U.P. disrespecting United States Flag?

[davekelly]

Crandell,

I posted the "Turkish Flag" thing somewhat tongue in cheek. Your point is a good one. I do think that there is some use of the flag that is blantantly used for advertising, but it doesn't seem that the UP has come close to that at all.

Dave

[cspmo]

Hey guys I sorry to bring it up,[:I] I was drunk at the time,not thinking[xx(] so let this topic die. Lessson learn not to post when drunk. For the record ,I also don't have a problem with it .

[Anonymous]

Good! I took one look and thougth "Good Lord here we go again" I fougth this and outsourcing for days with anti gates, now that was work. Just let me say this we should be proud of the UP for being this partriotic, it should be praised by all Americans, not scorned. The it is wrong to use a real flag, but this is a decal. By the way how many advertisements you see around the forth of July use flags? Notice the logo is similiar to the flag.

[wctransfer]

We already had a thread about this! This is getting old quick. You guys cant change any of this, so why post it . Plus this is MODEL RAILROADING!

Alec

[Anonymous]

What could be more American than the Union Pacific classic steamers? I'm glad to see it. (_____@_____) <--------- A BIG fat MOON for all who think otherwise. LOL

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cspmo

Hey guys I sorry to bring it up,[:I] I was drunk at the time,not thinking[xx(] so let this topic die. Lessson learn not to post when drunk. For the record ,I also don't have a problem with it .

LOL! I have been there...at least, I had had a couple of quick drinks that had rushed to my head, and when I posted something, and looked at it the next day, all I could think of was...[:I][V]

Still, there is no harm in the question if it is posted with the intent of getting other points of view. I was just feeling a bit cheesed with the frequency of posts suggesting that Railroad A is better than B. Tongue-in-cheek ribbing is fine, but sometimes these things get carried away.

And Dave, that's okay, I thought that you were asking for clarification and was afraid that I was not making myself clear (that would be MY problem, not yours...[:)])

[Anonymous]

(CSPMO) almost sounds like what the Russia's call their astronaut's. Where you drunk on vodka? Comrade!

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wctransfer

We already had a thread about this! This is getting old quick. You guys cant change any of this, so why post it . Plus this is MODEL RAILROADING!

Alec

We may not be able to change anything, but that doesn't mean that we cannot talk about it. If we don't like something, we can still speak up against it. And this may be model railroading, but doesn't the flag also appear on our models? Could not the models be taken as a way of indirect advertising?

Anyways...

I hold a very high respect for the American flag. I am usually annoyed, if not offended, when someone does something wrong with or to the flag. But I see nothing wrong with this. The Union Pacific Railroad helped to build this nation. It helped to connect both the east and the west of this nation. In a sense, UP deserves to have the flag on their locomotives in my opinion.[:D]

You guys never thought I would talk about UP like this, have you?[:p]

[jnichols]

First it's selling trains on ebay by using a girl posing in her underwear, now this... [zzz]

Someone mentioned poisoning the minds of our youth... Well I'm young, and it's this kind of dribble that poisons minds, not locomotives with the American flag on them... [;)]

Jeff

[Anonymous]

hey speaking about the girl on eBay, what ever happened to Patty the i want to be your tool lady in MR ads in the 70's. I would like to see her laying on an America flag.

[davekelly]

I remember her. Quite a few feathers were ruffled with that one!

[gvdobler]

The UP could never be as disrespectful to the flag as protesters have been. Since the "hippie" days of the 1960's all enforcement of flag respect have gone by the wayside.

[Anonymous]

Well, I don't really know why, but I've liked UP for about as long as I can remember knowing what a locomotive was. Maybe it was the colors, maybe not. I can't put my finger on it. Perhaps it was the red, white and blue shield on the front. I really don't know what it was.

Now we come to this thread about putting an image of the flag on the sides of their locomotives. I don't see this as being any different than me putting a flag decal on the back window of my truck (there's one there, but it was already applied to my shell when I bought it - I would have put one there otherwise). Being that I am proud to be an American, I can honestly say that I look proudly on the flag or images of the flag and I thank God that I was fortunate to have been born in the United States. I respect UP for placing that image on the sides of their locomotives. I like the fact that they remembered the soldiers during the first gulf war and painted a locomotive in camoflauge to commemorate our soldiers.

I believe UP is doing their part to carry on those traditions that they embody as a corporation. I wi***here were more corporations doing this. UP has kept steam alive, remembered our soldiers, supported the United Way, flown the flag and revived some of their history with their new locomotive schemes. I know some of this came from protection of their copyrights and licenses, but I for one am glad to see it.

[Anonymous]

Since 9/11 the flag has been plastered all over every tacky thing you could think of, dragging its meaning through the mud, the flag is nothing more then a corporate symbol now, UP plastering it all over the place is just another step in the process.

[JohnT14808]

I don't think so either.....move on!

[davekelly]

Perhaps there should be some sort of organization or agency that would decide what and who could display the flag. Fill out an application, have the organization/agency determine the merits of the application and either approve or disapprove. Those that get a "yes" would display it, those that don't can't. That way only true patriots would get the priviledge and those undesireables won't. Wait a minute . .. . .that's not very American. Never mind.

[dgwinup]

quote: "or flags left out in the darkness without illumination"

They changed the rules years ago. Illimination is no longer mandatory in certain instances. (Like the one hanging from my front porch. Or my neighbor's from porch.)

Flag etiquette is important, so if you have any questions, stop by your local VFW or American Legion and ask one of the guys there.

Darrell, courteously quiet...for now

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

quote: "or flags left out in the darkness without illumination"

They changed the rules years ago. Illimination is no longer mandatory in certain instances. (Like the one hanging from my front porch. Or my neighbor's from porch.)

Flag etiquette is important, so if you have any questions, stop by your local VFW or American Legion and ask one of the guys there.

Darrell, courteously quiet...for now

The flag should be raised briskly and lowered slowly and ceremoniously. Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunset. It should be illuminated if displayed at night.The flag of the United States of America is saluted as it is hoisted and lowered. The salute is held until the flag is unsnapped from the halyard or through the last note of music, whichever is the longest.

The above quote is directly from the USFLAG.ORG website. If we fly a flag on any DOD installation, it is mandatory to have it illuminated. Aside from all that it is a matter of simple respect. BTW, who are "they" that changed the rules?[:)] The below is directly from the American Legion site. I would think those folks know what's going on!

Q: Is it proper to fly the flag of the United States at night?

A: The Flag Code states it is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flag staffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. The American Legion interprets " proper illumination" as a light specifically placed to illuminate the flag (preferred) or having a light source sufficient to illuminate the flag so it is recognizable as such by the casual observer.

[Anonymous]

I think the Flag looks very stupid. I like the word UNION PACIFIC on the side of a Locomotive much better. Allan.

[wctransfer]

I agree Allan.

TrainFreak,

You know in your mind that this had NOTHING to do with models, and yes they are on models, but give me a post of someone specificaly saying" I like the KATO AC44's with the flags" or anything else model wise that talks bout the flag.

Alec [xx(]

[Anonymous]

So... if some are not to keen on how the flag is displayed (I respect and feel it should be properly cared for, I have seen some pretty tattered flags flapping in the wind) what are some of you going to do when it comes to weathering? Work around it and not dirty the flag? What about if you have a flag pole and flag blowing on your minature layout and you leave the room? Do you leave a pen light shining on it? Or do you take it down?

Just curious...

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is the Union Pacific has alot more money than any of you idiots bashing flag display. They can display it however they want. I love the flag. It's used in advertisement everyday. That's called free enterprise. I think yall need to cram your flag bashing attitudes as far up whatever orfice you choose, that you can. If this were a conversation about any other flag in the world, there wouldn't be the disrespect shown to that flag that's been shown to ours here. To hell with all of you who think like that. Bully for all of you who support it.

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

What about if you have a flag pole and flag blowing on your minature layout and you leave the room? Do you leave a pen light shining on it? Or do you take it down?

Just curious...

On our railroad we call it an eclipse. Get lots of them in this part of the country and coincidently they correspond to when I leave the room. Sometimes they seem to last quite a long time - the current one, about three days.

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[rexhea]

It's not about the right to display the flag the way you want, but how you respect what the flag represents. To display our flag in ways other than what was intended is to disrespect our country. Something the newer generations have a hard time understanding. Yes, UP is advertising... they are proudly advertising the United States of America. At least, it's not on the butt of some punk's tattered jeans or on his boxer shorts.

REX

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wctransfer

I agree Allan.

TrainFreak,

You know in your mind that this had NOTHING to do with models, and yes they are on models, but give me a post of someone specificaly saying" I like the KATO AC44's with the flags" or anything else model wise that talks bout the flag.

Alec [xx(]

Alec...if it was not in my mind, why would I even bring it up. Don't even tell me what's in my mind or not. It doesn't belong to you.[:p]

[Darth Santa Fe]

I don't think that UP is disrespecting the flag by painting it on the sides of their engines. Now if they painted it with the blue area and stars on the right side...THAT, would be disrespecting the flag. When the flag is being displayed so only one side can be seen, you must always have the stars in the blue area on the upper-left side.

[Anonymous]

Just a reminder this is a decal, repeat a decal. A real flag would be against the code, but not illeagle.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

quote: "or flags left out in the darkness without illumination"

They changed the rules years ago. Illimination is no longer mandatory in certain instances. (Like the one hanging from my front porch. Or my neighbor's from porch.)

Flag etiquette is important, so if you have any questions, stop by your local VFW or American Legion and ask one of the guys there.

Darrell, courteously quiet...for now

I use to work at a place where the flag had to be Illuminated at night - I should know because I had to change the bulbs when they burned out. I also had to run out and take it down if the weather got bad. If the flag became frayed or torn, it was taken down, folded into a triangle and sent off for proper disposal and a new one took it's place. It was never allowed to touch the ground either, and was always given the utmost respect...

I won't ever forget September 11th 2001 when I had to go out and bring it down to half staff shortly after the terrorist attacks. As I started lowering it, my emotions got the best of me, and I fell to my knees and held onto the ropes as I cried uncontrollably. Someone ran over to me and helped me up. I finished tying it off, then turned and looked back at it. My legs were so weak I could hardly walk. I can't put into words what I felt at that moment, but there are those of you out there that know exactly what I'm trying to say.
That flag represents to me every soldier and citizen that's ever died for the sake of this great country and all that it is.

Tracklayer

[Anonymous]

Proud to be an American!

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe

I don't think that UP is disrespecting the flag by painting it on the sides of their engines. Now if they painted it with the blue area and stars on the right side...THAT, would be disrespecting the flag. When the flag is being displayed so only one side can be seen, you must always have the stars in the blue area on the upper-left side.

Actually, that is not always the case. If you look at the troops that wear the American Flag on their shoulders, the blue field with the stars is on the right when worn on the lright sleeve. The rationale for that is that it represents what the flag would look like if carried forward into combat ie: flowing behind the staff. To wear it the other way would make it look like the unit was retreating. I'm not sure if this is also the case when the flag is painted on vehicles, but I believe that is the case on Air Force One also.