further south, east, and west. People enjoy riding Light Rail. We have a commuter Rail system going in now, longer haul, faster trains. Hoping it succeeds as well. When things go right, the biggest opponents can become your biggest allies. Mark in Utah
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 Are you still looking to support the proposed rail project? I hope so. Are there any other backers to the plan? QUOTE: Really? Because you know ALL the facts of the proposed rail line? Or simply because you are a rail fan? Just because it is a choo-choo, and you are a fan, that doesn't automatically mean that the proposed plan is a good idea (or a bad one, for that matter). People blindly supporting such projects is just as silly as people blindly bashing them.[:D] Jeff Well Jeff, I guess I am "blindly" supporting the RR idea. If TrackLayer felt strong enough to support the line, I will take at face value his reasons, and support his effort, until shown otherwise. I guess I should have been more fanatical in my post and USED UPPER CASE TO YELL, all kinds of emoticons etc so I would blindly be as silly. [B)] Also as I stated in my first post to the topic, I am personally experiencing a "railroading" of a railroad that the city here has been after from day one, the media, the "tree-hugger" crowd, which if you watched the council meetings would think the same, crying and chanting to remove the rails for a trail, you would also get a different slant on how some people are against rail. To each his own. I'm not agreeing, nor am I disagreeing with Tracklayer's opinion, just based on the fact that I think he's a swell guy. I prefer to not be a lemming. I form my own opinions based on information, not on one person's take on any given subject. Based ONLY on the information you've provided about the problem in your town, I would be inclined to side with you. The railroad brings money to the area. A "trail" would merely spend it. Seems like the choice is obvious.[:D] Jeff
QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 Are you still looking to support the proposed rail project? I hope so. Are there any other backers to the plan? QUOTE: Really? Because you know ALL the facts of the proposed rail line? Or simply because you are a rail fan? Just because it is a choo-choo, and you are a fan, that doesn't automatically mean that the proposed plan is a good idea (or a bad one, for that matter). People blindly supporting such projects is just as silly as people blindly bashing them.[:D] Jeff Well Jeff, I guess I am "blindly" supporting the RR idea. If TrackLayer felt strong enough to support the line, I will take at face value his reasons, and support his effort, until shown otherwise. I guess I should have been more fanatical in my post and USED UPPER CASE TO YELL, all kinds of emoticons etc so I would blindly be as silly. [B)] Also as I stated in my first post to the topic, I am personally experiencing a "railroading" of a railroad that the city here has been after from day one, the media, the "tree-hugger" crowd, which if you watched the council meetings would think the same, crying and chanting to remove the rails for a trail, you would also get a different slant on how some people are against rail.
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 Are you still looking to support the proposed rail project? I hope so. Are there any other backers to the plan?
QUOTE: Really? Because you know ALL the facts of the proposed rail line? Or simply because you are a rail fan? Just because it is a choo-choo, and you are a fan, that doesn't automatically mean that the proposed plan is a good idea (or a bad one, for that matter). People blindly supporting such projects is just as silly as people blindly bashing them.[:D] Jeff
QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman You do not live in a densely populated area of the country, such as the NEC. Rather, you live in an area of a dense population. Granted the possibility that the ridership may not be sufficient to make the system self-reliant, it can be counted on to make the commute more pleasant for everyone by significantly reducing or slowing the increase of traffic on the parallel freeways. The people who can easily afford the big SUV's will still drive them, but they won't be bothered by all those little econo-cars darting in and out because the econocar drivers will find it advantageous to use the train since they avoid the fear of being crushed by the lumbering SUV in an accident.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America" Referring to whom, in this context? Jeff Giant SUV loving morons who would rather sit in traffic at 5mph and slodge $3.25 a gallon gasoline into their 3mpg Hummers? Maybe them?[;)] I split my commute to work between the light rail and driving (I drive when I need to get something at the nearby my work Home Despot on the way home) one thing I've noticed is that I'm far calmer and relaxed when I take the train than when I'm trying to sludge thru the traffic getting to and from work. I havent noticed any issues with "class" as its a very wide mix of people using it across a mixed areas of the city. [^] I had to drive near San Diego for a seminar (no Amtrack nearby), as soon as I hit the Orange Curtain (The OC county line), the freeway stopped, took 30 minutes to go 2 miles, its that way EVERY day apparently. They've tried and tried and tried to get a light rail transit system for years, every time its voted down. Voters even have tried to kill the proposed HST from LA to San Diego, they would rather park thier car on the freeway and take 3 hours to go 10 miles than to get their fat pasty affluent [censored]'s out of their personal lard transporters and even think about trying an alternative. [xx(] My personal opinion, and it goes for LA, OC and the Texas condition as well, is [censored] them! If they dont want light rail, or HST or monorail...then shut the [censored] up at the gas pumps, and shut the [censored] up when your slodging thru the mire of traffic . I swear when I hear people complain about the traffic they always blame the same thing, its always "theirs too many poor people, cant we just get rid of the poor people", I swear i want to ram a large sock full of horse [censored] right down thier throats then beat them to death with the bumpers off thier Ford Excrements! [banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead] [soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox] OK rant over, feel better now....[:p] Thank you for explaining vsmith. I thought I was going to have to walk around the rest of my life thinking of myself as an idiot due to your curse... I do understand where you're coming from, but you have a much better system out there where you are. The light rail system in Houston is still full of bugs and not really fulfilling its promise to the tax payers. I've been living and working in the country for a number of years now, so inner city life has become almost alien to me anymore. What I said in my last major reply was just a repeat of what I've seen and heard in the news, and not so much my own personal opinion. Happy railroading. Tracklayer
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America" Referring to whom, in this context? Jeff Giant SUV loving morons who would rather sit in traffic at 5mph and slodge $3.25 a gallon gasoline into their 3mpg Hummers? Maybe them?[;)] I split my commute to work between the light rail and driving (I drive when I need to get something at the nearby my work Home Despot on the way home) one thing I've noticed is that I'm far calmer and relaxed when I take the train than when I'm trying to sludge thru the traffic getting to and from work. I havent noticed any issues with "class" as its a very wide mix of people using it across a mixed areas of the city. [^] I had to drive near San Diego for a seminar (no Amtrack nearby), as soon as I hit the Orange Curtain (The OC county line), the freeway stopped, took 30 minutes to go 2 miles, its that way EVERY day apparently. They've tried and tried and tried to get a light rail transit system for years, every time its voted down. Voters even have tried to kill the proposed HST from LA to San Diego, they would rather park thier car on the freeway and take 3 hours to go 10 miles than to get their fat pasty affluent [censored]'s out of their personal lard transporters and even think about trying an alternative. [xx(] My personal opinion, and it goes for LA, OC and the Texas condition as well, is [censored] them! If they dont want light rail, or HST or monorail...then shut the [censored] up at the gas pumps, and shut the [censored] up when your slodging thru the mire of traffic . I swear when I hear people complain about the traffic they always blame the same thing, its always "theirs too many poor people, cant we just get rid of the poor people", I swear i want to ram a large sock full of horse [censored] right down thier throats then beat them to death with the bumpers off thier Ford Excrements! [banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead] [soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox] OK rant over, feel better now....[:p]
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America" Referring to whom, in this context? Jeff
QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America"
QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America" Referring to whom, in this context? Jeff Yea, to whom ?. You might want to clarify yourself there brother railroader... Tracklayer The joy of this bumper sticker is that the owner of it can use it to refer to whomever they want. It is also a great way to start conversation, just like you two are asking! For me . . .it refers to those that will not take the time to learn at least a little bit about an issue before deciding to rally, protest, petition etc. often times basing their war cry on incorrect fasts (I remember a bunch of students at my friend's college were set to protest a class they were in and had prepared a petition to be delivered to the department director feeling what was being taught in a class was not what it should have been. Turned out what was being taught in the class followed the course catalog description to the letter - no one bothered to check but instead based their protest on the title of the class). For me it refers to those that are hypecritical (sp?). (I have an aquantance that bashes pickups and SUV as being bad for the environment, but has no problem driving a car that spews a fog from its exhaust equal to an Alco RS-3 even though she can afford to repair it). For me it refers to those parents that never at least look over their children's homework, but will blast the teachers for their child's poor grades. For me it refers to those that refuse to learn at least a little about the world around us and the people that inhabit it. I recall a friend's wife that is a 3rd grade teacher. We were talking about movies and I had mentioned that the last movie I saw was the Pokemon movie with my son. She looked right at me and said "I hate that Pokemon stuff, such a waste of time." I asked if she saw the movie or if she ever watched a single episode of the TV show given that it was very very popular with lots of kids of the age of her students. Her answer? "No and I'm not going to." A blown opportunity to connect with her students and a great example of "don't judge a book by its cover." I can go on and on . . .. but I think you get my drift. As to this thread, I guess it applies to those that bashed Tracklayer but did it through threatening phone calls and abusive statements rather than a civil, sit down talk where there could be dialogue and people can share opinions, ideas and facts. It seems that many decisions of great importance are decided based not on the best set of alternatives, but rather on which side has the biggest and loudest mob with no regard to the facts. OK. Off my soapbox. [soapbox]Let's get on with more important things - like what can we do to get Alco's back on the Utah Belt! [:D][:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly One of my favorite bumper stickers: "Coalition for an Idiot-Free America" Referring to whom, in this context? Jeff Yea, to whom ?. You might want to clarify yourself there brother railroader... Tracklayer
QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Here in Nebraska there is a fight to get light rail between Omaha and Lincoln. The naysayers are saying that there wouldn't be enough riders, but there is a projected "beltway" to go around the city that we supposedly need. If we build the light rail it at least has the chance to recoup costs...the highway can't do that unless they charge tolls or something. Plus, the light rail will put less exhuast in the atmosphere. There was heated discussion about a light rail system being built here in Milwaukee. We already have city buses (with low ridership) that travel virtually ANYWHERE in the city, and other buses that regularly travel between cities. It makes no sense to build a light rail system with limited access points/routes. A waste of taxpayer money for a system that would be under utilized. And due to operating expenses, the money would NEVER be recouped anyway. You're dreaming if you think it ever would. Name ONE city where light rail has been cost-effective. The difference between the beltway and the light rail system is that the beltway would probably get SIGNIFICANT usage. Light rail would end up being a white elephant. Of course many railfans are unable to be objective. They see choo-choo, and automatically think "oh goody". Wake up and smell the coffee.[:D] Jeff Houston also has a light rail system - even though they had more than enough metro buses that were doing the people transport job just fine. The problem was, the upper class that work in down town didn't want to ride common buses with the lower class passengers... Since the line opened a couple of years ago, there have been over 100 vehicle and pedestrian collision incidents, and those that were behind the sytstem being installed admitted that it will take "many, many" years to pay for it, by which time the trains being used now will be outdated and have to be replaced... That's one choo choo line I feel we didn't need. As for the high speed bullet train issue that started this thread. It would have been really neat to have such a transportation system here, but not if it were going to uproot thousands of people from their homes, farms and ranches in the way that those behind it had planned. Even some of those that were against it said if it were put up on an elivated platform that was out of the way and didn't disrupt their lives that they could deal with it crossing their land a whole lot better. The project has since been killed, so no one has to worry about it anymore. Now they have to worry about the great Texas Highway Project that has the federal government behind it that will run from Texarkana to Mexico. It will have four lanes of traffic on each side, rail lines, oil and gas pipe lines and electrical and communications lines running down it, and those behind it aren't taking no for an answer like they have on other issues. I'm afraid this one is going to be a much harder fight to stop than anything ever before!... Tracklayer
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Here in Nebraska there is a fight to get light rail between Omaha and Lincoln. The naysayers are saying that there wouldn't be enough riders, but there is a projected "beltway" to go around the city that we supposedly need. If we build the light rail it at least has the chance to recoup costs...the highway can't do that unless they charge tolls or something. Plus, the light rail will put less exhuast in the atmosphere. There was heated discussion about a light rail system being built here in Milwaukee. We already have city buses (with low ridership) that travel virtually ANYWHERE in the city, and other buses that regularly travel between cities. It makes no sense to build a light rail system with limited access points/routes. A waste of taxpayer money for a system that would be under utilized. And due to operating expenses, the money would NEVER be recouped anyway. You're dreaming if you think it ever would. Name ONE city where light rail has been cost-effective. The difference between the beltway and the light rail system is that the beltway would probably get SIGNIFICANT usage. Light rail would end up being a white elephant. Of course many railfans are unable to be objective. They see choo-choo, and automatically think "oh goody". Wake up and smell the coffee.[:D] Jeff
QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Here in Nebraska there is a fight to get light rail between Omaha and Lincoln. The naysayers are saying that there wouldn't be enough riders, but there is a projected "beltway" to go around the city that we supposedly need. If we build the light rail it at least has the chance to recoup costs...the highway can't do that unless they charge tolls or something. Plus, the light rail will put less exhuast in the atmosphere.
QUOTE: Originally posted by cspmo QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman Isn't it amazing the anti-train crowd can carry so much venom? We have a rail to trail issue in our town, the City, Park District, and newspaper are all anti-rail. The paper gives all the pro press on how great the trail will be but leaves out the crime element (we have the highest per capita muder rate right now, 2-3 shootings/murders per month in a city of 150,000) and how the gangs and dealers, will use the trail to run, cut across for sales etc, the land owners don't want it, but again no press. The past rail company wanted to keep the line, it is still in use, was eveicted, yet the paper smeared it to sound like they up and left, then the new rail provider, who is willing to do what ever the city wants, on their first day had a run a way train, crossed 7 intersections unflagged and unprotected going 30 mph threw very busy streets, luckely no one was hurt, but smashed into 3 train cars and layed the rail on it's side. Guess what, no press at all. I feel for you, if you feel strongly about the servive, I wuld rally and find some local railfan groups to get behind you and present the facts. Most folks look at trains as a hinderance to their getting places, late for work and so on. PRO-RAIL!!! You must live in Peoria.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman Isn't it amazing the anti-train crowd can carry so much venom? We have a rail to trail issue in our town, the City, Park District, and newspaper are all anti-rail. The paper gives all the pro press on how great the trail will be but leaves out the crime element (we have the highest per capita muder rate right now, 2-3 shootings/murders per month in a city of 150,000) and how the gangs and dealers, will use the trail to run, cut across for sales etc, the land owners don't want it, but again no press. The past rail company wanted to keep the line, it is still in use, was eveicted, yet the paper smeared it to sound like they up and left, then the new rail provider, who is willing to do what ever the city wants, on their first day had a run a way train, crossed 7 intersections unflagged and unprotected going 30 mph threw very busy streets, luckely no one was hurt, but smashed into 3 train cars and layed the rail on it's side. Guess what, no press at all. I feel for you, if you feel strongly about the servive, I wuld rally and find some local railfan groups to get behind you and present the facts. Most folks look at trains as a hinderance to their getting places, late for work and so on. PRO-RAIL!!!
QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly As to this thread, I guess it applies to those that bashed Tracklayer but did it through threatening phone calls and abusive statements rather than a civil, sit down talk where there could be dialogue and people can share opinions, ideas and facts. It seems that many decisions of great importance are decided based not on the best set of alternatives, but rather on which side has the biggest and loudest mob with no regard to the facts.
QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly Let's get on with more important things - like what can we do to get Alco's back on the Utah Belt! [:D][:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup I was going to post a comment here, but I've changed my mind. I think I'll just stay quiet. Darrell, really quiet...for now
Have fun with your trains