Lenz or Digitrax: A 2 brand question

[simon1966]

Yoshi

I said I would get back to you with details of my Zephyr repair. I shipped it last week on Friday. It was delivered on Monday and today I called them and it has been repaired and is being shipped today via UPS. When I called I was immidiately connected to the repair department and was not on hold at all. Total cost of the repair including the return shipping is $35.00. I think this is excellent service and to get it back a week after it was shipped is very good.

[keystonecrossings]

Depends on your layout size, for one. I'd also consider what other layouts use near you, if you plan to get into round-robin op sessions.

I use Digitrax. That's also what's common in the area.

I know a guy who outgrew Lenz and went to Wangrow. Wangrow closed (death of owner). This guy moved to Digitrax. Very happy.

[NZRMac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

BTW, would all Lenz systems come speaking german, because i am not fluent in German

Got my Lenz from Tony's Train Exchange, it speaks da english k?

Ken.

[jnichols]

For the money there is nothing currently on the market that will touch a Zephyr IMHO (as long as the 10 locomotive slot limit doesn't affect you). Remember this is ten locomotive slots and throttles at the same time, and a slot can be multiple locomotives in an MU situation, so chances are unless you are thinking of starting a club, you are ok.

A Zephyr is a Super Chief for all intents and purposes (less the 120 slot limit of course), and shares the same architecture and communications platform. In fact, a Zephyr can be used as a throttle on another Digitrax system (I'm not sure why you would want to do this, but it can be done). Digitrax offers a huge array of products, from decoders to block detection and signalling and these are all backwards compatible with virtually anything the've built. For $150 (the typical street price for a Zephyr), you can't go wrong.

Before deciding however, I would be sure to operate both systems and see which one you prefer first hand. You may like the Lenz throttle better, or some other feature may spark your interest. I also agree with the people who argue to go with a well supported system in your area, from the hobby shops to your friends it's always better to have someone close by for help and guidance.

Good luck!

[rrinker]

That's fine as long as all the facts are straight. I haven't done an item by item count, but I'd bet there are MORE accessories for Loconet than Xpressnet. And you sort of imply Xpressnet is not proprietary - to date EVERY brand's throttle bus is proprietary. Lenz may make devices for other manufacturers like Roco and Atlas and Bachmann, but it's still proprietary. Likewise Uhlenbrock might use Loconet, but it's still proprietary. You can;t use Lenz throttles on an NCE system, you can't use NCE throttles on an Easy-DCC system, and you can't use Easy-DCC throttles on Digitrax.

--Randy

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

Texas Zephyr, that was the most useful response yet!
Thank you sooooo much!!!!!
I think i may be able to make my decision off of your post!
Im going to put it in my favorites and print it out!

In all my responses, I always try to answer the exact question the person has asked to the best of my knowledge and ablity. Only then will I add other comments or re-directing thoughts if I think they won't cause confusion. If one starts throwing out differing ideas or opinions before the basic question is answered it can just be frustrating. There have been a few threads I followed and even though there were 20 or so responses, no one had directly answered the person's original question. I think that is just human nature to want to state ones own opinions and mold others into our way of thinking [;)]. I try very hard not to do that because my opinions are very strong.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

BTW, would all Lenz systems come speaking german, because i am not fluent in German

I don't think so. A bunch of us went together and purchased ours in bulk direct from the factory through our LHS. The ones that come through normal channels to the U.S. are probably set to English.

My real point was that other than that snafu and trying to use a utility throttle to program with it wasn't hard to use but the Zephyr has been easier.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker
Lenz has a radio option.

The Lenz radio option is very interesting and people either love it or hate it. Basically it interfaces with any standard wireless phone. The telephone key pad becomes the control buttons. I have mixed feelings about it. It is of course the cheapest wireless available, but one must remember what the buttons mean and how to shift their function. My memory is already operating over capacity, so I try to avoid memory puzzels. I think a major satisfaction factor depends more upon which phone is selected rather than the interface itself. One fellow at the club has a phone that beeps every time he presses a button. BEEP ... beep BEEP BEEP ... beep beep beep ... BEEP. Gets annoying real quick.

May people worry about the telephone wireless frequencies interfering with other wireless things like the CVP throttle system, air conditioning control, and other telephones used in the area. We have had a few strange things happen but none can unequiviquibly be traced to the radio spectrum.

[cjcrescent]

Randy;
Now I understand what you were saying. I musta read it wrong. I thought you said there were NO radio options for Digitrax, now I see. You're just saying that Keith G won't make a radio option adaptable to Loconet because he won't buy the licsence.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

QUOTE: The numbe rof THROTTLE choices might be limited (since for whatever crazy reason Keith G at CVP REFUSES to license Loconet and build radio throttle for it, even though it's a nominal fee and they have a huge chunk of the market.

Randy;

I don't understand. Digitrax has had a Radio version available for the DT throttles for quite a while, (I don't know if there is one for the UT Throttles or not), as well as infared. These all work on loconet quite well. There are several channels available on this. The only drawback is you have to plug in to accquire a loco.

Lenz has a radio option. So do the other systems that CVP makes a radio unit for. That doesn't preclude CVP from making an alternate radio system. Bu what ne company won;t do, others will - there's a DIY Loconet interface board that has an IR remote capability using ordinary TV remotes, and it allows selecting a new address while wireless. It's not a commercial product, and probably won't be, but just another example of the DIY working going on based around Loconet - see the Yahoo group Loconet Hackers for more.

--Randy

[railroadyoshi]

Randy, thanks so much for a bit more of the techie side

[cjcrescent]

QUOTE: The numbe rof THROTTLE choices might be limited (since for whatever crazy reason Keith G at CVP REFUSES to license Loconet and build radio throttle for it, even though it's a nominal fee and they have a huge chunk of the market.

Randy;

I don't understand. Digitrax has had a Radio version available for the DT throttles for quite a while, (I don't know if there is one for the UT Throttles or not), as well as infared. These all work on loconet quite well. There are several channels available on this. The only drawback is you have to plug in to accquire a loco.

[rrinker]

The numbe rof THROTTLE choices might be limited (since for whatever crazy reason Keith G at CVP REFUSES to license Loconet and build radio throttle for it, even though it's a nominal fee and they have a huge chunk of the market. Oh well, his loss) but the line of accessories for Loconet pretty much exceed ANY other system. Even the throttle argument is somewhat flawed since there ARE non-Digitrax Loconet throttles available. EVERY other system use some variation of a serial port system - communications are limited to master-slave. Loconet works like ethernet, only slower (more wiring freedom) and has full peer to peer capabilities - which in part is why an old Digitrax booster that was produced before 4-digit addressing can still be used in a modern Digitrax system. This is how the signalling and detection works - the command station knows nothing about how to operate signals, and doesn't have to. The DT400 throttle supports playable whistle with a pressure sensitive F2 key - again the command station doesn't need to know anything about this, it merely passes the packets on without processing, the peer element of the throttle handles generation of the proper command. Add a DT400 throttle to a DB150 command station - you have playable whistle. Add a DT400 throttle to a Zephyr - you have playable whistle.
Loconet, and the availability of add-on components, both commercial and DIY, is why I went with Digitrax, not market share. And then there's Uhlenbrock, they talk to both, Loconet and Xpressnet. Conceivably, using Uhlenbrock components in your system would allow Lenz throttles to work with Digitrax and vice-versa - MAYBE.

--Randy

[railroadyoshi]

BTW, would all Lenz systems come speaking german, because i am not fluent in German

[railroadyoshi]

Texas Zephyr, that was the most useful response yet!
Thank you sooooo much!!!!!
I think i may be able to make my decision off of your post!
Im going to put it in my favorites and print it out!

[Texas Zepher]

I own both a Digitrax Zephyr and a Lenz. Even though I have purchased all the gizmos to expand the Zephyr, I still consider the Lenz to be my primary system.

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi
1. Versatility. I want it to be as appropriate for a 4x8 as it is for a larger 12x20 layout.

Either system is totally expandable.

QUOTE:
2. Affordability. I do not want to spend a lot. ..but if there is a significant difference in the base price it will be a factor.

If you want to piece the system together through time it is really hard to beat the Digitrax Zephyr. If you want many of the features at once it is hard to beat the Lenz.

QUOTE:
3.Simplicity. I am not interested in reading long manuals. I know that is a requirement, but the UI is important.

I have only opened my Zephyr manual once. Unfortunately my Lenz came speaking German so I had to use the manual to figure out how to get it speaking English. Then I had to use the manual a lot to program with the LH-90 throttle. When I got smart and started using the LH100 throttle, this was not as big an issue. I really like the on-panel display of the Zephyr. (Actually I think the Easy DCC has the best UI).

QUOTE:
4. Sound, something im pondering over. Perhaps I will equip some of my locomotives with simple sound, though that is going to be limited.

Not an issue with either system and current sound systems. I use both systems for locos equiped with QSI, Soundtraxx, and Pheonix sound. Can't speak to the new sound units coming out. Looks like they will need many more function keys.

QUOTE:
5. My locomotive fleet at the moment is about 7 locos, and I dont plan to go much over double that in the near future, that being the next 5 years or so.

Both can do 4 digit addressing (9999 locos) so the number-at-one-time is more important. I believe the Digitrax Zephyr can only keep 10 addresses in the round robin list at once (Once again I've never actually read the manual but have never needed more than it could do). Power would be the second concern, but either unit can either be extended or have a larger power supply added.

QUOTE:
6. i would like to be able to use the computer to program CV's

Either system has a computer interface module that you can purchase, the various free software I've tried works with either.

QUOTE:
7. I will only be using a few throttles, i.e.3

Either system, is easily expandible, the Zepher itself will do three using what they call the jummper throttles. BUT this is why I eventually choose Lenz as my primary system. It uses the Express Net bus, so I can use the Lenz, Atlas, CVP, etc. throttles. I love the CVP wireless system. Digitrax uses their propietary LocoNet so the number and type of throttles (and other accessories) is limited. I also did not like the Digitrax wireless. This is sort of like the Beta vs VHS. I believe the LocoNet is a better technology but unless more people buy into it there will only be one vendor. I did think I saw a news brief somewhere that least one other company has licensed LocoNet so perhaps there will be some other vendor throttles in the near future.

[railroadyoshi]

Thank you everybody, great points! From what I have heard, their is a lot more of Digitrax going around and less of Lenz. That signals me to think that digitrax is much more popular, as I imagined, and therefore might be a good idea to go with them due to the ability to run with other people. I should probably check with the NMRA HUB Div to see what they use to be interchangeable once i finally get up from this chair and join!

[Anonymous]

I have to agree 100%. With as much as I've seen out there on Digitrax, I think they have the market. I'm stayin with um.

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

I have had my "Super Chief" for going on four years now. About six months ago I got lazy rewiring the booster after doing some benchwork and I wired the booster up wrong and fried it. I emailed the Digitrax tech guys and they told me to do a few things to verify the problem. Yep fried (do to my own stupidity). I mailed it in and the turned it around repaired in less then two weeks and I was NOT CHARGED a nickel even though it was out of warrenty and I fried it. I love the system and the one time I needed the repair service from Digitrax they did good!

From what I have read and heard of the Zephyr system I don't think you can go wrong and you will be very happy with its expandibility as your layout expands. An entry price of $150.00 isn't bad either. I can't comment on any other system as I have always used Digitrax.
Terry

[scubaterry]

I have had my "Super Chief" for going on four years now. About six months ago I got lazy rewiring the booster after doing some benchwork and I wired the booster up wrong and fried it. I emailed the Digitrax tech guys and they told me to do a few things to verify the problem. Yep fried (do to my own stupidity). I mailed it in and the turned it around repaired in less then two weeks and I was NOT CHARGED a nickel even though it was out of warrenty and I fried it. I love the system and the one time I needed the repair service from Digitrax they did good!

From what I have read and heard of the Zephyr system I don't think you can go wrong and you will be very happy with its expandibility as your layout expands. An entry price of $150.00 isn't bad either. I can't comment on any other system as I have always used Digitrax.
Terry

[cpeterson]

I'd like to throw my hat in the ring for digitrax. Can't say that I have used much from lenz. I have used their decoders in some of my smaller N scale engines but overall I primarily use Digitrax. If you model in Nscale, many locomotives will require the small decoders that only lenz makes...however, they are not as well shielded, etc. As far as on the layout, I've had my system for almost 5 years now and have had no problems with the decoders, boosters, throttles, etc. The only problem I have had with digitrax is that they seem so popular that many times getting decoders off the shelf becomes a problem. I have used Tonys in the past but I'm a firm believer in trying to use locally if you can, to help keep the local guys open. Papa Bens in Houston seems to keep a good stock up, but if you have an urgent need from digitrax, you may have to flex a little of your patience.....

[rrinker]

And Digitrax is in Norcross, Georgia, so it's not like they have to be shipped 3000 miles away for service. I haven't had any problems with my Zephyr or DT400 so I have no idea how good their service is, but the general response is that they are very good at getting things fixed if they need it. The few complaints I've seen here and on the Digitrax Yahoo list are people who emailed support rather than called, and I guarantee that without a careful choice of message subject and content, an unsolicited email is more likely than not to get canned by a spam filter. Just another part of the internet world. I get enough junk that my filter catches, and I'm not a public company. Heck I even won Tony's $5 off one day and THAT email got killed by my filter, all because of the way they word it. The moral is, if you want to be SURE they know about your problem (anybody, not just Digitrax), CALL FIRST. If they open a dialog via email, then your replies will get to the person in most cases. But unsolicited mail mentioning products, fixes, etc. will easily trigger spam filters.

--Randy

[railroadyoshi]

Adelie, very good point

[Adelie]

I used to work about 5 miles from a company that made computer motherboards. Keep in mind, they were actually made in Taiwan. I did have cause to use their service department, generally by phone. I even drove down there once to exchange something. Even then, it took me a day or two to get to them. At best, it was marginally better than shipping it back to them. The phone service was, of course, no different.

In the event they are actually going to service the unit (and not just swap your bad unit for a good one on their shelf), it goes into the same queue for the technician whether you are 20 minutes away and offer to wait or it comes in via UPS or FedEx.

The moral of the story is not to worry about the physical location of the company, as long as they can get you what you need quickly by shipping. We are not talking about a dialysis machine or pacemaker. Digitrax, Lenz, NCE are all going to stand behind their products.

[simon1966]

Hi Yoshi!

I am in the process of testing Digitrax service! I have had a Zephyr for almost 2 years and it just developed a fault. The brake function quit working. I contacted Digitrax via e-mail and got a response in a few hours the same day. I called them and discussed the problem and the upshot is that I sent it back for repair yesterday. I have been really happy with my Digitrax system and have added quite a bit to it including 2 hand held throttles, IR wireless, PC Interface with Decoderpro software and a 2nd booster. I just converted the booster from slave to master mode, so I can run my layout with the Zeohyr off to repair. I will let you know how the repair works out if you like. Personally, I would not hesitate to go Digitrax.

[cjcrescent]

Yoshi;
What I would look at between all systems, (and I wouldn't worry about service as all companies are very good at servicing their product), is which sytem is used by the majority of the modelers in your area. Be it Digitrax, NCE, Wangrow, Lenz etc. I tell this to everyone asking advice on DCC. By using what is the most used in the area you have a built in "database" for troubleshooting, problem solving, and just general all around help on your system if there are problems.

[railroadyoshi]

Dave, thats the gut feeling I had, that I shouldnt worry about service. Thanks

[railroadyoshi]

thanks Ken
Shay, if I need service, which from the beginning I kinda doubted, the company that would be servicing is only 20 minutes away, a slight advantage there.

[Anonymous]

My layout is 9 x 9. I will run a max of four locos. I can see ALL of my layout from one position. I have only 15 turnouts. Since I live in Georgia, DIgitrax is right up the road. Yall can preach about that German stufff all you want. I like my Zephyr. There's not another starter set out yet that will do everything the Zephyr can. At 149, you can't beat it.

[NZRMac]

Haven't needed any service so far!! I have Set 100 and LH90 cab which is a 5 amp system. The LH90 is a knob throttle and the 100 is pushbutton which is easier to programme with. All the functions buttons are avaliable on the 100. the 90 has 8 functions, plenty for sound loco's.

I accidentily ran a loco from the main to the programme track, but a switch off and reset fixed it.

EDIT awesome system, walk around cabs, plus a cheap cordless option.[:D][:D]

Ken.